Pak Armed Forces vs. Pakistan

#64, zeemax,
I used to think of Mushy as the lesser of two evils, but now after his murderous campaigns in NWFP, Baluchistan, and Gilgit/Baltistan, I have to agree with those opposed to ALL military rule. The man is more than cruel, he is an idiot.

MMA=Military+Mullah+Amerika alliance. Writer has simply stated the obvious, well documented facts really do not offer any solution but an opportunity for the writer to vent his frustration.

What about the murdering fanatics who roam the country freely as heroes preparing for their next jihad and ticket to heaven? Problem lies with the culture of violence, extreme religious beliefs, intolerant attitudes and a medieval mindset.

When 250,000 Pakistanis can be stranded in East Pakistan simply because of their ethnic heritage and their compatriots do not raise an eyebrow, then how can we expect civilized values to evolve? Generals who should have been tried for mass rape and genocide are retired with full honours and hailed as local heroes, how can we expect that nation to respect minorities or the state? Fact is, Pakistan is a failed state which continues to be given a life line in the shape of Russian invasion of Afghanistan or 9/11, devoid of these artificial support systems this country would have disintegrated by now or close to a full scale civil war.

rf786 #66 {``When 250,000 Pakistanis can be stranded in East Pakistan simply because of their ethnic heritage and their compatriots do not raise an eyebrow, then how can we expect civilized values to evolve?``}

radio frequency mit bimillahirrahmanirahim,
Enough said. Right there, you have defined a people who have no morality, no ethics, no conscience, no principles, and no future. If they can stubbornly refuse to accept their own citizens after a disastrous defeat, that they caused, then how can you expect them to treat anyone with humanity? These are the same people who object to depictions of naked women - yet they have no problem with their naked duplicity.

Re: # 59 salim

The main question is - who is going to bell the cat?.... there may be n number of ways to solve the military junta problem in pakistan - but who is going to do it?.... pakis masses won`t do it.... paki politicians can`t do it.....

There is only one person who can do it - Uncle Sam.... if tomorrow, uncle sam says - ``Ok folks, time`s up... now Nawaz is going to be my man [or b!tch] in islamabad`` - how many minutes do you think it will take Mushy to pack his bags and catch the next flight to Boston?.... before he can say ``Uncle``...:)

Re: # 67
Munafiqat/duplicity can be seen in all aspects of Pak society: Mosque, where ppl pray to be forgiven and become better human beings are preaching hatred of Gods creation. School/colleges are teaching lies and fanning bigotry. Judicial system which is supposed to bring balance in society has become a tool in the hands of powerful may it be the rich, landlords, inidstrialists, mullahs, army or establishment, the poor citizen of this wretched country has no chance in hell. Media talks about freedom of press, yet censors those who irk the state or powerful. Politicians who were supposed to represent their people (voters) audaciously demonstrate their links with Ghq. This country was created by a secularist, yet its leaders claim that it was found on the basis of religion. When the begining is based on a lie, then how can we expect a pleasent ending? Aissa naheen hotha, kuch hassil karnay ke liya bhoth kuch khonna partha hai.....

#68, Mohar11,
LOL - 45 minutes - that`s not including the helicopter ride to Chaklala Airport.

#62 Nasah

Nobody who has read my interacts will make the mistake of thinking that I hold any “sympathy” for the institution that is the Pakistani army.

Its record on what it has accomplished in the past on the battlefield is an account of shame (except perhaps the bravery of individual soldiers – and all soldiers (the “pawns”) are intrinsically brave – they have nobody else available to “delegate” the task of getting killed!)

Its record on what it has executed within India through its proxy terrorists is an account of utter horror! (The Indians have been aware of it – through bitter, first-hand experience for a long while - the rest of the civilized world has only recently woken up to it!)

But it’s most devastating effect has been on its own population – by being the thousand-headed monster that it has become internally – by running and ruining every aspect of its civilian structure. Its greed and hunger for power knows no bounds! It will not hold any documents sacred – it will bow to no courts of law and least of all – to the court of public opinion – and it will not hold any concepts sacred except perhaps the concept that all powers flow from the barrel of a gun!

Yet, let us face it – who populates this army –the lay persons from the fields and the streets of Pakistan. Therein lies a readiness to accept this affliction – and so the affliction goes on! If I were to venture my simple opinion – and I am clearly no expert like so many “experts” who populate this site thicker than drones do a honeycomb – I would say – “It’s the mind-set, stupid!”

Therefore, in its own mind, the institution of the army is doing a great favor to the country – it is holding together by force what reason does not for reason can not – because once one yields to reason, there is no going back to not going back to what the whole darn exercise was all about! And then the painful realization sinks in that the “nakhalistan” was merely a green mirage – and was never real! And all those who were “selling” it were actually just human beings – and they were just as prone to the faults of humans – even of being wrong (tauba!) – and of screwing up!

Easy come, easy go. That is how Pakistan is.

Easy come, easy go. That is how Pakistan is.

