Varanasi Explodes
Chowk Staff March 7, 2006
#487 Posted by MantoLives on March 13, 2006 7:27:49 am
And while Ramanujan is such a big fan of chapter verse... how about Gandhi`s views on black people?
(I have taken this from my ilog so sorry about the repetition...)
On What Gandhi wanted
The last week has been very busy. We have not had a moment`s leisure. We saw Mr. Theodore Morison of Aligarh and the well-known Mr. Stead of the Review of Reviews. Mr. Stead has boldly come out to give us all the help he can. He was therefore requested to write to the same Boer leaders that they should not consider Indians as being on the same level as Kaffirs
Indian Opinion, 15-12-1906, CWOMG Vol. 6, pg 183
private delete
October 4, 2005
On What Gandhi wanted (3)
CLASSIFICATION OF ASIATICS WITH NATIVES
The cell was situated in the Native quarters and we were housed in one that was labeled `For Coloured Debtors`. It was this experience for which we were perhaps all unprepared. We had fondly imagined that we would have suitable quarters apart from the Natives. As it was, perhaps, just as well that we were classed with Natives. We would now be able to study the life of Native prisoners, their customs and manners. ...Degradation underlay the classing of Indians with natives. The Asiatic Act seemed to me to be the summit of our degradation. It did appear to me, as I think it would appear to any unprejudiced reader, that it would have been simple humanity if we were given special quarters. ...the Governor of the gaol tried to make us as comfortable as he could…But he was powerless to accommodate us beyond the horrible din and the yells of the Native prisoners throughout the day and partly at night also. Many of the native prisoners are only one degree removed from the animal and often created rows and fought amongst themselves in their cells.
Indian Opinion 7-3-1908, CWOMG Vol. 8, pg 120
Apart from whether or not this implies degradation, I must say it is rather dangerous. Kaffirs are as a rule uncivilized—the convicts even more so. They are troublesome, very dirty, and live almost like animals. Each ward contains nearly 50 to 60 of them. They often started rows and fought among themselves. The reader can easily imagine the plight of the poor Indian thrown into such company
Indian Opinion, 7-3-1908, CWOMG Vol. 8, pg 135
private delete
October 4, 2005
On What Gandhi wanted (2)
INDIANS ON PAR WITH KAFFIRS
There, our garments were stamped with the letter `N`, which meant that we were being classed with the Natives. We were all prepared for hardships, but not quite for this experience. We could understand not being classed with the whites, but to be placed on the same level with the Natives seemed too much to put up with. I then felt that Indians had launched on passive resistance too soon. Here was further proof that the obnoxious law was intended to emasculate the Indians.
It was, however, as well that we were classified with the Natives. It was a welcome opportunity to study the treatment meted out to the Natives, their conditions [of life in the gaol] and their habits. ...We were given a separate ward because we were sentenced to simple imprisonment; otherwise we would have been in the same ward [with the Kaffirs]. Indians sentenced to hard labour are in fact kept with the Kaffirs.
Apart from whether or not this implies degradation, I must say it is rather dangerous. Kaffirs are as a rule uncivilized—the convicts even more so. They are troublesome, very dirty, and live almost like animals. Each ward contains nearly 50 to 60 of them. They often started rows and fought among themselves. The reader can easily imagine the plight of the poor Indian thrown into such company
Indian Opinion, 7-3-1908, CWOMG Vol. 8, pg 135
private delete
October 4, 2005
On What Gandhi wanted (1)
I have, though, resolved in my mind on an agitation to ensure that Indian prisoners are not lodged with Kaffirs or others. When I arrived at the place, there were about 15 Indian prisoners. Except for three, all of them were satyagrahis. The three were charged with other offences. These prisoners were generally lodged with kaffirs. When I reached there, the chief warder issued an order that all of us should be lodged in a separate room. I observed with regret that some Indians were happy to sleep in the same room as the Kaffirs, the reason being that they hoped there for a secret supply of tobacco, etc. This is a matter of shame to us. We may entertain no aversion to the Kaffirs, but we cannot ignore the fact that there is no common ground between them and us in the daily affairs of life. Moreover, those who wish to sleep in the same room have ulterior motives for doing so.
Obviously, we ought to abandon such notions if we want to make progress.
