In the Dying Light

``why go elsewhere to look at OBL, just look at yourself.``(Anil)

indeed Anil -- Chowk is a mirror for a lot of OBL in us..........and among us...

Re: # 126

Ramanujam:

Why should someone not use ``intellectual capital`` that is driving knowledge revolution? How else will you categorize it?

Allright ``Leftist - Rightist Nosense `` may be a stronger phase to use.

Are you afraid to use ``fundamentalism`` because it encompasses more than muslim jihadists?

``Crusaders`` is a historical fact that did happen, I simply stated this fact here. Why you have a problem with it?

Why do you have problem when I express my views that ``fundamentalism is regressive``? If you have alternate views that demonstrate that fundamentalism is progressive, please tell me more about these facts. I am very keen to know and open to learning.

Yes, I do question many things, not only the Koran, whether man is the God`s best creation or God is the best imagination of man``, and validity of hindutva as a yard stick of hinduness of a person, etc. etc.

Please explain why your definition of Leftist - Rightist is not selfish, self-serving and egotistical? If Advani, and Singhal (VHP) says they are not like you, then are they leftist by your definition?

If Bajrang Dal does not agree with your solutions to India`s problems, and therefore, they are not like you, then are they leftist?

Anil Kapuria

Re: # 123

Rsridhar`s post:

Obviously you do not follow, Autobiography of a Yogi. Just look at your filthy language you use, and the rage that you get in, when you have nothing substantial to add. BTW, I read this book and Krishnamurthy`s book, probably before you were out of college.

For your information, faith and technology are not mutually exclusive. Unless you want to create your own cult on this basis.

Belief (or faith as you call) is limited, and must remain limited to a believer / faithful`s mind space. This is what I believe and practice. Therefore, I have a belief system for myself. Please educate yourself, go and read my postings on this subject elsewhere on Chowk, if you want to know my belief system.

Otherwise why go elsewhere to look at OBL, just look at yourself. Your verbal abuses is your violence. You get into this rage in a flash. Just cool down Rsridhar. Please read and understand others viewpoints. You may learn something, and grow a little. Name throwing of books and name calling is not the way to debate.

You and Beharam are similar in this regard, and I do not wish to talk to either of you. I had previously made it clear to both of you.

I am quite at peace with myself, and do express myself freely, without being terrorized by verbal terrorists. Keep such terrorism to yourself, if you next time want to interact with me.

Otherwise please take a deep breath when you have an urge to talk to me.

Anil Kapuria

Re: # 113

``That is it, sir.. The link between man & god is FAITH. That is all that keeps things moving & alive.

That young man was ALBERT EINSTEIN ``(Farzana)

Farzana did you know that wife beater had failed his language exam......:)

``Why does a young Muslim man, in the prime of life, with a full life ahead, go and blow himself up?`` she asked. ``In our countries, religion is the sole source of education and is the only spring from which that terrorist drank until his thirst was quenched.``

``The clash we are witnessing around the world is not a clash of religions or a clash of civilizations,`` ``It is a clash between two opposites, between two eras. It is a clash between a mentality that belongs to the Middle Ages and another mentality that belongs to the 21st century. It is a clash between civilization and backwardness, between the civilized and the primitive, between barbarity and rationality.``(Dr. Mrs. Wafa Sultan, a Syrian Psychiatrist on Al Jazeera)

Dr. Sultan is now under death threats from Middle East Muslim Clergy -- one of them saying that what she has done is even worse than the Danish cartoonists -- she is an apostate and must be put to death.

#127

Hamidm Mian, I raised the question in jest and have no doubt where you stand on issues.

However, it is better to look for positives - some of these positions bring out the ``doctor`` in you! Where would this site be without some of your prescriptions?!

Now you can return to your weekly vacuum cleaning!

Re: # 125

bj,

...... unfortunatley, since you are a gandhian celibate i cannot prescribe the same `adrak` for you ..........

