Varanasi Explodes

#42 WTF are you talking about? one does not need support from powerfull foreign stations or interests to kill one man...all it needs is a pistol and way to reach to the guy which was much easy to do in 1948...remember no metal detectors, no xray machines..all you need was a look that resembled typical Gandhi follower...thats what Godse did.
but of course he was motivated by RSS and his other Hindu idealoges....leave it to you to make it an international conspiracy.

#45 by stuka


[POTA is a legal act with national secuirty implications and no religious bias. ]

So you think the Congress government was wrong in repealing POTA?


[Neither you now I ``know`` what happened in Godhra. We may choose to believe one thing or the other. ]

Yes. We only truly ``know`` when it is Muslims who are the victims.

But in any case, what do YOU believe happened?


[Regardless of what happened in Godhra, the Gov`t response was despicable. ]

I did not ask you about the Government`s response.

#49 but if you saying otehrs might have wished him dead...sure many did..but they did not kill him....I wished Indra Gandhi killed...but did I kill her? no.

#27 umermurtaza
hear hear

Re #52 by soysauce

So you agree with UmerMurtaza that it is possible that it is quite possible that the RSS/VHP/RAW might have been behind the Varanasi blasts?

Re: # 15

Re: # 15
re: Ramanujan # various

Not only are your reactions and statements ill considered, inflammatory, escalatory and kneejerk, they`re probably illegal. Consider.
Among other things, you`ve called for the destruction of places of worship. I`d say you might be guilty of hurting religious feelings, guilty of promoting enmity between different groups on the grounds of religion & doing acts prejudicial to the maintenance of harmony, guilty of making statements that are intended to incite offences against a community; guilty, under the same provision, of making statements that promote ``feelings of enmity, hatred or ill-will`` between different religions and guilty of making statements prejudicial to national integration.

Do read the last link, it`s my favourite. Under that provision it is a crime, for example, to state that Muslims, by virtue of their being Muslims, be denied any rights as citizens of India.

So tell me, Ramanujan, could you explain why you are not guilty ? Would you care to picket the State Legislature or Parliament, holding a placard that reproduces what you`ve said on this board?

Catch the killers who planted the bombs and punish them heavily, according to the law. Reprisals against innocent people for attacks against innocent people are not only counterproductive and escalatory, they are AGAINST THE LAW.

Or do you not believe in the law ? Or do you believe only in a part of it ?

Aha_Snark

Re: #54 by Aha_Snark

[So tell me, Ramanujan, could you explain why you are not guilty ?]

Ok, let me tell you.

And after I tell you, YOU BETTER EXPLAIN TO ME WHY YOUR REACTION IS NOY KNEE JERK.

Here`s what I said:


[This is what SHOULD happen.

After the bastards are caught,

1) let`s find out which communities gave shelter to them.

2) blow up ALL the mosques in those communities.

3) if any muslim dares to even utter a word in protest, do the same to THEIR community as well.

But this won`t happen. Because of the cowlike nature of the Hindus, and because of the Commie ba$tards. ]


The communities that gave them shelter are guilty of criminal conspiracy. Blowing up their mosques is the LEAST we should do.



[Would you care to picket the State Legislature or Parliament, holding a placard that reproduces what you`ve said on this board?]

I would, in any democratic country. But in India, politics is run according to what the swing voters want.



[Catch the killers who planted the bombs and punish them heavily, according to the law. Reprisals against innocent people for attacks against innocent people are not only counterproductive and escalatory, they are AGAINST THE LAW. ]

Why is it that people who are compicit in criminal conspiracy are ``innocent``?




[Or do you not believe in the law ? Or do you believe only in a part of it ? ]


It seems to me that YOU are the one that thinks that people who are complicit in criminal conspiracy should be let off scot-free.

Ramanujan,

What I`m saying is that it could by anyone, and that includes the RSS but it also includes the ISI. We`ll never know.

The point is, you didn`t bomb the Varnasis and neither did I. The only two things you can actually do is 1) send money and consolations to the victims and 2) refuse to fuel any flames towards anyone.

Anything else and you`re a puppet.

Umer M

I think it is time I come in here to put the whole thing in perspective.

I am 100% sure Kashmiris are behind this and Indian should get ready for more.
Here are extracts from my two posts just a couple of months or so ago…

“If India continues dillydallying in Kashmir, then Pakistani and Kashmiris may test Indian will in the Indian cities. If the Indian army can visit Kashmiris in their civilian homes, Kashmiris should look forward to visiting the Indian civilian homes too.

``You cannot deal with a problem by sitting on your hunches. The status quo in Kashmir is broken for good. Either India should deal with it or be ready to pay a price as that is how this world works. Crying and talking about Jihadi would not change a thing.”

