The Reality of the Looking Glass: Seeing Muhammad

Re: # 77

ahmedzai,

........ i don`t think the indians had anything to do with the bombing in karachi as you seem to suggest ....... it seems to be the work of mad men who love the prophet`s nephew and grandsons more than they love the prophet - imbeciles !......... but every crowd has a silver lining and it seems that most of the folks killed on the stage were of the bearded and turbaned variety ...... now, hopefully, these ashiqs-i-rasool (lovers of the prophet) will retaliate and take out a dozen or more equally turbaned and bearded yokels on the other side ......... black rats killing brown rats is not necessarily a bad thing - maybe it is the only way to rid mankind of this pestilence .......

#77 ahmadzai


If you think indians had anything to do with blowing up worshippers anywhere, you are much crazier than I thought you were.

I guess you live in such a morass of sectarian hatred, that you imagine everyone is like you and your religion.

Re: # 82

pmishra,

........... i don`t mean to scare you but a lot of indian muslims, specially hyderabadis, are deobandis like ahmedzai - they are all, every single one of them, on a very short fuse .......... by the way, i hope you know that deoband is in india ....... why don`t you guys shut down it down before it is too late ? ..........

#83 Deoband Seminary without a military compound and weapons is a toothless tiger. Those hyderabasis are prolly just trying to out-muslim you..indian muslims sometimes feel less muslim than paki, and paki less than arab ;-)

Pmishra at # 82:

“If you think indians had anything to do with blowing up worshippers anywhere, you are much crazier than I thought you were.”

Indians keep telling us that we are Indians too. My DNA is trying to get closer to you guys. I am 5% there where you are. I hope to be fully crazy like an average Indiot in 10-15 more years

;-)

Re: # 45
>>>>.Mohammed is an interesting figure but the lack of real information about him (versus fairy tales) makes it hard to appreciate his achievements<<<<

I have to disagree with u on this count. In fact there is plenty of historical facts about Mohamed documented by MUSLIM scholars, these are in addition to the fairy tales.
He was a merchant, clever and manipulative warrior, who rode on horse backs, used swords to slaughter Jews, and took their womenfolk as sex slaves. What more historical facts do you desire?

These truths are unpalatable to people born into Islam and they can not objectively look at these facts. As I said earlier, there are GOOD MUSLIMS who are good in heart Bhakthi Margis who see only good in Mohamed. That is fine, it is NONE of our business to point out Mohamed`s faults, if only Muslim SOCIETIES
(1) Respeect other societies and agree to abide by the rules and laws of the countries where they live. Now they want Sharia in Ontorio, and UK!
AND
(2) Stop unleashing Jehadi terror on rest of us

p.s
to those Pakistani converted Hindus vigorously posting about Manu Smiriti and caste system. Perhaps this is what you learned in your text books. 99% of Hindus have never even laid on this book, if you abuse this book on an Indian street people will cheer you. If you abuse Koran in Pak (or for that matter in India) u will be lynched on the spot!!!!!!

re: jang # 84

But jang sahib, ideas kill, not guns. Without ideas, guns are worthless pieces of metal and wood. Without guns, ideas will find a hundred other ways to kill.

{{{{#78 by ahmadzai on April 12, 2006 7:11am PT
I would like to express my regrets on two interactors that I hold in highest regard viz. Monto and Zeena to very carelessly equate Deobandi school of thought with Al Qaidah and Wahabism.

I am utterly disappointed to see that the two very learned interactors have opted to fall into the trap that has been laid by the powers that be to divide the Muslims.

While as a Deobandi, I am totally against pompous overly gaudy showing of respect for our Holy Prophet (saww) through participating in Milads and Jalsas, I am also of the view that no one can question Deobandis on their love for the Holy Prophet and the fellow humans. }}}}

#78 ahmadzai sahib jii

Singhaii, pakhair raghalay. Tolla musliman tha kana, stara mushay?(Sorry for my broken roman Pushto)

I apologize if you got offended by any of my statement on other boards.

1:-With all due respect, I did not mention any sort of discussion about Wahabism or Al Qaida on this article.

Even if I did in other discussions in other articles on other boards I still hold the same opinion, that I do not believe in any sect in Islam. I believe all are Muslims, no shiats, sunni, deobandi, wahabis etc etc. If someone asks me, if I am sunni or shia or etc etc, I always firmly say, ``I am neither, I am Muslim, No doubt about it.``

As for as Al Qaida is, I condemn it`s terrorist activities in Pakistan, Afghanistan and worldwide. They are shame for all Muslims. As for as Wahabis are, they are the ones to divide Muslims in to Kafir and non kafir groups. Whoever doesn`t agree with their school of thoughts is KAFIR. They remind me of a dictatorship in Islam. They are the ones who have hijacked Islam and are contruding it to suit their minds and life styles. They are giving bad name to Muslims. Well in fact they themselves are,but Muslims.

2:-As for as Milads and Jalsas and showing pompous respect for the Prophet(PBUH) is I do not mind ,if people do that without harming any one. That is their own way of expressing their love for their religious figure. I am all for the freedom of expression, but with responsibility. I never went to any milad or jalsas myself. But, I admire others doing that and showing enthusiasm and love for their Prophet(PBUH). I respect their emotions and their celebrations. They have all the right to CELEBRATE whatever they wish to as long as their celebrations are not harmless and benign.

To be honest rather I love to see all the decorations in bazaars when I am in Pakistan. I love all those festivities and processions with colorful banners and naats . I believe in one thing only,``Live and let live.``

ahmadzai sahib jii

tolla Muslim da kanaa, zamaa religion Islam , your religion Islam(sorry for my poor roman pushto)

Re: # 83 hamidm
[...you know that deoband is in india ....... why don`t you guys shut down it down before it is too late ? ...]