Indian Opinion, 6-1-1909, CWOMG Vol. 9, pg 149
On What Gandhi wanted (9)
Gandhi`s disdain for black people continues:
It is one thing to register Natives who would not work, and whom it is very difficult to find out if they absent themselves, but it is another thing and most insulting to expect decent, hard-working, and respectable Indians, whose only fault is that they work too much, to have themselves registered
What is a Coolie, Indian Opinion 2151904, CWOMG Vol. 4, pg 193
CWOMG: Collected Works of Mahatma Gandhi
private delete
October 4, 2005
On What Gandhi wanted (8)
The whole affair is as much a disgrace to the Indian community as it is to the British Empire. The British rulers take us to be so lowly and ignorant that they assume that, like the Kaffirs who can be pleased with toys and pins, we can also be fobbed off with trinkets
Indian Opinion, 29-2-1908, CWOMG Vol. 8, pg 105
CWOMG: Collected Works of Mahatma Gandhi
private delete
October 4, 2005
On What Gandhi wanted (7)
More on SEPARATE AND UNEQUAL theory of Gandhiji…
His Excellency has, moreover, justified the definition of `coloured person` on the ground that it is a legacy from the old Government. But British Indians object to the definition for that very reason. Their position is this. The ordinances will not in practice apply to them. The Boer Government insulted the Indians by classing them with the Kaffirs. Now there is no occasion to perpetuate a needless insult
Indians in the O.R.C, Indian Opinion, 6-1-1906, CWOMG, Vol. 5, pg 177-178
Collected Works of Mahatma Gandhi: CWOMG
private delete
October 4, 2005
On What Gandhi wanted (6)
More on SEPARATE AND UNEQUAL theory of Gandhiji…
His Excellency has, moreover, justified the definition of `coloured person` on the ground that it is a legacy from the old Government. But British Indians object to the definition for that very reason. Their position is this. The ordinances will not in practice apply to them. The Boer Government insulted the Indians by classing them with the Kaffirs. Now there is no occasion to perpetuate a needless insult
Indians in the O.R.C, Indian Opinion, 6-1-1906, CWOMG, Vol. 5, pg 177-178
Collected Works of Mahatma Gandhi: CWOMG
private delete
October 4, 2005
On What Gandhi wanted (5)
It reduces British Indians to a status lower than that of the aboriginal races of South Africa and the Coloured people.
Indian Opinion 15-9-1906, CWOMG Vol. 5, pg 419-423
On What Gandhi wanted (14)
On Minority White rule in South Africa:
We, therefore, have no hesitation in agreeing with the view that in the long run assisted Asiatic immigration into the Transvaal would be disastrous to the white settlement. People will gradually accommodate themselves to relying upon Asiatic labour, and any White immigration of the special class required in the Transvaal on a large scale will be practically impossible. It would be equally unfair to the Natives of the soil. It is all very well to say that they would not work, and that, if the Asiatics were introduced, that would be a stimulus to work; but human nature is the same everywhere, and once Asiatic labour is resorted to, there would not be a sustained effort to induce the Natives to work under what would otherwise be, after all, gentle compulsion. There would be then less talk about taxing the Natives and so forth. Natives themselves, used as they are to a very simple mode of life, will always be able to command enough wages to meet their wants; and the result will be putting back their progress for an indefinite length of time. We have used the words `gentle compulsion` in the best sense of the term; we mean compulsion of the same kind that a parent exercises over children
Indian Opinion, 9-7-1903, CWOMG Vol. 3, pg 359-360
CWOMG: COLLECTED WORKS OF MAHATMA GANDHI.
private delete
October 4, 2005
On What Gandhi wanted (13)
On Minority White rule in South Africa:
We, therefore, have no hesitation in agreeing with the view that in the long run assisted Asiatic immigration into the Transvaal would be disastrous to the white settlement. People will gradually accommodate themselves to relying upon Asiatic labour, and any White immigration of the special class required in the Transvaal on a large scale will be practically impossible. It would be equally unfair to the Natives of the soil. It is all very well to say that they would not work, and that, if the Asiatics were introduced, that would be a stimulus to work; but human nature is the same everywhere, and once Asiatic labour is resorted to, there would not be a sustained effort to induce the Natives to work under what would otherwise be, after all, gentle compulsion. There would be then less talk about taxing the Natives and so forth. Natives themselves, used as they are to a very simple mode of life, will always be able to command enough wages to meet their wants; and the result will be putting back their progress for an indefinite length of time. We have used the words `gentle compulsion` in the best sense of the term; we mean compulsion of the same kind that a parent exercises over children
For Beej who is apparently BLIND: Indian Opinion, 9-7-1903, CWOMG Vol. 3, pg 359-360
CWOMG: COLLECTED WORKS OF MAHATMA GANDHI.
private delete
October 4, 2005
On What Gandhi wanted (12)
What the British Indians pray for is very little. They ask for no political power. They admit the British race should be the dominant race in South Africa. All they ask for is freedom for those that are now settled and those that may be allowed to come in future to trade, to move about, and to hold landed property without any hindrance save the ordinary legal requirements
Petition to Natal Legislature, CWOMG, vol3, pg 330
private delete
October 4, 2005
On What Gandhi wanted (11)
Ah… and they said Plessey Vs Ferguson was bad…
Well here is Gandhi with his theory of ``Separate and Unequal``
...The petition dwells upon ``the co-mingling of the Coloured and white races``. May we inform the members of the conference that, so far as the British Indians are concerned, such a thing is practically unknown? If there is one thing, which the Indian cherishes more than any other, it is the purity of type. Why bring such a question into the controversy at all?