Another post…

“The Indian cities option has just opened up and it is different than the previous incidents. Now the Indian public and the Indian government have to reconcile with the fact that they can face this issue in the Indian cities.”

How does that go… you reap what you sow…..

Don`t worry folks,nothing extra ordinary would happen.. This is just another ``blasts for the month``..

The reactions of Sonia, Manmohan, Kalam, Advani are so predictable.. Check out the July 5/6th 2005 newsreports / editorials after the Ayodhya blasts, and the November 2/3 2005 reports after the Diwali blasts in Delhi..

It is getting routine..

I think Ravishankar, the spiritual guru said it right, Hindus are feeling scared before their festivals Diwali then and Holi now..

This is a long war between ``believers`` and ``kafirs``.. In the meantime, avoid crowded temples, railway stations etc..

Re: # 55
re: Ramanujan:

You said: The communities that gave them shelter are guilty of criminal conspiracy. Blowing up their mosques is the LEAST we should do.

Inaccurate for several reasons. First of all, under law, a community cannot be guilty of a offense, only people can. That`s why, when, for example, someone commits a crime, you don`t put him and his parents (who brought him up) behind bars. Similarly, if someone is guilty of criminal conspiracy (and let us not forget that you don`t know who committed the crime) you do not and cannot punish the ``community`` to which that person belongs.

Secondly, coming to the question of punishment. Just like setting off a bomb in a temple full of devotees who have nothing to do with and have done nothing against the bomber is evil and abhorrent, blowing up a mosque for no better reason than the fact that your private investigation and assessment of the entire matter has shown that it`s the LEAST we can do is evil and abhorrent.

The punishment for the crime called ``waging war against the State`` is death or life imprisonment. Conspiracy to wage war against the State attracts life imprisonment.

Even if this heinous crime amounted only to criminal conspiracy, there`s a punishment for it and that punishment is not ``blow up the mosques``.


All right, you don`t want to picket the Legislature because ``India is not a democracy`` and because ``politics is run according to what the swing voters want.`` Would you then go out and express your views in public ? Say, march down M G Road (there`s bound to be one in your city somewhere (assuming you`re in India)) shouting slogans asking for mosques to be demolished. Or write an article and try and get it published, even in the Panchajanya. Do you have the courage to stand by the statements when lawful repercussions might fall on you?

In your post # 55 you asked ``YOU BETTER EXPLAIN TO ME WHY YOUR REACTION IS NOY(sic) KNEE JERK``

Well, here`s why:
1. I have not insulted you personally, but have commented on your statements.
2. I have laid out the grounds for my proposition using the law of the land, after conducting at least a modicum of research into the applicable law.
3. I have not called for violence against you, despite my revulsion for your statements.
4. I have not jumped to conclusions such as ``Community X or group Y is responsible for the bombings.``

Which brings me back to the point. I asked you whether you could explain to me why you were not guilty of several offences under the law of the land. You said ``
Ok, let me tell you. `` ``The communities that gave them shelter are guilty of criminal conspiracy. Blowing up their mosques is the LEAST we should do.``

Umm. And even if that were true, and I have shown why I think it to be not, saying that a community is guilty of criminal conspiracy in no way goes to show that you are not guilty of the various offenses. You have to show that your statement calling, among other things, for the blowing up of mosques is not a statement that

a) incites violence against a religious group
b) will hurt religious feelings
c) will promote enmity between Hindus and Muslims
d) is prejudicial to national integration

Aha_Snark

Re: # 57

HP:

If you think india will hand over srinagar to you just because of such blasts, then you just humouring yourself. India has long passed that threshold. Yes there will be anger, frustation (towards the political class and the ``peaceful`` religion) but thats all. 3 weeks down the line no one will even remember it.
it seems these days the naxalites are killing more than the jihadis.

with mulla mulayam and bibi sonia at helm ( mualana laloo and comrade surjit not far behind), fighting islamic terrorism is all joke.

let these fools you elect such politicians reap what they sowed.

with muslim appeasment transcending new heights (thanks to the Muslim Appeasement Ministry, headed by arjun singh) i see many more concerts to modism.....

#59 by Aha_Snark



[You said: The communities that gave them shelter are guilty of criminal conspiracy. Blowing up their mosques is the LEAST we should do.

Inaccurate for several reasons. First of all, under law, a community cannot be guilty of a offense, only people can. That`s why, when, for example, someone commits a crime, you don`t put him and his parents (who brought him up) behind bars. Similarly, if someone is guilty of criminal conspiracy (and let us not forget that you don`t know who committed the crime) you do not and cannot punish the ``community`` to which that person belongs. ]

It is interesting to see you ``secularists`` rush to defend the ``community`` as opposed to ``individuals within the community`` when it is Muslims who are the accused. When it is Hindus, you take out the big wide brush - VHP, RSS, Gujrati Hindus etc.