Just say the word :)..... but then we would have a bunch of whiners cry their a$$ off on minority rights and what not.... Besides - they have been quite tame on our side of the border.... so we would rather just let them be for time being....

BTW - Where do you meet all these Indian Muslism you say are fanatics?.... we hinuds have been chest-beating for a while how our muslims are all doodh ke dhule - never participated in global jihad and all that...... I mean, we know some are getting recruited for ``jihad in mainland``, but didn`t know the problem is that bad.....

Re: # 87 kaal

True.... but at this point - any pre-emptive action is probably not warranted....

Re: # 89
>>>>. but then we would have a bunch of whiners cry their a$$ off on minority rights and what not.... Besides - they have been quite tame on our side of the border.... so we would rather just let them be for time being.<<<<<.

Also it will instantly prove to Pukis that we are not secular.

Sorry for typo in #88

Please, omit (no)

{{They have all the right to CELEBRATE whatever they wish to as long as their celebrations are harmless and benign. }}

Re: # 86

correction:
p.s
to those Pakistani converted Hindus vigorously posting about Manu Smiriti and caste system. Perhaps this is what you learned in your text books. 99% of Hindus have never even laid THEIR EYES on this book, if you abuse this book on an Indian street people will cheer you. If you abuse Koran in Pak (or for that matter in India) u will be lynched on the spot!!!!!!

#86 bharath

Of course, there is a lot of research into mohammed`s life and times. But the point is that most muslims aren`t interested in it. They are interested only in their fairy-tale version in which mohammed is kinder than the buddha, more dynamic than krishna, more revolutionary than christ, more consistent than Zarathustra etc.

You get the idea. Its impossible to have a discussion with people who are so overly full of self congratulation. Mohammed`s real strengths and weaknesses are lost in all this mush.

#83 hamidm2

In 400 BC, the emperor Ashoka wrote:


[quote]
Beloved-of-the-Gods, King Piyadasi, honors both ascetics and the householders of all religions, and he honors them with gifts and honors of various kinds.[22] But Beloved-of-the-Gods, King Piyadasi, does not value gifts and honors as much as he values this -- that there should be growth in the essentials of all religions.[23]

Growth in essentials can be done in different ways, but all of them have as their root restraint in speech, that is, not praising one`s own religion, or condemning the religion of others without good cause. And if there is cause for criticism, it should be done in a mild way. But it is better to honor other religions for this reason.

By so doing, one`s own religion benefits, and so do other religions, while doing otherwise harms one`s own religion and the religions of others. Whoever praises his own religion, due to excessive devotion, and condemns others with the thought ``Let me glorify my own religion,`` only harms his own religion. Therefore contact (between religions) is good.[24]

One should listen to and respect the doctrines professed by others. Beloved-of-the-Gods, King Piyadasi, desires that all should be well-learned in the good doctrines of other religions.
[quote]

The indian state takes these statements as ideals; this is one reason why the indian flag includes Ashoka dhamma chakra.

why should it ban or uproot any sect that wishes to live in peace, deobandi or whatever? You should be aware that deobandis in india are excessively strict and inward-looking but not to my knowledge violent.

re: this article
I respect the sentiments of the author but to me, Islam is no more than a cult and Mohammad, its most successful founder.
We don`t know much about Md but we see the legacy he has left behind. And, it is not a peaceful legacy.
(You love them so much that only prayers can come out, even if you didn’t believe in God. Every Muslim, every time the Prophet’s name is mentioned, says “peace be upon him” for our love is so deep that, through the ages, we are still sending prayers for him.)
Instead of saying ``peace be upon him`` and then go around killing people of other faith, just say nothing but do nothing. That will be appreciated by people of other faith.
(Why all this love for one man? What did he do that was so worthy of enchanting so many?)
What indeed! we non-muslims wonder.
(He was the champion for women at the time when women had little or no rights.)
That is why he married 14 year old Ayesha when she had not attained her puberty.
(His love for humankind was immense.)
Immense indeed!
This is from Ali Sinna`s testimonials as to why he left Islam:
excerpts:
(Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 38, Number 4396

Narrated Jabir ibn Abdullah:
A thief was brought to the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him). He said: Kill him. The people said: He has committed theft, Apostle of Allah! Then he said: Cut off his hand. So his (right) hand was cut off. He was brought a second time and he said: Kill him. The people said: He has committed theft, Apostle of Allah! Then he said: Cut off his foot.
So his (left) foot was cut off.
He was brought a third time and he said: Kill him.
The people said: He has committed theft, Apostle of Allah!
So he said: Cut off his hand. (So his (left) hand was cut off.)
He was brought a fourth time and he said: Kill him.
The people said: He has committed theft, Apostle of Allah!
So he said: Cut off his foot. So his (right) foot was cut off.
He was brought a fifth time and he said: Kill him.
So we took him away and killed him. We then dragged him and cast him into a well and threw stones over him.

Ali Sinna`s observationSeems that Muhammad passed judgment before hearing the case. Also by cutting a thief’s hand he is left with no other means to earn his bread except begging, which would be difficult since he is defamed as a thief and so hated by people. Therefore re-offending becomes his only means of livelihood.)
(Muhammad is not a man to be easily forgotten,...)
You are right about that. Everytime there is a terrorist act, we are reminded of Mohammad.
Sridhar

re:#56 by ahmedmadani
Ahmad Madani Sahib,
We look forward to the day when India will have common borders with Afghanistan. Having an Indian Consulate near the Paki border is but a small step in that direction.
Sridhar