Remembering Allama Iqbal
Farzana Hassan April 12, 2006
#1 Posted by nasah on April 12, 2006 11:34:32 am
Allama Iqbal was the Einstein of Islamofascism........
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#2 Posted by wiseguyin on April 12, 2006 11:54:43 am
[Offtopic].
This topic reminds me of a Letter to Editor that I read in The Nation (paki newspaper). One
guy had read how Iqbals` granddad was converted to Islam. The poor chap was so
distraught and said that Indians` were spreading misinformation on the Internet. He also
asked for some ``knowledgable`` muslim to provide the correct account.
Nobody responded.
This topic reminds me of a Letter to Editor that I read in The Nation (paki newspaper). One
guy had read how Iqbals` granddad was converted to Islam. The poor chap was so
distraught and said that Indians` were spreading misinformation on the Internet. He also
asked for some ``knowledgable`` muslim to provide the correct account.
Nobody responded.
#3 Posted by pmishra2 on April 12, 2006 11:55:48 am
An excerpt from Autumn Leaves by Ram Nath Kak may be recalled:
“Another interesting case of a different type is that of Mohammad Iqbal, the poet and originator of the idea of Pakistan. His grandfather Sahaj Ram Sapru, a revenue collector, embezzled funds and when discovered, the Afghan governor Azim Khan gave him the choice of death or conversion to Islam. Sahaj Ram Sapru chose life and, assuming new names (Shaikh Rafiq was one), he and his family moved to Sialkot in the (sic) Punjab. Later Iqbal never acknowledged his native Kashmiri and Indian tradition that his grandfather had been so cruelly forced to renounce.”
“Another interesting case of a different type is that of Mohammad Iqbal, the poet and originator of the idea of Pakistan. His grandfather Sahaj Ram Sapru, a revenue collector, embezzled funds and when discovered, the Afghan governor Azim Khan gave him the choice of death or conversion to Islam. Sahaj Ram Sapru chose life and, assuming new names (Shaikh Rafiq was one), he and his family moved to Sialkot in the (sic) Punjab. Later Iqbal never acknowledged his native Kashmiri and Indian tradition that his grandfather had been so cruelly forced to renounce.”
#4 Posted by jang on April 12, 2006 12:13:29 pm
a sympathetic article on iqbal from kamath
http://www.kamat.com/kalranga/itihas/vds.htm
http://www.kamat.com/kalranga/itihas/vds.htm
#5 Posted by Kulharee on April 12, 2006 12:30:21 pm
Re: # 3
Mishra Sahib, what is grandpas have to do with what Iqbal’s ideology represents? Do you mean to say that if Gandhi’s father was a convicted thief, Indians should reject the Bapu?
His favorite food was Palao and Maash ki Daal (Maash Lentil).
Now 2 shaers for you:
Iqbal baRa updayshak hey, mun batooN maeN monh leta hey
Guftaar ka who Ghazi tu bana, Kirdar ka Ghazi ban na Saka
And
Masjid tu bana di shab bhar maeN, eemaN ki hararat walooN nay
Mun apna purana papee tha, barssoN maeN nimazi ban na Saka
His motivational, inspirational, and philosophical poetry alone is enough of an accomplishment for any human being. He is one of a kind. My only issue with Iqbal is that every thing in Lahore is named after him – from Airport to roads, to restaurants, to Haji da Chabba to PikoRa stand and bicycle repair shop near my house. Let Iqbal rest in peace.
Peace.
Mishra Sahib, what is grandpas have to do with what Iqbal’s ideology represents? Do you mean to say that if Gandhi’s father was a convicted thief, Indians should reject the Bapu?
His favorite food was Palao and Maash ki Daal (Maash Lentil).
Now 2 shaers for you:
Iqbal baRa updayshak hey, mun batooN maeN monh leta hey
Guftaar ka who Ghazi tu bana, Kirdar ka Ghazi ban na Saka
And
Masjid tu bana di shab bhar maeN, eemaN ki hararat walooN nay
Mun apna purana papee tha, barssoN maeN nimazi ban na Saka
His motivational, inspirational, and philosophical poetry alone is enough of an accomplishment for any human being. He is one of a kind. My only issue with Iqbal is that every thing in Lahore is named after him – from Airport to roads, to restaurants, to Haji da Chabba to PikoRa stand and bicycle repair shop near my house. Let Iqbal rest in peace.
Peace.
#6 Posted by jang on April 12, 2006 12:42:44 pm
i remember the republic day parade with the indian army band playing iqbals song.
#7 Posted by VRV on April 12, 2006 12:48:32 pm
This is the major difference between the commentators of India and Pakistan. A Pakistani would dwelve deep into the religious moorings and quote extensively the link between the religion and Pakistan. However, if one wants a scholarly insight into the life of Iqbal, one must read a book by Rajmohan Gandhi on Great Indian Muslims. He chronicled the lives - political lives - of Syed Ahmed Khan, Iqbal, Jinnah, Mohmmed Ali et al.
To say that Iqbal sought the Unity of Ummah, then he should have sought the integration of all muslim countries. He never did it.
As a person of Kashmiri origin (he was the first generation of Hindu-Pandit convert to Islam), he was mild in his approach and mostly scholarly in his outlook. He was heading the All India Muslim League, when Jinnah was too tired of his isolation in Muslim League, not to mention the two factions of the ML going in two different directions in their political journies; Iqbal came in as a perfect foil for gluing the bickering factions of All India Muslim League: too soothing and two mild to be faction leader of the All India body of Muslims. His speeches, true his learning, were too scholarly and tangetial too the issues of Muslim League. On a larger canvass, we can say that he envisaged a unit (not an independent one) within India as a homeland for Muslims in India. At that time Rahmat Ali did not bring out his famous Pakistan pamphlet. Round Table meetings were being held in London. Even on religion he was for interpretation of the precepts than for staraight-jacket application of Quranic prescriptions in our lands. That was something nobody can dare say, leave alone speakout from a podium in our region.
Farzana gets it wrong that India and Pakistan were partitioned. Wrong. It was India that was partitioned into Hindustan and Pakistan. On legalese Hindustan claimed the title of India and Pakistan couldn`t for the obvious political reasons, though Pakistan has the first claim for the title of India as Indus river goes through Pakistan like a spinal chrod through a fish. Dont forget that India was the country of river Indus. Thank god, you didn`t change the name to river Pakistan. For our luck, we claimed the zillion dollar worth brand name, India. In fact Jinnah bickered with Nehru on Hindustan replacing India in International fora. He contested that neither of which (two: Hinduatn and Pakistan) could claim to succeed India in international sphere (Page 480, Transfer of Power Vol XI, the Indian affiars on 17th June 1947).
If a scholar like Mr. Stephen Cohen (author of `Idea of Pakistan`) writes that Pakistanis are Indians, he is not crazy of foolish. One should read and re-read the word partition to know what it connotes. Imagine a big palace. Two brothers fought for the property, say Taj palace. The Guardian of the two gave major portion, say ``A`` to the elder brother and younger brother was given a portion ``B``. The owner of portion ``A`` claimed the title of Taj palace and owner of portion of ``B`` called his portion by some other name. Now Taj palace was partitioned into A and B. Both A and B are parts of Taj palalce. Therefore, dear author, you cant say A and B are partitioned. That`s how the word partition is explained. Pakistan, by all means is part of India (Indian Subcontinent) but not part of Indian Union/ Indian Republic.
As for the religious subject in the Iqbal`s life. it`s all too familiar and we appreciate his knowledge. Dont take his work as a idealogical backgound for creation of Pakistan though this this idea was partly true. His advocay for creation of Ummah is not understandable, though. However idealistic, the idea would remain on paper for all times. Even arabs of Arabian peninsula Yemen, UAE, Oman and KSA can`t unify into one unit, then forget about the unification of all Muslim countries. Same is the case with Hindu kindom of Nepal, Indian Union and Christian countries like USA, Canada and Mexico of North America and all catholic countries of South America and same is the case with Europe.
To say that Iqbal sought the Unity of Ummah, then he should have sought the integration of all muslim countries. He never did it.
