Kibbutz Criminals

All right, here we go again!

For those in the crowds who missed it in the last go-around - the contents of the filtered interacts are located at the following locations. Excerpts follow - strictly according to chowk guidelines! (Dheere re chalo, mere naajuk red riding hood! Kamar na pakre, daanto wale!)

Filtered post #423

The following investigative report appeared in the New York Daily News on March 30, 2003.
Sowing seeds of hatred
Islamic textbooks scapegoat Jews, Christians
By LARRY COHLER-ESSES
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER

(Excerpts)
Textbooks widely used in New York’s Islamic schools contain passages that are blatantly anti-Semitic, condemning Jews as a people, repeating old canards about the Jews wanting to kill Christ and faking their Holy Scriptures to mock God.

The Islamic texts teach that ``the Jews`` killed their own prophets and betrayed the Prophet Muhammed through their inherent deceitfulness.

The books, obtained during a three-month Daily News investigation that included visits to private Muslim schools, are rife with inaccuracies, sweeping condemnations of Jews and Christians, and triumphalist declarations of Islam’s supremacy. In Long Island City, Queens, for example, fifth- and sixth-graders at the Ideal Islamic School on 12th St. learn that Allah has revealed that ``the Jews killed their own prophets and disobeyed Allah.``

(The rest is available here.)

farzana versey

the point you raised in critisism for jewish people in your article is 100% right. and i am astonished that our indian brothers and sisters are so much annoyed on this. fact is still there which farzana ji you reiterated in your further interactions that this is about jews community, not about kashmir issue.

one of our brother whom i realy respect salim chauhan sb who is good muslim once wrote humrous article named ``muslims in infedilistan: a ready recknor`` in which he tried to convince the muslims to hide themselves behind the giant indian image and donot show your real identity as muslims specially when you are living in foreign country or travelling to some foreign country. it ridiculed all possible islamic identities adopted by muslims. even somewhere it mocked islam. the reaction by our indian brothers and sisters was really appriciating for mr. salim. and was encouraged to write more and more article on such a topic. its really interesting that somewhere mr. salim mimicked indian businessmen and IT professionals that they are always so mean and donot give tip to a waiter. i noticed that many of our indian brothers and sisters retaliated on this. this is real the time to think for muslims that they have become a mere stuff to be ridiculed and targeted for thers. farzana ji i am totally conviced and you deserve to be the chowk administrator.

My indian brothers and sisters

with due respect you people are totally biased agianst muslims. it shows that if something is agianst muslims you feel it in your favour and if something is in favour of muslims you feel it against yourselves. please come to your senses and leave this formula and try to read this article again and then analyse it before any interaction.


ghulam haider

#436

I assume that the chief editor is going to apply the guidelines uniformly and start out by censoring the massive amounts of ``cut and paste`` that mian Manto (and others) has been so liberally supplying us with?

Do not cut-and-paste copyright material from other sources on Chowk pages. If you wish to share an article from another source simply provide the link (URL) to that source. (From Chowk guidelines)

Should anyone wish to share a particular story from another source, then provide a link instead of lengthy articles and, if you really want to ram home the point , then add an excerpt. The usual spamming of boards is not necessary. People here can run their own search engines. Use your personal space for your seaches.

If you wish to share an original article written by you elsewhere -- and that is relevant to the subject of the article being discussed -- then it might be considered.

At this point, perhaps it is useful to explain why this interactor - who does not happen to be Jewish - is so laboriously trying to take the ``Jewish`` side. Therefore, I have tried to summarize below a few things I may have said here or there.

I do believe that there are many lessons for ``we`` people (i.e., for those from the subcontinent) if we choose to learn them, by reading about and understanding more of the Jewish experience (which, from all accounts, is without parallel) and especially that of the holocaust – both in terms of learning about man’s potential cruelty to man as well as man’s ability to survive against the worst odds. In many ways, the holocaust was (and remains) a most ``personal`` experience to most Jewish families somewhat like the India-Pakistan partition remains to those in our subcontinent who were destroyed or displaced due to it – people have moved on but the memories have remained and are not likely to be forgotten any time soon.

Religious beliefs and values are one thing – every community passes them from generation to generation – tragic experiences of this nature (the holocaust) are in a league of their own (both in intensity and magnitude) – they would superimpose themselves on TOP of whatever the original religious framework would be – an ``intellectual`` discussion is in many ways futile because of the very ``personal`` nature of the ordeal. (Note: for those who have not already read it, NHK’s article on this site is probably a good place to start to learn about Jewish history. Also, for those who live in the Washington, DC area or happen to visit there, please do make it a point to visit the Holocaust Memorial.)

