Rifts, Fissures, Cracks, Gaping Holes

Ref bbabu #92

[`` Perhaps what we have been conducting in India is an experiment in Eugenics. For thousands of years, we have been breeding brains with brains and we end up with two TamBrahms with Nobel Prizes. We also have been breeding cretins because we don`t kill people with mental deficiencies. It is just that the cretins have been forced to marry other cretins. Thus we have Soysauce and Masanamuthu representing the lowest and highest intelligence possible among congenital idiots. For someone like you with your liberal leanings, this might be hard to digest. ``

2 Nobel Prizes is measily compared to 100+ by Jews.]

All the Nobel Prizes in Physics since about 1950 have been awarded for ``Big Science`` requiring hundreds of millions, if not billions, of dollars of equipment. Check how many Nobels have gone to physicists working at Stanford Linear Accelerator Center, CERN, and the various National labs in the US.

The two TamBrahms got their Nobel Prizes with no funding whatsoever. CV Raman was working in his lab and dicovered the Raman Effect with a simple experiment. Prof. Chandrasekhar developed his theory on black holes during his voyage from India to England.

This of course escapes your OBC brain.

[To say that genetics is the sole determinant of intelligence and achievement in the offspring is quite silly.]

Then caste has no influence on intelligence and so you need no quotas. On the other hand, if you demand quotas, you are admitting that you are born a cretin due to family history.

Ref swarrier #90

So let me bring to your attention the recent incident in admission to the MD program in Indian medical colleges.

The ``intelligent`` BC/MBC/OBC/SC/ST MBBS graduates who wanted to pursue their MD smuggled in a pen-sized optical scanner. They scanned the examination paper and sent out the scanner. A bunch of ``intelligent`` BC/MBC/OBC/SC/ST doctors sitting in a nearby hotel room downloaded the questions from the scanner into a computer, looked up the answers from textbooks and sent SMS messages on cell phones to candidates taking the exam. The racket was discovered when folks who had flunked the exam last year scored the top 10 ranks this time. In short order, the police have arrested the exam-takers and their accomplices (who included some medical college professors too!)

How do I know that not a single brahmin was involved in this? Easy; not a single brahmin has been admitted to medical colleges in Tamil Nadu for the last 40 years.... well. not quite, but the brahmins who had to move the Supreme Court to get into the medical college don`t count because the justices agreed that they were better qualified than the BC/OBC/MBC/SC/ST crowd.

So much for trying to make silk purses out of sows` ears or doctors out of goatherds.

You got anything to say about this?

I don`t think so.

Ref swarrier #90

[You can`t stand discrimination for 55 years, but is it okay to discriminate against people for over a millenium and then be vituperative about them?]

What was the discrimination against non-Brahmins? That they were not allowed to attend Veda classes for 3000 years. Are these fcukers clamoring to get into schools where the Vedas are being taught?

[I`ve known idiot Brahmins , there is no reason why they should profit over somebody better qualified.]

But that idiot brahmin is willing to compete and lose on a level footing. It is your ``intelligent`` BC/MBC/OBC/SC/ST that demands special privileges and reservations.

If they don`t want to compete on a level playing field, then they are condemned to wear the label ``cretin``.

Ref asli-Masanamuthu #94

[When schooling changed over from the gurukul system to the western method of imparting secular education in a neutral setting, brahmins also made the switch, since they were pretty much the only ones involved in the gurukul system.]

U. V. Swaminatha Iyer recounts in his autobiography that his uncle was a 5th generation Tamil teacher.

If we brahmins are all migrants to Tamil Nadu, what kept you Masanamuthus from formally learning your own mother tongue?

[This gave them a head start when it came to acquiring useful, modern knowledge. It was nothing more than happenstance.]

If so, then you guys were not disadvantaged because the brahmins refused to teach you the Vedas, right? So, exactly what was your disadvantage except your lack of brains and your refusal to learn?

[Even tho as a person of brahmin parentage, i have been at the wrong end of the reservation system, i heartily endorse the quota system.]

I told you that the only way you could continue to support your untenable position was to call yourself a brahmin.

You have done that for the second time now.

Not that I am deceived.

But it shows how little of the grey matter you have in your cranium.

Re: # 94 soy
[....Even tho as a person of brahmin parentage, i have been at the wrong end of the reservation system, i heartily endorse the quota system...]

And you are not alone... in fact - many progressive people who also ``heartily endorse the quota system`` are all higher-caste people..... everybody realizes the scale is loaded against low-caste people and have to balanced one way or the other....

But the question is: where is the ``creamy layer`` in this struggle? ...why is he still claiming the privilege?... why doesn`t he voluntarily give-up his privilege in favor of another fellow-dalit?.... why is the big bad brahmin always making all the sacrifices to balance the scale?.....

time has come to review the situation.... in the current form - it doesn`t solve anything - on the contrary, it makes it worse - the creamy layer gets the lion`s share while they least deserve it....

Quota system should be completely based on the current family economic condition.... if you are poor - you get a boost - no matter what caste you belong to.... since many dalits are poor - they get automatically included....

Of course - definition and certification of who is poor have to be very strictly implemented - so that crafty people don`t find loop holes to get in....

Re: # 93 jang
[...here is why indians are not good at bulding cars. its because the ``knowledgable`` brahmins were averse to doing any real work for at least a millenium, all the toil done by those without any access to knowledge. that is the reason a sickle or a plough in india NEVER changed since the bronze age.....]

Makes sense... we all know bad brahmins kept a monpoly on education and prevented others from it..... but one thing I never understood is - why didn`t these other guys start their own schools and system of education?.... the brahmin was the mean, bad guy who didn`t allow other castes to his school - all that other caste people had to do was open a school in his own village or home and get going from there....

I mean - we are talking about thousands of years here..... over thousands of years, the big bad brahmin kept doing this blatant discrimination on the other castes .... so what were other caste guys thinking?.... from all acoounts - they were in a majority - had physical power [ as opposed to the fat cat brahmin nerds ] .... who was going to stop them if they opened their own school?.....

I can talk about my own caste [OBC] - in by gone days, my caste folks used to be temple builders, civil engineers if you will - their achievements are there for all to see - Puri temple, konark temple and bunch of others... but these guys never put anything on paper - no community-wise kowledge transfer - no institionlized learning, no plans for future generations - these guys had money, fame, patronage - but they did nothing to make sure their art/craft/skills stay alive.... now, all they do is make cabinets....

