Is Iran Headed for War?

Re: 59

Ranjit, you are quite right. I dont see why Iran doesn`t use the current high oil prices to mint money rather than indulge in a silly war and hand over the cash to Haliburton & Co.

Re: 39,

Zeemax sahib,

(The only solution is end of the sardari system in Baluchistan, and direct provincial rule. Exile of these two sardars, and clean up the whole thing. Why hasn`t it been done before? Because political governments need votes, and these sardars command a lot of votes. But, the government has realized there is no other choice. The solution is in the making now. )

Who is going to end the sardari system- the military sardars who rule Pakistan- pot calling the kettle black.

Direct provincial rule- by whom, the elected representatives of the Pakistani-Baluchistani citizens or the nominees of the Pak Fauj.

Regards

#64 by Ramanujan

Yes. But ONLY bank accounts under THEIR control.

Do you know regardles of WHERE one has a US Dollar Account, those dollars always end up in the US and under its control ???

PFUT!!!!!! GAWD.....!!!!!

Hey do me a favour ... give up OK ? I will let you win next time OK? Promise .....

#65 by majumdar

.....Who is going to end the sardari system- the military sardars who rule Pakistan- pot calling the kettle black. Direct provincial rule- by whom, the elected representatives of the Pakistani-Baluchistani citizens or the nominees of the Pak Fauj.....

Well the Baluchistan problem is a direcr threat to the country`s sovereignty and the writ of the Government. Whatever the Pak military may be, it has never allowed such threats to remain unchecked.

As for provincial rule- by whom, obviously nominees of the Pak Fauj for the time being, just as the rest of the country.

Zeemax sahib,

(Well the Baluchistan problem is a direcr threat to the country`s sovereignty and the writ of the Government. Whatever the Pak military may be, it has never allowed such threats to remain unchecked. )

True, but having created the situation in the first place. For eg it was the suppression of democracy which created the problems in EP which led to military suppression and finally Bdesh.

Regards

#68 by majumdar

.... eg it was the suppression of democracy which created the problems in EP which led to military suppression and finally Bdesh.....

That is an interesting analogy which is often drawn, even in Pakistan. But I don`t see any similarities, really.

Firstly, EP was a popular movement. Baluchistan is not. It is only a few Sardars who control limited areas, albeit very important ones, with their `Levies` (militias) paid for by the Government under the system.

Secondly, The ethnic Baluch population is less than 25% in Baluchistan as compared to 100% Bengalis in EP. The balance 75% are allied with the mainstream.

Even within the Bugti tribe, which is the centre of rebellion, a very large branch of Bugtis had been forced into exile by Nawab Akbar Bugti to Behawalpur district during the 90s, which has now been brought back and resettled in the Sui area under army protection; while the Nawab himself has been forced to flee. This has been done to dilute the rebel`s power in the area.

Thirdly, the army oppression in EP was widespread and indiscriminate, which combined with the cancellation of National Assembly session, really left the Bengalis with no other choice or hope. While in case of Baluchistan, the economic inequity can be easily addressed through abolishment of the Sardari system.

Rgds

re:#63 by 1saurabh
There is no need for US to invade Pakistan. A ``soft invasion`` is already taking place. FBI rules the roost in pakistan and has access to everything under the sun. Paki army is assisting US in terrorism on its western front and losing many officers in the process. All this because Mushy wants to keep his job and the perks that come with it.
Sridhar

ranjit #59, {``Salim bhai, most Indians do not relish the prospect of the Iranians being attacked by the US. Iran has been a very good friend of India and there is no apetite for seeing a Iraq style fiasco being repeated in Iran. ...
At the same time, the Iranians seemed to have lost their minds as they are literally hell bent on inviting destruction. From making extreme anti-semitic statements, testing advanced missiles that avoid radar detection, to a dogged determination to enrich uranium, Iran seems to be on a suicidal course.``}

Ranjit Bhai,
Leave it to you to restore traditionally logical and compassionate thinking representing most Indians. :) Thanks,

I agree with you about the saber rattling introduced by President Ahmadinejad. There is no need for it and he has unnecessarily invited the evil spotlight from the neo-cons and Halliburton. As for testing of missiles, radar avoidance, and enriching uranium, Iran would be definitely at fault if it was the only country doing so. In my opinion, serious disarmament should first be initiated by those who have the potential to do the most harm - US, UK, Russia, France, China and then Israel, India and Pakistan - in that order. Anything less smells of partisan morality. Thanks,

# 60, Ramanujan {``Heh heh. Good try. But you see, I have been dealing too long with tahmed32 and Mantolives to let false accusations bother me.
...Therefore you don`t have to worry about not being able to logically refute my arguments``}

Ram Bhai,
If that`s all you wanted, you should have said so earlier. I have no problem with you walking away with the trophy. In fact, we can call Bradrum Behram Bhai and let you engage in meaningful discussions where you two can cooperate in producing sugar. The record of Mr. Modi`s administration and collusion in the organized slaughter of thousands of innocent victims is well known and well documented. The automated lists of minority-owned businesses and residences, compiled by state authorities and supplied to the BJP/RSS/VHP/JS/BD/SP holy warriors were well-publicized. The complicity of the police in herding victims to their deaths is also quite well-known. In fact, it took the Indian Army to bring the killing to an end. Anyway, you can defend these actions all you want, but most objective people, including the majority of non-Gujarati Indians thinks otherwise.

