Kibbutz Criminals

Ferzana,
I agree with most of what you write however I am against what you call using Holocaust as a Trump Card.

Which community or Religious group in the world lost 40% of it`s population(6 Million) or so ever?

Most of the Muslims that I know have a tendency to mix Palestenian issues with Jewish Holocaust comparisions or using Trump card( in your words).

In my $.02 it makes the Muslim cause look weaker and their energies are wasted in proving that Holocaust never happened as oppose to fight for their own issues.

Hollywood, that controls what Americans look, believe, shape, model after is dominated by Jews.
Stock Markets are dominated by Jews, All the major important role-players in American Circles have Jews in prominent position, and it is not because of some conspiracy but because of their competency.

I was hoping that you would not stereotype Jews with a wand to bring Palestenian issues.

Have you ever analysed or studied the contribution of Jews to the modern life as you and I see it? You have to unmask your hatred first to see what they contributed.

Dear writer. I find the title “Kibbutz Criminals” entirely offensive as I studied Kibbutz and wrote my graduate dissertation on Kibbutz (Kuvtza) and self-management. Such a title to write about Israelis is no different from writing a piece on Mukhran Mai titled “Vagina treatment as prescribed in Quran and Shariah”. You can still make your point without the need to sound overtly sensational, and if Muslims took their heads out of Jews’ ass, they might be able to find some reason to live their lives.

Farzana,

Great article. The Jew example is indeed intriguing.

But ......the two ‘P’s: public relations and a good dose of persecution.... is too simplistic.

Where Jews are today, is because of much more than that. Let me describe some characteristics, not necessarily in this order:

1) No belief in boundaries.
2) No belief in any country`s laws.
3) Totally rational thought process.
4) Totally trustworthy with friends.
5) An uncanny perception / understanding of human nature, indeed to the extent of reading a person like a book with a single glance.
6) Brilliant business sense and acumen.
7) Single-minded work ethic ... money not that important as is deemed, but merely necessary for a good life, and they LOVE living well.

They don`t like discussing religion and switch off when led, but I suspect their unique confidence regardless of any diversity, does have something to do with their being `chosen`.

Perhaps they are ...

Re: # 18 ``and if Muslims took their heads out of Jews’ ass, they might be able to find some reason to live their lives. ``

Not sure if they want to Kul. The view is much better inside than out.

Re the holocaust ... the Jews I have known .. and believe me I have known a lot .. including Israeli Jews .. never even mention it. It just happened for them and life goes on. They don`t hold it out against anyone ... not even the Germans.

Zeema.. Whoppi is not an authientic jew.

The Islamist veil has finally come off(and burnt for good measure)..

Dubya visits India: Righteous indignation!! protests!!

Paper on the Israeli lobby: Those EVILLLL jews!!

Varanasi bombs kill Indians: Did I tell you abour the benarasi sari...

I haven’t heard of a Sikh gangster or a Jain gangster. Perhaps well knit communities reach out to their delinquents, use saam, daam, daNd & bhed to reform them. If nothing works, disown them.

Re: # 13, parthaab:

Your questions/suggestions are relevant.

But remember recognition of the rights of minorities DOES NOT mean putting them on higher pedestal. Also, we have to operate in a realistic un-faultfree melieu. That means that people have to, unavoidably, contend with personal prejudices. Each person - and only a personal level - is entitled to his/her prejudices.

There will always be de facto preferences of the majority community everywhere in the world. But the wisdom lies in undermining the personal prejudices via a legal representation of the minority fairly in the court of operations. There should be no de jure discrimination. Remember de facto discrimination operates in a much arena than religious minorities. What we need to learn to distinguish between, is: personal right to conduct one`s own business with one`s personal choices versus legal/deliberate deprivation of the choices for the minorities.

To answer to your specific points:

Quota system is not the best policy for the development of a society. There may be 3 % employment because the educational level of the minority is not up to par.

Specifically, for Muslims, may be instead of focusing on the Madarsa education they should attend the regular schools to prepare themselves better for the society`s needs. They should learn to operate in the society as a whole not its 10% corner.

As far as residences are concerned the ``forced integration`` is not a panacea as is clear from US experience, but no doubt there should be encouragements for the voluntary integration. That is done not by quota system but by spreading education where there is a recognition of the importance of the diversity and consequent enrichment.