As a person of Kashmiri origin (he was the first generation of Hindu-Pandit convert to Islam), he was mild in his approach and mostly scholarly in his outlook. He was heading the All India Muslim League, when Jinnah was too tired of his isolation in Muslim League, not to mention the two factions of the ML going in two different directions in their political journies; Iqbal came in as a perfect foil for gluing the bickering factions of All India Muslim League: too soothing and two mild to be faction leader of the All India body of Muslims. His speeches, true his learning, were too scholarly and tangetial too the issues of Muslim League. On a larger canvass, we can say that he envisaged a unit (not an independent one) within India as a homeland for Muslims in India. At that time Rahmat Ali did not bring out his famous Pakistan pamphlet. Round Table meetings were being held in London. Even on religion he was for interpretation of the precepts than for staraight-jacket application of Quranic prescriptions in our lands. That was something nobody can dare say, leave alone speakout from a podium in our region.
Farzana gets it wrong that India and Pakistan were partitioned. Wrong. It was India that was partitioned into Hindustan and Pakistan. On legalese Hindustan claimed the title of India and Pakistan couldn`t for the obvious political reasons, though Pakistan has the first claim for the title of India as Indus river goes through Pakistan like a spinal chrod through a fish. Dont forget that India was the country of river Indus. Thank god, you didn`t change the name to river Pakistan. For our luck, we claimed the zillion dollar worth brand name, India. In fact Jinnah bickered with Nehru on Hindustan replacing India in International fora. He contested that neither of which (two: Hinduatn and Pakistan) could claim to succeed India in international sphere (Page 480, Transfer of Power Vol XI, the Indian affiars on 17th June 1947).
If a scholar like Mr. Stephen Cohen (author of `Idea of Pakistan`) writes that Pakistanis are Indians, he is not crazy of foolish. One should read and re-read the word partition to know what it connotes. Imagine a big palace. Two brothers fought for the property, say Taj palace. The Guardian of the two gave major portion, say ``A`` to the elder brother and younger brother was given a portion ``B``. The owner of portion ``A`` claimed the title of Taj palace and owner of portion of ``B`` called his portion by some other name. Now Taj palace was partitioned into A and B. Both A and B are parts of Taj palalce. Therefore, dear author, you cant say A and B are partitioned. That`s how the word partition is explained. Pakistan, by all means is part of India (Indian Subcontinent) but not part of Indian Union/ Indian Republic.
As for the religious subject in the Iqbal`s life. it`s all too familiar and we appreciate his knowledge. Dont take his work as a idealogical backgound for creation of Pakistan though this this idea was partly true. His advocay for creation of Ummah is not understandable, though. However idealistic, the idea would remain on paper for all times. Even arabs of Arabian peninsula Yemen, UAE, Oman and KSA can`t unify into one unit, then forget about the unification of all Muslim countries. Same is the case with Hindu kindom of Nepal, Indian Union and Christian countries like USA, Canada and Mexico of North America and all catholic countries of South America and same is the case with Europe.
#8 Posted by HP on April 12, 2006 1:10:30 pm
#7 by VRV
Thank you sir for an excellent post! On this site, we rarely see people with a fresh and humanitarian perspective of the cultural relations between the two countries.
I Agree with most of what you wrote.
Appreciate your candor and insight. Look forward to reading your posts.
#9 Posted by ali_1 on April 12, 2006 1:22:29 pm
#2 by wiseguyin
``[Offtopic]
This topic reminds me of a Letter to Editor that I read in The Nation (paki newspaper). ``
Off topic continued: This is how the hordes of computer operators that we have allowed in this country waste their employer`s time and resources, causing a drain on our overall economy too. Reading ``Letters to Editor`` of ``The Nation``, whoa!! What kind of Pakistan obsessed maniac Hindutva freak will read ``Letters to Editor`` of ``The Nation``?
``[Offtopic]
This topic reminds me of a Letter to Editor that I read in The Nation (paki newspaper). ``
Off topic continued: This is how the hordes of computer operators that we have allowed in this country waste their employer`s time and resources, causing a drain on our overall economy too. Reading ``Letters to Editor`` of ``The Nation``, whoa!! What kind of Pakistan obsessed maniac Hindutva freak will read ``Letters to Editor`` of ``The Nation``?
#10 Posted by Inquirer on April 12, 2006 1:24:02 pm
Re: # 6, jang:
Saare jahaan se achchhaa Hindostaan hamaaraa,
Ham bulbulein hain usskii, wo gulsitaan hamaara.
Mazhab nahiin sikhaataa aapas mein bair rakhna,
Hindi hain ham vatan hai Hindostaan hamaaraa.
Iqbal was and is a great poet but Farzana, the reality is generally the reverse of what you state in:
``...it is one of the ironies of life that turbulent times foster loftiness of character and human endeavor ...``
Greatness generally emerges in the peaceful times; it is true that the turmoil often provides it an opportunity to become known. There is as much chance of degeneration in of quality in turmoil as in enhancement.
In the examples that you quote two out of three degenerated while one transcended to greater height. Let me explain.
Jinnah as well as Iqbal both of whom were persons of great quality during the peaceful times at a great cost to themselves fell from height. I cannot say what led to a volte face in the case of Iqbal but during last five years of life he did not qualify for the lines he once penned. People who are informed about the trials and tribulations that he went through should shed light on the salient features. However, Jinnah just out of the bitternes that Gandhi ji had displaced him as a Congress leader became vindictive, obsessed and did things that would denigrate him in History. He probably joined in the underhanded conspiracy with the British to drag down the resurgent India. This can be known for sure only if the British-Indian Papers in the British Archives become available to the Public.
Gandhi ji, on the other hand, rose to far greater heights. He could have easily(!), easy for me to say, abandoned his considerate approach for Muslims and lower caste Hindus. The power to rule India existed with him forever. Nehru and Patel and every other leader in India would have loved to work under him. But he chose the more difficult path. He upheld the right of the secessionist Muslims for the part of Indian treasury. He even protected them in Noakhali at the moment of glory on August 15, 1947. If only he had just once renounced the support for Indian Muslims it would be impossible for ANY OF THEM to continue to live in India. Every single one of them would have been issued a foreigner`s visa and put on the train to Pakistan.
Returning to Iqbal, he was no doubt a great poet but unfortunately he prostituted himself in the social and people`s service field. Due to this his stature as a human being is, forever, diminished. That does not mean that we can not - should not - enjoy is way with words. As a philosopher he is confined to the small cause he championed.
Saare jahaan se achchhaa Hindostaan hamaaraa,
Ham bulbulein hain usskii, wo gulsitaan hamaara.
Mazhab nahiin sikhaataa aapas mein bair rakhna,
Hindi hain ham vatan hai Hindostaan hamaaraa.
Iqbal was and is a great poet but Farzana, the reality is generally the reverse of what you state in:
``...it is one of the ironies of life that turbulent times foster loftiness of character and human endeavor ...``
Greatness generally emerges in the peaceful times; it is true that the turmoil often provides it an opportunity to become known. There is as much chance of degeneration in of quality in turmoil as in enhancement.
In the examples that you quote two out of three degenerated while one transcended to greater height. Let me explain.
Jinnah as well as Iqbal both of whom were persons of great quality during the peaceful times at a great cost to themselves fell from height. I cannot say what led to a volte face in the case of Iqbal but during last five years of life he did not qualify for the lines he once penned. People who are informed about the trials and tribulations that he went through should shed light on the salient features. However, Jinnah just out of the bitternes that Gandhi ji had displaced him as a Congress leader became vindictive, obsessed and did things that would denigrate him in History. He probably joined in the underhanded conspiracy with the British to drag down the resurgent India. This can be known for sure only if the British-Indian Papers in the British Archives become available to the Public.
Gandhi ji, on the other hand, rose to far greater heights. He could have easily(!), easy for me to say, abandoned his considerate approach for Muslims and lower caste Hindus. The power to rule India existed with him forever. Nehru and Patel and every other leader in India would have loved to work under him. But he chose the more difficult path. He upheld the right of the secessionist Muslims for the part of Indian treasury. He even protected them in Noakhali at the moment of glory on August 15, 1947. If only he had just once renounced the support for Indian Muslims it would be impossible for ANY OF THEM to continue to live in India. Every single one of them would have been issued a foreigner`s visa and put on the train to Pakistan.
Returning to Iqbal, he was no doubt a great poet but unfortunately he prostituted himself in the social and people`s service field. Due to this his stature as a human being is, forever, diminished. That does not mean that we can not - should not - enjoy is way with words. As a philosopher he is confined to the small cause he championed.
#11 Posted by wiseguyin on April 12, 2006 1:26:15 pm
Re: # 9
Sir jee, I have the right to entertainment. It is fun watching pakis rant and rave about the
most freaking nonissues.