It is also a fact of life that people who have to struggle to survive generally get better-trained to adapt to new realities, come up with more innovations (you see, they have little choice but to do so) and are able to forge ahead better – including in eventually making new discoveries. This is true of most immigrant populations, including Bangladeshis in India, Indians in U.S., and the Jewish expatriate populations world-wide.

The Jewish persecution was a very REAL fact of life – perhaps one of the greatest tragedies in the contemporary history of mankind – we south Asians were not in the picture when most of that outrage took place – however, let’s not try to be wishy-washy about it.

This author’s anti-Israel bias shows right up front! I particularly dislike dishonesty which depicts Israelis (and occasionally, Jews) as this omnipotent force controlling all the powers of media in the U.S. The reality is (and perhaps the author and her cohort hate pot are not capable of seeing it) that the ``Palestinian`` cause suffered (perhaps) an irreversible loss –after 9/11 and especially after the scenes of jubiliation following that disastrous event – in other words, don’t blame Israel when you YOURSELF hurt your image so!

To me, it’s utterly disgusting how whole bunch of ``authors`` at the chowk web site (with few exceptions) constantly beat up on the Jewish people. I think a point can be legitimately made that most of these wise ``owls`` don’t give a hoot about stereotyping, racism, and other forms of discrimination as long their own fanny stays safe. Jewish people, then, become an easy target, because they hope that nobody in THIS crowd will come after them for their irresponsible blanket statements because this crowd only cares about India or Pakistan. But such people are wrong as wrong can be! THIS interactor does care and will not let them get away with such garbage, because extremely average as this interactor is, he at least understands that condoning racism in one form is condoning racism in all its forms!

It is absolutely critical that we stop stereotyping people on the basis of race, religion, language, etc. Statements implying that the Jewish people exert undue control over U.S. economy, foreign policy, etc. are patently false and, in my view, a simplistic way for diverting attention from the real problems. Sadly, in the Arab world at large and perhaps among some Indians, this myth prevails. I strongly encourage any one interested in commenting about the Jewish faith and the Jewish people should do some reading about the Jewish history and the contribution of Jews to the present civilization. It is truly an eye-opener!

People who stereotype the victims of holocaust, or trivialize it - they are not successful in throwing wool into anyone’s eyes - they are merely showing their own true colors and degrading their souls in the process.

Sincerely,
BJ Kumar

#432 bjkumar

bjkumar, my dear Indian friend
Thank you.
In my humble opinion, you`re the right person for editorial candidacy seeing your conversational skills. I am,but, literary.....................................

hamidm asks
[...why do pakis and indian muslims get so worked up about jews and palestinians ...]

and farzana replies -

[...Why not? Today, we cannot expect societies to live in their cocoons...]

this from someone who never tires of questioning why NRIs comment on indian matters when they don`t even live in india.

#430 Hate Pot

Dear hate pot,

(Or perhaps I should call you Bunty (no gender is being implied (for that would make it highly inaccurate!)))

Ask Bablee to talk for herself!

Oops, I forgot - Bablee is doing double duty as chowk-staff.



#431 Zeena

That was massively illuminating. I think that chowk should fire the current editors and hand you the job.

{{{{#427 by einsteinwallah on March 26, 2006 4:34pm PT
Re: # 402

Zeena on my #382

zeemax is not my another nick. I was just giving you some advice. After all you write to be understood, don`t you? So should not you polish your language?}}}}}

Dear einstein jii(oops, sorry, I mean einsteinwallah)
Sir jii
Do I need to remind your highly POLISHED self that this article is absolutely NOT about me, this is about Jewish supremacy? So, may I request your polished self to restrict yourself to the main topic of the article to be included as polished interactor.To be a polished interactor one needs to follow interact guidelines and stick to the main topic. May I suggest you to discuss this article to be considered as a polished interactor instead of uselessly targeting Muslims and me. Thank you very much polished, sir jii.

einstein( opps, sorry , einsteinwallahwalla sahib jii)

To make your polished, pressured and burdened self easier, there is an anxiolytic as a gift from me (Mulsim Pakistani) to my (Hindu Indian) polished friend in the form of a small paragraph (as per your demand). Please, feel free to make corrections to polish my paragraph to enhance my interactive skills. After all I am in DESPERATE need to be UNDERSTOOD and to be HEARD on CHOWK as I do not have any life other than chowk.

Arright, here is what I wish to say.

