Saviour or Tinpot Dictator?

#578 (Addendum)

And a mujra will stay a mujra - no matter how much its ``pimps`` go ``waah-waah``!

Yeah!

The experience is even more exhilirating than a forced hours-long being-closeted-in experience with a used Ford Pinto salesman!

Also, Manto...

Since we are talking analogies, here is one more...

You recycle tons of old text in a far worse manner than a dalaal hands around thalis of paan at a mujra!

#564 Yasser

[…are M N Roy, H M Seervai, SK Majumdar, H V Hodson, Richard Grenier or Asiananda sources of illrepute ?]

I don’t know, I have not read those individuals.

But I DO know the following.

Arthur Kemp, Dalistan.org, and Baldev Singh, are among the countless other sources of “ill-repute” that you have quoted in the past – sometimes without telling the reader, many times extensively – and you have tried to pass them off as reputable. When confronted, you have either started relieving yourself in pants or just ignored the question.

You can hide and you can fudge, but your credibility is an immediate casualty of your sneaky “lawyerly” ways – except perhaps to dishonest individuals – like the chowk editors who in their heart wish very fervently for you to be “right” so they close their eyes and do not demand even the slightest of credibility and accountability from “authors” like you – and other such trivialities that grace these web pages!

More importantly, if you are so unafraid of unbiased reviews, why don’t you summarize your findings and run them by legitimate scholars of history (and in my view, Farzana Versey is not a scholar of history, perhaps not of anything). I believe Prof. Jalal would be a good start, since she has a certain degree of academic credentials – in spite of some controversy over her stands, few doubt her academic repute – NOBODY will ever confuse HER for a lawyer!

You don’t do any of that perhaps because of highly obvious reasons – that you will be found out and exposed – and will look as ridiculous as a wet cat – a highly pathetic wet cat!

Every dog has his day – but cats only have nights of infamy – to shrink like certain bodily appendages that fail to “rise” to the occasion!

The proverbial guns which always fail to fire!

Manto,

OK but if I get the time. I have got a family to feed.

Regards

Majumdar...

If you are interested in M N Roy- please visit my ilogs... I have quoted a few articles about the man that you will find interesting. I don`t wish to let BJ and Harish get off the hook by derailing the discussion and then blaming it on me- so its best we communicate on M N Roy through our ilogs.

Harish 571

On the contrary- I am on the topic. I think you`ve been unable to prove a single point about Direct Action Day and are now trying to prove a point about M N Roy.

I am sure now for both you and BJKumar Majumdar`s comments in 572 are a big slap on the face.

Dear Harish

More of the same I see?

Please point out how many of the leaders that you`ve named were physically present in Bengal? Zero. That is the answer to the question what Jinnah did to restrain them... none of them were involved in violence in Bengal. The reason I said Punjabi was you were quoting two more than others... Feroz Khan Noon and Abdur rab Nishtar... and with the exception of Hidayatullah- all of them are Punjabis.

If Suhrawardy- not on your list- was nominated as the culprit- he was removed for negligence as well... and as for the comparison between Gujurat and Calcutta... ofcourse. I told you yesterday that it is a very apt comparison...

1- In both instances an Armed Hindu Majority in a Hindu Majority city killed a large number of the Muslim minority under a false pretext that they had provoked violence.

2- In both instances inquiries absolved Muslims of planning the violence.


As for Hodson`s statement absolving Muslim League of intending to start violence... the context is what I said you need to pick up. He was very clear that Muslim League had not planned violence... but violence erupted. Both statements are indeed made by him... but had you actually picked up his book you would know what the context is.

On M N Roy- you`ve been caught once again to pull a fast one- which is why you are back despite having said two hours ago that you were leaving.

Manto mian/others

My knowledge about MNR is very limited. All I know is that he was a Bong like me and a communist and had substantial influence on left leaning politicians (both commie and none commies) who entered Indian politics in 1950s and 1960s. Manto tells me that he was a humanist- now I dont know what a humanist is supposed to be so I again I can`t comment. But I do hope to read up on MNR and find out what he stood for.

But yes I do dislike communism considering the damage that they have done in India and even more so abroad.

Manto, assuming of course that MNR was a good man, saying that MNR was a great luminary like Stalin or Trotsky was highly injudicious. It would like me saying that YLH is a learned and eminent Pakistani like Maulana Urstruly (pbuh) and Maulana Masadi (RA)- highly unfair to all persons concerned.

Regards

#568 by Mantolives

Tell me why is M N Roy a charlatan exactly ? You claimed that- didn`t you?

I see you`re desperate to wean away the topic from DAD, but not so fast dear Yasser. I`ll prove everything and more, but first things first.

#563 by Mantolives

They did say that Direct Action Day led to violence ... but they have not apportioned blame as such.

Now dear Yasser, you`re turning blind. Your one-time favorite Stanley Wolpert in his book ``Gandhi`s Passion`` says, ``The man most widely blamed for the mass murder of Hindus and the torching of their property in the days and weeks following Direct Action Day was Bengal`s Muslim League Chief Minister Huseyn Shaheed Suhrawardy. Every British officer, including Governor Sir Frederick Burrows and Chief of the Eastern Command Lt. General Sir Francis Tuker, pointed to Suhrawardy as the villain of the terror that exploded after he gave Calcutta`s police a special holiday to ``celebrate`` Direct Action.``.

