Remembering Allama Iqbal

``I am strongly against this ummah concept, there is some clear-cut poetry that tries to bring the ummah together.``
****I do not even know what ummah is other than the interaction I have had with you in this board. It seems that it is a pan-ethnic effort to organize Muslims against all other religions. If this is correct, it is a totally absurd and suicidal. The prostitution of poetry to that end will result in the decline of the language that has that kind of poetry.****

``It`s horrible to use ummah-centric poetry to wage jehad or destruction in the world. ``

****I have already indicated my agreement above.****

As for my expectations from you: I assumed that being a Muslim you might have greater knowledge of the fall of Iqbal, particularly in view of #45. Of course, it is perfectly OK to not worry about that aspect of Iqbal`s life. As I have clearly stated in #194, my objectives are two: Firstly, if Iqbal has fabricated interesting thoughts, I would like to enjoy them. Secondly, I would like to promote South Asia.

Re: # 194

I am not sure if you got my drift. I am strongly against this ummah concept, but there is some clear-cut poetry that tries to bring the ummah together. It is great to bring any community together when you have a constructive goal on the horizon. It`s horrible to use ummah-centric poetry to wage jehad or destruction in the world. Unfortunately, there is more emphasis on the latter vs. the former. Beyond that, this subject area is of least interest to me. My lack of interest should not hold you back from discussing or analyzing this subject area. I am sure there are many on Chowk (excluding me) who would love to comment on your discoveries in this context.

Naqshbandi sahib:

I missed your post completely. here is Iqbal on Khushhaal Khan.

It is called the : Last Will of Khushhaal Khan Khataak. Very Powerful indeed!

Re: # 193, ZahraJ:
Due to a hectic weekend, I am replying now.

You probably have had epiphanies in your write-ups and I do not know enough Urdu to fully respond to the couplets quoted by you.

One thing is clear that you have pain due to ``misuse`` of Iqbal by the wicked in ummah. That is most likely to be true, i.e., Iqbal may have been deliberately misunderstood and exploited for the politicians` purposes. However, my pain is more fundamental because I feel that he was exploited by the British politicians and he, himself, fell victim to the clever ruses and fate. I grant him his fate but I want to learn and identify the unfortunate circumstances which moved him from the content of your comment in #45 to the divider he himself became. Forget the petty and obviously exploitative politicians.

So what are we to do? My compromise is that I enjoy the literature but discard the social philosophy of Iqbal, particularly in the context of the United South Asia. I am not naa-ummiid about the return of sane conditions that would obviate the division/partition. Yes, such of my generation may not live to see the change but while we are there we will strengthen understanding and toleration and try to make do with - what I believe - are petty quarrels. Vo subah kabhii to aayegii.

India has adopted the path of reconciliation by accepting the Mulims in India and giving them same fundamental rights as any other Indian irrespective of the Iqbal`s ``two nations theory`` and the achivement of the fruit thereof by Jinnah. My fond hope is that the new generations of South Asians will abrogate the illusion that was engendered by International Politics and the local promoters of dstrust among the people (period).

Finally, I urge you to pursue your epiphany/reevalution of the deluding concepts of ummah/millat or whatever that leads to systematic division of people(period). I would enjoy the pursuit if you are willing to undergo the labor of a Chowk article.

Inquirer -

I do not know if you ever watched the documentary by Discovery Times on Pakistan and the Nuclear Jehad. If you didn`t then do care to look into it. In addition to that, there are a few others that will be aired sometime in May. The documentary was excellently done. It was thought provoking, but kind of sad. When you watch the documentary in light of some couplets by Iqbal, there are issues. And the issues are mostly around the interpretation.

The very thought about...

~Millat Kae Saath Rabtae Ustavaa`r Rakh
Pae`vastaa Reh Shajar Sae Umeedae` Bahar Rakh

What if that millat believes in going for a mad Jehad? What if that millat believes in launching taliban style government in NWFP and the rest of the provinces? What if that millat continues to tear down any posters with the pictures of women, music, poetry and prose? What if that millat does not believe in giving women equal rights and roles? These were some of the important issues that were brought up in the documentary led by a female Pakistani journalist/documentary specialist. I have forgotten the woman`s name. Her tour to NWFP and some areas where the guns and other stuff is made and sold to anyone who can pay was an eye opener and of immense concern.

Iqbal died in 1938. Today is his 68th death anniversary. To tell you the truth, I did not even remember that he never got to see the results of his ideologues. I think his focus on millat/ummah was the result of what was happening during the pre-partition days. As a Muslim, he had certain expectations from his fellow Muslims. And he wanted the Muslims to be at a certain level of perfection, class and goodness. Like any other poet, his poetry kind of led us to believe in those images. Those images could be of belief, hope, concern for the youth, love, knowledge and hundreds of other areas.