The Transvaal Chambers and British Indians, Indian Opinion 24-12-03, CWOMG Vol. 4, pg 89
private delete
October 4, 2005
On What Gandhi wanted (10)
More on Gandhi`s theory of ``separate and unequal``
Why, of all places in Johannesburg, the Indian Location should be chosen for dumping down all the Kaffirs of the town passes my comprehension. ...Of course, under my suggestion, The Town Council must withdraw the Kaffirs from the Location. About this mixing of Kaffirs with the Indians, I must confess I feel most strongly
Indian Opinion, 10-4-04, CWOMG Vol. 4, pg 130-131
(I have taken this from my ilog so sorry about the repetition...)
On What Gandhi wanted
The last week has been very busy. We have not had a moment`s leisure. We saw Mr. Theodore Morison of Aligarh and the well-known Mr. Stead of the Review of Reviews. Mr. Stead has boldly come out to give us all the help he can. He was therefore requested to write to the same Boer leaders that they should not consider Indians as being on the same level as Kaffirs
Indian Opinion, 15-12-1906, CWOMG Vol. 6, pg 183
private delete
October 4, 2005
On What Gandhi wanted (3)
CLASSIFICATION OF ASIATICS WITH NATIVES
The cell was situated in the Native quarters and we were housed in one that was labeled `For Coloured Debtors`. It was this experience for which we were perhaps all unprepared. We had fondly imagined that we would have suitable quarters apart from the Natives. As it was, perhaps, just as well that we were classed with Natives. We would now be able to study the life of Native prisoners, their customs and manners. ...Degradation underlay the classing of Indians with natives. The Asiatic Act seemed to me to be the summit of our degradation. It did appear to me, as I think it would appear to any unprejudiced reader, that it would have been simple humanity if we were given special quarters. ...the Governor of the gaol tried to make us as comfortable as he could…But he was powerless to accommodate us beyond the horrible din and the yells of the Native prisoners throughout the day and partly at night also. Many of the native prisoners are only one degree removed from the animal and often created rows and fought amongst themselves in their cells.
Indian Opinion 7-3-1908, CWOMG Vol. 8, pg 120
Apart from whether or not this implies degradation, I must say it is rather dangerous. Kaffirs are as a rule uncivilized—the convicts even more so. They are troublesome, very dirty, and live almost like animals. Each ward contains nearly 50 to 60 of them. They often started rows and fought among themselves. The reader can easily imagine the plight of the poor Indian thrown into such company
Indian Opinion, 7-3-1908, CWOMG Vol. 8, pg 135
private delete
October 4, 2005
On What Gandhi wanted (2)
INDIANS ON PAR WITH KAFFIRS
There, our garments were stamped with the letter `N`, which meant that we were being classed with the Natives. We were all prepared for hardships, but not quite for this experience. We could understand not being classed with the whites, but to be placed on the same level with the Natives seemed too much to put up with. I then felt that Indians had launched on passive resistance too soon. Here was further proof that the obnoxious law was intended to emasculate the Indians.
It was, however, as well that we were classified with the Natives. It was a welcome opportunity to study the treatment meted out to the Natives, their conditions [of life in the gaol] and their habits. ...We were given a separate ward because we were sentenced to simple imprisonment; otherwise we would have been in the same ward [with the Kaffirs]. Indians sentenced to hard labour are in fact kept with the Kaffirs.
Apart from whether or not this implies degradation, I must say it is rather dangerous. Kaffirs are as a rule uncivilized—the convicts even more so. They are troublesome, very dirty, and live almost like animals. Each ward contains nearly 50 to 60 of them. They often started rows and fought among themselves. The reader can easily imagine the plight of the poor Indian thrown into such company
Indian Opinion, 7-3-1908, CWOMG Vol. 8, pg 135
private delete
October 4, 2005
On What Gandhi wanted (1)
I have, though, resolved in my mind on an agitation to ensure that Indian prisoners are not lodged with Kaffirs or others. When I arrived at the place, there were about 15 Indian prisoners. Except for three, all of them were satyagrahis. The three were charged with other offences. These prisoners were generally lodged with kaffirs. When I reached there, the chief warder issued an order that all of us should be lodged in a separate room. I observed with regret that some Indians were happy to sleep in the same room as the Kaffirs, the reason being that they hoped there for a secret supply of tobacco, etc. This is a matter of shame to us. We may entertain no aversion to the Kaffirs, but we cannot ignore the fact that there is no common ground between them and us in the daily affairs of life. Moreover, those who wish to sleep in the same room have ulterior motives for doing so.