Liaqat Ali Khan was from UP but he was a Punjabi and no where near Bengal.
Ghazanfar Ali was also not present in Bengal.
Ghulam Mustafa Shah Gilani was from Multan environs.
Ghulam Hussain Hidayatullah was from Sindh.

Aww, so now you`re trying to change tack? How very clever! You said only Punjabi Leaguers made provocative statements. I proved otherwise. Now you`re measuring the distances at which they were from Bengal? Nice try but no cigar.

The point is that none of these leaders were involved in any violence in Calcutta or any where else... despite what they might have said ... long before DAD was even announced.

And I suppose Narendra Modi personally went about raping and killing Muslim women and burning their babies. Original point, but nonsensical, isn`t it?

It absolves Muslim League of any blame. I have quoted the exact page number and when you read your own selective quote in the context you will see that my reading is correct.

Then why does he make the statement that if the Muslims started it, they were its worst victims? Why should we believe that statement and discard this one? After all, both were made by him?

I must agree with this statement after seeing the futility of shining light(s) -heck spot lights- on your mind for many years

Then who`s the fool here?

As for Jinnah and Ispahani`s correspondence - I`ll have to locate it but I quoted it once before as well.

Just saying so won`t do my dear friend, come back armed with the proof and then we`ll talk.

Please produce some arguments as to why you feel he is a charlatan other than the fact that he thought Gandhi was a medieval fascist?

I`ll leave that as homework for you today, but if you can`t find anything, I`ll willingly oblige you tomorrow.

Zeemax...

I will look into 548.

Dear Harish Hyd,

As far as I can see that by abusing a world renowned figure like M N Roy as someone only known in ``Timbaktu`` you have managed to tell us more about yourself than every before. Basically- as far as I can see- for you anyone who dares to have a different point of view than yours... is worthy of abuse.

Tell me why is M N Roy a charlatan exactly ? You claimed that- didn`t you?

Manto,

Thanks for your #552.

More on the ambulance incident:

Many explanations have been given for this act of negligence by the bureaucracy. In a recent article in quarterly ‘Al-Aqreba’, Islamabad, Syed Hashim Raza who was at that time the Administrator of Karachi has given his own version of the happening. He writes, “When on 10th September Quaid-i-Azam and Miss Jinnah left Quetta Airport for Mauripur no one except the pilot knew where the plane would land. Those days I was the administrator of Pakistan’s capital Karachi. Whenever Quaid-i-Azam would depart from Karachi as administrator I used to be present at the airport to see him off. Similarly, whenever he would arrive in Karachi it was my duty to receive him. But no one had a clue to the arrival of this plane. When I asked Quaid’s military secretary afterwards that why I was not informed about it he told me that Miss Jinnah had ordered him that no one should be informed about the arrival of the plane except Mr. Liaquat Ali Khan with the instructions that he should not come at Mauripur Airport. When the Military Secretary rang up Jinnah Hospital to send an ambulance he did not tell them for whom the ambulance was required. This ambulance got stuck up at some distance from the airport. Some fault had occurred in its engine that could not be rectified by any one and another ambulance was called from Jinnah Hospital. For one hour Quaid-i-Azam’s nurse kept warding off flies in that sultry heat. When the second ambulance arrived then Quaid was driven to the governor general house and was made to lie in his bed room. His doctor has written in his book that he died at twenty past ten the same night.” This account shows that the whole thing was mismanaged. Was an enquiry ordered into the happening? Why a faulty ambulance was sent to the airport on a call from the military secretary to the governor general and even if hospital authorities were not told for whom the ambulance was needed at the airport it seems they had no sympathy for a patient in emergency and distress.

P.S. Did you get the time to research my query in #548?

#564 by Mantolives

He will realise that he was simply wrong about M N Roy ... and then you`ll be left with no arguments as usual ...

Sure, and pigs will spout wings. Please let us know when that happens.

So apart from Lawyer, SAP coordinator, Writer, Economist, Journalist, now Yasser is a wannabe Nostradamus. He`s actually making predictions about how Majumdar will lap up what he says and I will be proven wrong. As they say, if wishes were horses.

My advice- base your case on something concrete and not pathetic attempts to impeach my credibility.

Yasser dear, you`ve impeached your own credibility, no one else needs to do it.

Ah I see...

Majumdar makes a btw comment about communists and BJKumar and Harish Hyd jump on it.

The famous Urdu saying: ``Doobtay ko tinkay ka sahara``.

Majumdar`s comment about MN Roy really had little to do Roy himself but communists and Stalin and Trotsky. But the lack of integrity that is apparent in posts by Harish Hyd and BJKumar is just strengthened by their glee.

Dear BJKumar,

My comments about Gandhi are directly from his ``Collected Works`` - Is that a Jehadi source? One would think so at first glance... but those are the collected works of Mahatma Gandhi. Now please answer the simple question: Why are M N Roy, H M Seervai, SK Majumdar, H V Hodson, Richard Grenier or Asiananda sources of illrepute ?

So far this bad behavior on your part and your buddy Harish Hyd`s part ... amounts to nothing but a concession of defeat on the issues at hand.

Harish mian...

Majumdar is an intelligent fellow. He will realise that he was simply wrong about M N Roy ... and then you`ll be left with no arguments as usual ... My advice- base your case on something concrete and not pathetic attempts to impeach my credibility.