........ i am simply tired of folks like arjun, rsridhar, masadi and urstruly and hope that natural selection (or god) will do its job and future generations will be spared the agony ............ keeping that in mind, i shouldn`t be prescribing sex, should i? .......... hopefully they will all turn gandhian like you ........

#116 by anil


[Please do not use lables like left or right.]

Ok. But only if you stop using labels like the following:


``These are relics of cold war, are outdated and mean little in the knowledge and global economic society. Where the advantage comes not from the machinery or oil, but from intellectual capital. The Wall Street, Detriot, Silicon Valley, and even world class educational institutions and research centers of excellence will not be located in one place, as physical location will not limit the access to what they impart. One could be in Bangalore to get Stanford education, or in Silicon Valley to get IIM-Bangalore education. Intellectual capital and its application and benefits can be delivered from anywhere to anywhere. National boundaries are meaningless, therefore the capitalism will get redefined, however it fundamentals - jobs, capital and profits will remain still be the fundation.

Also, neither there is, nor there would ever be french court where people on the left side of the king could be called leftists, and on the right side could be called the rightists. The sooner we get over this left - right nosense the better it is to grow.

I would even go onto say that religion beyond one`s mind space would have very little impact. Once rest of the world is done with defeating Islamic fundamentalism, as I believe it will, the period that will follow, unlike the crusaders, will not replace it with another form of religious fundamentalism. When you study fundamentalism closely, you will notice, whether it is of Christianity, Hindutva, or Islamic kind, that fundamentalism is regressive in nature which in the past thrieved in naturally isolated communities and on delivering heavily modulated messages to convert others. This task was done in tandem by military and missionaries, monks, and mullahs. ``



[As we move from today into future, we enter into a period of naturally open communication, and visualization of live images and video. These are completely opposite to the fertile grounds of fundamentalism.]

No no no no. Believe me, those fundamentalists are hitting those porn sites too. I tell you they are ``visualizing`` ``live images and video`` like anything. I heard that one 9/11 attacker was into ``Jennycam`` or something quite racy. :)


[Therefore, fundamentalism cannot survive in such times. No one will be able to say and expect people to blindly follow that dead Christ came to life after three days 2,000 years ago, or Mohammad got Allahs words in a cave 1,400 years ago, and Hanuman flew and brought the entire mountain carrying herbal medicine for dying Laxman thousands years ago. Such belief systems will be heavily questioned and discarded for new set of belief and faith systems.]

Now you are going to have Tahmed Mullah on your a$$. Are you questioning the authenticity of the Koran? Aethist! Nitwit! Hindoo! :)


[Terrorism has no label. It is not leftist or rightist. One can no longer define what is leftist or rightist. Now a days, it is a mere propoganda for politicians to fool certain types of people to gain following. This propaganda has fooled you; or may be you truly have a definition of the leftist and the rightist for the modern times. In case of the latter, I would certainly love to know and learn more, I always learn new things.]

I can. Ask me.

Leftist - commie pinkos.

Rightist - those who are right. Like me. :)



[I probably know, understand, believe and practicw capitalism more than you. ]


Really? That`s very cool.. How does one ``practice`` capitalism? Do you do it every day? In the morning or in the evening? Is that a label - ``Capitalism``?

:)

#122 Hamidm Mian,

Which PART of #120 was your interact in response to? (It sounded like a ``low blow`` to me!)

The thesis Sridhar presented in #120 reads to me as follows:

``Carving up Pakistan - as we currently know it as a political entity - is in the interests of India - therefore India should take its `principled` stand and extend its `moral and diplomatic` support to such an effort (apparently, the various Pakistani governments have been trying to do it solo and are making a mess of this `noble` cause!)``

I believe you should response to his thesis at hand - not make wisecracks.

Also, you should stop trying to apply your simplistic single solution to ALL the problems of this world.

(I mean the ``adrak``, of course!)