C`mon, dont be so cruel; us lowly coders also have the right to be entertained :p
Sir jee, I have the right to entertainment. It is fun watching pakis rant and rave about the
most freaking nonissues.
C`mon, dont be so cruel; us lowly coders also have the right to be entertained :p
#12 Posted by ali_1 on April 12, 2006 1:43:06 pm
#5 by Kulharee
``Mishra Sahib, what is grandpas have to do with what Iqbal’s ideology represents? Do you mean to say that if Gandhi’s father was a convicted thief, Indians should reject the Bapu?``
Kul sahib, he doesn`t have a problem with gramps being a thief, pilferage being a time honored banya traditions. Rather we are troubled by his conversion. Grandpa should have, like pkusra`s anscestor, accepted death over conversion and impaled himself on Azim Khan`s sword!
``Mishra Sahib, what is grandpas have to do with what Iqbal’s ideology represents? Do you mean to say that if Gandhi’s father was a convicted thief, Indians should reject the Bapu?``
Kul sahib, he doesn`t have a problem with gramps being a thief, pilferage being a time honored banya traditions. Rather we are troubled by his conversion. Grandpa should have, like pkusra`s anscestor, accepted death over conversion and impaled himself on Azim Khan`s sword!
#13 Posted by stuka on April 12, 2006 1:45:03 pm
Are you kidding me? Nation has the best columns and letters to editor. My only competing favourite is the columnist in News...Shireen Mazari.
#14 Posted by stuka on April 12, 2006 1:46:41 pm
``Reading ``Letters to Editor`` of ``The Nation``, whoa!! What kind of Pakistan obsessed maniac Hindutva freak will read ``Letters to Editor`` of ``The Nation``?
``
The same kind of India obsessed maniac who subscribes to Indian channels and hums the tune of South Indian songs. BWAHAHAHA!!
``
The same kind of India obsessed maniac who subscribes to Indian channels and hums the tune of South Indian songs. BWAHAHAHA!!
#15 Posted by HP on April 12, 2006 1:48:35 pm
``Are you kidding me? Nation has the best columns and letters to editor. My only competing favourite is the columnist in News``
Jokers really love comic sites....
#16 Posted by stuka on April 12, 2006 1:48:57 pm
Kulharee: Ali is right. There are plenty of thieves, and a thief only disgraces himself. A convert disgraces his religion, heritage and family name.
#17 Posted by HP on April 12, 2006 1:50:35 pm
Post Turtle
While suturing a cut on the hand of a 75-year-old Texas rancher whose hand was caught
in a gate while working cattle, the doctor struck up a conversation with the old man.
Eventually, the topic got around to former Texas Governor George W. Bush and his
elevation to the White House. The old Texan said, ``Well, ya know, Bush is a `post
turtle`.`` Not being familiar with the term, the doctor asked him what a `post turtle`
was.
The old rancher said, ``When you`re driving down a country road and you come across a
fence post with a turtle balanced on top, that`s a post turtle.``
The old man saw a puzzled look on the doctor`s face, so he continued to explain, ``You
know he didn`t get there by himself, he doesn`t belong there, he doesn`t know what to do
while he`s up there, and you just want to help the dumb shit get down!``
While suturing a cut on the hand of a 75-year-old Texas rancher whose hand was caught
in a gate while working cattle, the doctor struck up a conversation with the old man.
Eventually, the topic got around to former Texas Governor George W. Bush and his
elevation to the White House. The old Texan said, ``Well, ya know, Bush is a `post
turtle`.`` Not being familiar with the term, the doctor asked him what a `post turtle`
was.
The old rancher said, ``When you`re driving down a country road and you come across a
fence post with a turtle balanced on top, that`s a post turtle.``
The old man saw a puzzled look on the doctor`s face, so he continued to explain, ``You
know he didn`t get there by himself, he doesn`t belong there, he doesn`t know what to do
while he`s up there, and you just want to help the dumb shit get down!``
#18 Posted by stuka on April 12, 2006 1:50:46 pm
Jokers really love comic sites....
True. You should read up ``strategy sites`` like www.onion.com, more suited for your tastes.
#19 Posted by HP on April 12, 2006 1:53:46 pm
The President, First Lady and Dick Cheney were flying on Air Force One.
George looked at Laura, chuckled and said, ``You know, I could throw a
$1,000 bill out of the window right now and make somebody very happy.``
Laura shrugged her shoulders and replied, ``I could throw ten $100 bills
out of the window and make ten people very happy.``
Cheney added, ``That being the case, I could throw one hundred $10 bills
out of the window and make a hundred people very happy.``
Hearing their exchange, the pilot rolled his eyes and said to his
co-pilot, ``Such big-shots back there. Hell, I could throw all of them
out of the window and make 56 million people very happy!
#20 Posted by stuka on April 12, 2006 1:56:22 pm
Air India Now Offers Business Caste Seating
April 12, 2006 | Issue 42•15
MUMBAI—Air India, the subcontinent`s largest airline, announced it will offer upgraded Business Caste seating on all flights starting in July. ``More legroom, wider seats—and no need to associate with the manual laborers,`` a spokesman for the airline said Tuesday. ``Our business travelers must have lived good past lives to deserve this.`` Air India still ranks at the bottom of the airline industry in customer satisfaction, with a high volume of complaints about cooking fires in the climate-uncontrolled cabins, wandering cows that flight attendants refuse to remove, and the ``Untouchable`` Coach Caste, which is towed behind Air India jetliners in a giant burlap sack.
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#21 Posted by wiseguyin on April 12, 2006 1:58:22 pm
Re: # 13
You read Shireen Mazari ?????????????
Do u enjoy reading it ?
Thats a lesser crime u know :)
You read Shireen Mazari ?????????????
Do u enjoy reading it ?
Thats a lesser crime u know :)
#22 Posted by ali_1 on April 12, 2006 2:00:18 pm
stuka # 16:
``A convert disgraces his religion, heritage and family name. ``
Its rich on your part to call a collection of pagan rituals including performing human sacrifice and eating animal excrement ``religion``.
``A convert disgraces his religion, heritage and family name. ``
Its rich on your part to call a collection of pagan rituals including performing human sacrifice and eating animal excrement ``religion``.
#23 Posted by stuka on April 12, 2006 2:06:12 pm
Ali:
As opposed to waving your collective backsides at the moon, raping six year old girls and blowing your selves up for a supposed collection of virgins?
Yeah, compared to those phukked up rituals and pagan attitudes, ours is a religion.
As opposed to waving your collective backsides at the moon, raping six year old girls and blowing your selves up for a supposed collection of virgins?
Yeah, compared to those phukked up rituals and pagan attitudes, ours is a religion.
#24 Posted by stuka on April 12, 2006 2:10:49 pm
Ali
My apologies. I have my own personal views about religious conversion be it from any religion. My last post was written in anger and I was more interested in matching insult for insult. However, since the initial insult was mine (though inadvertant) I apologize for my last post. Hope you accwept in good grace.
My apologies. I have my own personal views about religious conversion be it from any religion. My last post was written in anger and I was more interested in matching insult for insult. However, since the initial insult was mine (though inadvertant) I apologize for my last post. Hope you accwept in good grace.
#25 Posted by ali_1 on April 12, 2006 2:14:12 pm
#23 you seem to be a victim of the 24/7 propaganda spewed by the Indian media.
#26 Posted by stuka on April 12, 2006 2:17:08 pm
Dude, u know I live in the bay area. My exposure to Indian media is the same as yours. But that has nothing to do with insulting someone. I could prolly make some stuff up on the fly regardless of your religion. Like if u were Parsi, I could go off on vultures eating dead bodies. You of all people should know that. Are your insults on Hinduism solely due to Pakistani media???
#27 Posted by HP on April 12, 2006 2:19:15 pm
Okay cut it out guys! enough is enough...Here is a good one. From Onion.
Iranian satellite TV commercial for MasterCard:
Your first microphone: $200...
Your first satellite studio: $50,000...
Your first five cameras: $100,000...
Your first satellite antenna: $500,000...
Inviting people of Iran to start a revolution from a studio in Los Angles... priceless.
There are some things money can’t buy, for everything else, there is that $75 million in emergency funding to promote democracy in Iran.
* Accepted everywhere except the Islamic Republic of Iran.
Paid for by the US Department of State
#29 Posted by jang on April 12, 2006 2:21:48 pm
stuka.. dont make ali hold-back on his insults..they are priceless.