Gull Sahib:
It is quite a disgusting sight when one makes its way into peshawar via GT road and seeing all these grand advertisements dotted along the way like: Army Home of Daredevils (attock fort), Army home of Artillery (Nowshehra) etc etc. It makes one sick to see these monsters and their bravado in occupying people`s lands and landmarks with no shame.

from the article:
``What a bizarre irony that the top command of Pak army has on their hand/conscience much more blood of their own brethren than the enemy’s. A monster being fed and nurtured with the blood and sweat of a destitute nation coming back to hit the same poor feeding hands, finding a more cruel tragedy would be a really difficult task.``

Jyaali (na)Pak Fauj

The last commander-in-chief (in 1947) of the British Indian Army was adamant to the end that it wasn`t possible to split his pride and joy between two states. It was not an institution but a living entity, he insisted. It could not survive being hacked into two parts. No one listened to him and the British Indian Army was spliced into two quite unequal parts. The lizard was severed at the tail. The Indian army is the surviving tailess rump. Pakistan army is the convulsivly wagging severed tail. It is uncontrolable.

...SR

The paki army is doing a fantastic job..which is why India is known for it`s IITs and IT and Pakistan is known for it`s madrassahs and IT(international terrorism)..

WASHINGTON DIARY: Jihadi kitchens fattened the rich — Dr Manzur Ejaz

Besides being a leader in corruption and religious fundamentalism, Pakistan, is about to win another distinction at the international level. According to a World Bank source, Pakistan is emerging as the society with the greatest income skewedness — the difference between the rich and the poor is fast becoming the largest in the world. In this respect Pakistan has already outdone the infamous Brazil. The top 10 percent now own most of the national wealth while the rest survive on a pittance.

Re: # 23

Mind dear kaptain it was not the Russia but a Union of Soviet Republics which was broken up. Russia is still there intact with all its nuclear might. The Union of Soviet Republics (USSR) was not broken up by an enemy army but due to too much spending on its army in the name of defence by the dictatorial regime of Russia.

Question arises, ``How to defend the people from its own army, especially when it is in a position to use the resources of the country at its sweet will like a mafia``?

Bhutto had tried this by creating a civil armed force called MSF (?) as a counterpoise to army but he began to use it for his own protection against the people as Baloch Sardars are now using their private armies. The truth is `power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely`.

Just ponder why Indra Gandhi so magnanimously released 90,000 of prisoners of war of the Paky army?

arjun:
from the same article.

Kitay Ramdas kitay Fateh Mohammad, ehow qadeemi shoor

Nipat gia dohaN da jhagRa, wichooN nikal pia koi hoor ni

(It was considered a dispute between Ramdas and Fateh Mohammad. However, when the conflict was resolved, something else emerged as the main issue)



imo, in a fantasy-pakistan, Bulleh Shah will be the patron saint of pakistanyat.

more indian contribution to science, in this case allowing themselves to be used as guinea pigs. and all this while spending US20bn on defence:

http://www.morris.umn.edu/webbin/ummnews/view.php?newsID=200

...The UMM program, Globalization: Examining India`s Social and Economic Development, is designed to ``observe the problems of mass poverty in India

http://www.hindu.com/2006/02/18/stories/2006021817571400.htm

...Mr. Yechury said the per capita availability of foodgrains was the lowest since Independence and was equivalent to what existed during the Bengal famine.

re:#55 by tahmed32
(The proper strategy for the security of pakistan and pakistanis is: nuclear deterrent + economic progress + mending fences with India (the traditionally hostile neighbor).)
Amen to that.
Now, who is going to bell the cat? That is to say: who is going to restrict the power of the Paki Army when the Army itself ruled the country and has given itself all the powers.
I am posting Hussain Haqqani`s article here. This guy has a decent head over his shoulders.
The article
Excerpts:
(Normalisation of relations with India, an emerging global power that is also the strategic partner of the world`s sole superpower, are far more important for Pakistan today than they were in the early years of its life as an independent state. Pakistan no longer has the strategic options, of playing one cold war rival against the other, to help compensate for its military and economic disparity with India. Pakistan has tried, and failed, to change the territorial status quo in Jammu and Kashmir through both conventional and sub-conventional warfare. Efforts to secure international support against India by emphasising India`s violations of human rights in Jammu and Kashmir have also yielded little result. Under such circumstances, the insistence on resolving Kashmir as a precondition for normalisation of Pakistan`s relations with India is hardly a strategy. Pakistan`s military-dominated decision-making process has resulted in combinations of short-term military and diplomatic moves without a well thought out end game in relation to Kashmir or, for that matter, relations with India. As pointed out by retired Air Marshal Asghar Khan, Pakistan`s military adventures over Kashmir have been launched in the ``hope that world powers would come to our rescue, intervene, bring about a cease fire and somehow help us achieve our political objectives.)
(A feeling of insecurity against a much larger and hostile neighbour was the original source of Pakistani apprehensions about its nationhood. The emphasis on seeking to ``complete`` Pakistan by acquiring Kashmir, which in the Pakistani psyche should have been part of Pakistan in the first place, is directly related to this sense of insecurity. But over the years, structures of conflict have evolved, with the Pakistani establishment as the major beneficiary of maintaining hostility. It is clearly in India`s interest to help Pakistan gain sufficient confidence as a nation to overcome the need for conflict or regional rivalry for nation building. Prime Minister Manmohan Singh`s vision of a comprehensive treaty of peace, friendship and security is a step in helping bolster the confidence of Pakistanis in normal ties between India and Pakistan. It is important for Pakistani civil society too, to acknowledge that normal relations with India are the key to normalisation of politics and policy in Pakistan as well.)
Sridhar