Kibbutz Criminals

#470 by tahmed32

No trouble at all. Just a few lines on the `direction` part in broad Industrial Policy.

1947-1958
Pakistan - No industrial policy.
India - Import substitution:capital goods.

1959-1972
Pakistan - Import substitution:consumer goods w/out transfer of tech.
India - Import substitution:capital goods.

1973-1979
Pakistan - Import substitution:capital goods.
India - Import substitution:capital goods.

1980-1991
Pakistan - Export-orientation. Import substitution policy abandoned.
India - Import substitution:consumer goods w/transfer of tech.

1992-1999
Pakistan - No policy. Most industry sick. Infrastructure focus. FDI Liberalization.
India - Export orientation. Substitution:consumer goods w/transfer of tech.

2000-to date
Pakistan - Export orientation. Import liberalization.
India - Export orientation. Substitution:consumer goods w/transfer of tech.

As you can see, India moved into export orientation only once it had completed its essential imports substitution cycles and self reliant to a large extent, thereby relieveing it of its foreign exchange pressures. Pakistan in the meantime lost direction, regained it briefly, lost it again, then simply gave up and began importing even more useless stuff than before, increasing its reliance on foreign exchange which can`t be met through its textiles exports alone.

That is the `direction` I had lamented about.

zeemax: great poem, this ``Nevermore``. Why do you consider it nihilistic?? I think it has more to with Poe weeping for this beauty, his ``lost Lenore``.

btw, dont go to a lot of trouble on my account concerning pakistan`s economic prospects. Instead, make that an article. Either way, I hope you will keep the positive aspects in mind as well.

#468 by swarrier

Brilliant! Thanks ... yes reminds me of DOS ... great.

See you Tom ...

Re: # 467
Ah , Poe of course. Really pessimistic or nihilistic which ever way you look.

Bit of fun now.
If you struggled with DOS in its earlier days or Windows today (it doesn`t really matter) take a look at this bit of futility.

http://www.shades-of-night.com/aviary/poegram.html

You may have already seen it.

Rgds

#466 by swarrier

Yaar swarrier ... you`re right up my alley. But ponder upon this. This is Nihilism:

Once upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered, weak and weary,
Over many a quaint and curious volume of forgotten lore,
While I nodded, nearly napping, suddenly there came a tapping,
As of someone gently rapping, rapping at my chamber door.
`` `Tis some visitor,`` I muttered, ``tapping at my chamber door;
Only this, and nothing more.``

Ah, distinctly I remember, it was in the bleak December,
And each separate dying ember wrought its ghost upon the floor.
Eagerly I wished the morrow; vainly I had sought to borrow
From my books surcease of sorrow, sorrow for the lost Lenore,.
For the rare and radiant maiden whom the angels name Lenore,
Nameless here forevermore.

And the silken sad uncertain rustling of each purple curtain
Thrilled me

---

filled me with fantastic terrors never felt before;
So that now, to still the beating of my heart, I stood repeating,
`` `Tis some visitor entreating entrance at my chamber door,
Some late visitor entreating entrance at my chamber door.
This it is, and nothing more.``

Presently my soul grew stronger; hesitating then no longer,
``Sir,`` said I, ``or madam, truly your forgiveness I implore;
But the fact is, I was napping, and so gently you came rapping,
And so faintly you came tapping, tapping at my chamber door,
That I scarce was sure I heard you.`` Here I opened wide the door;

---

Darkness there, and nothing more.

Deep into the darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing
Doubting, dreaming dreams no mortals ever dared to dream before;
But the silence was unbroken, and the stillness gave no token,
And the only word there spoken was the whispered word,
Lenore?, This I whispered, and an echo murmured back the word,
``Lenore!`` Merely this, and nothing more.

Back into the chamber turning, all my soul within me burning,
Soon again I heard a tapping, something louder than before,
``Surely,`` said I, ``surely, that is something at my window lattice.
Let me see, then, what thereat is, and this mystery explore.
Let my heart be still a moment, and this mystery explore.
`` `Tis the wind, and nothing more.``

Open here I flung the shutter, when, with many a flirt and flutter,
In there stepped a stately raven, of the saintly days of yore.
Not the least obeisance made he; not a minute stopped or stayed he;
But with mien of lord or lady, perched above my chamber door.
Perched upon a bust of Pallas, just above my chamber door,
Perched, and sat, and nothing more.