#30 Posted by stuka on April 12, 2006 2:22:45 pm
Hamas Calls For `Giant Summit` With All Israelis
February 15, 2006 | Issue 42•07
RAMALLAH, WEST BANK—After his militant Islamic party took the majority in Palestine`s recent elections, Ismail Haniyeh called for a ``giant summit with all living Israelis`` Monday, rekindling international hopes for peace in the war-torn region.
Ismail Haniyeh urges Israeli participation in ``bringing closure`` to conflict in the Middle East.
Haniyeh characterized the one-day summit as ``the final solution to the Israeli-Palestinian dispute,`` and invited every Jewish citizen of the world to attend. Haniyeh said he expects more than 5 million participants from Israel alone.
``It was foolish of us to think that a satisfactory resolution could be reached through small-scale aggression,`` Haniyeh said. ``It will take more than the sporadic deaths of small groups of Israeli civilians to achieve our ends.``
``This summit is long overdue,`` he added.
Haniyeh, who once said that Palestinian independence could only be achieved through the destruction of Israel, has apparently reversed his stance.
``It is clear to us now that a positive outcome will not be possible unless many, many sacrifices are made,`` Haniyeh said. ``I give my word that the Israeli people shall have their cries for peace heard for miles around.``
Haniyeh did not disclose the issues that will be discussed at the summit, saying only that he ``would be very surprised if the entire process took longer than a couple of hours.``
Haniyeh also extended an invitation to any high-ranking American official who would like to moderate the proceedings.
``We will achieve our goals with or without foreign help,`` Haniyeh said. ``However, if George W. Bush or other top-level U.S. officials wish to attend, it would certainly make those first, most difficult steps a lot easier to take.``
In a public statement Tuesday, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad endorsed the ``Hamas-led peace process,`` and offered the use of Tehran`s Azadi Stadium as an ``impartial location away from the distracting glare of publicity.``
``It is about time for a summit of this nature,`` Ahmadinejad said. ``The people of Iran will do anything they can to help further this crucial process.``
According to Haniyeh, Israelis need only arrive with an open mind, insisting that the summit can have a positive outcome only if traditional and long-standing prejudices ``are left at the door, along with any weapons, gas masks, or bulletproof vests.``
``Security is of the utmost importance, which is why the summit will be watched over by my most loyal and experienced men,`` Haniyeh said. ``To this end, every Israeli will also be marked with a six-digit protection number.``
Hamas has already gone to significant lengths to ensure that Israeli Jews will be able to attend the summit, including transportation via specially chartered freight trains.
``Very much like a cleansing fire, the summit will wipe the slate of Arab-Jewish relations utterly and irreversibly clean,`` Haniyeh said. ``By the end of our negotiations, those who walk out of the summit will be very pleased.``
``With the blessing of Allah, we will soon see every last obstacle standing in the path to harmony exterminated,`` Haniyeh added. ``Like the filthy dogs they are.``
No official response to Hamas` summit proposal has yet been made. However, it is widely believed that acting Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and his cabinet will propose an alternative mass summit to which Hamas party officials and their Palestinian supporters will be similarly welcomed.
#31 Posted by stuka on April 12, 2006 2:26:53 pm
Jang:
No, I enjoy his humor. The problem with online interaction is that words are taken in black and white with no context of emotion. Anyways, shite happens and we move on.
No, I enjoy his humor. The problem with online interaction is that words are taken in black and white with no context of emotion. Anyways, shite happens and we move on.
#32 Posted by bharath on April 12, 2006 2:37:03 pm
Ms.Hassan , glad to know you are the President of the pacifist group `Muslims Against Terrorism`. Once you have a Muslim majority in your neighbhourhood of Ontorio, shall we expect a liberation struggle for a Canadi-Pakistan in your neck of the woods?
#33 Posted by pmishra2 on April 12, 2006 2:58:47 pm
#5 kulharee
Just to set the record straight about islamic conversion by force. I am sick of hearing silly lies about ``peaceful sufi conversion``.
Once the relationship between violence and islamic conversion is clear,a lot of things fall into place. Iqbal`s attitudes can also been seen as a function of the violence visited on his family; a kind of stockholm syndrome.
Just to set the record straight about islamic conversion by force. I am sick of hearing silly lies about ``peaceful sufi conversion``.
Once the relationship between violence and islamic conversion is clear,a lot of things fall into place. Iqbal`s attitudes can also been seen as a function of the violence visited on his family; a kind of stockholm syndrome.
#34 Posted by freethinker on April 12, 2006 3:13:39 pm
As a poet of Urdu and Farsi, Iqbal was unparalelled and unexcelled. Those who have read his poems ``Tasveer-e-Dard,`` ``Shamah aur Shaaer,`` ``Shikwah`` ``Jawab-e-Shikwah,`` ``Masjad-e-Qurtbah`` and many others cannot remain unaffected by the beauty and excellence of his poetry.
In Shamah aur Shaaer, he (poet) complains and says to shamah:
Muddatay maanand-e- tu mun hum nafs mee sokhtam
Dar tawaaf-e-sholah-um baal-ey nah zudd parwanah-ee
(Like you, I too burnt my own self for a long time
Not a single gnat (parwanah) burnt its wings in my flame)
The shamah says in response:
Mein tau jalti hoo`n keh haiy muzmar meri fitrat mein soz
Tu froza`an haiy keh parwano`n ko ho saudah tera
On Karl Marx, he wrote:
Aa`n Kaleem-e-betajjalli, aa`n Maseeh-e-besaleeb
Neest paighambar wa-lekan dar baghal darad Kitab
(He (Marx) was Moses without Illumination, he was Messiah (Christ) without a Cross
He was not a prophet but had the book (Das Kapita) in the pit of his arm)
The books of Moses and Christ are Torah and Bible. He was a great poet. And you know, ``Shaaeri juzw-eest az paighambri.``
Mohammad Gill
In Shamah aur Shaaer, he (poet) complains and says to shamah:
Muddatay maanand-e- tu mun hum nafs mee sokhtam
Dar tawaaf-e-sholah-um baal-ey nah zudd parwanah-ee
(Like you, I too burnt my own self for a long time
Not a single gnat (parwanah) burnt its wings in my flame)
The shamah says in response:
Mein tau jalti hoo`n keh haiy muzmar meri fitrat mein soz
Tu froza`an haiy keh parwano`n ko ho saudah tera
On Karl Marx, he wrote:
Aa`n Kaleem-e-betajjalli, aa`n Maseeh-e-besaleeb
Neest paighambar wa-lekan dar baghal darad Kitab
(He (Marx) was Moses without Illumination, he was Messiah (Christ) without a Cross
He was not a prophet but had the book (Das Kapita) in the pit of his arm)
The books of Moses and Christ are Torah and Bible. He was a great poet. And you know, ``Shaaeri juzw-eest az paighambri.``
Mohammad Gill
#35 Posted by Ranjit on April 12, 2006 4:24:15 pm
India should award the Bharat Ratna, Padma Bhusan or some such high honor to Iqbal. Imagine if he had not provided his ``ideological`` framework and there was no partition - India would be in a horrible mess. More than 40% population would be muslim who would be setting off suicide bombs all over the place and committing terrorism up and down the entire subcontinent. There would have been huge quotas in all institutions not only on caste but religious basis. The Zamindari system of feudals would have continued so as not to offend muslims. Democracy would have become a joke with constant pandering to muslim sentiments. Economic progress would have been at a standstill with every issue evaluated based on communal grounds.
So Iqbal and Jinnah are true Indian heroes. They were the ultimate patriots. Perhaps their hindu ancestral genes kicked in as they decided to demand and separate muslims from hindus and give the lion share to India. Hindus did not have the guts to demand such a solution on their own since we are too politically correct. However, the muslims did it for us and handed over the subcontinent to us on a platter. Now we are enjoying a booming economy, overall resurgence as a nation and our hindu culture and religion is once again in bloom. Thank you Iqbal and Thank you Jinnah!! You guys are my heroes!!
#36 Posted by stuka on April 12, 2006 4:24:31 pm
PMishra:
Just to set the record straight about islamic conversion by force. I am sick of hearing silly lies about ``peaceful sufi conversion``.
What do you mean? In Punjab at least, conversion took place amongst entire clans and tribes in a voluntary manner.
Just to set the record straight about islamic conversion by force. I am sick of hearing silly lies about ``peaceful sufi conversion``.
What do you mean? In Punjab at least, conversion took place amongst entire clans and tribes in a voluntary manner.