Obviously, we ought to abandon such notions if we want to make progress.
Indian Opinion, 6-1-1909, CWOMG Vol. 9, pg 149
On What Gandhi wanted (9)
Gandhi`s disdain for black people continues:
It is one thing to register Natives who would not work, and whom it is very difficult to find out if they absent themselves, but it is another thing and most insulting to expect decent, hard-working, and respectable Indians, whose only fault is that they work too much, to have themselves registered
What is a Coolie, Indian Opinion 2151904, CWOMG Vol. 4, pg 193
CWOMG: Collected Works of Mahatma Gandhi
private delete
October 4, 2005
On What Gandhi wanted (8)
The whole affair is as much a disgrace to the Indian community as it is to the British Empire. The British rulers take us to be so lowly and ignorant that they assume that, like the Kaffirs who can be pleased with toys and pins, we can also be fobbed off with trinkets
Indian Opinion, 29-2-1908, CWOMG Vol. 8, pg 105
CWOMG: Collected Works of Mahatma Gandhi
private delete
October 4, 2005
On What Gandhi wanted (7)
More on SEPARATE AND UNEQUAL theory of Gandhiji…
His Excellency has, moreover, justified the definition of `coloured person` on the ground that it is a legacy from the old Government. But British Indians object to the definition for that very reason. Their position is this. The ordinances will not in practice apply to them. The Boer Government insulted the Indians by classing them with the Kaffirs. Now there is no occasion to perpetuate a needless insult
Indians in the O.R.C, Indian Opinion, 6-1-1906, CWOMG, Vol. 5, pg 177-178
Collected Works of Mahatma Gandhi: CWOMG
private delete
October 4, 2005
On What Gandhi wanted (6)
More on SEPARATE AND UNEQUAL theory of Gandhiji…
His Excellency has, moreover, justified the definition of `coloured person` on the ground that it is a legacy from the old Government. But British Indians object to the definition for that very reason. Their position is this. The ordinances will not in practice apply to them. The Boer Government insulted the Indians by classing them with the Kaffirs. Now there is no occasion to perpetuate a needless insult
Indians in the O.R.C, Indian Opinion, 6-1-1906, CWOMG, Vol. 5, pg 177-178
Collected Works of Mahatma Gandhi: CWOMG
private delete
October 4, 2005
On What Gandhi wanted (5)
It reduces British Indians to a status lower than that of the aboriginal races of South Africa and the Coloured people.
Indian Opinion 15-9-1906, CWOMG Vol. 5, pg 419-423
On What Gandhi wanted (14)
On Minority White rule in South Africa:
We, therefore, have no hesitation in agreeing with the view that in the long run assisted Asiatic immigration into the Transvaal would be disastrous to the white settlement. People will gradually accommodate themselves to relying upon Asiatic labour, and any White immigration of the special class required in the Transvaal on a large scale will be practically impossible. It would be equally unfair to the Natives of the soil. It is all very well to say that they would not work, and that, if the Asiatics were introduced, that would be a stimulus to work; but human nature is the same everywhere, and once Asiatic labour is resorted to, there would not be a sustained effort to induce the Natives to work under what would otherwise be, after all, gentle compulsion. There would be then less talk about taxing the Natives and so forth. Natives themselves, used as they are to a very simple mode of life, will always be able to command enough wages to meet their wants; and the result will be putting back their progress for an indefinite length of time. We have used the words `gentle compulsion` in the best sense of the term; we mean compulsion of the same kind that a parent exercises over children
Indian Opinion, 9-7-1903, CWOMG Vol. 3, pg 359-360
CWOMG: COLLECTED WORKS OF MAHATMA GANDHI.
private delete
October 4, 2005
On What Gandhi wanted (13)
On Minority White rule in South Africa:
We, therefore, have no hesitation in agreeing with the view that in the long run assisted Asiatic immigration into the Transvaal would be disastrous to the white settlement. People will gradually accommodate themselves to relying upon Asiatic labour, and any White immigration of the special class required in the Transvaal on a large scale will be practically impossible. It would be equally unfair to the Natives of the soil. It is all very well to say that they would not work, and that, if the Asiatics were introduced, that would be a stimulus to work; but human nature is the same everywhere, and once Asiatic labour is resorted to, there would not be a sustained effort to induce the Natives to work under what would otherwise be, after all, gentle compulsion. There would be then less talk about taxing the Natives and so forth. Natives themselves, used as they are to a very simple mode of life, will always be able to command enough wages to meet their wants; and the result will be putting back their progress for an indefinite length of time. We have used the words `gentle compulsion` in the best sense of the term; we mean compulsion of the same kind that a parent exercises over children
For Beej who is apparently BLIND: Indian Opinion, 9-7-1903, CWOMG Vol. 3, pg 359-360
CWOMG: COLLECTED WORKS OF MAHATMA GANDHI.