You can`t blame this on brahmins.... So harimau has a point - brahmin did bad things, for sure - but other people had options.... but they never excercised their options... even now - after 60 years of affirmative action - there is a substantial creamy layer of ``dalits`` who have money, power - what exactly are these folks doing to get their other folks out of the poverty?... where are the dalit sponsored schools, co-operatives, hospitals, community help centers?....

I mean - how long can you blame it on harimau`s grand poppy?....

every person should have to right to lead his own life

``#66 by sanatani on March 22, 2006 2:43am PT
Re: # 54

Abe Stuka,

Rashtravadi Narendrabhai Modi ko opoose kar ke commie ka rona mat ro? Pricks like u r any day a bigger problem than the commie. See my interact to DM. When are u and ur APNA types` taking Train to Pakistan (one way, no return ticket and surrender passport at the border).

Absolutely no Regards
Sanatani``

Who is this idiot? Is India his father`s property that he tells people to gove up their passports???

#95 reva315

Thanks for ending on a positive note. It would be even better if you could point to specific resources, organizations, individuals who are active in the area of education. Success stories, horror stories, so-so stories could also be shared. We all know that the state of mass education in india is a disgrace for so many reasons; the question is how to change it.

I was very pleased to see a ``giving portal`` go online. The organizations are selected for meeting certain standards of professionalism and with some interaction with the donor supported. The URL is:

http://www.giveindia.org/give/common/HomePageAction.do

I am allergic to ``theoreticians`` who waste time explaining how the brahmins were awful, the mughals were beasts, its all the fault of the british, only troskyist-marxist-leninism will help etc. This is pure bakwaas. The real question is how to change things TODAY and TOMORROW.

#96 ``In schools across India, rote learning is the order of the day.``

this is a brahmin trait..they were big on learning scriptures and shlokas by the rote, since they did not want to write it down. even now you see the nri kids muggin up shlokas without understanding anything. please take it up with your aiyar brother, thanks.

re: Revathy # 95

That was a good post. Both its meaning and its purpose were clear.

re:#94 by soysauce
(When schooling changed over from the gurukul system to the western method of imparting secular education in a neutral setting, brahmins also made the switch, since they were pretty much the only ones involved in the gurukul system.)
India`s ancient Gurukula was dependent on endowment from kings who were kshatriyas (ruling class). They sent their children to these schools. It was a kind of residential system where students lived with their teacher and learnt whatever the teacher taught. Kshatriyas far outnumbered the brahmins.
The education was free. Children of royalty mingled with others. Not a perfect set up by any means but the best that could be conceived in those times.
AFAIK, only the shudras were not allowed.
Brahmins were the teachers, educators, writers, intellectuals. Their professsion demanded that they be all that just as kshatriyas were expected to take up arms and fight when needed. When British came, they saw no reason to rock the boat and continued with the system where brahmins automatically came to serve them in important positions by virtue of their vocation.
Much has changed since India`s independence. India has the biggest affirmative action (aka reservation) in place and benefits lower classes directly. That it celebrates mediocrity and penalises merit is another matter.
Sridhar

re:#65 by einsteinwallah
In schools across India, rote learning is the order of the day. The emphasis is on passing exams and not learning skills. Also, there is no emphasis on critical thinking and problem solving.
I work with a Practice Group in US. All my colleagues are white americans. One of my colleague`s daugher is in 6th or 7th grade and she was required to take up a 1 year project about a country. She took up India. This means, she gets to collect all she knows about India: its various facets like geography, language, culture etc and present the info periodically to the class. It is impressive to say the least. Such a project encourages a kid to research and learn about another nation`s culture and broaden one`s horizon. How much more useful this is than rote learning from a book about India!
Sridhar

There is no one answer to all these complex questions. Caste and its subtext, discrimination against other humans, will exist in one form or another for ever, But if each one of us who inveighs against society and fellow-contributors to Chowk(!), can contribute time to teach, send one child from a poor family to school, or help with nutrition, hygiene, uniforms, books, fees, it can make an immense difference. We are so fond of yelling insults at each other, (just take the responses to this article), we lose sight of the main picture.
The worst thing is to say,``I``m fine, and me and mine are fine, I couldn`t care less what happens to the rest!``
Thanks for all the passionate replies. Get people moving!
Revathy

#90 speaking of idiot brahmins, harimau is an excellent example.

When schooling changed over from the gurukul system to the western method of imparting secular education in a neutral setting, brahmins also made the switch, since they were pretty much the only ones involved in the gurukul system. This gave them a head start when it came to acquiring useful, modern knowledge. It was nothing more than happenstance.
As Jang alludes, our administrative system has been staffed with high castes, and especially brahmins starting from the british era. If you think the country is screwed up, blame it on the brahmins then.
I have known lots of idiot brahmins who got cushy jobs because they had vital connections - someone knew someone else who was in a secretariat in dilli and the person gets a helping hand, gets a few promotions like clockwork and the cycle starts over with him helping someone else. Not surprisingly, the connections are caste related.
What the reservation system attempts to do is break these connections and restore some semblance of equal opportunity. You have to swing the other way a little to make for all the advantages that the current set enjoys.
Even tho as a person of brahmin parentage, i have been at the wrong end of the reservation system, i heartily endorse the quota system. It has its flaws and it needs to be tweaked for sure, but that it is there sends a strong message to the deprived castes that there is some hope. It may not transpire at the end, but it`s better than nothing.

here is why indians are not good at bulding cars. its because the ``knowledgable`` brahmins were averse to doing any real work for at least a millenium, all the toil done by those without any access to knowledge. that is the reason a sickle or a plough in india NEVER changed since the bronze age..why? the brahmin was busy reading the four vedas and cooking up yet another purana or some cock-n-bull puja to extract alms.

one good caste brahmin of most excellent rigvedi lineage, experet in sandhya, and of Vasishta gotra (which is offcourse a premier gotra) was visiting and tried helping me remove some snow on the driveway. about 3 1/2 minutes into the excercise he started wondering how snow removal tools can be improved, method can be modified, and came up with a large number of possible alternatives such as 1) a special puja, 2) a canopy for the driveway to keep snow off 3) a heating system and so forth.

offcourse he had the choice of such lateral thinking..over time perhaps he would have improved the shovel (or called the plough-guy). a peasant in a stratified caste is told to do his job just like his daddy did or else..he never had the benefit of education which he could perhaps use in this task.

QED its the brahmins fault. and any case, iyengars are fairer than iyers.

harimau #88

`` Has one useful theory, invention or medical procedure come from these brain-dead idiots? What have they done with their so-called ``education`` which is nothing but a degree for prancing around on a college campus and ogling women? ``

Large number of Indian engineers are non-Brahmin. The percentage of OBC/SC/ST engineers is low. What else do you expect ? They moved into knowledge profession one generation ago.