#37 Posted by KaalChakra on April 12, 2006 5:32:19 pm
Stuka, PMishra
Few of us fully understand the matters of religious conversions and religious subversions. Both these areas demand systematic study from an Indian point of view.
Until, as a society, we make that investment, we will be dealing in speculation.
Few of us fully understand the matters of religious conversions and religious subversions. Both these areas demand systematic study from an Indian point of view.
Until, as a society, we make that investment, we will be dealing in speculation.
#38 Posted by pmishra2 on April 12, 2006 6:31:24 pm
#36 stuka
Please read my message #3 and response #5. I wasnt making a general statement, only a pretty specific one.
Please read my message #3 and response #5. I wasnt making a general statement, only a pretty specific one.
#39 Posted by stuka on April 12, 2006 6:40:07 pm
Remembering Allama Imzamam
Most cricketers, who are not comfortable in conversing in English go
prepared for some standard questions that are asked from them when
commentators chat with them during the awards ceremony.
Inzamam was once asked a different question after Pakistan won the match,
for which he was not prepared. He always had a standard response to the
first question. But this time.....
Tony Greig: So Inzi, that`s fantastic, your wife is pregnant for the
second time!
Inzamam: Bismillah-e-Rehman-e-Rahim! All credit goes to the boys. Everyone work hard for it, especially Afridi. It was tight situation when he went in. Also Bob Woolmer keeping close watch on progress and giving instructions. It`s all team effort. Insha Allah, we all will work together as a team, put in big effort and deliver good result all the time.
Tony fainted!!!!
Most cricketers, who are not comfortable in conversing in English go
prepared for some standard questions that are asked from them when
commentators chat with them during the awards ceremony.
Inzamam was once asked a different question after Pakistan won the match,
for which he was not prepared. He always had a standard response to the
first question. But this time.....
Tony Greig: So Inzi, that`s fantastic, your wife is pregnant for the
second time!
Inzamam: Bismillah-e-Rehman-e-Rahim! All credit goes to the boys. Everyone work hard for it, especially Afridi. It was tight situation when he went in. Also Bob Woolmer keeping close watch on progress and giving instructions. It`s all team effort. Insha Allah, we all will work together as a team, put in big effort and deliver good result all the time.
Tony fainted!!!!
#40 Posted by Kamath on April 12, 2006 6:48:14 pm
Re: # 13
Did I hear Shireen Mazari is your favourite? I admire her skill too. She has developed extraordinary experience and skills to curse Hindustan, Umrika, Jews, the West in her dreams. Don`t you ever stand in front of her, for she can spew venom after venom at you.
You can find her colomns in Jang, Pakistanlink, and if I am not mistaken in an Umrikan paper- is it Wasington Post-?
Kamath
Did I hear Shireen Mazari is your favourite? I admire her skill too. She has developed extraordinary experience and skills to curse Hindustan, Umrika, Jews, the West in her dreams. Don`t you ever stand in front of her, for she can spew venom after venom at you.
You can find her colomns in Jang, Pakistanlink, and if I am not mistaken in an Umrikan paper- is it Wasington Post-?
Kamath
#41 Posted by Kamath on April 12, 2006 6:53:54 pm
Re: # 34
Is there a good book available -- translation of his poems in N.America?
I liked his poem, `` Sare Janse acha, Hindustan Hamara........``
Is there a good book available -- translation of his poems in N.America?
I liked his poem, `` Sare Janse acha, Hindustan Hamara........``
#42 Posted by freethinker on April 12, 2006 7:25:02 pm
kamath:
You can find English translation of Iqbal`s works on Google. I am appending Iqbal`s Shikwah (Complaint) and Jawab-e-Shikwah (Response to the Complaint) hereunder. There are portions in these poems that you may like and appreciate. One of his very good poems is ``In Memory of the Deceased Mother`` in Baang-e-Dara.
Mohammad Gill
Iqbal`s
Shikwa and Jawab-e- Shikwa
( English translation of Iqbal`s reknowned poem on the state of Muslim umaa )
Shikwa:
Why should I abet the loss, why forget the gain,
Why forfiet the future, bemoan the past in vain?
Hear the wail of nightingale, and remain unstirred,
Am I a flower insensate that will not say a word?
The power of speech emboldens me to speak out my heart,
I`ll sure be damned, I know, if fault my God.
Hear, O Lord, from the faithful ones this sad lament,
From those used to hymn a praise, a word of discontent.
Eternally were you present, Lord, eternally omniscent,
The flower hung upon the tree, but without incense.
Be Thou fair, tell us true, O fountainhead of grace,
How could the scent spread without the breeze apace?
The world presented a queer sight ere we took the stage,
Stones and plants in your stead were worshipped in that age.
Man, being inured to senses, couldn`t accept a thing unseen,
How could a formless God impress his senses keen?
Tell me, Lord, if anyone ever invoked Thy name,
The strength of Muslim arm alone restored Thy fame.
There was no dearth of peoples on this earth before,
Turkish tribes and Persian clans lived in days of yore;
The Greeks and the Chinese both bred and throve,
Christians as well as the Jews on this planet roved.
But who in Thy holy name raised his valiant sword,
Who set the things right, resolved the rigmarole?
We were the warrior bands battling for Thy cause,
Now on land, now on water, we the crusades fought.
Now in Europe`s synods did we loudly pray,
Now in African deserts made a bold foray.
Not for territorial greed did we wield the sword,
Not for pelf and power did we suffer the blows.
Had we been temped by the greed of glittering gold,
Instead of breaking idols, would have idols sold.
We impressed on every heart the oneness of our mighty Lord,
Even under the threat of sword, bold and clever was our call.
Who conquered, tell us Thou, the fearful Khyber pass?
Who vanquished the Imperial Rome, who made it fall?
Who broke the idols of the primitive folks?
Who fought the kafirs, massacred their hordes?
If the prayer time arrived right amid the war,
With their faces turned to Kaaba, knelt down the brave Hejaz.
Mahmud and Ayaz stood together in the same flank,
The ruler and the ruled forget the difference in their rank.
The rich and poor, Lord and slave, all were levelled down,
All became brethern in love, with Thy grace crowned.
We roamed the world through, visited every place,
Did our rounds like the cup, serving sacred ale.
Forget about the forests, we spared not the seas,
Into the dark, unfathomed ocean, we pushed our steeds.
We removed falsehood from the earth`s face,
We broke the shackles of the human race.
We reclaimed your Kaaba with our kneeling brows,
We pressed the sacred Quran to our heart and soul.
Even then you grumble, we are false, untrue,
If you call us faithless, tell us what are you?
You reserve your favors for men of other shades,
While you hurl your bolts on the Muslim race.
This is not our complaint that such alone are blesse,
Who do not know the etiquette, nor even can converse.
The tragedy is while kafirs are with houries actually blest,
On vague hopes of houries in heaven the Muslim race is made to rest!
Poverty, taunts, ignominy stare us in the face,
Is humiliation the sole reward of our suffering race?
To perpetuate Thy name is our sole concern,
Deprived of the saqi`s aid can the cup revolve and turn?
Gone is your assemblage, off your lovers have sailed,
The midnight sights are no more heard, nor the morning wails;
They pledged their hearts to you, what is their return?
Hardly had they stepped inside, when they were externed.
Thy lovers came and went away, fed on hopes of future grace,
Search them now with the lamp of your glowing face.
Unassuaged is Laila`s ache, unquenched is Qais`s thirst,
In the wilderness of Nejd, the wild deer are still berserk.
The same passion thrills the hearts, enchanting still is beauty`s gaze,
You are the same as before, same too is the Prophet`s race.
Why then this indifference, without a cause or fault?
Why with your threatening looks dost thou break our heart?
Accepted that the flame of love burneth low and dim,
We do not, as in your, dance attendance on your whims;
But you too, pardon us, possess a coquettish heart,
Now on us, now on others, alight your amorous darts.
The spring has now taken leave, broken lies the lyre string,
The birds that chirped among the leaves have also taken wing;
A single nightingale is left singing on the tree,
A flood of song in her breast is longing for release.
From atop the firs and pines the doves have flown away,
The floral petals lie scattered all along the way.
Desolate lie the garden paths, once dressed and neat,
Leafless hang the branches on the naked trees.
The nightingale is unconcerned with the season`s range,
Would that someone in the grove appreciates her wail.
May the nightingale`s wail pierce the listeners` hearts,
May the clinking caravan awaken slumbering thoughts!