As for how you consider the Holy Prophet (PBUH), you are quite entitled to your opinions - I just don`t happen to share your views on this topic. So, enjoy your hatred and may God give you pleasure in your pursuit.

Re: # 72

Salim, you are wasting your time. Sometimes obvious is the most difficult thing to prove. In Delhi a socialite, Jessica Lall was murdered in front of 400 guests, yet all the accused were set free by court. If anyone sees nothing wrong in Modi, you just cannot do anything about it.

Re: # 57 salim

Gujratis have prosecuted and convicted some of the rioters, despite the ``star witness`` turned ``hostile`` and the she has been convicted and jailed for perjury... Of course - the big shots have not been brought to book yet.... but that`s a good start....

In the mean time - we see the brand new war against kafirs ``jihad in mainland`` has been started.... Benaras, Bangalore, Delhi, Bombay - indians are being massacred with regular intervals.... people are openly advocating this new ``strategy`` as the way forward to deal with hinuds... to take advantage of the ``weakness`` in indian society and what not....

while we are trying hard to make sure godhra/gujrat never happens again, what`s the action on your side?..... what`s the plan to stop the ``jihad in mainland``?..... last heard - jihad donation boxes are still out there.... jihadis still well organized and financed in azad kashmir [ where they provided better disaster relief than paki army].....

So you tell me, man - where do we go from here?.... are you going do something or just sit there and preach non-violence to victims?....

Re: # 73 kali,salim

Police have indeed convicted some of the rioters and the hostile witness - but you are right - it would be tough one to get the main protagonist - Modi.... under the reality that indian penal system seriously f**ed up, still we are doing what we could do under the circumstances.... we have never sought to push this under the carpet.... a special law against this type of communal violence is in the offing.....

Is this satisfactory - no way.... it is a long hard journey to get to the goal of complete communal harmony - and we have just begun....

Now look on the flip side - has anybody ever been convicted for killing hinuds in hordes in india, kashmir, pakistan, bangaldesh or anywhere else?..... is there ever an attempt to get those people to book?..... We will try to give him Modi`s head - can we get Mushy`s head in return?....

Salim`s fellow-pakis have started yet another jihad on us - jihad in the mainland.... it is being openly advocated, discussed, fine-tuned and even moralized.... city after city are being attacked and people are getting killed..... so where is the action plan?.... what exactly are salim and like-minded pakis doing to stop the latest jihad on us hinuds?..... where is the paki civil society in this struggle?....

Kalihawa #73, {``Salim, you are wasting your time. Sometimes obvious is the most difficult thing to prove. In Delhi a socialite, Jessica Lall was murdered in front of 400 guests, yet all the accused were set free by court. If anyone sees nothing wrong in Modi, you just cannot do anything about it.``}

Kali,
You are so right. The wolves are able to hide among us so easily because many of us act like wolves. I often think why we can`t find, arrest, and prosecute all the jihadis/potential suicide bombers/terrorists in Pakistan. The reason is that they fit right in with the rest of the public - beards, shalwars, extremist viewpoints, violent attitude, and hatred. These groups, whether jihadi Muslims or right-wing Hiindus, do have supporters and can even muster majorities - e.g. NWFP and Gujarat.

Mohar11 #75, {``Police have indeed convicted some of the rioters and the hostile witness - but you are right - it would be tough one to get the main protagonist - Modi.... under the reality that indian penal system seriously f**ed up, still we are doing what we could do under the circumstances.... ...Now look on the flip side - has anybody ever been convicted for killing hinuds in hordes in india, kashmir, pakistan, bangaldesh or anywhere else?..... is there ever an attempt to get those people to book?..... We will try to give him Modi`s head - can we get Mushy`s head in return?....

Salim`s fellow-pakis have started yet another jihad on us - jihad in the mainland.... ...what exactly are salim and like-minded pakis doing to stop the latest jihad on us hinuds?..... where is the paki civil society in this struggle?.... ``}

Mohar,
Yes, there were some recent arrests and convictions. They convicted some Muslim goondas in the shooting death of one Hindu victim. I have no faith in the Gujarat administration or its officials. As for the killers of hindus from Kashmir, Pakistan, and BD, you are absolutely right. My friend, there is no justice in Pakistan, BD, and even India. These jihadis have killed far more Shia Muslims than Hindus - each time there is an investigation and some organization gets banned, only to be revitalized with even more money under another stupid name. But have some faith, even among Pakis. Many of us are vehemently against the mullah, jihadi, right-wing fundos. To the point that our personal relationships have been impacted. When I find out that someone holds such extremist views, I have no desire in socializing with them. I often speak out against them and never give any donations or zakat that could help them in their violent pursuits. Believe me, I honestly believe that Al-Kayda, JeM, SS, LeT, etc have done more damage to Islam and Muslims than BJP/RSS/VHP/SP/JS/BD combined.