There is circumstantial evidence on chowk (as also evidenced by your interactions ) suggesting that some of the Indian interactors language and communications skills are declined which is the main reason they are engaged in sarcasm, negativity, useless arguments, Muslim hatred and name calling 24/ 7 @ chowk on every board of front page. Main reason, I believe is poor language in expressions and communications to be understood poorly. Yes, sir , your polished self didn`t hesitate for a second to retaliate against all Muslims in general and against me in particular. Mind it, fights always depict highly UNPOLISHED language skills due to poor language skills to communicate properly. What I see here is , YOU ARE JUST BABBLING with your ONLINERS without even contributing anything positive to the board,but,to wish all Muslims should die by mentioning their end is numbered. So, this is the proof of your HIGHLY POLISHED language skills that you come up again and again with your one liners targeting me exclusively for absolutely NO reason, except that I am Pakistani and Muslim, that shows your prejudice towards me.

Another suggestion for your polished self is to join a program which provides not only a practical vocabulary and effective conversational skills, but the means to continually enhance your language abilities to broaden the horizon of your individual language knowledge interactions which will enhance your polishedness more and more and you will be able to come up with more extensive ideology instead of POLISHED ONE LINERS and you will be the brightest STAR on this web site. Thank you

Good luck. (You do not need to waste another of your polished interaction on me). Just focus on the main topic.Thank you .
Sincerely
(an unpolished Pakistani Muslim well-wisher)

John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt have already been labeled anti-Semitic. Though it appears at least one professor is a Jew himself. (Going by the last name only, could be wrong.)

Since that jealous insignificant “beej” of an insect is spamming this board (like he did another one with Gandhi pictures-We know when he goes off his rocker- Full moon perhaps!), I thought it would be a good idea to let people know what is kosher and what is not because after this post that insignificant Beej would post all the pages from AIPAC site. Insect!

Here is Alan Dershowitz`s checklist of what constitutes anti-Semitic criticism of Israel and which legitimate criticism of Israel is.

It reads like ...you are a redneck if…

There is another list (below this )of what is kosher. I hope people stay within the boundaries set by or Alan or THEY MIGHT BE ANI-Semitic!

A CHECKLIST OF FACTORS THAT TEND TO INDICATE ANTI-SEMITISM

1. Employing stereotypes against Israel that have traditionally been directed against ``the Jews.`` For example, portraying Israel as devouring the blood of children or characterizing Israeli leaders with long hook noses or rapacious looks.

2. Comparing Israel to the Nazis or its leaders to Hitler, the German army, or the Gestapo.

3. Characterizing Israel as “the worst,” when it is clear that this is not an accurate comparative assessment.

4. Invoking anti-Jewish religious symbols or caricaturing Jewish religious symbols.

5. Singling out only Israel for sanctions for policies that are widespread among other nations, or demanding that Jews be better or more moral than others because of their history as victims.

6. Discriminating against individuals only because they are Jewish Israelis, without regard to their individual views or actions.

7. Emphasizing and stereotyping certain characteristics among supporters of Israel that have traditionally been used in anti-Semitic attacks, for example, “pushy” American Jews, Jews “who control the media,” and Jews “who control financial markets.”

8. Blaming all Jews or “the Jews” for Israel’s policies or imperfections.

9. Physically or verbally attacking Jewish institutions, such as synagogues or cemeteries, as a means of protesting against Israel.

10. Stereotyping all Jews as fitting into a particular political configuration (such as “neo- conservatives,” Zionists, or supporters of Sharon).

11. Accusing Jews and only Jews of having dual loyalty.

12. Blaming Israel for the problems of the world and exaggerating the influence of the Jewish state on world affairs.

13. Denying, minimizing, or trivializing the Holocaust as part of a campaign against Israel.

14. Discriminating against only Israel in its qualification for certain positions or statuses, such as on the Security Council, the International Court of Justice, and the International Red Cross.

15. Blaming the Jews or Israel, rather than the anti-Semites, for anti-Semitism or for increases in anti-Jewish attitudes.

16. Taking extreme pleasure from Israeli failures, imperfections, or troubles.

17. Falsely claiming that all legitimate criticism of Israeli policies is immediately and widely condemned by Jewish leaders as anti-Semitic, despite any evidence to support this accusation.

18. Denying that even core anti-Semitism— racial stereotypes, Nazi comparisons, desecration of synagogues, Holocaust denial—qualifies as anti-Semitic.

19. Seeking to de-legitimate Israel precisely as it moves toward peace.

20. Circulating wild charges against Israel and Jews, such as that they were responsible for the September 11 attacks, the anthrax attacks, and the 2005 tsunami.