Let the hearts pledge anew their faith to you, O Lord,
Let`s re-charge our cups from the taverns of the past.
Through I hold a Persian cup, the wine is pureHejaz,
Thought I sing an Indian song, the turn is of the Arabian cast.
Jawab-e-Shikwa:
The word springing from the heart surely carries weight,
Though not endowed with wings, it yet can fly in space.
Pureand spiritual in its essence, it pegs its gaze on high,
Rising from the lowly dust, grazes past the skies.
Keen, defiant, and querulous was my passion crazed,
It pierced through the skies, my audacious wail.
``Someone is there,`` thus spoke the heaven`s warder old,
the planets said, ``From above proceeds this voice so bold.``
``No, no,`` the moon said,`` ``tis someone on the earth below,``
Butted in the milky way: ``The voice is hereabouts, I trow.``
Ruzwan alone, if at all, understood aright,
He knew it was the man, from heaven once exiled.
Even the angles wondered who raised this cry,
All the celestial denizens looked about surprised.
Does man possess the might to scale empyreal heights?
Has this mere pinch of dust learnt the knack to fly?
What are these earthly folks? Careless of all respect,
How bold and impudent, the lowly dwellers of the earth!
Extremely rude and insolent, cross even with God,
Is it the same Adam whom angels once did laud?
Steeped in bliss, man is of wisdom`s lore possessed,
Nonetheless, he`s alien to humility`s sterling worth.
Man feels proud of the power of his speech,
But the fool doesn`t know how and what to speak.
You narrate a woeful tale, thus the voice arose,
Your heart is boiling over with tears uncontrolled.
You have delivered your plaint with perfect skill and art,
You have brought the humans in contact with God.
We are inclined to grant, but none deserves our grace,
None treads the righteous path, whom to show the way?
Our school is open to all, but talent there is none,
Where is that soil fertile to breed the human gems?
We reward the deserving folks with splendid meed,
We grant newer worlds to those who strive and seek.
Arms have been drained of strength, hearts have gone astray,
The Muslim race is a blot on the Prophet`s face.
Idol-breakers have left the scene, idol-makers remain,
Aazar has inherited Abraham`s glorious name.
Wine, flask, and drinkers-all are new and changed,
A different Kaaba, different idols now your worship claim.
There was a time when you were respected far and wide,
Once this desert bloom was the season`s wealth and pride.
Every Muslim then was a lover profound of God,
Your sole beloved once was the all-embracing Lord.
Who removed falsehood from the earth`s face?
Who broke the shackles of the human race?
Who reclaimed our Kaaba with their kneeling brows?
Who presses the sacred Quran to their heart and soul?
True, they were your forbears, but what are you, I say?
Idle sitting, statue-like you dream away your days.
What did you say? Muslims are with hopes of houries consoled,
Even if your plaint is false, your words should be controlled.
Justice is the law supreme, operative on this globe,
Muslims can`t expect the houries, if they follow the kafir`s code.
None of you is, in fact, deserving of the ``hoor``,
A Moses is but hard to fin, burneth still the Tur.
Common to the race entire is their gain or loss,
Common is their faith and creed, common too the Rasul of God;
One Kaaba, one Allah, and one Quran inspire their heart,
Why can`t the Muslims then behave like a single lot?
Cast, creed and factions have disjointed this race,
Is this way to forge ahead, to flourish in the present age?
It`s the poor who visit the mosque, join the kneeling rows,
The poor alone observe the fasts, practise self-control.
If someone repeats our name, it`s the poor again,
The devout poor hide your sins, preserve your vaunted name.
Drunk with the wine of wealth, the rich are unconcerned with God,
The Muslim race owes its life to the poor, indigent lot.
``Muslims have vanished from earth,`` this is what we hear,
but we ask, `` Were the Muslims ever the Jewish sects.
You are Nisars by your looks, but Hindus by conduct,
Your culture puts to shame even the Jewish sects.
If the son is alien to his learned father`s traits,
How can he then claim his father`s heritage?
All of you love to lead a soft, luxurious life,
Are you a Muslim indeed? Is this the Muslim style?
All of you desire to be invested with the crown,
You should first produce a heart worthy of renown.
The new age is the lighting blast, it will set your barns on fire,
It can`t produce in groves or deserts the Old Sinai`s burning spire.
The new fire consumes for fuel the blood of nations old,
The clothes of the Prophet`s race are incinerated in its folds.
Don`t be depressed, gardener, by the present scene,
The starry buds are about to burst with a brilliant sheen.
The garden will soon be rid of its thorns and weeds,
The martyr`s blood will bring to bloom all the dormant seeds.
Mark how the sky reflects its orange purple hues,
The rising sun will flush the sky with its rays anew.
Islamic tree exemplifies cultivation long and hard,
A fruit of arduous gardening over centuries past.
Your caravan needn`t fear the perils of the path,
But for the call of bells you own no wealth at all.
You are the plant of light, the burning wick that never fails,
With the power of your thought you can incinerate the veil.
We`ll love you as our own, if you follow the Prophet`s ways,
The world is but a paltry thing, you`ll command the pen and page.
You can find English translation of Iqbal`s works on Google. I am appending Iqbal`s Shikwah (Complaint) and Jawab-e-Shikwah (Response to the Complaint) hereunder. There are portions in these poems that you may like and appreciate. One of his very good poems is ``In Memory of the Deceased Mother`` in Baang-e-Dara.
Mohammad Gill
Iqbal`s
Shikwa and Jawab-e- Shikwa
( English translation of Iqbal`s reknowned poem on the state of Muslim umaa )
Shikwa:
Why should I abet the loss, why forget the gain,
Why forfiet the future, bemoan the past in vain?
Hear the wail of nightingale, and remain unstirred,
Am I a flower insensate that will not say a word?
The power of speech emboldens me to speak out my heart,
I`ll sure be damned, I know, if fault my God.
Hear, O Lord, from the faithful ones this sad lament,
From those used to hymn a praise, a word of discontent.
Eternally were you present, Lord, eternally omniscent,
The flower hung upon the tree, but without incense.
Be Thou fair, tell us true, O fountainhead of grace,
How could the scent spread without the breeze apace?
The world presented a queer sight ere we took the stage,
Stones and plants in your stead were worshipped in that age.
Man, being inured to senses, couldn`t accept a thing unseen,
How could a formless God impress his senses keen?
Tell me, Lord, if anyone ever invoked Thy name,
The strength of Muslim arm alone restored Thy fame.
There was no dearth of peoples on this earth before,
Turkish tribes and Persian clans lived in days of yore;
The Greeks and the Chinese both bred and throve,
Christians as well as the Jews on this planet roved.
But who in Thy holy name raised his valiant sword,
Who set the things right, resolved the rigmarole?
We were the warrior bands battling for Thy cause,
Now on land, now on water, we the crusades fought.
Now in Europe`s synods did we loudly pray,
Now in African deserts made a bold foray.
Not for territorial greed did we wield the sword,
Not for pelf and power did we suffer the blows.
Had we been temped by the greed of glittering gold,
Instead of breaking idols, would have idols sold.
We impressed on every heart the oneness of our mighty Lord,
Even under the threat of sword, bold and clever was our call.
Who conquered, tell us Thou, the fearful Khyber pass?
Who vanquished the Imperial Rome, who made it fall?
Who broke the idols of the primitive folks?
Who fought the kafirs, massacred their hordes?
If the prayer time arrived right amid the war,
With their faces turned to Kaaba, knelt down the brave Hejaz.
Mahmud and Ayaz stood together in the same flank,
The ruler and the ruled forget the difference in their rank.
The rich and poor, Lord and slave, all were levelled down,
All became brethern in love, with Thy grace crowned.
We roamed the world through, visited every place,
Did our rounds like the cup, serving sacred ale.
Forget about the forests, we spared not the seas,
Into the dark, unfathomed ocean, we pushed our steeds.
We removed falsehood from the earth`s face,
We broke the shackles of the human race.
We reclaimed your Kaaba with our kneeling brows,
We pressed the sacred Quran to our heart and soul.
Even then you grumble, we are false, untrue,
If you call us faithless, tell us what are you?
You reserve your favors for men of other shades,
While you hurl your bolts on the Muslim race.
This is not our complaint that such alone are blesse,
Who do not know the etiquette, nor even can converse.
The tragedy is while kafirs are with houries actually blest,
On vague hopes of houries in heaven the Muslim race is made to rest!