Re: # 118

``(1) Where have some of the most hateful forms of the religion been born?, and (2) who have been among the most rabid promoters of these supremacist and violent doctrines worldwide? We may not want to stomach them, but the answers are: (1) right here in India, on our own soil, and (2) by Indians - our neighbors and day-to-day friends, living along side with us. For those who like such things, one can even invent a name for this pattern - Zakir Naik phenomenon. ``


Will you please elaborate?

re: Anil`s post
(Therefore, fundamentalism cannot survive in such times. No one will be able to say and expect people to blindly follow that dead Christ came to life after three days 2,000 years ago, or Mohammad got Allahs words in a cave 1,400 years ago, and Hanuman flew and brought the entire mountain carrying herbal medicine for dying Laxman thousands years ago. Such belief systems will be heavily questioned and discarded for new set of belief and faith systems.)
There is something called faith.
Do not confuse faith with technology. Both can perfectly thrive together.
I work with latest technology in my profession taking care of extremely premature babies. That does not mean i do not believe Hanuman flew and brought Sanjeevani.
Keep your trash to yourself.
You are full of bull.
Besides, if u have the intellectual capacity (which i doubt u do), read The Autobiography of a Yogi. Science and faith are combined perfectly in that book. There is no confusion. If people like u do not understand certain things, it does not automatically mean those things did not happen. May be Science has not developed enough to understand them well at present and may develop in future. There is always that possibility.
Nobody doubts that Mohammed received divine message in a cave. I have been critical of the book mainly because Md (or the people who followed him) seem to have juxtaposed their own egos within that message. Muslim holy book has very good things mixed with bad things which make me wonder if somebody did not tamper with the original message.
Same with miracles of Christ. Present day science cannot explain them but they are well explained in the book that i mentioned. It is good to be a sceptic but also keep an open mind to all possibilities. Even 100 years ago, flying in air would be considered a miracle but we are doing it routinely now. Miracle is only when it can`t be explained.
Sridhar

Re: # 120

rsridhar,

......... a long time ago i had suggested you should try your hand (no pun intended) at sex ........ you might find it more gratifying :)

re: Ramanujam`s post
(Those people who planted the bombs might have been Pakistanis, but they had local help, as happens ALWAYS.)
Or Kashmiris brought from outside with hope of a big reward and solution to the problem! There are so many gullible people in India. Are u sure a poor hindu cannot be bought to do this job?
That is why institutions are so important. Institutons that can look at this without prejudice and bring the terrorists to justice. There are some bad IMs but not all are bad. The point is: who is behind all this. Neutralize that person/agency and u have solved the problem.
Let us not forget that India`s own record is not good. Indian police is corrupt. So are her politicians, bureacrats. Terrorists do this with impunity because India`s underbelly is soft.
Sridhar