`` The ONLY lower-caste that does a good job of its profession today is the caste of barbers. If the barber doesn`t do a good job, the customer doesn`t leave until he is satisfied with his haircut. Look at the pathetic buildings that these so-called civil engineers build in India. The fcukers have to get the Japanese to build a new bridge across the Jamuna in Delhi. Even the Metro in Delhi has to be built with Japanese help and Korean trains. Korea was devastated -- reduced to a rubble -- during the Korean War and they are ahead of India in every technology. Why? Because they do not have reservations for the Brain-Dead in Korea, that is why. ``

Most of the food you eat is grown and harvested entirely by non-Brahmins. They do a decent job growing food.

`` With their degrees in automobile engineering, are they capable of building one frikking car? No. We have the Koreans building cars in India. It proves that the lower castes are good only for manual labor and are incapable of using what passes for their brain. ``

There are plenty of good Brahmin engineers. Have they built a car ? If brahmin engineers are so good why sign a deal with USA to get nuclear technology ? There has been 20% reservation in Central government jobs until 1990. It was not like all of those merit based engineers achieved much.

`` Perhaps what we have been conducting in India is an experiment in Eugenics. For thousands of years, we have been breeding brains with brains and we end up with two TamBrahms with Nobel Prizes. We also have been breeding cretins because we don`t kill people with mental deficiencies. It is just that the cretins have been forced to marry other cretins. Thus we have Soysauce and Masanamuthu representing the lowest and highest intelligence possible among congenital idiots. For someone like you with your liberal leanings, this might be hard to digest. ``

2 Nobel Prizes is measily compared to 100+ by Jews. To say that genetics is the sole determinant of intelligence and achievement in the offspring is quite silly.

`` Actually, compare dogs. We now have about 200 breeds of dogs world-wide, all of which are descended from just one kind of dog. It is the repeated cross-breeding and isolation of certain characteristics that gives us the bloodhound that has a great sense of smell, a Labrador Retriever that is good for assisting humans with disabilities or an Afghan hound that is built for speed. If you can agree that it is scientifically possible to breed specific characteristics into dogs, why should it surprise you to find that it is possible to breed specific characteristics into human beings? ``

Any scientist with a ounce of morality/ethics would never consent to your insane theories.

`` Yes. Let them take a competitive entrance examination if you think intelligence is due to nature, not nurture. If you think intelligence is due to nurture not nature, 55+ years of mollycoddling these idiots have proved that thesis wrong. You and the Commies would want 3,000 years of reservations and that would set India behind Saudi Arabia.``

To say Indian entrance examination is an accurate predictor of intelligence is a joke. Tell me there is no other practical way to determine admissions. I will buy it.

I understand why Tamil Brahmins go off the edge when it comes to reservation. Large number of average BC/OBC engineers has kept Tamilnadu and Bangalore a dominant player in the IT industry. I do not need a rocket scientist sitting at a help desk.

harimau, in the sarkari organizations, even with reservations upper-caster are at least 50%. so the ``failure`` blame has to go there too.

Harimau
William Shockley had the same ideas that you propound. But keeping people suppressed for a 1000 years doesn`t help their cause either does it?
You can`t stand discrimination for 55 years, but is it okay to discriminate against people for over a millenium and then be vituperative about them?
I`ve known idiot Brahmins , there is no reason why they should profit over somebody better qualified.
I don`t like reservations either. But a little bit may be necessary, if but to open the door for the rest.

dost-mittar #71

`` The root of the problem is the lack of attention paid to primary schooling. This is where resources have to be diverted. And it is not just a question of monetary resources; as soyasauce pointed out, there is a lot of corruption in government run schools. The lure of private tutoring has had a very serious effect on the quality of teaching in regular schools. Perhaps, a radical solution such as providing vouchers to poor parents which they can use in any school of their choice should be considered. ``

Vouchers can help.

Parental support, overall social climate and economic mobility play a bigger role than reservations.

Ref avkrishna #84

[I did not get you here. Can you elaborate in detail about what you mean by your statement?]

Has one useful theory, invention or medical procedure come from these brain-dead idiots? What have they done with their so-called ``education`` which is nothing but a degree for prancing around on a college campus and ogling women?

The ONLY lower-caste that does a good job of its profession today is the caste of barbers. If the barber doesn`t do a good job, the customer doesn`t leave until he is satisfied with his haircut. Look at the pathetic buildings that these so-called civil engineers build in India. The fcukers have to get the Japanese to build a new bridge across the Jamuna in Delhi. Even the Metro in Delhi has to be built with Japanese help and Korean trains. Korea was devastated -- reduced to a rubble -- during the Korean War and they are ahead of India in every technology. Why? Because they do not have reservations for the Brain-Dead in Korea, that is why.

With their degrees in automobile engineering, are they capable of building one frikking car? No. We have the Koreans building cars in India. It proves that the lower castes are good only for manual labor and are incapable of using what passes for their brain.

Perhaps what we have been conducting in India is an experiment in Eugenics. For thousands of years, we have been breeding brains with brains and we end up with two TamBrahms with Nobel Prizes. We also have been breeding cretins because we don`t kill people with mental deficiencies. It is just that the cretins have been forced to marry other cretins. Thus we have Soysauce and Masanamuthu representing the lowest and highest intelligence possible among congenital idiots. For someone like you with your liberal leanings, this might be hard to digest.

Actually, compare dogs. We now have about 200 breeds of dogs world-wide, all of which are descended from just one kind of dog. It is the repeated cross-breeding and isolation of certain characteristics that gives us the bloodhound that has a great sense of smell, a Labrador Retriever that is good for assisting humans with disabilities or an Afghan hound that is built for speed. If you can agree that it is scientifically possible to breed specific characteristics into dogs, why should it surprise you to find that it is possible to breed specific characteristics into human beings?

[Are you saying that Reservations are not needed at all??]

Yes. Let them take a competitive entrance examination if you think intelligence is due to nature, not nurture. If you think intelligence is due to nurture not nature, 55+ years of mollycoddling these idiots have proved that thesis wrong. You and the Commies would want 3,000 years of reservations and that would set India behind Saudi Arabia.

#85 please show some respect to the old man. Thank you.

