Varanasi Explodes

Ref Mantolives #418

[Surely you don`t want us to hold Adolf Hitler or Gandhi or Slobodan Milosovec or anyone else to 7th century standards?]

Yasser, dear boy, if you held Adolf Hitler to 7th century standards, he would come out as a paragon of virtue when compared to The Founder of Islam and His Companions.

Slobodan Milosevic would be rightly applauded (and in fact IS applauded in Serbia) for paying the Bosnian Muslims in the same coin which was used to convert them to Islam in the first place.

Mahatma Gandhi would come out as a saint no matter which century`s standards you apply.

harimau, you are suggesting actions out of law. there is no way to ask questions about aurangzebs times etc., we have a constitution, and in that we have agreed to live by the rule of law. so, its fine to ask for demolition of babri masjid, even by legislation and take it to the voters. OTOH, sharia civic code and hindu joint famliy code is unconstitutional. thankfully the hindu code has been ammended several times to make it real for women over the years.

so, its fine to go to the voter and ask for abolition of gyan vapi mosque, and that is prerogative of a political platform. to me, its a bad platform. i would however support the common civic code platform. its a shame that BJP did not push for it when in government. IMO its like the rowe-v -wade..if its overturned, the republicans lose all steam.

bjp will do well in elections if pick up UCC and ablolition of article 370, but drop the ram-janmabhomi, espeially in the view of all the terrorist attacks.

Re: # 439
jang:

`` i would however support the common civic code platform. its a shame that BJP did not push for it when in government.``

remember the bjp was in a coalition with telugu desam, samata party. bjp is the only party which believes in UCC, no one else. their reason for not implementing was the coalition partners didn`t want it.

I have seen another prophet. Died in Jail for blasphemy. Had the same charisma, gait, personality, as we read Muhammad did. Had the same ardent followers, but times have changed. Revelations still come, but stifled. That`s what I think.

#434 by Raw_Dust

This was indeed an achievement much in line of Geghis Khan or perhaps Hitler

How many people are ready to die today for Genghis Khan or Hitler?

The extent of Muhammad`s influence is enormous. He was no ordinary man. What we need to do is try to figure this guy Muhammad out ... I mean he was really awesome.

Re: # 436

``How many people are ready to die today for Genghis Khan or Hitler? ``

people will die for mohd. because they believe that he was allahs messenger. and what he said was what allah wants them to do. once they realise that there is no allah or mohd. just fooled them about gabriel and the verses, he will be nothing more than hitler or genghis khan.

#433 by Ramanujan

Hey. Read my post. All his marriages were to forge political alliances including Aisha

Muhammad did approach Abu Bakr for Aisha`s hand in marriage. That was when she was Six. That was the time when the odds were high against Muhammad and he needed Abu Bakr and his clan`s full support. Abu Bakr was not Banu Hashim remember? He was Bani Taim. Abu Bakr was hesitant at first but he agreed, and the bond made. The marriage was not consummated right then but when Aisha came of age. It was consummated somewhere between age 9-12. Now that`s a question. Is a girl between 9-12 of age? I don`t know. Never tried one.

zeemax:
thats what i was saying. Militarism and expansionism in the cause of Allah and to save infidels from Hellfire (eternal damnation) by converting them. This is what Mohammad`s potent message to export tribal values of mecca and inflict them on cosmopolitan empires around. The tribal wrath was carved and directed at the Other to attain material as well as Heavenly benefits. Temporal and Eternal mixed in one headspinning cocktail. This was indeed an achievement much in line of Geghis Khan or perhaps Hitler (who pulled it off in mere 7 years). So ok, i`d say he was smart in that sense. :-)

(as for me, i am a borderline pacifist and a very ordinary human being so obviously there can be no comparison between me and Mohammad :-) .)

#427 by zeemax


[* pedophile* - No. All his marriages were to forge political alliances including Aisha. There is no evidence of any other minor girl attracting his attention during his lifetime. ]

Actually that`s not true. Aisha`s father was Muhammad`s longtime friend Abu Bakr. When Muhammad suggested the marriage, Abu Bakr tried to wriggle out of the deal. But Muhammad was insistent. And we all know what happened to those who stood in his way.

Some Muslims claim that it was Abu Bakr who approached Muhammad asking him to marry his daughter. This is of course not true and here is the proof.