Following are a few beautiful examples:

Na Ho Nau`meed, Nau`meedi Zavalae` Ilm`o`Irfaan Hae
Umeed Murdae` Momin hae Khuda kae Raaz`danoan Mae

Tae`rae Sofae` Haen Afrangi, Tae`rae Kaleen Irani
Lahoo Mujh Ko Rulati Hae Javanoan Kee Tun Asaani

In my view, in today`s day and age that much focus on millat/ummah is not healthy for the Muslims. This focus on ummah will isolate the Muslims from the rest of the world. It will always be us vs. them. And that`s where some of his couplets can be misread or misinterpreted.

On the other end, Jawahra brought up an interesting point on Ummah in one of her interacts under her article on FGM. Among Muslims(I cannot say about others), the concept, pupose and evolution of Ummah is debatable and needs more intellectual discussion to either have a consensus or a better understanding.

Just like nuclear technology, poetry and religion can be used or abused to achieve certain objectives. Ironically, those objective do not need to be in compliance with human well being.

Re: # 190, mannyd:

You must be trying to be Spanish!!

Re: # 189, ZahraJ:
Even though there is some reason to conclude from #183 that I was planning to leave due to frustrations with you, it was really of small significance. I appreciate your note and am happy to continue.

In a place like Chowk, I grant everyone to take their own positions irrespective of convergence (that is of essence) but subsequent to #86 I was disappointed that nobody took issue with my position that such a brilliant man had the misfortune of capitulating to divisive social behavior. Even if someone had totally opposed me, I could have stood a chance of acquiring a truer perspective on Iqbal who I admire tremendously. There is a simile between him and Firaq of Allahabad. It would be an involved discussion but I just mention it to illustrate how complex life is.

I would be interested seeing further from you about issues that you have hinted at in your second paragraph.

Now, let me see if I can understand mannyd, #190, the man of few words!

A good article from Muslim POV, but the interacts were just fantastic.

ZehraJ #189: Just a simple ` very sweet` can not be good as `Spanish can be very, very, very, very, very sweet`.

So Inquirer failed to make the grade, but you were encouraging him to be confident like you.
Do you have epiphanies all by yourself or do you use help, Spanish or otherwise?

Re: # 187

That`s very sweet. There is no need to make excuses to share your perspectives. Be confident! Say it loud and clear regardless of what your adversaries may think of your views. That`s life.

I saw something in the recent documentary on Pakistan - Jehad. I want to write a few things that have been bothering me. Unfortunately, I do not have the time to list those. But there are people out there who will use Iqbal`s poetry to engage in negative ummah-centric activities. I do not have answers right now. I have more questions. In the process of writing, I may experience some kind of an epiphany that leads me to some answers. I do not khow. Will explore later.

jang bhai:
it is a misfortune that for last 500 600 years there have been a long line of crazies after crazies being produced in the muslim world. today`s disillusionment and intellectual vacuum is not really the fault of this generation but such `intellectual giants` like imam ghazali, shariati, ibne banna, iqbal, mohammad ali johar etc. etc. there is a reason that you wont find any scholarly work or historical precedence (in mainstream-islam) pertaining to the off the cuff reinterpretation theories being espoused by every x,y,z today.
the reason being that there is noone in these Islamic greats who could have predicted what was in store for ``islam the next generation``.

Re: # 101,NHK:
I had quit this thread but I found that I had not responded to you. I had seriously intended to, so this return.

Your statement is perfectly sensible. I believe it is a truthful summary of the situation similar to my analysis in #86. The primary reason I am writing this is to find out about Javid Iqbal`s reappraisal of his father`s ideology. Are there any published reports?

Also, please allow me to repost your statement as a summary of truth:

Iqbal was a powerful poet - a Sialkoti hookah smoking comfortabble person. also drank. a normal muslim.

forgive also his theories of `khudi` - a good doze of it caming from German philosophers.

but then he got lost somewhere - sometimes socialist, some times Al Qaida, some time nationalist.

But I do not think a person like him would have gone for theocracy or the Ummah that we now conceptualize.

his shikwa & jiwab-e-shiwa is lajawab.

His son, the retired justice, initially interprated him in radical islamic form - now he has changed his mind & says that his father was not a radical; and believed in continuous reformation of islamic ideas.

nhk

#185.. regarding the best muslim philosopher..that is so derogatory..its kinda like the best african-american physicist.

i dont know but for many of us claiming one poetry to be greater than other is a tough call. for some its all good and for most its all goblygook, unless it by anand bakshi and is set to music by s.d. burman.

i dont get poetry, much less urdu poetry. if iqbal is an epitome of modern ``islamic`` philosophy, can you name 4 other peers who were #2, 3, 4 and 5? or was he #1 and the only one? its all very confusing for some of us philistines.

Re: # 183

Well-meaning hindu: That`s it ?

Bye Bye (*waves*)

I give up. I hope zeemax figures out the logic of ZahraJ. I am out of this thread!

Re: # 178

Zeemax:

It took you very long to put this in black and white :) Thank you for the sweet and simple classic. Are you sure there was no hidden reference to hindus and muslims here? :)