#72 by Salim_Chauhan

[Ram Bhai,
If that`s all you wanted, you should have said so earlier. I have no problem with you walking away with the trophy.]

I`m gald you agree that Muhammad was an evil man.


[In fact, we can call Bradrum Behram Bhai and let you engage in meaningful discussions where you two can cooperate in producing sugar.]

He is your brother, not mine.


[The record of Mr. Modi`s administration and collusion in the organized slaughter of thousands of innocent victims is well known and well documented. The automated lists of minority-owned businesses and residences, compiled by state authorities and supplied to the BJP/RSS/VHP/JS/BD/SP holy warriors were well-publicized. The complicity of the police in herding victims to their deaths is also quite well-known. In fact, it took the Indian Army to bring the killing to an end.]

So you are unable to come up with any concrete evidence. I don`t blame you, because I have looked quite hard at the available evidence. Other than speculations, no one has been able to come up with anything. It is not for nothing that the Congress party or anybody else was unable to sue Modi. Even the US State Department, whenn pressed about their reasons for denying Modi a visa, said that the only thing they had to go by was the Indian (UPA) Government`s statements.

As for the Indian Army, it was to Modi`s credit that he requested their help to stop the riots from spreading. By the way, did you know the ``fact`` that about 250 Hindus were shot dead by Modi`s police?

Interesting, eh?

[Anyway, you can defend these actions all you want, but most objective people, including the majority of non-Gujarati Indians thinks otherwise. ]

Do not believe polls published on ``Outlook`` or that other bird-cage liner - ``The Hindu``. I`m a Hindu Indian, with extensive contacts within the Indian community. Modi is EXTREMELY popular - in fact, so much so, that he could be the Prime Minister of the country one day.


[As for how you consider the Holy Prophet (PBUH), you are quite entitled to your opinions]

Facts, my dear Salim, facts. Not my opinions.


[ - I just don`t happen to share your views on this topic.]

You are a man of blind faith. So I`m not surprised.


[So, enjoy your hatred and may God give you pleasure in your pursuit. ]

Well, you enjoy your faith-based hatred for the BJP/RSS/VHP/JS etc. and for Modi. Have some fun.

re:#78 by Ramanujan
(Other than speculations, no one has been able to come up with anything. It is not for nothing that the Congress party or anybody else was unable to sue Modi.)
I think we have discussed this in great detail in the past. Whatever u may say, there is no doubt in my mind that Modi presided over a pogrom wherein more than 1000 innocent muslims were killed.
This article clearly pinpoints Gujarat govt`s culpability. Intelligence chief of Gujarat at the time has gone on record saying Gujarat govt was responsible for the massacre.
Excerpts:
(A police officer in India`s Gujarat state says the government there authorised the killing of Muslims three years ago.
RB Sreekumar made the allegation in notes he kept at the time while serving as Gujarat`s intelligence chief.)
(Officially more than 1,000 people, most of them Muslims, died in religious riots in Gujarat in 2002.

Human rights groups say many more were killed.

Mr Sreekumar was appointed intelligence chief in April, 2002. Sporadic violence was still occurring in Gujarat then, after the worst of the rioting in February and March.

His allegations relate to his dealings with the Gujarat government after his appointment.)
(In the notes, Mr Sreekumar also says that senior government officials sent messages asking him to kill Muslim extremists who were involved in rioting.)
(In another entry in May 2002, Mr Sreekumar wrote that Narendra Modi asked him to concentrate on suspected Muslim militants as hardline Hindu activists are ``not doing anything illegal``.)
That Modi has not been found guilty means nothing. In India, witnesses can be bought and if not bought, they are easily intimidated. That was one reason why the venue was shifted outside Gujarat. Still, it is a tall order to prosecute Modi, who is all powerful in that state. That is a shame that India has to live with. It also shows India`s democracy has a long way to go.
Sridhar

`` And it is easy to see why. Europe, especially France is at loss of words over Iran issue. It was Iran’s closest partner during its war with Iraq. Yet today, France feels betrayed by Iran’s refusal to stop Uranium enrichment program in Iran. ``

France was a big ally of Saddam Hussein. They supplied Iraq with Mirage jets. They were second leading supplier of weapons to Iraq after USSR. The accidental attack on USS Stark (US frigate) by Iraqi air force was done by an Exocet missile fired by Iraqi Mirage F-1.