private delete
October 4, 2005
On What Gandhi wanted (12)
What the British Indians pray for is very little. They ask for no political power. They admit the British race should be the dominant race in South Africa. All they ask for is freedom for those that are now settled and those that may be allowed to come in future to trade, to move about, and to hold landed property without any hindrance save the ordinary legal requirements
Petition to Natal Legislature, CWOMG, vol3, pg 330
private delete
October 4, 2005
On What Gandhi wanted (11)
Ah… and they said Plessey Vs Ferguson was bad…
Well here is Gandhi with his theory of ``Separate and Unequal``
...The petition dwells upon ``the co-mingling of the Coloured and white races``. May we inform the members of the conference that, so far as the British Indians are concerned, such a thing is practically unknown? If there is one thing, which the Indian cherishes more than any other, it is the purity of type. Why bring such a question into the controversy at all?
The Transvaal Chambers and British Indians, Indian Opinion 24-12-03, CWOMG Vol. 4, pg 89
private delete
October 4, 2005
On What Gandhi wanted (10)
More on Gandhi`s theory of ``separate and unequal``
Why, of all places in Johannesburg, the Indian Location should be chosen for dumping down all the Kaffirs of the town passes my comprehension. ...Of course, under my suggestion, The Town Council must withdraw the Kaffirs from the Location. About this mixing of Kaffirs with the Indians, I must confess I feel most strongly
Indian Opinion, 10-4-04, CWOMG Vol. 4, pg 130-131
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#486 Posted by Ramanujan on March 13, 2006 7:22:40 am
#483 by Mantolives
[``Who is it that claimed that is was written in the 1920s or 1940s? Are you on drugs or something?``
Apparently Mr Gandhi... who wrote the damn book. The experiment with the truth was written in you may check it. The last chapter of the book deals with the Nagpur session of the Congress Party in 1920...]
Idiot. My question was did I bring up ANYTHING about 1920/1940? What are you babbling about? How did this issue even come up? And why is it relevent?
[That you don`t know something simple as that automatically disqualifies you as a worthy opponent... you are merely a charlatan wasting my time.]
You won`t escape so easily as far as I am concerned. There`s going to be a lot of suffering coming your way if you are unable to produce the the references I mentioned.
So far, NOT ONE of your arguments are supported by references.
[``Who is it that claimed that is was written in the 1920s or 1940s? Are you on drugs or something?``
Apparently Mr Gandhi... who wrote the damn book. The experiment with the truth was written in you may check it. The last chapter of the book deals with the Nagpur session of the Congress Party in 1920...]
Idiot. My question was did I bring up ANYTHING about 1920/1940? What are you babbling about? How did this issue even come up? And why is it relevent?
[That you don`t know something simple as that automatically disqualifies you as a worthy opponent... you are merely a charlatan wasting my time.]
You won`t escape so easily as far as I am concerned. There`s going to be a lot of suffering coming your way if you are unable to produce the the references I mentioned.
So far, NOT ONE of your arguments are supported by references.
#490 Posted by MantoLives on March 13, 2006 7:33:23 am
Re: # 486
Get a life. #485 and 487 should give you more than enough references.
Get a life. #485 and 487 should give you more than enough references.
#485 Posted by MantoLives on March 13, 2006 7:21:25 am
Time magazine: http://www.time.com/time/time100/leaders/profile/gandhi3.html
His own purification regime involved inordinate attention to the bowel movements of himself and those around him, and he liked testing his powers of self-denial by sleeping naked with young women.
http://www.time.com/time/time100/leaders/profile/gandhi3.html
Gandhi later forswore sexual relations but went on into his old age with what he called his ``brahmacharya experiments,`` during which naked young women would be asked to lie with him all night so that he could prove that he had mastered his physical urges. (He believed that total control over his ``vital fluids`` would enhance his spiritual powers.)
http://www.kirjasto.sci.fi/gandhi.htm
He was jailed several times and went on hunger strikes to focus attention on his cause. To test his self-control Gandhi slept naked with young women.
#484 Posted by Ramanujan on March 13, 2006 7:17:16 am
#477 by omar_r_quraishi
[ramanujan dear -- yes some of us know how orientelist western journalists can be about india -- of course its bad and they shouldnt do it -- funny tho because your own compatriots here love to quote western news sources all the time -- also, you didnt say much of Indian intelligence`s comments that its prob not a Pakistan based outfit -- ]
Why should I ``say much``? Idiot? Where did I claim it was a Paki outfit?
