Kibbutz Criminals

HP and Ramanujan,
Partition is done and over with, as are the Tsunami, the earthquake of October, 2005, and the earthquakes in Gujarat and Maharashtra. And yes, thank God, so are the massacres of `47, the massacres of Gujarat 2002, and the horrible tragedy in East Pakistan in 1971. I believe that all of these were immense tragedies and the great loss of human life and ensuing misery could have been averted, had our leaders been blessed with vision and compassion.

I personally would have resisted partition had I been around. But, from what I have read and heard, the issues were far more complex than merely the creation of a homeland for Muslims.

The clear result in perfect 20/20 hindsight is that partition was wrong. Concentrating on the future, I am convinced that the best course for both India and Pakistan is a complete removal of hostility, cooperation in trade and commerce, decrease in military numbers and arsenals, and a commitment for the welfare of the people of the subcontinent. Resolving Kashmir on the lines of the present LoC, democratic governments in both halves of Kashmir, open borders, demilitarization of populated areas, and prioritized cooperation for industry, education, healthcare, and human rights should be our focus. If this leads to reunification - fine, if it leads to better lives for Indians and Pakistanis - even better. If it leads to the destined great continental power, dedicated to peace and prosperity, justice and security, then that`s the best outcome for all. Thanks.

zeemax

Whatever its economic condition, Palestine`s singular hold on the imaginations of some Indians and Pakistanis defies all explanation. These are reasonable people who would not be accused of viewing the world from a purely religious angle. What gives?

#402 by Zeena

ZeenaJi,

I thought you ordered me as ``So, leave my ideology alone.`` in your #376. So I`m duly walking respectfully two steps behind with head bowed and arms clasped :-)

P.S. No I`m not einsteinwallah.

#399 by hamidm2

it is hard to get worked up about palestine, the spotted owl and global warming .....

Haha ... true. Yes you`re right. Well, Pak is not exactly slipping and sliding, but it is kind of slithering around in circles chasing its own tail in mud. Thing I lament is that Pak has no direction, while commendably India does. Has always done. Perhaps Pak will acquire it someday. I`m not entirely despondent.

Re: # 400 by Myself

And this cancer-like characteristic of Islam is not limited to India. It`s everywhere, and people around the globe have begun to feel its impact. In China, under the most liberal rulers af any time, the Chinese Muslims started the demand for a separate homeland under their ``Allah``. In Myanmar, under a completely secular regime, and even before, Muslims have started demanding a separate homeland. France was smart enough to realize what`s coming and have tightened their immigration laws. But it`s a matter of time before there, too this will happen.

I think this aspect of Islam will be recognized for what it is when eventually the Europeans, Americans and Australians pay serious attention to this issue.

This is an issue for the rest of the civilized world to unite over.

And one can only look forward in hope that the day will come when this cancer will be surgically removed from this world. One can only hope that that day comes sooner, rather than later.

#382 by einsteinwallah on March 26, 2006 3:31am PT
{{Zeena, You should not type any vowels, spaces, commas, stops, question marks etc in your interacts. We will just know that you do not wish to be understood. Same advice can be given to a lot of Paki interactors and writers here. Or, better still just do not bother writing interacts. It is so much better. No hard work of typing, spellcheck, thinking etc etc. You will save your time and other people`s time}}}

einsteinwallah sir
So, zeemax is your another nick? My post was for him. Not for you, sir.

Interactions on chowk is my perorgative just like everyone else as long as I interact under chowk interact guidelines. If, you or your other nick zeemax has any problem in reading my posts, complaint it to chowk staff to remove my interacts if they don`t fit in to your mindset and if they are great pressure and burden on your already pressured and smart minds. Thank you.

#396 by jang

Jang, forget the per capita GDP/other figures. These are according to purchasing power parity for comparison e.g Pakistan`s 2005 GDP is $385.2 billion when it`s actually only $92.2 billion. Look at the following rates according to CIA World Factbook:

West Bank
Population below poverty line: 46%

Gaza
Population below poverty line: 81%

It goes on to say ``Unemployment has continued at half the labor force.``

#350 by HP

[So the issue was never persecution but demand of a separate homeland by the people of some provinces in India who had a legitimate rights on their lands Such as Sindh, Punjab, NWFP and Bengal and they were not a minority in those areas. ]

Yet another post by someone quite devoid of any intellectual integrity.

