Saviour or Tinpot Dictator?

Re: # 476

No I do not have enough knowledge.....so I would rather , enjoy the show from the sidelines......

and as a spectator I will appluad ...the one who has been playing.......and playing good.


.

#475 by aquaris on April 21, 2006 9:39am PT

I`m not against manto...what he`s trying to do, secularize Pakiland, is a good thing..Of course, I also think he has a snowballs chance in hell of getting PAkiland to what he wants it to be..but a commendable effort on his part..

Personally, I agree with him when he says gandhi was no good..I also think gandhi shot Kennedy..that bastard..

Zeemax #479, {``Salim. I`m hurt. I supported your Pakistani citizenship too on UP :(``}

Zeemax Sahib,
I apologize for not acknowledging your defense of the weak. :) I appreciate support on this important matter from all good people of conscience. Thanks. As free human beings, we should be allowed to think, talk, and believe as we wish as long as we don`t involve violence, destruction, and coercion.

RE#473
ANY PAKISTANI TAKERS? Instead of crowing about standing tall, etc, etc.

PAKISTAN`S POSITION- Jinnah was an idealist, secularist, who wanted to establish a secular tolerant state with a majority Muslim population. He was forced to do this because of bad boys Gandhi and Nehru who played communal politics.

FACT #1
NONE of the Indians here (and the Honourable Pakistani Gentleman Salim Bhai) in this board are convinced about the Jinnah`s credentials, and the extensive evidence supplied by MR.YLH

FACT #2
Starting from day#1 i.e Aug 14, 1947 Pak did NOT EVEN PRETEND TO PRACTICE SUCH IDEALS HELD BY JINNAH. Evidence- confirmed by Mr.YLH-A scheduled caste Hindu gentleman who believed in Jinnah and employed in Pak govt 1947-1950 was disillusioned in 3 yrs and returned to India heart broken.

On Aug 14, 1947 it started on a path and has reached where it is today-
examples-
(A) NEWS ITEM- A few truly courageous souls who still have the audacity to call themselves Hindus in Jinnah`s Creation ( JC) wanted to listen Hindu bhajan songs on cable.

The reaction of the constituitionally recognized first class citizens of JC: they threatened and warned them not to make such offensive demands and cautioned them that they should learn better manners.


(B) Jinnah`s clansmen Shia muslims if they would like to take Muharram procession they are less likely to be bombed in Lucknow or Ind Hyderabad than in Lahore or Karachi.



(C) Jinnah` grandson Nusli Wadia ( carries some genes of J) converted back to Parsi religion. If he had the fortitude to live in JC as a constituitionally recognized 2nd class citizen and gets into a let`s say a land dispute with a first class citizen of JC, all the first class citizen has to do is to accuse Mr.Wadia of ``blasphemy``. On the spot lynching of Jinnah`s grand son will be readily available in JC.

I`ll ask you 2 questions, please choose the best answer A or B. I`ll consider you a courageous man (I realize it is a just a Hindu Kafir`s opinion) if you don`t come up answers C, D,etc not listed here.

Question 1.
FACT#1 AND FACT #2 ABOVE ARE RELATED TO EACH OTHER.

A.Yes
B.No


Question 2.
A. Hindus who don`t agree with Jinnah`s greatness are evil people, they are closed minded, all because of biased Indian education.



B.Proof is in the pudding. Since none of Jinnah`s visions and theories have been demonstrated in reality, Hindus have a hard time understanding these visions and theories. Hindus are even more baffled because JC`s first class citizens have different yard sticks (not enough, not enough,...) when it comes to how thier clansmen should be treated in India.

#471 by Salim_Chauhan

Salim. I`m hurt. I supported your Pakistani citizenship too on UP :(

#475 by aquaris

Yep Manto is one HELL of an adversary. Jeez ... I would hate to be on the wrong side of him.

Manto,

Gandhi`s simplicity was a fad and a show... he was playing Gautama Buddha to fool the people- nothing more.

LoL. You really know how to get their goat ... hehe .. cruel .. have mercy on these poor souls.

Re: # 475
``Mr YLH aka Mantolive ..... you stood Tall....``

Sir,
Would you like to answer my questions on #473 and stand tall too?
Or unlike Mian Manto would you like to crow with some empty platitudes
or abuse me and stand small?

Regards,

Vow


arjun_m, bjkumar, bharath,mohar11,santini,rsridhar,VRV,sanvoice,sanjan,Avkrishna,......
and a couple of other casual indian visitors to this thread...


against One Man.. Mantolive......!!