Then this ebony bird beguiling my sad fancy into smiling,
By the grave and stern decorum of the countenance it wore,
``Though thy crest be shorn and shaven thou,`` I said, ``art sure no craven,
Ghastly, grim, and ancient raven, wandering from the nightly shore.
Tell me what the lordly name is on the Night`s Plutonian shore.``
Quoth the raven, ``Nevermore.``

Much I marvelled this ungainly fowl to hear discourse so plainly,
Though its answer little meaning, little relevancy bore;
For we cannot help agreeing that no living human being
Ever yet was blessed with seeing bird above his chamber door,
Bird or beast upon the sculptured bust above his chamber door,
With such name as ``Nevermore.``

But the raven, sitting lonely on that placid bust, spoke only
That one word, as if his soul in that one word he did outpour.
Nothing further then he uttered; not a feather then he fluttered;
Till I scarcely more than muttered, ``Other friends have flown before;
On the morrow he will leave me, as my hopes have flown before.``
Then the bird said, ``Nevermore.``

Startled at the stillness broken by reply so aptly spoken,
``Doubtless,`` said I, ``what it utters is its only stock and store,
Caught from some unhappy master, whom unmerciful disaster
Followed fast and followed faster, till his songs one burden bore,

---

Till the dirges of his hope that melancholy burden bore
Of ``Never

---

nevermore.``

But the raven still beguiling all my sad soul into smiling,
Straight I wheeled a cushioned seat in front of bird, and bust and door;
Then, upon the velvet sinking, I betook myself to linking
Fancy unto fancy, thinking what this ominous bird of yore --
What this grim, ungainly, ghastly, gaunt and ominous bird of yore
Meant in croaking ``Nevermore.``

Thus I sat engaged in guessing, but no syllable expressing
To the fowl, whose fiery eyes now burned into my bosom`s core;
This and more I sat divining, with my head at ease reclining
On the cushion`s velvet lining that the lamplight gloated o`er,
But whose velvet violet lining with the lamplight gloating o`er
She shall press, ah, nevermore!

Then, methought, the air grew denser, perfumed from an unseen censer
Swung by seraphim whose footfalls tinkled on the tufted floor.
``Wretch,`` I cried, ``thy God hath lent thee -- by these angels he hath
Sent thee respite

---

respite and nepenthe from thy memories of Lenore!
Quaff, O quaff this kind nepenthe, and forget this lost Lenore!``
Quoth the raven, ``Nevermore!``

``Prophet!`` said I, ``thing of evil!--prophet still, if bird or devil!
Whether tempter sent, or whether tempest tossed thee here ashore,
Desolate, yet all undaunted, on this desert land enchanted--
On this home by horror haunted--tell me truly, I implore:
Is there--is there balm in Gilead?--tell me--tell me I implore!``
Quoth the raven, ``Nevermore.``

``Prophet!`` said I, ``thing of evil--prophet still, if bird or devil!
By that heaven that bends above us--by that God we both adore--
Tell this soul with sorrow laden, if, within the distant Aidenn,
It shall clasp a sainted maiden, whom the angels name Lenore

---

Clasp a rare and radiant maiden, whom the angels name Lenore?
Quoth the raven, ``Nevermore.``

``Be that word our sign of parting, bird or fiend!`` I shrieked, upstarting--
``Get thee back into the tempest and the Night`s Plutonian shore!
Leave no black plume as a token of that lie thy soul hath spoken!
Leave my loneliness unbroken! -- quit the bust above my door!
Take thy beak from out my heart, and take thy form from off my door!``
Quoth the raven, ``Nevermore.``

And the raven, never flitting, still is sitting, still is sitting
On the pallid bust of Pallas just above my chamber door;
And his eyes have all the seeming of a demon`s that is dreaming.
And the lamplight o`er him streaming throws his shadow on the floor;
And my soul from out that shadow that lies floating on the floor
Shall be lifted

---

nevermore!

Re: # 465

It is actually good. Most times..

As in here .