Here is an expose of the commies - in the recent ``office of profit`` case - in which MPs holding such offices have been kiecked or resigned - including Sonia Gandhi.... Commies from bengal top the list...

http://ia.rediff.com/news/2006/mar/23profit4.htm?q=tp&file=.htm

In all about 62 MPs are said to be in various posts, most of them from the Left in West Bengal, which Trinamul Congress leader Mamta Banerjee has sought to exploit politically ahead of the assembly polls in the state.

harimau:

LOL at your responses.. Sorry, I takeback my LOL..
Take my hand-kerchief and wipe off the tears..

Re: # 82

I did not get you here. Can you elaborate in detail about what you mean by your statement?

Are you saying that Reservations are not needed at all??

Thanks,

Take a look at what some farmers did in Pune.

Compare that to Manmohan Singh`s talk that he would make Bombay into another Shanghai and the Commies` determination to keep India down.

As far as I am concerned, the SC/ST/BC/MBC/OBC masanamuthus can cry buckets that with their bogus degrees in architecture and tonn planning, they have not come up with one township like Magarpatta.

http://specials.rediff.com/money/2006/mar/22sld1.htm

Ref avkrishna #81

[What you have given me an anecdotal evidence of two families you knew. Anecdotes does not make a trend esp. when you have other, more poweful evidence in hand.]

The only more powerful evidence we have is that the BC/MBC/OBC/SC/ST cannot and will not compete on an equal footing.

Re: # 80

What you have given me an anecdotal evidence of two families you knew. Anecdotes does not make a trend esp. when you have other, more poweful evidence in hand.

I think if we consider the following statistics, we will get a better idea:

1) % of admissions in any premier institutions (say IITs) by their family background in terms of education

2) % of Reserved seats for Backward castes taken by `Creamy Layer` children

Thanks,
Avkrishna

Ref avkrishna #78

[What I meant by this is that the more educated the parents are, the more educated the children are likely to be. Not due to genetics, but due to a different nurturing environment where education is stressed, the awareness of different possibilities, financial means to secure these etc.

Do you disagree?]

Yes, I do.

I know of a TamBrahm family which lived in the US for a long time. The father was an executive with a large American company. The mother, though a homemaker, was active in Indian cultural affairs. Lived in the best suburb with excellent schools. Both were educated with college degrees and pedigrees up the wazoo.

Their kids dropped out of high school. One of them started working as a check-out clerk in a grocery store.

In the case of another family, the kid became a dope peddler and is spending life in prison.

What have you got to say about these? What disadvantages did these kids face for them to become what they are?

#72 MOHAR11


Q: Besides the predictable answer of infrastructure, what are India`s problem areas?
A: Ideology. Socialism is still ingrained in the minds of many in India.....

No. I dont think that socialistic ideology is one of India`s problem. Even you leave aside Left Parties( even they are changing now albeit slowly), there overall perception is that the government should leave as many areas as possible and private sector should be given free hand to run the country. The government should only control Defence, Currency and Foreign affairs and act as a regulator in the market.

The real problem is our mind-set. We cannot think that we can also be one of the great countries of the world. Our cities can be as good as anywhere in the world. We can look at the western cities and exclaim wow! they are great--but cannot think why our own cities can be as clean or as great as theirs. The moment we step out of our houses and are on the roads, we think we can spit anywhere, throw any trash anywhere etc.

But this thinking is changing. Many cities have changed themselves drastically--one of the prominent one is Surat in Gujarat--which is a kind of role-model for rest of the country. And now since a great private participation is expected in infrastructure development including townships, lets hope that in the next 10 years, a few of the newly developed areas match the world standards.