re:#90 by kaalchakra
For those detractors who want some dramatic response from India, i would say take a look at the history.
India has to do nothing and Pak keeps digging its own grave. Pakistan, by its own folly and hateful ideology, has been on the path of self-destruction for quite sometime now.
To justify its existence as an Islamic State, it had to constantly prove it is better than India. This lead to Operation Gibraltor which sowed the seeds of 1971 war and eventual dismemberment of the country.
What did India do? Zilch. It did respond to defend itself in 1971 and help liberate Bangladesh but it did nothing dramatic there. It did not impose the war. War was Pak`s own folly, following discrimination against the Bangla population on its east wing.
Then started this low scale terrorism in Kashmir. This is now boomeranging on the nation state. Baluchistan is burning. There is Shia Sunni rift. People are disenchanted with the military. And most importantly, US is beginnig to understand the dubious role of Mushy in his dealings with US army.
It is important to understand why Paki terrorists have shifted their venue outside Kashmir. India has secured the LOC so well that infiltration is down to a minimum. US and other agencies are monitoring the LOC closely for any infiltration. Kashmir insurgency is down to a manageable level. Hence, ISI with a nod from Army brass, has decided to go for soft targets and try and create mayheim in India.
This is going to be hard to defend. What should India do?
On a short term basis India should:
1. monitor closely all the major religious places of worship including the mosques. Pak terrorists may this time strike at a mosque and IMs may think hindus are retaliating. Nothing could be worse.
2. monitor all the high tech areas, financial institutions, institutions of repute like IITs, IIMs, etc
3. gather information about the previous blasts and make public the name of culprits and their connection to Pakistan, if any.
4. Share intelligence with US on a continuous basis.
Long term plan:
It is clear to most Indians that existence of Pakistan at its present form is not in India`s interest. India should strive to do ``another 1971`` on this apolegy of a nation.
1. Give back to Pakis 10 times what we get. Pak is a state that is withering away and this should not be so difficult. One can make use of Shia-sunni rift, disenchantment with Punjabis among minorities etc.
2. Mobilize army in Afghanistan as a legitimate way of defending India`s interest. US has given the go ahead in managing democracy in Afghanistan. I see this as a green signal to take over command of various India-built structures that are prone to terrorist attacks. For eg the Indira Gandhi Hospital in Kabul, the parliament, the Indian embassies. Afghanistan needs a sizeable Indian army to defend it.
3. Having mobilized the army, open a second front from the Afghanistan side. Train Afghans to enter Pakistan from that border to defend the border as needed.
4. Mobilize international opinion against Pakistan and urge US to label Pak as a terrorist nation.
I think the day is not far away when 4. will happen.
Once that happens, there should be a joint US-India-Israel action to neutralize Pak nuclear facilities. Pakistan should be carved up the way Yugoslavia was. Sindh can be granted independence and may join India if it wishes to. Baluchistan would be an independent entity. NWFP will go with Afghanistan and Punjab (Paki) will alone remain. It can call itself Pakistan or anything else but it would not matter.
Sridhar

re:#113 by FarzanaVersey
I don`t know who lives in St Louis. I certainly don`t.
Yes, faith is the proof that God exists and we all know it.
Einstein demonstrated it nicely even as a student. Which is why they say he was a genius.
PM Disraeli once asked his minister: what is the proof that God exists?
Latter`s answer was: The Jew.
He too was talking about faith.
A student asked his Zen master (who was well known for teaching thr` dramatic effect): if God exists master, why can`t we see him?
Zen master slapped him hard on his cheek.
``Master``, said the student incredulously, ``why did u slap me?``
Master said:``why, what happened?``
Student said: ``it hurts``
Master: ``show me the hurt``
Student: ``i can only feel it; i can`t show it to u``
Master said triumphantly`` that is how God is; you can feel Him but u can`t see Him``
I am sure the student wished his Master was less dramatic!
Sridhar

I don`t see any wisdom in differentiating between Indian Muslims and Pakistani Muslims. That is, any more than one would between any other group of Indians and Pakistanis.

We have to ultimately focus on IDEAS. On individuals who adhere to, promote, and help sustain certain horrendous ideas.

Such a person could be Indian, Pakistani, Hindu or Muslim. It does not matter whether such a person is friendly or unfriendly, wears a suit or not, is religious or irreligious and male or female.

On the other hand, neither Ballukhan nor teshah pose a threat to anyone - irrespective of the countries they belong to.

Indian/Pakistani business is a red herring. It means nothing.

---

If that seems contraintuitive, let`s ask ourselves two simple questions, focusing for a moment only on Islam: (1) Where have some of the most hateful forms of the religion been born?, and (2) who have been among the most rabid promoters of these supremacist and violent doctrines worldwide? We may not want to stomach them, but the answers are: (1) right here in India, on our own soil, and (2) by Indians - our neighbors and day-to-day friends, living along side with us. For those who like such things, one can even invent a name for this pattern - Zakir Naik phenomenon.