Most Muslims in India were converts from Hinduism or descendents of converts from Hinduism, SO THE FACT THAT THEY BELONGED TO THE LAND HAS NEVER BEEN IN DOUBT. WHAT HAS BEEN IN DOUBT IS THEIR RIGHT TO DIVIDE UP THE COUNTRY BASED ON THEIR IMPORTED BEDOUIN CULTURE AND BEDOUIN RELIGIOUS IDENTITY.

Today Assam is about 30+% Muslim. With their high multiplication rates and illegal immigration rates, they will be crossing the 50% mark soon. And they will start demanding their own Dar-Us-Salam under their accursed Allah. And Hindus who have lived in that land for thousands of years will be kicked out.

THIS KIND OF SPREAD AND MULTIPLICATION OF THIS CANCER CANNOT AND SHOULD NOT BE TOLERATED. BUT WITH A FEW MORE ``SUCCOOLAR`` POLITICIANS, THIS, TOO, WILL BE ACHIEVED EVENTUALLY.

Re: # 395

zeemax,

......... you are right, i have not seen anyone sleeping on the sidewalk in karachi because i haven`t been there in twenty years - it was just a figure of speech .......... but in the last few years have seen laborers sleeping on the median in the middle of the road in islamabad - a sight that i had never seen in my entire life growing up in that area ......... and i am not surprised since a three room ``portion`` rents for more than thirty thousand a month while a day laborer still makes a hundred a day when he is lucky enough to find work ....... the common paki refrain that i hear is, ``oh, but we don`t have the abject poverty that exists in india,`` and that might be true, but it is a hollow comparison and should not be a source of consolation because it is a fact that the horrible hindoos are making visible progress whereas we seem to be slipping and sliding .........

...... given the magnitude of our own problems, it is hard to get worked up about palestine, the spotted owl and global warming .....

Jang, Zeemax

As always, reality can be altered by redefining concepts.

In discussing Palestine, some people use a `relaxed definition of unemployment.``

#359, Arstoo Janab,
Being defensive about one`s shortcomings or the weaknesses of one`s position is unfortunately a normal reaction. Thank you for your appreciation of a more useful approach and for some excellent and pertinent shaaery. :)

If we could analyze the sincere comments from our critics and understand why they make them, we could benefit from their research and improve ourselves. If we respond to their comments with even more hateful ones in reprisal, we only add to their ammunition. Thanks.

world bank says the per capita gdp is about $1300, unemployment is abotu 23% and growth is 8+ % (good growth for last 2 years) and population growth very high.

http://siteresources.worldbank.org/INTWESTBANKGAZA/Data/20751555/EMR.pdf

numbers are much lower that those for israel, but prolly comparable to egypt or jordan.

#390 by mohar11/Hamidm2

the so called ``occupied`` abduls of palestine have a per capita income a few times more than abduls in pakistan and India....

Really? With unemployment at 50%?

And hamidmJi ... when did you last see anyone sleeping on the sidewalk in Karachi? (barring ``heroin-chis`` i.e.). You must be as delusional as any other coconut (hairy and brown on the outside, white on the inside`.

#390

i think ferzanas anti-joo feeling is in solidarity for her community, it is unlikely to be a deeply felt personal feeling. for rest of the indians, palestinian cause is generally popular, people will discuss it over chai, but there is an aobvious lack of passion. for most indian muslims it would be the same, except for the friday khutbas. in any case, for indians, there is no wide-ranging anti-joo feeling, just sympathy for palestinian cause. this is natural, since most indians have little to do with the joos at large and indian joos are almost invisible..the ones in mumbai even participate in marathi plays and wear mangalsutra so most people dont even know that they are joos..they will prolly think its some different baba they follow.

so ferzana is like the mulla. mulla needs a nice topic for the khutba, hellfire and brimstones, down down someone etc. ferzana also needs a topic. so she creates a synthetic anti-joo khutba for her community congregation (i mean the pakis). the back bencher khalid ahmed dared shout out and was removed summarily .. (in stark contrast to behram).

hamidm: ``when most of them have enough troubles of their own``

agreed.

i wonder what masadi or malik or urstruly would have to say about this story in the NYT today of the pakistani woman who was forced into prostitution, is now living in hiding from the pakistani courts with her husband who took are out of the prostitution den and married her. Note also the khan sahib sob who kidnapped this woman and how he actually sheds tears about his bloody ``honor`` in this video.

i guess these gentlemen have more important things to shed their - the US elite, the palestinians - to be concerned about the misery caused to their own people by a primitive culture and a primitive court system glorified by the name of islam.

i look forward to ms. ferzana versey writing an article on this.

the story is on nyt.com

passerby: `` this cesspool could yet be turned into a clean little pond.``

Amen.