Re: # 73

````How does the education of a previous generation contribute to the ``intelligence`` or ``determination`` of the next generation? If intelligence is genetic, then you are supporting the caste system. If it is not genetically inherited, then every generation has to stand or fall on its own merit.````

What I meant by this is that the more educated the parents are, the more educated the children are likely to be. Not due to genetics, but due to a different nurturing environment where education is stressed, the awareness of different possibilities, financial means to secure these etc.

Do you disagree?

Thanks,
Avkrishna

For those who missed it, here is my post on Farzana Versey`s board ``Love Ya, Dubya`` (interact #56 on March 3, 2006)

[We are spending most of our money on defence. Not on education, literacy, health. What kind of upward mobility is this?]

No, the government doesn`t have to spend money on education. Because it has been shown that government schools are the pits. And of course the teachers are selected not because they love teaching but because they belong to SC/ST/BC/MBC/OBC, etc. And soon, if the current UPA government has its way, because they are Christians or Muslims. (Sikhs, Jains and Buddhists somehow don`t count. And forget about Hindus.)

The latest Ananda Vikatan (a weekly Tamil magazine) has the story of Waheeda. a platform dweller in Chennai. Her father Shakir Hussain has a lowly job. Her mother Lakshmi, now called Fathima (why doesn`t THAT surprise me?) picks rags from garbage to make ends meet. They are sending Waheeda to the Church Park Sacred Heart School, an exclusive private school where even middle-class parents hesitate to send their children because of the fees.

Nope, they are not expecting a handout from the government. And they are prepared to sacrifice their present for the sake of Waheeda`s future.

If more people do that, there would be no need to spend government money on education. We could close all government schools and tell the leeches named Masanamuthu or Love Queen to take their degrees with a major in Periyarism and shove it up their butt.

Ref pmishra2 #40

[Why cannot we double the number of private schools?]

Absolutely. Take the example of engineering colleges in Tamil Nadu. Right now there are 250+ engineering colleges in just one state churning out code coolies. These code coolies -- be they Brahmins or Dalits -- once they get some job, realize that they got to perform on the job if they hope to keep the job. So they actually end up getting a work ethic. You want to see the results? Shiny new office buildings in Bangalore, Hyderabad and Chennai. Lots of scooters, motorcycles and cars on the road. People thronging the restaurants and bars. Jewellery stores having to hire security personnel to keep buyers OUT.

By all means, privatize all education. Then there will be none of this talk of strikes by teachers, strikes by school peons, etc.

[What is the constraint?]

There is no constraint. Come to any small town in Tamil Nadu and see the students throng the English-medium schools. Look at schools in Chennai that consistently send 10 of their students to IITs each year where all your money won`t buy your kid admission.

[If the teachers are absent, why cannot there be a protest?]

The only kind of protest is where you lynch a couple of these so-called ``teachers``. That would shape the rest of them up.

Ref masanamuthu #38

[I`m thinking of making money some day by claiming how a lower caste guy like me got discriminated and came out successful after overcoming a lot of hardships to a ``receptive`` audience.. :-)) ]

Nobody will come listen to you. There is more money to be gotten out of whining.

Point #2: You didn`t get discriminated AGAINST; you got discriminated FOR. People like me LOST so that you could get a professional education you wouldn`t have qualified for.

Ref HP #11

[““Why do state schools function so badly?” “Why are teachers not better trained and why do they not teach?” “Yes, yes, we are knowing that only people with the right accents can get into English medium schools.” “How will Dalit children cope with problems in the curriculum, the barriers in the social system within the schools, lack of help at home?”

I am kind of surprised that why the author is being called a sore loser when all he had brought out some issues in the education system. What makes him a sore loser? Is it being sore loser to discus problem facing India?]

You mean, you are planning to write an article on the Pakistani madrassahs?

Ref avkrishna #7

[Some of the people who criticize you here cannot understand that, the merit based admissions which they advocate is not perfect and is determined a lot by family wealth, the education of elders. We need to level the playing field for backward castes and reservations are one of the best way.]

How does the education of a previous generation contribute to the ``intelligence`` or ``determination`` of the next generation? If intelligence is genetic, then you are supporting the caste system. If it is not genetically inherited, then every generation has to stand or fall on its own merit.

Even this chinese guy gets it....

http://ia.rediff.com/money/2006/mar/22asoc.htm?q=tp&file=.htm

Q: Besides the predictable answer of infrastructure, what are India`s problem areas?

A: Ideology. Socialism is still ingrained in the minds of many in India.....

Revathy:

Yes, India has a serious problem of lack of good primary education for poor in general and low caste poor in particular. I am in favour of caste-based reservations in private schools and I also agree with the BJP that those reservations should be extended to the minority-run private institutions as well.

But this will only be tinkering with the problem. Even those low caste who make it under the reservations would most likely come from the creamy layer of the lower castes, so the incremental effect may not be very significant.

The root of the problem is the lack of attention paid to primary schooling. This is where resources have to be diverted. And it is not just a question of monetary resources; as soyasauce pointed out, there is a lot of corruption in government run schools. The lure of private tutoring has had a very serious effect on the quality of teaching in regular schools. Perhaps, a radical solution such as providing vouchers to poor parents which they can use in any school of their choice should be considered.

its very easy for indian states to increase their education spending by 4 folds..if they dismantle other nonsense state-owned beurocracies and PSUs ..e.g. dismantle the stupid tourism deparments of each state, electronic corporations, agro-products coporations and so on, and just the pension funds of employees will double spending for schools. but the commies will definately strike to protest this.

Re: # 68 nasah
[... Hindu matrimonial adds of educated kids in India Abroad or on Shadi com negates that feeling...]

True.... but I think it mostly reflects the parental mentality rather than the kids` themselves.... the kid probably wouldn`t care as long as he/she gets a good looking partner with good earning potential :)

it`s good to see that the educated Hindus are aware of the scourge of Casteism as a blot on the fabric of an otherwise tolerant Hindu society -- and I am sure Indian Hindus have advanced since Gandhi`s days in this direction -- but seeing the Hindu matrimonial adds of educated kids in India Abroad or on Shadi com negates that feeling.....

what`s needed is more and more articles like these of self-criticism and self- introspection.....without apologies for a decadent practice of yore for both the Hindus and even the Muslims.....of the subcontinent....

When I was a small kid, I used to visit a nearby Temple along with my father. The sight of too many beggars sitting outside the temple used to disgust me. One day I asked my father that when these beggars are sitting outside the temple for the whole day and God doesnt do anything for them then what is He going to do for us who come once or twice in a week to the temple?

My father replied that these beggars are made to sit outside the temple--so that in your pursuit of God, you donot forget that there many many poor people around who need your attention and care.

The above words of my father have left a profound effect on me.

Coming to the commies, yes we can throw them out of the country along with those who support them-- but let us not forget that then in our pursuit of ``God``, there will be nobody to remind us that there are poor people around in our country who need our attention and care.

Re: # 54

Abe Stuka,

Rashtravadi Narendrabhai Modi ko opoose kar ke commie ka rona mat ro? Pricks like u r any day a bigger problem than the commie. See my interact to DM. When are u and ur APNA types` taking Train to Pakistan (one way, no return ticket and surrender passport at the border).

Absolutely no Regards
Sanatani

Re: # 60

Throw Bengal out of the Union I agree, will look forward to the day when we can act so decisively.

Regards
Sanatani

If you make comparison with other countries then only you can come to some worthwhile conclusions. Variation in access to education exists in all countries. I think so we need objective index for comparison.