Sahih Bukhari 7.18
Narrated `Ursa:
The Prophet asked Abu Bakr for `Aisha`s hand in marriage. Abu Bakr said ``But I am your brother.`` The Prophet said, ``You are my brother in Allah`s religion and His Book, but she (Aisha) is lawful for me to marry.``


[*rapist* - No. You`re probably referring to Javaria. She was given to Salit bin Qais Ansari as slave girl after one of Muhammad`s conquests. She had protested that she was the Chief`s daughter and if at all she is to be enslaved, it should not be to an ordinary soldier, but to another Chief. So Muhammad instead of enslaving her, married her and changed her name from Burah to Javaria. ]

No. Check out this link about Safiyah.



[So you lose 3:1.]

No, actually it is 0:4.

#430 by Raw_Dust

coz he wasnt terribly a smart guy .... he found a way to channel biblical thought to arab pagans and mastered the psychic drug

Wrong. How do you explain that within 20 years after his death his followers had defeated both the Byzantines AS WELL as the Persian Empire? Ordinary people can`t do that. How many people have you defeated?

Muhammad was, in many ways, quite exceptional. I think he was indeed divinely inspired. Other than his military skills, charisma, political maneouvres, he still found the time and the energy to visit his 11 wives everyday in his daily rounds at age 50+ . Now that`s exceptional. He somehow had time for everything. Allah made solutions for him.

the only defense possible for Mohammad`s pedophiliac union with Ayesha is on accounts of his derangement, but that might not sound a very good defense. :-)

#429
my reading of mohammad life is kinda sketchy but the question you posed in 429, i`d guess, coz he wasnt terribly a smart guy granted he found a way to channel biblical thought to arab pagans and mastered the psychic drug of eternal damnation to a point where entire clans, tribes, nations could be readily integrated. That strain of eternal damnation tied with Tauheed is, imo, the resilient germ that to this day makes a muslim from say senegal sound intelligible and similar in their outlook to a muslim residing in french polynesia

apart from that, islam`s ideas of society, governance(khilafat), finance had all been resoundingly bested by the West long time back.

#428 by masanamuthu

Atleast the one you accept, explain it to Mantolives.. :-))

Yes the only accusation I accept is the Nazi one. Muhammad undeniably was anti-jew and the jews were undeniably anti Muhammad. Perhaps it was scrapping over the ownership of the originally Jewish scriptures which Muhammad wanted to only reconfirm in his own way but the Jews didn`t even want to grant him that. Problem was with the Messiah ... Muhammad claimed to be that Messiah the Jews were waiting for going by their ancient scriptures, but Jews rejected that. So Muhammad thought best to get rid of them. Massacre of Bani Quraizah is a crime which `should` bear down on the Muslim conscience .. if they have any conscience left.... It was worse than what Hitler did in its implications over history.

But Muhammad was an exceptionally outstanding person. I`m still trying to figure out why he didn`t find a way to make the world a better place, instead of setting a path for ruin for all times.

Mantolives:

Get the Gandhi ``racist`` quotes and place it side by side with the verses/hadiths from Muhammad on Jews. Then I`d show your double standards.. :-))

zeemax:

LOL.. You accepted all the accusations and then say I lose 3:1.. Atleast the one you accept, explain it to Mantolives.. :-))

#420 by masanamuthu

We have your own ``religious holy documents`` to prove he is a arab nazi / pedophile / thief and a rapist..

Let`s be fair with these characteristics ascribed to Muhammad:

*arab nazi* - Yes. After Nebuchadnezzar and Titus, his was the third holocaust.

* pedophile* - No. All his marriages were to forge political alliances including Aisha. There is no evidence of any other minor girl attracting his attention during his lifetime.

*thief* - No. He never `stole` anything. Robbed at swordpoint ... yes.

*rapist* - No. You`re probably referring to Javaria. She was given to Salit bin Qais Ansari as slave girl after one of Muhammad`s conquests. She had protested that she was the Chief`s daughter and if at all she is to be enslaved, it should not be to an ordinary soldier, but to another Chief. So Muhammad instead of enslaving her, married her and changed her name from Burah to Javaria.

So you lose 3:1.

Great Islamic minds had commeneted in the past on this forum - ``See! Even Advani finally had to admit to the Secular nature of the grrreat man Jinnah!``.

While people with even a modicum of common sense realized that this was merely a move by Advani to neutralize the ``succullar`` politics being played by types like Lalu and the UPA, many muslims smiled smugly - ``he had to admit the undeniable fact!``. Many muslims even chose to ``forgive`` Advani for his comments in the past - he had been ``redeemed`` in their eyes.

Well their bubble has been burst rather rudely with the latest comments by the wily Advani. The Varansi blasts saw a different Advani castigating the UPA for communal vote-bank politics, and being weak on enforcing anti-terrorist measures, which has resulted in the Varanasi blast amongst others.

So he was just playing politics with his Jinnah comments after all! How confusing!