Kibbutz Criminals

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(Note: From the ADL web page entitled “How Children Learn and Unlearn Prejudice”)

Prejudice is contagious. When people are afraid or have actually been hurt, it may be a natural response to want to hurt back. But hurting one another only escalates the hatred and violence - and the differences don`t go away. We live in a world of differences -different races, religions, cultures, sexual orientations, abilities. The differences can seem strange and overwhelming, even frightening. In an effort to cope, we may all find ourselves wanting just to stay with. ``our own kind,`` avoiding people who aren`t like us, sometimes resorting to hurtful words and actions ourselves to manage our fears. At the beginning of this new century and millennium, we must deal with our differences - in schools and workplaces, in books and newspapers, on television and online, even in our own families.

Prejudice is only one way of dealing with differences. Instead, we can learn to respect differences, to see them as a source of strength in our lives and society, even celebrate them. In place of prejudice, we can teach acceptance and understanding. Meeting this challenge requires both preparation and practice.

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zeemax #408 ``Palestinians are after all mostly Muslim and subject to perhaps the most visible and blatant injustice in the entire world``

both are pakistani misconceptions. a significant portion (i think it is close to half, but havent checked) of palestinians are christians. more importantly, there is no communal distinction within palestinians (of the kind we have in spades in the sub-continent). the keepers of the christian church which stands where christ was supposedly crucified itself are muslim - descendants of a family that was given this job by salahuddin ayubi when the christians were fighting among themselves to have custody of the church, and ayubi gave the job to a neutral, i.e. muslim, family. that is how deep the roots of solidarity and freedom from communal feeling are among palestinians.

as for ``injustice``, as i provided evidence earlier - it is not a black and white issue. compared to the injustices in the world (including the ones done to women of the weak and poor in our own beloved pakistan and in other developing countries), the ``injustice`` to palestinians is nothing.

it is merely a question of the squeaky wheel getting the most attention, while the real sufferers of the world are not heard from.

#415 Stuka

So which one are you? A Jewish person, a Hindu, or a Muslim?

Or could it be - no, it could not be - no way!

Could it be that you are this person?

That would certainly explain the irrationality.

zeemax #404 ``Thing I lament is that Pak has no direction``

8.4% GNP growth rate is great speed (second best in Asia after China) and in the right direction (economic progress).

Other problems fix themselves - since, as a central theme of Marx (one of the few things he got right), was the social and political structures adjust to fit what he called the ``mode of production`` (translation: economy).

Only trouble is, as the urdu saying goes, the smell of poverty sticks for a few generations even after poverty has been removed. That is why chowk so easily becomes a cesspool. the subcontinent still has a few generations to go before the smell of poverty is removed - even though poverty is over for the individuals concerned.

#412 by FarzanaVersey on March 26, 2006 12:22pm PT


I am amazed at the ‘ghetto mentality’ displayed in this post.


What amazes me is that you`re batting for the wrong ghetto..

Dubya visits India: OUTRAGE!! protests!! rights of the iraqis..

Harvard report: OUTRAGE!! Jews are evil and now we have proof..

Bombs in varanasi: Did I tell you about my benarsi sari....

Fact: Jews are scumbags.

Fact: Muslims are by and large such unlovable arseholes that non-Muslims end up loving whoever the Muslims hate.

Fact: Hindus fit above hypothesis more or less.

Hypothesis of above article: If Muslims want other non Muslims to hate Jews, Muslims need to be come more lovable.

My Comment: Jews are scumbags who screw you and u don`t even know you are getting screwed. Muslims are fooling themselves if they think they can aspire to those levels of duplicity and intellectual sphistication.

Re: # 412

fv,

....... maybe i am just suffering from ``ummah cause`` fatigue - kashmir, bosnia, palestine, france, denmark, arizona, phillipines, australia, that poor girl in london who was kicked out of school for wearing a jilbab, hyderabad, poona, paris, gujarat, myanmar, that poor man in portland who was kicked off a plane for not shaving, nigeria, friday afternoon meetings that are scheduled to prevent abdul from praying .............. and on and on and on ..........