[the media in the US is infested by lefties - abey where the fu k u living -- u sound talk and walk like a moronic NRI -- Fox news beats CNN hollow in ratings -- its leftist isnt it -- radio talk shows which are now a major source of `information` for americans with huge listening audiences are also leftie dominated arent they - yes i believer their cheerleader is this guy called rush limbaugh -- ]
Fox news is the sole exception on TV. But AM/FM radio is definitely far more right-wing. And increasingly so, thank god.
Many years ago, when I came to America, Americans had NO idea how bad this curse on humanity called Islam is. Because they had never suffered directly. But all that is changing. Americans are dying, there`s terrorism all over. Americans live in fear in their own homeland like Indians have done for a 1000 years. There`s anti-Islamic talk around the clock on radio. Attitudes are changing drastically. The recent Port Deal did not go through because THAT`S HOW MUCH AMERICANS DISLIKE ANYTHING ISLAMIC. Another few years of this, and hopefully the results will be permanent. I`m keeping my fingers crossed.
[ramanujan man you`re just another paki-hating RSS/VHP loving moron on the block -- ]
Yes yes of course. I am the moron. And the idiot who loses every argument is the bright one. How mediocre people like you get jobs in established Paki newspapers in beyond me.
But then, that`s Pakiland for you.
:)
[ramanujan dear -- yes some of us know how orientelist western journalists can be about india -- of course its bad and they shouldnt do it -- funny tho because your own compatriots here love to quote western news sources all the time -- also, you didnt say much of Indian intelligence`s comments that its prob not a Pakistan based outfit -- ]
Why should I ``say much``? Idiot? Where did I claim it was a Paki outfit?
[the media in the US is infested by lefties - abey where the fu k u living -- u sound talk and walk like a moronic NRI -- Fox news beats CNN hollow in ratings -- its leftist isnt it -- radio talk shows which are now a major source of `information` for americans with huge listening audiences are also leftie dominated arent they - yes i believer their cheerleader is this guy called rush limbaugh -- ]
Fox news is the sole exception on TV. But AM/FM radio is definitely far more right-wing. And increasingly so, thank god.
Many years ago, when I came to America, Americans had NO idea how bad this curse on humanity called Islam is. Because they had never suffered directly. But all that is changing. Americans are dying, there`s terrorism all over. Americans live in fear in their own homeland like Indians have done for a 1000 years. There`s anti-Islamic talk around the clock on radio. Attitudes are changing drastically. The recent Port Deal did not go through because THAT`S HOW MUCH AMERICANS DISLIKE ANYTHING ISLAMIC. Another few years of this, and hopefully the results will be permanent. I`m keeping my fingers crossed.
[ramanujan man you`re just another paki-hating RSS/VHP loving moron on the block -- ]
Yes yes of course. I am the moron. And the idiot who loses every argument is the bright one. How mediocre people like you get jobs in established Paki newspapers in beyond me.
But then, that`s Pakiland for you.
:)
#483 Posted by MantoLives on March 13, 2006 7:11:40 am
Ramanujan...
``Who is it that claimed that is was written in the 1920s or 1940s? Are you on drugs or something?``
Apparently Mr Gandhi... who wrote the damn book. The experiment with the truth was written in you may check it. The last chapter of the book deals with the Nagpur session of the Congress Party in 1920... That you don`t know something simple as that automatically disqualifies you as a worthy opponent... you are merely a charlatan wasting my time.
Now continue your nonsense.
``Who is it that claimed that is was written in the 1920s or 1940s? Are you on drugs or something?``
Apparently Mr Gandhi... who wrote the damn book. The experiment with the truth was written in you may check it. The last chapter of the book deals with the Nagpur session of the Congress Party in 1920... That you don`t know something simple as that automatically disqualifies you as a worthy opponent... you are merely a charlatan wasting my time.
Now continue your nonsense.
#482 Posted by MantoLives on March 13, 2006 7:03:26 am
masanamuthu...
That someone else as in Mr Gandhi is someone whose entire life is documented first hand and there is no doubt about it.
Patricia Crone`s book ``Hagarism`` is banned from the Islamic World as it negates completely the entire premise of Islam... I am using it to show that nothing we know of Muhammad can be accepted as certainty ... except that he lived somewhere between 550-650 AD (and not definitely 571-632 as people allege)..
My submission ofcourse is that I don`t accept the Hadith literature or literature on Muhammad as authentic...
That someone else as in Mr Gandhi is someone whose entire life is documented first hand and there is no doubt about it.
Patricia Crone`s book ``Hagarism`` is banned from the Islamic World as it negates completely the entire premise of Islam... I am using it to show that nothing we know of Muhammad can be accepted as certainty ... except that he lived somewhere between 550-650 AD (and not definitely 571-632 as people allege)..