Poverty, taunts, ignominy stare us in the face,
Is humiliation the sole reward of our suffering race?
To perpetuate Thy name is our sole concern,
Deprived of the saqi`s aid can the cup revolve and turn?
Gone is your assemblage, off your lovers have sailed,
The midnight sights are no more heard, nor the morning wails;
They pledged their hearts to you, what is their return?
Hardly had they stepped inside, when they were externed.
Thy lovers came and went away, fed on hopes of future grace,
Search them now with the lamp of your glowing face.
Unassuaged is Laila`s ache, unquenched is Qais`s thirst,
In the wilderness of Nejd, the wild deer are still berserk.
The same passion thrills the hearts, enchanting still is beauty`s gaze,
You are the same as before, same too is the Prophet`s race.
Why then this indifference, without a cause or fault?
Why with your threatening looks dost thou break our heart?
Accepted that the flame of love burneth low and dim,
We do not, as in your, dance attendance on your whims;
But you too, pardon us, possess a coquettish heart,
Now on us, now on others, alight your amorous darts.
The spring has now taken leave, broken lies the lyre string,
The birds that chirped among the leaves have also taken wing;
A single nightingale is left singing on the tree,
A flood of song in her breast is longing for release.
From atop the firs and pines the doves have flown away,
The floral petals lie scattered all along the way.
Desolate lie the garden paths, once dressed and neat,
Leafless hang the branches on the naked trees.
The nightingale is unconcerned with the season`s range,
Would that someone in the grove appreciates her wail.
May the nightingale`s wail pierce the listeners` hearts,
May the clinking caravan awaken slumbering thoughts!
Let the hearts pledge anew their faith to you, O Lord,
Let`s re-charge our cups from the taverns of the past.
Through I hold a Persian cup, the wine is pureHejaz,
Thought I sing an Indian song, the turn is of the Arabian cast.
Jawab-e-Shikwa:
The word springing from the heart surely carries weight,
Though not endowed with wings, it yet can fly in space.
Pureand spiritual in its essence, it pegs its gaze on high,
Rising from the lowly dust, grazes past the skies.
Keen, defiant, and querulous was my passion crazed,
It pierced through the skies, my audacious wail.
``Someone is there,`` thus spoke the heaven`s warder old,
the planets said, ``From above proceeds this voice so bold.``
``No, no,`` the moon said,`` ``tis someone on the earth below,``
Butted in the milky way: ``The voice is hereabouts, I trow.``
Ruzwan alone, if at all, understood aright,
He knew it was the man, from heaven once exiled.
Even the angles wondered who raised this cry,
All the celestial denizens looked about surprised.
Does man possess the might to scale empyreal heights?
Has this mere pinch of dust learnt the knack to fly?
What are these earthly folks? Careless of all respect,
How bold and impudent, the lowly dwellers of the earth!
Extremely rude and insolent, cross even with God,
Is it the same Adam whom angels once did laud?
Steeped in bliss, man is of wisdom`s lore possessed,
Nonetheless, he`s alien to humility`s sterling worth.
Man feels proud of the power of his speech,
But the fool doesn`t know how and what to speak.
You narrate a woeful tale, thus the voice arose,
Your heart is boiling over with tears uncontrolled.
You have delivered your plaint with perfect skill and art,
You have brought the humans in contact with God.
We are inclined to grant, but none deserves our grace,
None treads the righteous path, whom to show the way?
Our school is open to all, but talent there is none,
Where is that soil fertile to breed the human gems?
We reward the deserving folks with splendid meed,
We grant newer worlds to those who strive and seek.
Arms have been drained of strength, hearts have gone astray,
The Muslim race is a blot on the Prophet`s face.
Idol-breakers have left the scene, idol-makers remain,
Aazar has inherited Abraham`s glorious name.
Wine, flask, and drinkers-all are new and changed,
A different Kaaba, different idols now your worship claim.
There was a time when you were respected far and wide,
Once this desert bloom was the season`s wealth and pride.
Every Muslim then was a lover profound of God,
Your sole beloved once was the all-embracing Lord.
Who removed falsehood from the earth`s face?
Who broke the shackles of the human race?
Who reclaimed our Kaaba with their kneeling brows?
Who presses the sacred Quran to their heart and soul?
True, they were your forbears, but what are you, I say?
Idle sitting, statue-like you dream away your days.
What did you say? Muslims are with hopes of houries consoled,
Even if your plaint is false, your words should be controlled.
Justice is the law supreme, operative on this globe,
Muslims can`t expect the houries, if they follow the kafir`s code.
None of you is, in fact, deserving of the ``hoor``,
A Moses is but hard to fin, burneth still the Tur.
Common to the race entire is their gain or loss,
Common is their faith and creed, common too the Rasul of God;
One Kaaba, one Allah, and one Quran inspire their heart,
Why can`t the Muslims then behave like a single lot?
Cast, creed and factions have disjointed this race,
Is this way to forge ahead, to flourish in the present age?
It`s the poor who visit the mosque, join the kneeling rows,
The poor alone observe the fasts, practise self-control.
If someone repeats our name, it`s the poor again,
The devout poor hide your sins, preserve your vaunted name.
Drunk with the wine of wealth, the rich are unconcerned with God,
The Muslim race owes its life to the poor, indigent lot.
``Muslims have vanished from earth,`` this is what we hear,
but we ask, `` Were the Muslims ever the Jewish sects.
You are Nisars by your looks, but Hindus by conduct,
Your culture puts to shame even the Jewish sects.
If the son is alien to his learned father`s traits,
How can he then claim his father`s heritage?
All of you love to lead a soft, luxurious life,
Are you a Muslim indeed? Is this the Muslim style?
All of you desire to be invested with the crown,
You should first produce a heart worthy of renown.
The new age is the lighting blast, it will set your barns on fire,
It can`t produce in groves or deserts the Old Sinai`s burning spire.
The new fire consumes for fuel the blood of nations old,
The clothes of the Prophet`s race are incinerated in its folds.
Don`t be depressed, gardener, by the present scene,
The starry buds are about to burst with a brilliant sheen.
The garden will soon be rid of its thorns and weeds,
The martyr`s blood will bring to bloom all the dormant seeds.
Mark how the sky reflects its orange purple hues,
The rising sun will flush the sky with its rays anew.
Islamic tree exemplifies cultivation long and hard,
A fruit of arduous gardening over centuries past.
Your caravan needn`t fear the perils of the path,
But for the call of bells you own no wealth at all.
You are the plant of light, the burning wick that never fails,
With the power of your thought you can incinerate the veil.
We`ll love you as our own, if you follow the Prophet`s ways,
The world is but a paltry thing, you`ll command the pen and page.
#43 Posted by arstoo on April 12, 2006 7:51:40 pm
Ref[#1 by nasah on April 12, 2006 11:34am PT
Allama Iqbal was the Einstein of Islamofascism........
]
Dear Nasah
You are absolutly correct.
He was facist to the core. His symbol Ukaab ( Falcon) is facist. He takes pride in killing for the sake of killing. For example
Palatanaa, Jhapatanaa, Palat kar Jhapatana
Lahoo garm rakhnay ka sirf ik bahana.
Islam as a relegion is facist in nature because it takes in killing the kafirs. For example In Shikwa Iqbal says
Tu bata de ke ukhada dar-e-kahibar kisne,
Shahar Qaisar ka kiya sar kisne,
Today makhlook-e-khudavand ke paikar kisne,
Kaat ke rakh diye Kufaar ke lashkar kisne
Iqbal was fickle minded person who could not make up his mind. He had great difficulty in finding out what he stood for.
He began his poetic carrier with the poems like Shivaala, Sare Jahan se Acha etc. Then he turned arround and became facist and later he became an Islamist. Their is not much of a difference between an Islamist and a facist
Allama Iqbal was the Einstein of Islamofascism........
]
Dear Nasah
You are absolutly correct.
He was facist to the core. His symbol Ukaab ( Falcon) is facist. He takes pride in killing for the sake of killing. For example
Palatanaa, Jhapatanaa, Palat kar Jhapatana
Lahoo garm rakhnay ka sirf ik bahana.
Islam as a relegion is facist in nature because it takes in killing the kafirs. For example In Shikwa Iqbal says
Tu bata de ke ukhada dar-e-kahibar kisne,
Shahar Qaisar ka kiya sar kisne,
Today makhlook-e-khudavand ke paikar kisne,
Kaat ke rakh diye Kufaar ke lashkar kisne
Iqbal was fickle minded person who could not make up his mind. He had great difficulty in finding out what he stood for.