....... there is nothing wrong with rooting for the underdog and fighting for the spotted owl, but come on! ....... admit it, a lot of muslims just love to wallow in self-pity and go around blaming all their woes on jews and other assorted enemies of god ............... and in my experience im`s are the worst of the lot ........ maybe i am exposed to the wrong crowd, but it seems to me that they are more preoccupied with muslim causes than even the pious pakis (other than kashmir, on which they keep silent out of fear for their scrawny necks- weasels!) .................. actually they are always accusing the pakis of not being muslim enough and hold us responsible for invoking earthquakes, tsunamis and other natural disasters ............ every time i show up at a gathering of believers from the subcontinent, invariably some indian muslim, usually from hyderabad, starts whining about the plight of the palestinians and then launches into a tirade against the jews ........ and inspite of the fact that i am usually fortified with a couple of gin and tonics, i can barely stop myself from slapping the headwagger and renouncing my faith right there and then - who needs you! ..........

...............but the wafting aroma of mutton biryani keeps me from leaving the ummah ............

#409 by zeemax, #407 by Salim_Chauhan

Even EU like arrangement with Pakistan is many decades off. It’s a great dream, but still a dream.

Turkey is pretty secular by Arab standards. However:

a) EU consists of countries that are secular to bone and armies are not required to keep an eye on the elected representatives lest they lapse into their old religion like in Turkey
b) they are roughly at same political maturity level
c) there are no territorial claims on each other’s current state boundaries

EU is resisting Turkey’s entry mainy for a) and b). Eventually, it will get there but will have to keep working on it.

Pakistan on the other hand:

a) is not a secular country – getting deeper in 7th century arab traditions day by day?
b) has fought wars and claims Indian state and therefore there is no love lost between the two countries
c) is way behind in democratic traditions and political maturity
d) is falling behind in education and economic development and
e) as if that’s not enough, Pakistanis think that they have some kind of superior gene pool that enabled them to “rule” over Indians. They need to get handle on their attitude.

So, where does that leave us?

Step 1 – LOC as the final international boundary – not a frozen line to be revived later
Step 2 - Bilateral business relationship to fullest that benefits both sides
Step 3 - people to people relationship at sports and other levels for long time until Pakistanis catch up with democratic, secular and economic growth levels.

EU structure is much more evolved, almost like ¾th marriage/unification. We are at least 50 years away from realizing this great dream even if Pakistan starts moving towards it today in all sincerity, not just empty BS but deeds.

388 by hamidm2:

I am amazed at the ‘ghetto mentality’ displayed in this post.

[why do pakis and indian muslims get so worked up about jews and palestinians ........ ]

Why not? Today, we cannot expect societies to live in their cocoons, not if what others go through is projected on to them.

You go on to say…

[for the life of me i don`t see why a head-wagging hyderabadi im gets all worked up about them ......... maybe he feels it is safer than getting worked up about kashmir and getting whacked by his horrible hindoo neighbors ........ but then im`s are a strange lot - a lot stranger than the clueless pakis who are still trying to figure out which way is up ............. i give up]

This is such a patronising and insulting comment. It isn’t that all of Indian Muslims are rooting for the Palestinian cause. The one who started it was Indira Gandhi, anyway, and India was among the first countries to recognise the state. So, if its largest minority – and only some amongst it – do support the cause, what is the problem?

In the US, you have several groups taking up causes. Come on, Tibet is just so stylish and in. Do you object to that? Hollywood stars go around as UN ambassadors to places they might never have heard of and they get feted for it. Jane Fonda and Vanessa Redgrave fought for causes, and that was okay.

IMs have little time getting “worked up”, but depending on what their opinion is on a particular issue, they will support it, be it Palestine or Kashmir. Someone has put up a story about a Mumbai Muslim organisation “condemning the Varanasi blasts”.

Why is no one asking why IMs should be condemning something they have nothing to do with and are clueless about?