My submission ofcourse is that I don`t accept the Hadith literature or literature on Muhammad as authentic...
#481 Posted by Ramanujan on March 13, 2006 7:00:41 am
#466 by Mantolives
[For your information Gandhi`s Experiment with the Truth was written some where close to 1920... and not in 1940s. ]
Who is it that claimed that is was written in the 1920s or 1940s? Are you on drugs or something?
[Richard Grenier`s essay forms a part of larger book. Gandhi`s sleeping habits intensified after Kasturba kicked the bucket... ]
Whether his essay was part of a larger book or not is irrelevent. Kindly post the information regarding THE SOURCE OF HIS INFORMATION.
[This is from the Time Magazine which is the gospel of the truth..
``and he liked testing his powers of self-denial by sleeping naked with young women`` ]
Maybe a gospel of truth for you, but not for me.
In any case, which Time Magazine? Which edition?
[Here is another book you might want to consider: Joseph S. Alter. Gandhi`s Body: Sex, Diet, and the Politics of Nationalism .
Furthermore... if I remember correctly another Pro-Gandhi book ``Freedom at Midnight`` makes references to this bizarre activity as well... so does Gandhi`s Passion mind you... ]
Give quotes and references -
1) the exact quote
and
2) where the authors got THEIR information from.
[And this from another pro-Gandhi website:
`` To test his self-control Gandhi slept naked with young women``]
Which website? What reference? What is the source of THEIR information?
I would suggest that instead of making unsupported accusations, you provide all this information. Which is what I always do when I make an accusation.
Saying that you are too busy won`t cut it. You have enough time to post endless messages on Gandhi and Jinnah on Chowk.
Because if you don`t I would have to conclude that you are lying.
And we don`t want that to happen. do we?
[For your information Gandhi`s Experiment with the Truth was written some where close to 1920... and not in 1940s. ]
Who is it that claimed that is was written in the 1920s or 1940s? Are you on drugs or something?
[Richard Grenier`s essay forms a part of larger book. Gandhi`s sleeping habits intensified after Kasturba kicked the bucket... ]
Whether his essay was part of a larger book or not is irrelevent. Kindly post the information regarding THE SOURCE OF HIS INFORMATION.
[This is from the Time Magazine which is the gospel of the truth..
``and he liked testing his powers of self-denial by sleeping naked with young women`` ]
Maybe a gospel of truth for you, but not for me.
In any case, which Time Magazine? Which edition?
[Here is another book you might want to consider: Joseph S. Alter. Gandhi`s Body: Sex, Diet, and the Politics of Nationalism .
Furthermore... if I remember correctly another Pro-Gandhi book ``Freedom at Midnight`` makes references to this bizarre activity as well... so does Gandhi`s Passion mind you... ]
Give quotes and references -
1) the exact quote
and
2) where the authors got THEIR information from.
[And this from another pro-Gandhi website:
`` To test his self-control Gandhi slept naked with young women``]
Which website? What reference? What is the source of THEIR information?
I would suggest that instead of making unsupported accusations, you provide all this information. Which is what I always do when I make an accusation.
Saying that you are too busy won`t cut it. You have enough time to post endless messages on Gandhi and Jinnah on Chowk.
Because if you don`t I would have to conclude that you are lying.
And we don`t want that to happen. do we?
#480 Posted by masanamuthu on March 13, 2006 6:00:21 am
Mantolives:
As I told Raw Dust and Zeemax... Patricia Crone`s book has created enough doubts about the authenticity of Islamic literature on Muhammad... so frankly this is a pointless discussion.
I also know that he was held by many jews as a breakaway sect of Judaism ... who was gathering Arab-Jewish forces to liberate Jerusalem from Byzantium...
Read ``Hagarism`` (a book I find fascinating.. ) to see how the story might be completely different.
You are funny.. You want people to read Patricia Crone`s book to find out the real meaning of why Muhammad treated Jews harshly (like calling for mass killings), while I am quoting from the authentic Islam propagating websites. If you feel that the Hadiths are NOT authentic, say it in the open. (Or) Do you think they are not authentic in the cases of Muslims being in a minority, and they become authentic when they get enough power..
:-))
And then you expect people to believe you about your statements on someone else..
As I told Raw Dust and Zeemax... Patricia Crone`s book has created enough doubts about the authenticity of Islamic literature on Muhammad... so frankly this is a pointless discussion.
I also know that he was held by many jews as a breakaway sect of Judaism ... who was gathering Arab-Jewish forces to liberate Jerusalem from Byzantium...
Read ``Hagarism`` (a book I find fascinating.. ) to see how the story might be completely different.