You are NOT anti-Semitic if:

1. The criticism is directed at specific policies of Israel, rather than at the very legitimacy of the state.

2. The degree and level of criticism vary with changes in Israel’s policies.

3. The criticism is comparative and contextual.

4. The criticism is political, military, economic, and so forth, rather than ethnic or religious.

5. The criticism is similar to criticism being raised by mainstream Israeli dissidents.

6. The criticism is leveled by people who have a history of leveling comparable criticisms at other nations with comparable or worse records.

7. The criticism is designed to bring about positive changes in Israeli policies.

8. The criticism is part of a more general and comparative criticism of all other nations.

9. The criticism is based on objective facts rather than name calling or polemics.

10. The critic subjects his favorite nation to comparable criticism for comparable faults.

tahmed32 # 419

``it is merely a question of the squeaky wheel getting the most attention, while the real sufferers of the world are not heard from.``

PRECISELY!

Terrorists and their sympathizers essentially assert: forget the injustices and inequities, trouble and tribulations elsewhere. Give me what I and my friends want. Or I will blow you up and kill your children.

Giving in to this convoluted logic will be disastrous for everyone - not only for the victims of terrorism but also for the welfare of terrorists and their sympathizers. Any system that assigns the logic of terrorism any validity will destroy itself.

#415, Stuka {``Fact: Jews are scumbags.
Fact: Muslims are by and large such unlovable arseholes that non-Muslims end up loving whoever the Muslims hate.
Fact: Hindus fit above hypothesis more or less.

Hypothesis of above article: If Muslims want other non Muslims to hate Jews, Muslims need to be come more lovable. ``}

Stuka,

Stuka,
I agree with your second fact. Yes, Muslims seem to go out of their way to earn the hatred of non Muslims and sometimes even other Muslims. All the sympathy generated by the good Bosnian Muslims as they heroically defended, suffered, and died just for having Muslim names, was erased by the violent jihadists. If Islam is going to be hated by non-Muslims, and that hatred is justified by the evil that Muslims perpetrate, then I say there is no need for this great religion. Islam is there for non-Muslims and not reserved for the true believers - most of whom already have reservations in hell according to Islamic principles.

Re: # 402

Zeena on my #382

zeemax is not my another nick. I was just giving you some advice. After all you write to be understood, don`t you? So should not you polish your language?

#425

Are you saying that the events described in #423 are not accurate? If so, please identify what is off.

On another note, I`m sorry I beat up on you a bit earlier.

But NOBODY in their right mind praises those who praise insurgents of the variety sent in from Pakistan into India, and you did pat Hate Pot`s back!

So your ``reward`` was well-earned and there`s plenty more where that came from!

(Perhaps I could have given you the benefit of doubt by accounting for your advancing age and written it off to an onset of senility - probably a more accurate situation for mian Tauheed - but I chose not to. I decided to keep your ``young and vigorous`` image.)

bj,

..... you have lost all credibility with me ...... anyone who reads the ny daily news is barely one step above those who read the national inquirer and usa today !

Note:

I knew I shouldn’t have read this thing again!

(By the way, if the author had bothered to read NHK’s article, she would realize that using the term “Jew” is considered to be in poor taste (not that such trivialities bother some people) and using the term “Jewish people” is the right way to say it.)

[I do not know of anyone who has not suffered from a persecution complex.]
The author needs to visit an optometrist right away – perhaps he/she can prescribe new glasses to extend her vision a little past her own nose tip.

[The Jews went a step further and decided to do it with finesse. They took on the Other’s mantle and took over it. It was a smart strategy to seem to be a contributor and yet retain your distinct identity.]
Actually, all they tried to do was to survive – mostly on an individual basis. There were no magic wands to wave. The above self-confident statement reveals a lousy stereotype – it’s not even funny!

[Of all the peoples in the world, it is the Jews who have enshrined the Persecution Complex – by using it as a trump card, by making demands, by genuinely exposing their hurt, by capitalising on its dramatic potential and, most important of all, by rising above it.]
Except for that last note, this statement is nothing but stereotyping of the worst kind! And even with the last part – there is stereotyping taking place! Not every Jewish person is successful at everything such a person does.

[There is a lesson in this for the Muslims to acquire the two ‘P’s: public relations and a good dose of persecution.]
There it is – ``the Muslims`` – that great Muslim “ummah” thingie again! Do all Muslims form a homogeneous entity? And is the author putting into practice what she is preaching here? (If said in jest, it is one of the most insensitive lines I have ever seen.)