``Language, history, science, maths, these are the fundamentals of any curriculum. Yet getting acquainted with these skills, if not exactly mastering them, does not make a person educated.``

Indian education system does not impart basic enterprise skills. Even basic skill of ordering food in restaurants, taking a ride in bus/train, etc etc are all left to chance events in life of a person. Like sex education. Sometimes these ``real`` skills make or break future of a person. In USA a schoolgoer is taught how to drive a car. To drive a car you need a license. Earning a driver`s license is part of coming of age in USA. But you do not need a license to walk the street and find a place you wish to reach using walking as only ``technology`` that you use. Or using a bicycle or find your way about in a town. Most important skill that a schoolgoer in India will learn is to look up a number in telephone directory. Yet how many of us were formally trained to do that? How many of us made a telephone call from a PCO before graduating from school? There is a divide between those who made a telephone call in their school years and those who did not. So how about ``teaching`` how Indian PCO phone works? How about systematically making a list of ``real`` skills and make them part of curriculum?

re: private schools
I think private schools have ushered in a slow revolution in education in India. Even poor familes are sending their children to these schools where quality of education seems to be better than any govt schools.
This NY Times article talks about such a revolution.
( In this democracy of more than one billion people, an educational revolution is under way, its telltale signs the small children everywhere in uniforms and ties. From slums to villages, the march to private education, once reserved for the elite, is on.

On the four-mile stretch of road between this village in Bihar State, in the north, and the district capital, Hajipur, there are 17 private schools)
(``If anything should be free, it is primary education,`` said Amartya Sen, the Nobel Prize-winning economist. No developed country, whether France or Japan, had educated itself using private schools, he noted.

A recent census in the slums of Hyderabad, in Andhra Pradesh, found that of 1,000 schools identified, two-thirds were private, according to James Tooley, a professor at the University of Newcastle in England who oversaw the research.

``In big cities, it`s more or less over,`` an economist, Jean Drèze, who helped write a national assessment of education in 1999, said of government primary education, although rural students depend heavily on government schooling. ``Within 10 to 15 years, government schools will be almost wiped out.``)

(But it has neglected elementary education. India spends only about 1.7 percent of gross domestic product on primary education, and 3.4 percent for education overall (compared with about 5 percent for Brazil). Up to 40 million children are out of school, something the government hopes will be remedied by a law passed in 2002 that made free and compulsory education a fundamental right for children up to 14.)
Sridhar

re: this article
A nice article
There is no doubt caste system is a big curse in India. It is a legacy of a mental sickness that pervaded the Hindu society in the past.
My hope is that with globalisation, caste system will become irrelevant.
Already, the strict hierarchial rule of the caste (where a carpenter`s son can only become a carpenter etc) has broken down completely at least in big cities, towns. In villges, old system prevails but will break down once globalisation spreads there.
Sridhar

Calling china a communist country is insult to communism. Its a dictatorship headed by a small group of people.

In one sense the Pakis are lucky....they got rid of their Bongs in 1971. If only, we could let them go and join Bangladesh, we would have 10% growth in rest of India and conquer the poverty issues

Mohar,

The desi commies need to be sent to china and interact with the chinku commies to learn about free market economics. But the real problem is the state of West Bengal. If it were not for Bengal, there wouldnt be enough commies at the center who could influence policy.

One way out is for the rest of the country to punish West Bengal and Bengalis for this nuisance. There must be a national level movement of non-cooperation to boycott Bengal and Bengalis until they stop voting for commies. There needs to be a concerted national action focused on making the bongs change their ways.

All industrialists should move out their operations and close whatever investment is going on there as long as those fools keep voting the commies to power. Also other states must discourage bongs resident in West Bengal to apply and get jobs out of state. You vote for commies, you live with them and enjoy their magnificent system. Dont try to get out of Bengal and enjoy a good life outside, when your choices are screwing up the nation.

Netizen, Mrs. Gopal is in india where it is pre dawn..

If I may interject, I went to government schools in rural tamil nadu where classes were often held under a banyan tree. We had a mix of teachers, some dedicated and very good, but for some others this was just a govt job with guaranteed salary and pension that also gave access to students who would come to their after-school coaching classes. Teachers running coaching classes ranked among the richest. They could afford to buy land and would be gone missing for days during harvesting, transplanting, etc. They also were usually knee deep in party politics.
In contrast, it was the poor, low-caste students who had to be absent from school for days during important crop seasons for that`s when you help out your family financially by working the fields.
If the infrastructure of the schools was bad then, it`s much worse now. The government seems to have abandoned primary education to the private sector.

Re: # 55

mohar:

Where did you get that?... no way - I am saying exactly opposite - I am asking the govt` to spend more - ``massive`` was my word.... And the money has to come from somewhere - and that source would be PSU divestment.... but that`s where commies come in and screw up....

the second part - like you said - is accountability... the current delivety mechanism will not work - it has to be revamped....


I agree with that..

Re: # 55

mohar:

``And the money has to come from somewhere - and that source would be PSU divestment.... ``

other source could have been the money earmarked for ``100 days employment`` programme. everyone knows where that money is going to end up.

this huge amount could have been used for productive outcomes like primary education. but who the hell cares, politics comes first, national priorities last.

Re: # 54 stuka

exactly....

Re: # 53 masan
[...If you think govt. spending on primary education is a commie policy, i need more of it....]

Where did you get that?... no way - I am saying exactly opposite - I am asking the govt` to spend more - ``massive`` was my word.... And the money has to come from somewhere - and that source would be PSU divestment.... but that`s where commies come in and screw up....

the second part - like you said - is accountability... the current delivety mechanism will not work - it has to be revamped....

``So Talking about problems is ``commie way of whining`` in Indianspeak.
Interesting folks of the fantasyland of India..... ``

Yup. India is a fantasyland where Commies create problems and then cry about it.

First screw India, and then talk about how India is screwed = Leftists.

Re: # 41
mohar11:

There are silver linings of course.... but after 60 years of self-rule, if you still have something like 500 million unwashed poor roaming around - what do you call that? Most people will call that a ``disaster``....


``Education`` is mostly in the state list, and different states have had differing success rates. The literacy rate according to the last census is somewhere in the 65%, though the standard for what they mean literacy is very low..

But it`s a great improvement if you compared with the statistics of 1947. I think it was around 10%..If you think govt. spending on primary education is a commie policy, i need more of it..

What is needed from the govt. is not to cut back spending, but to introduce accountability and make the school management accountable.. Private schools are not paragons of virtue..They maintain higher standards in order to attract students and make money.. There are very few private schools with noble motives..

It is not that govt. school teachers are less paid. They get very good salaries compared to what you get in private schools.. It is the lack of accountability that gets the bad name for govt. schools..

Re: # 51
Education might not be sufficient reason but it is an important reason to elevate ranks of learning, culture and balanced view. It tries to teach a person to be able to think for himself.
When revathy asks question in her last para, the probable solution could be education. Hopefully that is why we are discussing it.

we all a fighting over the education system but i think the author has her own doubts about it.

she is not sure whether education cirriculum is sufficient to raise a man or woman to the elevated ranks of learning and culture and a balanced world view.