You are funny.. You want people to read Patricia Crone`s book to find out the real meaning of why Muhammad treated Jews harshly (like calling for mass killings), while I am quoting from the authentic Islam propagating websites. If you feel that the Hadiths are NOT authentic, say it in the open. (Or) Do you think they are not authentic in the cases of Muslims being in a minority, and they become authentic when they get enough power..
:-))
And then you expect people to believe you about your statements on someone else..
#479 Posted by MantoLives on March 13, 2006 4:49:36 am
Please don`t change your objectives at so late a stage. You claimed many times that you were here to shut me up about racist casteist freak that you call Mahatma Gandhi.
#478 Posted by harish_hyd on March 13, 2006 3:53:47 am
#474 by Mantolives
[PS: give it up. You won`t be able to shut me up by abusing me... or catching these small omissions/mistakes which don`t even make sense.]
Glad that you recognized that your words don`t make sense. That`s what I`ve been stressing upon all these years. And please don`t be under the impression that I`m here to shut you up. The more you open your mouth, the more you make an ass of yourself. That`s what I`m here to help you do.
[PS: give it up. You won`t be able to shut me up by abusing me... or catching these small omissions/mistakes which don`t even make sense.]
Glad that you recognized that your words don`t make sense. That`s what I`ve been stressing upon all these years. And please don`t be under the impression that I`m here to shut you up. The more you open your mouth, the more you make an ass of yourself. That`s what I`m here to help you do.
#477 Posted by omar_r_quraishi on March 13, 2006 3:51:35 am
#320 abey masana mitthu -- i dont know about the arab news or Gulf News (the UAE has considerable censorship) but most pakistani papers frequently do take not of things that occur at home --
ramanujan dear -- yes some of us know how orientelist western journalists can be about india -- of course its bad and they shouldnt do it -- funny tho because your own compatriots here love to quote western news sources all the time -- also, you didnt say much of Indian intelligence`s comments that its prob not a Pakistan based outfit --
the media in the US is infested by lefties - abey where the fu k u living -- u sound talk and walk like a moronic NRI -- Fox news beats CNN hollow in ratings -- its leftist isnt it -- radio talk shows which are now a major source of `information` for americans with huge listening audiences are also leftie dominated arent they - yes i believer their cheerleader is this guy called rush limbaugh -- ramanujan man you`re just another paki-hating RSS/VHP loving moron on the block --
now ``see this through`` --
ramanujan dear -- yes some of us know how orientelist western journalists can be about india -- of course its bad and they shouldnt do it -- funny tho because your own compatriots here love to quote western news sources all the time -- also, you didnt say much of Indian intelligence`s comments that its prob not a Pakistan based outfit --
the media in the US is infested by lefties - abey where the fu k u living -- u sound talk and walk like a moronic NRI -- Fox news beats CNN hollow in ratings -- its leftist isnt it -- radio talk shows which are now a major source of `information` for americans with huge listening audiences are also leftie dominated arent they - yes i believer their cheerleader is this guy called rush limbaugh -- ramanujan man you`re just another paki-hating RSS/VHP loving moron on the block --
now ``see this through`` --
#476 Posted by MantoLives on March 13, 2006 3:07:27 am
Masanamuthu...
As I told Raw Dust and Zeemax... Patricia Crone`s book has created enough doubts about the authenticity of Islamic literature on Muhammad... so frankly this is a pointless discussion.
I also know that he was held by many jews as a breakaway sect of Judaism ... who was gathering Arab-Jewish forces to liberate Jerusalem from Byzantium...
Read ``Hagarism`` (a book I find fascinating.. ) to see how the story might be completely different.
#475 Posted by masanamuthu on March 13, 2006 3:02:13 am
Mantolives:
I asked what do you think of Muhammad`s saying that ``the last day won`t come unless the Muslims kill the Jews`` and you call it humane for 7`th century.. It is barbaric and nazist for any century..
That why I was LOL.. Not just me. Anyone would laugh at that. Just get an equivalent statement from Gandhi..
I asked what do you think of Muhammad`s saying that ``the last day won`t come unless the Muslims kill the Jews`` and you call it humane for 7`th century.. It is barbaric and nazist for any century..
That why I was LOL.. Not just me. Anyone would laugh at that. Just get an equivalent statement from Gandhi..
#474 Posted by MantoLives on March 13, 2006 2:14:57 am
PS: give it up. You won`t be able to shut me up by abusing me... or catching these small omissions/mistakes which don`t even make sense.
#473 Posted by MantoLives on March 13, 2006 2:11:11 am
I meant it sarcastically. Sorry if it didn`t come out right (i wanted to say gospel of the truth for the Indians) ..this is the best you can do... get me on technicality, typo or a spelling mistake.
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