[........ when most of them have enough troubles of their own ............ personally, it is very difficult for me to get excited about palestine ....... i have barely enough compassion and passion for one cause - kashmir - which by all accounts is not going too well either ......... now, as far as i can tell from watching tv, the palestinians are much better fed and clothed than the unwashed masses that sleep on the sidewalks of bombay and karachi and then get up to watch the sunrise as they squat on the railroad tracks ......... it sounds romantic, but they tell me that, once in a while, they get run over by train and it is not a pretty sight]

Who told you that we do not comment on and write about these issues? It is another matter that one gets accused of debasing everything Indian. Has it struck you that the troubles some have is because of the image that people have formed about others who happen to profess the same faith? No doubt Palestinians are better fed and clothed, but it is not because of the Israelis…most are displaced and yet have found the drive to educate themselves. We have heard a lot about the Jews everyone here seems to know. How many Palestinians do you know?

And not all Palestinians are Muslim. Remember Hanan Ashrawi? These are educated people – over 90 per cent literacy, mostly professionals.

This is an excerpt from my earlier article:

While the natives whose families lived on this land for thousands of years are not allowed to return, Jews from all over the world are welcome to instant citizenship. Even as peace talks are carried on, settlements come up, armed with the most sophisticated weapons. Negotiations are one-sided – Palestinians can have their municipalities but the borders, water, airspace, and anything else of importance remains an Israeli domain. Such gumption is made possible only because there is an American Israel Public Affairs Committee that can make all the forces of the world powerless against it, including the UN, as the American veto is there to block any condemnation of Israeli war crimes.

Some revered figures committed massacres and later became Prime Ministers. In 1948, Menachem Begin’s unit slaughtered the inhabitants of Deir Yassin. In 1953, Ariel Sharon led the slaughter of the inhabitants of Qibya, and in 1982 arranged for their allies to butcher around 2,000 in the refugee camps of Sabra and Shatilla.

He had once declared, “We must hit, hit and hit them incessantly…not by means of large-scale war. Suddenly someone disappears there, someone is found dead here and somewhere else someone is found stabbed to death in a European nightclub. (Shalom or Salaam)

[........ given this underlying strain of anti-semitism the jewish community has to be vigilant if they want to prevent another holocaust at the hands of the followers of jesus - a delusional man they supposedly murdered ........ and if that wasn`t enough, a billion hate filled suicidal followers of another delusional man, muhammad, have decided to cast them as the ``enemy``]

If this isn’t being alarmist, then what is? Your Carl at least does not have to go around ‘condemning’ Israeli attacks on Palestinians.

Here, an IM speaking about a Mafia group within a community is called anti-Jew, but all Islamic terrorists clubbed with Muslims is fine.

As regards victimhood, that is another projection. It is others who want IMs to feel like victims; and anyone who does not cower is forced to live with that label to satiate their fragile egos.

I am just glad to say that at Chowk criticism of both Pakistani and Indian Systems has come from people who live in these countries.

Zeemax

Leila Khalid is/was no greater hero than any other terrorist.

For most of us, there is no reason to know any more about the plight of Palestinians than about the traumas suffered by the Druze, the Tibbetans, the Armenians or many others. Besides, in any framework that is not exclusively religious, participation of Christian Palestinians in the common struggle for the rights of all Palestians - Christian or Muslim - would constitute hackneyed news.

``We hijacked planes because the whole world was deaf when we were screaming from our tents, and nobody heard our suffering. Until the beginning of the revolution in 1967, Palestinians were only dealt with as people needing humanitarian aid, not as people with a cause. We had to use tactics to attract international attention. And afterward, the world asked ‘who are the Palestinians? Why are they doing this? How could a woman do such a thing?’ So it worked, just posing the question.``

Leila Khalid.

#407 by Salim_Chauhan

Not reunification, but an EU like structure is totally workable.

#406 by kaalchakra

Well .. the `reasonable` people who know that region`s history do not view it from a purely religious angle. It does however arouse religious passion amongst Muslims because Palestinians are after all mostly Muslim and subject to perhaps the most visible and blatant injustice in the entire world. It is a matter of kinship.

Indeed, the fact that the Palestinian movement itself was originated by prominent Christian Palestinians alongside Arafat is conveniently ignored.