Yet all of them at best presented Just various Point of Views.... nothing More...


Mr YLH aka Mantolive ..... you stood Tall....


thanks..

Vow


arjun_m, bjkumar, bharath,mohar11,santini,rsridhar,VRV,sanvoice,sanjan,Avkrishna,......
and a couple of other casual indian visitors to this thread...


against One Man.. Mantolive......!!

Yet all of them at best presented Just various Point of Views.... nothing More...


Mr YLH aka Mantolive ..... you stood Tall....


thanks..

#472, Manto Bhai,

So, now we have that one area of disagreement. :) Thank you for your refined and decent behavior - too bad more Pakistanis could not follow your example. I think that we would have far better results and the facts speak for themselves. Best wishes.

Re: # 466
Mian Manto,
I was aware of that Jinnah (J) speech before starting this discussion. To summarize your arguments- J was an idealist, secularist, who wanted to establish a secular tolerant state
with a majority Muslim population. This is because of bad boys Gandhi and Nehru who played communal politics. OK.

FACT #1
NONE of the Indians here (and the Honourable Pakistani Gentleman Salim Bhai) in this board are convinced about the J`s credentials, and the extensive evidence you supply.

FACT #2
Starting from day#1 i.e Aug 14, 1947 Pak did NOT EVEN PRETEND TO PRACTICE SUCH IDEALS.

On Aug 14, 1947 it started on a path and has reached where it is today-
examples-
(A) NEWS ITEM- A few truly courageous souls who still have the audacity to call themselves Hindus in Jinnah`s Creation ( JC) wanted to listen Hindu bhajan songs on cable.
The reaction of the constituitionally recognized first class citizens of JC: they threatened and warned them not to make such offensive demands and cautioned them that they should learn better manners.

(B) J`s clansmen Shia muslims if they would like to take Muharram procession they are less likely to be bombed in Lucknow or Ind Hyderabad than in Lahore or Karachi.

(C) J` grandson Nusli Wadia ( carries some genes of J) converted back to Parsi religion. If he had the fortitude to live in JC as a constituitionally recognized 2nd class citizen and gets into a let`s say a land dispute with a first class citizen of JC, all the first class citizen has to do is to accuse Mr.Wadia of ``blasphemy``. On the spot lynching of Jinnah`s grand son will be readily available in JC.

I`ll ask you 2 questions, please choose the best answer A or B. I`ll consider you a courageous man (as if it matters to u) if you don`t come up answers C, D,etc not listed here.

Question 1.
FACT#1 AND FACT #2 ABOVE ARE RELATED TO EACH OTHER.

A.Yes
B.No


Question 2.
A. Hindus who don`t agree with Jinnah`s greatness are evil people, they are closed minded
, all because of biased Indian education.

B.Proof is in the pudding. Since none of J`s visions and theories have been demonstrated in reality, Hindus have a hard time understanding these visions and theories. Hindus are even more baffled because JC`s first class citizens have different yard sticks
(not enough, not enough,...) when it comes to how thier clansmen should be treated in India.

Dear Salim bhai...

``To Manto`s credit, even though we vehemently disagree on the issues of partition and Punjabi hegemony over Pakistan, he has never denied my Pakistani roots.``

How can I? Also we don`t really disagree on Punjabi hegemony... just partition.

#460, harish_hyd {``Yaar Salim, it takes guts to speak up the truth and you have it in abundance. While Yasser may become a great politician``}

Harry Bhai,
The truth has to be said, and when it is not a matter of personal and public safety, the truth should be said regardless of the consequences. :)

To Manto`s credit, even though we vehemently disagree on the issues of partition and Punjabi hegemony over Pakistan, he has never denied my Pakistani roots. Unlike him, there are many Pakistanis, mostly Paki Punjaibis, who, after having lost in civilized discussions, have resorted to name calling and questioning my former Pakistani citizenship. It is interesting to note that when intolerant people can`t find rational means to suppress viewpoints, they resort to personal attacks, ostracizing, and questioning the religious, national, ethnic, and linguistic credentials of the dissident.

Thank you for your support.

Dear Avkrishna,

Yes putting up onesided biased websites in response to primary sources and facts constitutes ``Truth`` for you guys... while posting neutral historians, authors and primary sources like TOPP are ``propaganda``. Thank you very much for refreshingly new definitions of ``truth`` and ``propaganda``.

God save us all from such fabricated ``truth``.

Harish_hyd # various,

Thanks for your research into DAD and bringing out the truth.

Looks like this is the only way we can counter the biased propoganda here,

Thanks,
Avkrishna