O for a draught of vintage! that hath been
Cool`d a long age in the deep-delvèd earth,
Tasting of Flora and the country-green,
Dance, and Provençal song, and sunburnt mirth!
O for a beaker full of the warm South!
Full of the true, the blushful Hippocrene,
With beaded bubbles winking at the brim,
And purple-stainèd mouth;
That I might drink, and leave the world unseen,
And with thee fade away into the forest dim:
- J Keats (Ode to a nightingale).

Where`s that glass of .... , spring has come to Massachusetts?

#451 by swarrier

Aah ... just read your #451. Welcome to the club my friend. Yes all human endeavour is futile. But don`t take that road so easily. Life can actually be good! Just try.

#462 by swarrier

Yeah, yeah existantialist nihilist whatever. Don`t want to argue about that. But actually Sartr`e was existantialist. Nietzsche was existantialist. Goethe was existantialist. Even Allama Iqbal was existantialist ... but not Camus. He was nihilist.

Rgds

Re: # 462
Sorry meant to say ``posted my bit on #451``

Re: # 461
Zeemax
Camus was an existentialist. To other philosophies the journey`s end may be the journey itself. That`s the other bit I was trying to say, when I posted my on #451

#458 by tahmed32

No tahmed32 Saheb. The fundamental mistakes made since long ago have resulted in a structural abyss from which it will be practically impossible to climb out. I`ll detail this tomorrow. You did mention direction, didn`t you? I`ll explain what direction is and what is not.

I did enjoy your remark re Camus. Yes ... I`m a nihilist, if you want to call me that. All human endeavour is like a man spending an eternity crawling up a mountain, but soon as he nears the top, he`ll slip and start all over again.

That`s the destiny of all human effort.

Rgds

Farzana

The interactor named khamkhwa has been violating Chowk guidelines on unplugged and writing abusive posts against CHowk staff. Below is one example. Please enforce a ban as this is not right.

#14 by khamkhwa. on March 27, 2006 10:31am PT

your esteemed editor is a kafir...prolly you don`t know that...but she is an aga khani who worship aga khan instead of allah swt...

Re: # 457

You have got my point completely. However you cannot expect people on chowk to extinguish themselves by driving their cars through objects. He did, when he finished saying what he had to say. If he had lived he may have become as bad as Sartre. Now we are left with a youthful figure .......

Those whom the Gods love, die young , so that they can never become caricatures in their dotage ........

There is no hope for us.

zeemax #450 Thanks for helping me avoid scholarly research for your post.

I think, sir, that you are looking at the part of the glass that is empty. How about the part that is filled? after all, you cant argue with success - and 8.4% is success regardless of the details.

let me list some positives that i think indicate happy days ahead for economy:

1. Economic policies : Entrepreneurship was stifled in Pakistan under ZAB, the Zia years and the 1990`s were largely status quo in this area. What we are seeing now is a burst of entrepreneurship in Pakistan that was last seen in pre-ZAB days when Pakistan was held out as a ``model developing country``. The banking system has been largely liberated from the ZAB days. So, to give the devil his due, musharaff deserves credit for putting together a strong economic team of pakistanis who have made their mark internationally (the pm, the state bank governor, other lesser known people). and nawaz sharif - who started economic reforms in pakistan - is an unsung hero as well.

2. Political stake in Pakistan`s economy : Pakistan had been subject to stifling economic sanctions throughout the 1990`s, and these were lifted after 1998 as the US realized there was no point in keeping the barn door locked now that the genie was out of the box (to mix metaphors) and lifted those sanctions. Again musharaff deserves credit for playing his cards right.

3. Peace dividend : Peace moves with India have encouraged both domestic and foreign investments. I hear that in marriott islamabad they started serving veggie menu to cater to indian investors.

4. Improved regional prospects : The growth in the indian economy to the east and of the gulf states to the west and china to the north and the galloping growh rate of afghanistan all augur well for pakistan in many ways. Spillover affects of export orders to india, workers remittances from the gulf area.

5. education there has been an upsurge of demand and supply of primary, secondary as well as tertiary education in Pakistan. Places like Kohat - among the most backward and conservative part of Pakistan - have girls, boys as well as co-education schools and colleges.

I could go on, but dont want to go too far off-track the topic of this article.

#452 you refer i guess to monsieur camus, and his totally negative viewpoints (i.e. like sisyphus, we toil away uselessly). he would fit right into chowk, i guess. :-)

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