One critical factor encouraging the multiplication of interfaces between the Hindus and Muslims can be dicouragement of religious conversion subsequent to marriages as the level for the integration is being corrected by the younger generations which are more educated and more free from the poison of religious intolerance.

De-emphasis on the divisive force of religion can also be a societal force towards the integration. It would be very helpful to desocialize the religions - Hindu as well as Islamic - and relegate them to personal level where they legitimately belong in a modern society. This would be not only helpful in reducing the Hindu/Muslim tension but also encourage development of fair play within Hinduism which is sorely needed..

``Of all the peoples in the world, it is the Jews who have enshrined the Persecution Complex – by using it as a trump card, by making demands, by genuinely exposing their hurt, by capitalising on its dramatic potential and, most important of all, by rising above it.``

Were Karl Marx, Trotsky and Richard Feynmann Jews who did what is stated above? What about secular groups in present day Israel?

Not all Jews are Zionists (and perhaps vice versa if you include some Hindutva types). Not all Jews feel persecuted and hurt. Jews, like Muslims, Hindus etc. are not a homogenous bunch. You yourself have opposed `bunching together` in the past....what gives now? You are keenly aware of stereotypes created by the media and like....what gives now? Why should Muslims try to achieve something together......or rather why should Hamid and Urstruly try to acquire the two P`s for YOU?

Re: # 13 parthab
[..Fundamentally, you should ask if you are tolerant or not, from the minorities you claim to `protect`...]

Good point.... that will be an interesting survey - Are the majority tolerant? I wonder how much %age IMs will say yes.... So why don`t you do that - take a survey around the country and see what people say...

Re: # 27:
parthaab: how many Muslims can turn around in a fashion parallel to mohar11?

naked anti-semitism from the lady steeped in islamist agenda .... same old ``yahoods bad, hinuds bad`` story.... un-f***ing-believable...

Is this just another example of creeping ummah-bug among indian muslims?.... how far is this islamic stupidity going to go?....

``Of all the peoples in the world, it is the Jews who have enshrined the Persecution Complex – by using it as a trump card, by making demands,``

``It was a smart strategy to seem to be a contributor and yet retain your distinct identity. ``

Nobel Prizes cannot be obtained by ``seeming`` to make contribution to the humanity.........nor can the thirst for knowledge got out of some `Holocoust High`. Jews have got out of this `people of the book` complex that much of the middle east muslim world suffers from...........they have made contribution by transgressing the theological prejudices which some how the arab world so deperately upholds.........instead of extolling the virtues of jewish ability to transgress it`s own collective thinking process ...you have talked about more ghettoism and collective nodding of heads for the muslims.(``you need to have a cohesive and committed community to create such an indelible image.
``)......................and extolled the virtues of `seeming` to make a contribution while `kicking the world hard`.............................and before we ask about the publicity thing...........OBL and his gang are on a publicity blitz..................can you try and stop them before you think about hiring another publicity manager??

Farzana {``So successful has been their attempt that their reputation can remain untarnished despite talk of the Mob, of bombs, of not giving peace a chance. Whatever be the flipside of the argument, you need to have a cohesive and committed community to create such an indelible image.``}

I really like this topic. It puts Muslims face-to-face with the success of a small minority of highly-accomplished people who, frankly, have cleaned our clocks recently. I admire Jews for their divisiveness in debate and unity in action. No people argue as much and as loudly as Jews and yet they have not had a civil war since the days when Israel and Judah were two separate nations - the only time in history when there were multiple Jewish states.

While we are quite aware of Jewish gangsters, as in the movie ``Mobsters,`` and Jewish terrorists like Irgun, Haganah, and Stern gangs, very few of us realize the source of real Jewish power. Yes, it is unity. Planning and unity. Education and unity. Tolerance of each other and unity. Debate over issues and unity. I have many Jewish friends in the US and quite a few in Turkey. I am pleased to note that I enjoy their company and prefer Jews to Arabs in general. These good people have a tolerant attitude and for the most part are quite fair, reasonable, and honest. Thank you for opening this very appropriate discussion - let`s see how the Ummah responds.

in summary..why is bombay underworld dominated by muslim dons? because they lack the jewish PR machine.