hence i think we are discussing something that the author is least bothered about.

Revathy has raised important issues that hinder progress of India. Even though she did not state any solution(s) but we can discuss it here. Dont know how many ideas will be used.
Education is a ticket out of poverty in India. It is important if you want to move ahead.
Its important that India has reservations even though I dont like the quota system. But after 60 years of it one needs to look back and see what progress have been made. What are its benefits and more importantly what is wrong with it.
Reservations should have limited use i.e. a person of SC, ST or BC should not be using it everytime. Maybe once to get in college and once to get a job. After that, for promotions and other opportunities he should compete on a regular turf.
With schools, the teachers needs to be held responsible for the success of students. If not completely atleast partially. We have teachers in government school that dont teach at all. It would be wonderful if a part of their salary can be tied to success of students. This is were perhaps the commie bashing comes in picture because of the teachers union.
The most important would be somehow to publish a report card for each government minister both at state and center. Hopefully some independent authority similar to election commission so that we can know what a particular minister or MP or MLA is doing with his time.
Private sector will play more important role as the economy opens up. If we can ask private companies to atleast let us know how many BC, SC or ST applied for a job and the reason for them not accepting them then one can know what is impeding the lower caste. This should not just be applied to caste but also religion and gender. The government census for religion is a good idea. It should not be politicized but the results should be understood how more muslims, women, backward caste people can be given more opportunities without discriminating against middle or upper class.

can the author please interact????

what is the efficacy of RSS run schools in tribal areas? there was a big stink a while back that they were raising a core of hindutva brigade.

Re: # 43

Sorry that should read ``wrote an article`` ,,,, used a conjunction instead. My bad......to use an Amrikanism

The author might be a `commie`, but the problem she raised is real.

Caste discrimination is still real and present in every walk of life. We have made some progress since Independence, but a lot more to be done on this front.

People blame Commies and Socialists for the rot in the country, but these very policies created a means for backward castes to progress. The Public sector and massive Buerocritization in the last 50 years have definitely held back the progress of India, but through the reservations in these Govt. controlled insititutions, generations of backward castes have managed to move up the social/economic ladder.

Now as we move away from Socialist economy to a Capitalist economy with all it`s accompanying features of Meritocracy, Flexible Labour laws etc. , this problem takes on a new dimension and becomes more acute.

How do we continue the make the path easier for Backward castes? We need to have an active policy (I prefer a non mandatory one) to increase the representation of Backward castes, while not endangering the competitiveness of our economy. Let`s not postpone the problem like some of the East Asian countries who ignored the social inequalities till a sufficient level of economic development had been achieved.

Thanks,
Avkrishna

Re: # 43 sw
[....So then who will?? The government. No school private school will permit that. It will mean government interference in the running of the schools....]

A voucher program could work.... 60% paid by govt, 35% paid by the private schools [ some tax credits??], 5% [or a nominal fee] paid by the students....

At the same time - govt schools must be improved with massive infusion of funds with required change in delivery structure....

A holistic approach has to be taken.....

Re: # 39 soy

I was talking about individual chinese...... they brag when they get a chance and why shouldn`t they?....

if you think commie-issue is a ``dead horse`` - then I don`t know what to say.... obviously we have totally different read on the situation...:)).... and I would be happiest person if you were correct...

Re: # 27
Netizen... I don`t think any private school in India would prevent Dalit children from joining if they could pay the fees. However private schools are expensive as we know. When my son attended school in Bombay I was paying something close to Rs 18,000 a year for a reputed ICSE school in kindergarten. Contrast this to me spending about Rs 120 per annum in a convent school in the same city 20 years earlier. ergo, not many Dalit children can attend these schools.

So who`s going to subsidise them? Many middle class people struggle to send their children to private schools so that they will have a better future. They go without little luxuries themselves. They will not subsidise the Dalit children and it would be unfair to ask them to.
So then who will?? The government. No school private school will permit that. It will mean government interference in the running of the schools.

So do you ask Industrial houses to set aside money for these children. They might , but then they might demand their pound of flesh. Admission quotas for their employees , kids etc....

I have friends who run a school in India where village children are taught. It`s in a place called Arasavanangkadu in Tamil Nadu. They depend on donors and they are doing quite well. However their teaching style is a little different but it is successful as they`ve been able to help kick start similar schools in other areas like Pondicherry etc..

That said I`m still not sure that Ms.Gopal is a leftist commie etc etc etc..........She wrote and article where she hasn`t blamed anybody. Just asked a few questions.

Funnily tho mohar11, it`s the commies of china who are making a difference.
Chinese official: communism will succeed only when people are tired of bourgeoise, hence we are trying to create as many bourgeois as possible :)

Re: # 38
[....I don`t think the policies of the last 60 years resulted in complete disaster....]

There are silver linings of course.... but after 60 years of self-rule, if you still have something like 500 million unwashed poor roaming around - what do you call that? Most people will call that a ``disaster``....

we can count the blessings - even though some people accuse you of bragging, fantasy-land and such - but we have to move on.... the obstacles are many and they have to be removed, old failed ideologies have to be discarded....

I see that we have another pakistani socialist advising us on how to improve india. Usually these guys tend to be rich and well-connected. Naturally, they feel they can lecture us coolies on how to improve themselves. They can also make reference to extremist publications like Frontline (home of Prafool Bidwai, N Ram and other comrades).


What these paki socialists forget is that indians have lived with socialist politicians for a long time. We have seen how they pamper their own constituency and how little interest they have in genuine change. We see them encourage privileged workers at airports and hospitals to demonstrate and destroy.

I agree that the issue is a practical one. It needs practical methods for solution. Why cannot we double the number of private schools? What is the constraint? Why cannot there be neighborhood groups that check everyday on the goverment schools? If the teachers are absent, why cannot there be a protest?

There are so many practical ways of making progress. I see NONE of them mentioned by Revathy. She may be well intentioned but nothing in her article suggests she has done anything more that complain. Sorry, that just isnt good enough...

Of course, rich hypocrites like HP are in a totally different category, a category inhabited by Arundhati Roy and the like....

mohar11
Haven`t you flogged this particular dead horse enough already? Your commie strawman was funny for a while but now it`s getting boring. Commies are you kafirs or what?
China consistently understates its trade surplus. Nothing like we exported 200 b dollars worth more than we imported from the US, etc. Except perhaps with the japanese, china doesn`t go around telling everyone how big they are.

Labelling people / ideas as ``commie`` or ``fascist`` won`t help.. Only ``pragmatic`` ideas work.. I don`t think the policies of the last 60 years resulted in complete disaster.

It is true that govt. schools are a disgrace for the most part (other than a few shining exceptions). But the solution is not to disband the sytem but to reform it. Govt`s goal should be to provide Quality primary education for all at minimum cost to the public..(it would be better if
there are schemes like the mid-day meals to entice children to stick to school)..

Question to the author:

classrooms that are all-inclusive are practically non-existent in the villages of India. They in fact, perpetuate caste, keep Dalit kids out of the reckoning. ..

Do you have proof for this??.. We have reserved seats (22%) for Dalits in higher academic institutions (colleges) in every class for the last 60 years and a lot of people make use of it.. it implies that all those who got benefited have studied in cities / towns..