I did say that IF we know which community gave shelter and support to the terrorists.


[Secondly, coming to the question of punishment. Just like setting off a bomb in a temple full of devotees who have nothing to do with and have done nothing against the bomber is evil and abhorrent, blowing up a mosque for no better reason than the fact that your private investigation and assessment of the entire matter has shown that it`s the LEAST we can do is evil and abhorrent. ]

It is neither evil nor abhorrent. With the current ``saccular`` government in power, there would be another Bannerjee commission, and the report would indicate that the devotees accidentally set off their own bomb inside the temple. And tomorrow there would be another bomb in another Hindu place of worship, then another, and another - and ``saccularists`` would be sitting splitting hairs over Bannerjee commission reports. But never a bomb in a mosque. Oh no!

I say if any community harbors terrorists, blow up their goddamn mosque. That should send the right message.


[The punishment for the crime called ``waging war against the State`` is death or life imprisonment. Conspiracy to wage war against the State attracts life imprisonment.

Even if this heinous crime amounted only to criminal conspiracy, there`s a punishment for it and that punishment is not ``blow up the mosques``.]

Don`t worry, it would never come to that. ``Saccularists`` like you and Lalu would appoint another commission that would find the hindu devotees guilty of accidentally killing themselves.



[All right, you don`t want to picket the Legislature because ``India is not a democracy`` and because ``politics is run according to what the swing voters want.`` Would you then go out and express your views in public ? Say, march down M G Road (there`s bound to be one in your city somewhere (assuming you`re in India)) shouting slogans asking for mosques to be demolished. Or write an article and try and get it published, even in the Panchajanya. Do you have the courage to stand by the statements when lawful repercussions might fall on you? ]

If there is a bomb explosion in the Vatican, you`d see enough protesters all over the western world spouting various degrees of vitriol. In India, however, we are so cowed and afraid, that we are afraid to protest.


[In your post # 55 you asked ``YOU BETTER EXPLAIN TO ME WHY YOUR REACTION IS NOY(sic) KNEE JERK``

Well, here`s why:
1. I have not insulted you personally, but have commented on your statements.]

Yes, but in a knee-jerk manner.


[2. I have laid out the grounds for my proposition using the law of the land, after conducting at least a modicum of research into the applicable law. ]

Well, I am not a judge/lawyer, and was not quoting articles of law in my post. Just what should happen in our ``saccular`` world. Because Muslims always get justice - the Gujarat riots are being prosecuted, but Hindus never get any of the benefits of law and order.


[3. I have not called for violence against you, despite my revulsion for your statements. ]

And I have not called for violence against you either - see your knee-jerk reaction?


[4. I have not jumped to conclusions such as ``Community X or group Y is responsible for the bombings.`` ]

I said AFTER we find out the community which was harboring the terrorists. Now of course you would say that ANYBODY under the sun could be responsible. But that would somehow exclude your close family circle now, would it not? Now WHY would that be?


[Which brings me back to the point. I asked you whether you could explain to me why you were not guilty of several offences under the law of the land. You said ``
Ok, let me tell you. `` ``The communities that gave them shelter are guilty of criminal conspiracy. Blowing up their mosques is the LEAST we should do.``

Umm. And even if that were true, and I have shown why I think it to be not, saying that a community is guilty of criminal conspiracy in no way goes to show that you are not guilty of the various offenses. You have to show that your statement calling, among other things, for the blowing up of mosques is not a statement that

a) incites violence against a religious group
b) will hurt religious feelings
c) will promote enmity between Hindus and Muslims
d) is prejudicial to national integration ]


Do you think you could prosecute me for posting what I did in any court of law?

And if you couldn`t, I would not be doing anything illegal now, would I?

And the interesting thing here is how you have managed to turn the focus ENTIRELY AWAY from your community, and npw we are talking here about how I am the one who is guilty.

Strange, isn`t it, how the Ummah operates?

I condemn this attack on the Hindoo temple. These kinds of terrorist attacks show the cowardly nature of the attackers, and the Indian government must take the severest action on those who perform these violent acts. Places of worship must not be targeted for attacks by anybody, no matter what their grievances are.

#56 by UmerMurtaza

[What I`m saying is that it could by anyone, and that includes the RSS but it also includes the ISI. We`ll never know.]


How about the Gujarat riots? Who do you think was behind that?

Suddenly you are ABSOLUTELY SURE that it was the RSS/VHP and Modi. Not maybe the ISI, or anybody else.

Funny, isn`t it, how the mind works?

Re: # 59
Good Job Beej Bhaiyya,
How many more aliases do you need to get your point across?
There is lot more you can do in Bihar for poor people than on Chowk.