Maybe there needs to be a special category for ``rural Dalits``.. I am interested to know if there was any research behind it.. If the above statement is to attract westrern audience, ignore my question.. :-))

I`m thinking of making money some day by claiming how a lower caste guy like me got discriminated and came out successful after overcoming a lot of hardships to a ``receptive`` audience.. :-))

#36 (Addendum)

I forgot to say, sorry to get here late!

India – strident, chaotic, often anarchic – has always been more than the flavor of the season, and perhaps the world has finally come around to simply recognizing it. (Being a large market helps, too.)

Some of the social problems and evils that you mention are legitimate causes for concern and have been that way for a while – but I believe one reason such problems have stuck around is because of the lack of focus on them. Human beings being human and selfish will always have limitations and will not reform out of pure goodwill and certainly not because of any particular ideology. (Because of religion? Thanks for the laugh!) But most people do care about their image.

Therefore, publicity is a good thing.

There is nothing like daylight!

and commies are whiners because anytime you come up with a solution - they whine, talk big and block the solution... the result - the nation is poor, uneducated and deprived.....

examples - they seek to block and/or blocked - city restructure, airport reform, PSU privatization, FDI in insurance, infrastructure, banking..... heck even you pakis have better ratings on FDI facilitation[even though nobody goes there] - you know that right?

So that`s what the whiners have done to this country.... my simple message is - stop your bullsh!t and get out of the way.... you have done enough damage already....

Re: # 31
[...But the Indian way is to shove it under the rug or call the person sore loser....]

Nope - indian way is to get whiners out of the way so that you have a chance to implement the solution....

Re: # 29

soy:

``We are like a beggar who found a 10 rupee note in the street and suddenly felt wealthy. ``

better than the beggar getting his tattered clothes robbed in the name of ``common good`` :)

Re: # 29 soy
[....Regarding india`s ``time in the sun,`` what makes me uncomfortable is all the bragging that goes with it....]

I agree - but what makes me uncomfortable is when commies come crashing on it.... I mean - what the heck do they have to show for all their bluster?....I am sure some people brag - but most are aware of the fact that we are far away from goal....

And who said chinese don`t brag?....

Mohar,
``Why are YOU fighting on behalf of commies anyway?....``

That is funny. Why would I bat for commies? I did not even know that the author is commie. She is talking about a problem which is as grave in Pakistan as it is in India.
So my objection was: why is she being called a ``sore loser`` when she is presenting a problem which exists. It is not that she made it up.

Unless you talk about the probelms, you can never find the solution.
But the Indian way is to shove it under the rug or call the person sore loser....

Head in the sand.

Re: # 26 HP

I told you the possible solutions... are you reading my posts?

examples:

1. Bad schools - solution: get money from out of the PSUs - All PSUs should be privatized and resulting money should directly handed over to an independent commission to spend on schools, healthcare or whatver....

2. employment - solution: labor reform.... hire and fire with benefits....

3. infrastructure - solution: full FDI on automatic ruote - no permssion needed from govt....

Of course - I don`t have solutions for everything - but one thing we know - commies have solutions for nothing.... they have proved that over and over again... they have to get aside....

Ah well, the usual suspects...
Mrs. Gopal, this article is shot thru with compassion and I salute you for it.
However, isn`t it easier for the government to issue orders to private schools rather than try to improve public schools? In essence the government is saying we don`t know how to fix things but since you have done it, we command you to oblige us. The intent is good but the government admitting incompetance and asserting its authority at the same time does not bode well. Besides, who is going to subsidize the tution of the quota students?

Regarding india`s ``time in the sun,`` what makes me uncomfortable is all the bragging that goes with it. The chinese and even the japanese up until a decade ago, have been very circumspect, cautious and given to understate their accomplishment. Empty vessels and all that, but from a practical standpoint you don`t want to antagonize other nations by flaunting which they may see as a threat to their way of life.

Indians should emphasize how we are a dirt poor nation and we are not stealing jobs from anybody. How can money help when the air is choking with poison and the water, when it`s available, is polluted? We are like a beggar who found a 10 rupee note in the street and suddenly felt wealthy.

#10 swarrier, thanks for the quote.

Re: # 23 HP
[...So talking about the school system is a commie way of whining because there is no problem in the school system....]

Nope - there is hell lot of problems in the school system and every other ``system`` we have... how do you solve it?.... have to get more money for social programs... we all know a huge chunk is held up in ``public sector`` companies[ the cash cows that are milked by commeis for personal benefits].... so let`s divest - get the money out and spend it on schools, teachers, food whatever - right? good idea?....

But no.... commies will hear none of it.... after commies took over - there has been no divestment program whatsover..... and yet they have the temerity to come and whine about bad schools.... you f***er blocked the solution, remember?.... who the f*** is going to teach them that simple logic....

Why are YOU fighting on behalf of commies anyway?....

Revathy:

one more issue:

``In the programme on BBC World Radio, the theme of excluding of Dalit children from education in private schools came up.``

could you please tell us why were they excluded. Was it a official policy or the Dalits couldn`t pay the fees or couldn`t pass the entrance tests (if any).

Mohar,

So democracy is no good. They are there because people like them...people don`t like you and your ideas.

What makes you think that their getting out of the way would help, if you don`t provide the answer or a solution.

So we ignore the commie way of whining, what is your way of whining.... or what is your solution?

Revathy:

``The sudden spate of visits to India by important and self-important men and women from all corners of the earth signifies something that only the very blind and impervious will see as being a good thing.``

Why is it bad?

what has this para to do with the rest of the article?

---

wrt to the rest of the article:

the problem is indias primary education system. We need huge investments, similar to what we need in case of infrastructure development.

you are right that in rural india we have ``ghost`` schools where we may not even find benches and chairs forget about the Master.

but it boils down to the leadership and the vision of the HRD and the Education Ministry.

the state is that the gov. can`t do much hence the private players are stepping in.

HRD is more interested in indulging in vote-bank politics and deciding what IIT`s, IIM`s should do.

education should be a basic right of the citizen, that should be a priority of the gov. not private institutions.

first the gov. can`t/hasn`t done anything. if someoen else wants to do something than they come with their politics.

what do you think should be done. do you have any ideas to alleviate the situation?

Re: # 21 HP

Nope - stupidity is the commie way .... they can`t do the job and they don`t allow others to do it.... and then they come back with same old bullsh!t, same old crocodile tears... we are just sick of their talk talks and incessant whining.....

Like I told you before - Talking about problems is NOT the issue here - the issue is how to solve the problems... commie way hasn`t worked - we all know it.... so why are commies still b!tching and moaning?.... when you ruled a country for 60 years and ran it to ground - you should accept your stupidity and get out of the way - so that able people can do the job right....that`s all we are asking for.... get out of the way - do not block progress.... do not block investments, initiatives, reforms that we all know works.....

The idea is to invalidate commie mentality and ideology - show one and all that, these people and their ideologies are fake and they don`t work..... that we have keep these people aside, otherwise we will continue to be poor and derived.....

#22 by swarrier

I know Indian papers more than this guy....

I am just amazed at the level of divide...This paper is commie because they write about problems. When I will start posting the same thing from the pioneer, it will be the RSS whiners and so and so forth.

Every problem in India is a commie problem. Considering the commies are in the ruling coalition, they have to take th