He began his poetic carrier with the poems like Shivaala, Sare Jahan se Acha etc. Then he turned arround and became facist and later he became an Islamist. Their is not much of a difference between an Islamist and a facist
#44 Posted by ZahraJ on April 12, 2006 8:44:15 pm
Kulharee has mentioned some sweet verses of Iqbal. It`s difficult for me to highlight my favorite ones, since I have grown up with the Kulyaatae`Iqbal. Iqbal`s refined vocabulary and expression form a beautiful combination. The sweetness of Bang`ae`Draa cannot be compared to anything else ever written in Urdu poetry. There are a few poems by late Hafeez Jalandhuri that are very close to my heart, but they fall in a different category. In any case, I love Naya Shavvala and find the following simply lovable and huggable.
~Shakti Bhee Shan`ti Bhee, Bhag`toan Kae Geet Main Hae`
Dharti Kae Baa`see`yon Kee, Mukti Preet Main Hae`
Some key favorites are:
1. Naheen Minna`t Kushae` Taa`bae Shunee`dan Daa`staan Meri
Kh`moshi Guftagoo Hae, Bae` Zubani Hae Zubaa`n Mae`ree
2. Agar Cha`hoon Toa Naqshaa` Kheench Kur Alfaa`z Main Rakh Doon
Magar Mae`rae Takha`yul Sae, Fazoon Tur Hae Voh Na`zaa`ra
3. Kyoun Zyaa`n Kaa`r Banoon Sood Fara`mosh Rahoon?
Fiqrae Fardaa` Naa Karoon, Mehvae` Ghamae` Dosh Rahoon
Na`lae Bulbul Kae Sunoon Aur Humaa` Tun Gosh Rahoon
Hum`navaa` Main Bhee Koi Gul Hoo`n Keh Khamo`sh Rahoon?
4. Such Kehdoon Aae` Brahman, Gur Too Buraa Naa Manae`
Tae`rae Sanam Kudoan Kae, But Ho Gayae Puranae`
5. Aae Ehlae` Nazar Zauqae` Nazar Khoob Hae Laiken
Jo Shae Kee Haqee`qat Ko Naa Dae`khae` Voh Nazar Kyaa.
#41 - Please consult the following links. In fact, there is a section devoted to Sarae` Jahan Sae Aacha Hindustan Humara and how Gandhi Jee used to recite it out of sheer patriotism when he was imprisoned.
Some interesting links on Iqbal`s background and poetry
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bang-i-Dara
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allama_Iqbal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saare_Jahan_Se_Achcha
~Shakti Bhee Shan`ti Bhee, Bhag`toan Kae Geet Main Hae`
Dharti Kae Baa`see`yon Kee, Mukti Preet Main Hae`
Some key favorites are:
1. Naheen Minna`t Kushae` Taa`bae Shunee`dan Daa`staan Meri
Kh`moshi Guftagoo Hae, Bae` Zubani Hae Zubaa`n Mae`ree
2. Agar Cha`hoon Toa Naqshaa` Kheench Kur Alfaa`z Main Rakh Doon
Magar Mae`rae Takha`yul Sae, Fazoon Tur Hae Voh Na`zaa`ra
3. Kyoun Zyaa`n Kaa`r Banoon Sood Fara`mosh Rahoon?
Fiqrae Fardaa` Naa Karoon, Mehvae` Ghamae` Dosh Rahoon
Na`lae Bulbul Kae Sunoon Aur Humaa` Tun Gosh Rahoon
Hum`navaa` Main Bhee Koi Gul Hoo`n Keh Khamo`sh Rahoon?
4. Such Kehdoon Aae` Brahman, Gur Too Buraa Naa Manae`
Tae`rae Sanam Kudoan Kae, But Ho Gayae Puranae`
5. Aae Ehlae` Nazar Zauqae` Nazar Khoob Hae Laiken
Jo Shae Kee Haqee`qat Ko Naa Dae`khae` Voh Nazar Kyaa.
#41 - Please consult the following links. In fact, there is a section devoted to Sarae` Jahan Sae Aacha Hindustan Humara and how Gandhi Jee used to recite it out of sheer patriotism when he was imprisoned.
Some interesting links on Iqbal`s background and poetry
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bang-i-Dara
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allama_Iqbal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saare_Jahan_Se_Achcha
#45 Posted by ZahraJ on April 12, 2006 8:46:54 pm
Saare Jahan Se Achcha
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The poem Saare Jahan Se Achcha was composed by the poet Sir Allama Muhammad Iqbal in 1904/1905 while India was under British administration. Iqbal was a lecturer at the Government College, Lahore at that time. He was invited by his favorite student Lala Hardayal to preside over a function. Instead of making a speech, Iqbal sang Saare Jahan Se Achcha with gusto. The poem is in praise of Hindustan and preaches harmony between people of separate religious beliefs. Ironically, Iqbal is also credited with being one of the earliest proponents for a separate nation-state in the Muslim majority areas of the sub-continent. One of the first formal articulations of this demand was made in his presidential address to the annual conference of the All India Muslim League in 1930 in Allahabad.
Set to tune by the sitar maestro, Pandit Ravi Shankar, the poem is sung by Indians on occasions of national importance and in schools as part of morning prayer. After the Indian National Anthem Jana-Gana-Mana and the Indian National Song Vande Mataram, Sare Jahan Se Achcha enjoys the reputation as the most popular patriotic song in India. Unlike Jana-Gana-Mana and Vande Mataram which are written in Sanskritized Bengali, Sare Jahan Se Achcha is written in Hindustani which is understood by a larger population in India.
The poem epitomises love for the nation and patriotism. Mahatma Gandhi sang it over a hundred times when he was imprisoned in Yerwada Jail in Pune in the 1930s. Astronaut Rakesh Sharma spoke the first line of the song to describe India from space when Indira Gandhi asked him how India looked from the Space. Manmohan Singh quoted it at his first press conference as Prime Minister to underline India`s greatness.
Lyrics
सारे जहाँ से अच्छा, हिन्दोस्तां हमारा
हम बुलबुले हैं इसकी, वो गुलसितां हमारा
गुरबत में हों अगर हम, रहता है दिल वतन में
समझो वहीं हमें भी, दिल हो जहाँ हमारा, सारे...
पर्वत हो सबसे ऊँचा, हमसाया आसमाँ का
वो संतरी हमारा, वो पासवां हमारा, सारे...
गोदी में खेलती हैं, जिसकी हज़ारों नदियां
गुलशन है जिसके दम से, रश्क -ए -जिनां हमारा
सारे....
ऐ आब -ए -रौंद -ए -गंगा! वो दिन है याद तुझको
उतरा तेरे किनारे, जब कारवां हमारा, सारे...
मजहब नहीं सिखाता, आपस में बैर रखना
हिन्दी हैं हम वतन हैं, हिन्दोस्तां हमारा, सारे...
यूनान, मिस्र, रोमां, सब मिट गए जहाँ से
अब तक मगर है बाकी, नाम -ओ -निशां हमारा,
सारे...
कुछ बात है की हस्ती, मिटती नहीं हमारी
सदियों रहा है दुश्मन, दौर -ए -जहाँ हमारा, सारे
`इक़बाल` कोई मरहूम, अपना नहीं जहाँ में
मालूम क्या किसी को, दर्द -ए -निहां हमारा, सारे
Transliteration
A simple English transliteration of the poem is
saare jahaan se achcha hindostaan hamaraa
hum bul bulain hai is kee, ye gulsitan hamaraa
gurbat mein hon agar ham, rahta hai dil watan mein
samjho vahin hame bhi, dil hain jahan hamara
parbat vo sabse unchaa hum saaya aasma kaa
vo santaree hamaraa, vo paasbaan hamaraa
godee mein khel tee hain is kee hazaaron nadiya
gulshan hai jinke dum se, rashke janna hamaraa
aye aab, aye raud, aye ganga, wo din he yaad tujhko
utaraa tere kinaare, jab kaarvan hamaara
mazhab nahee sikhataa apas mein bayr rakhnaa
hindee hai hum, vatan hai hindostaan hamaraa
yunan misr romaa, sab mit gaye jahan se
ab tak magar he baaki, namo nishan hamaara
kuchh baat he ki hasti, mitati nahi hamaari
sadiyon raha he dushman, daure jahan hamaara
iqbal koi marhoom, apna nahi jahan main
maloom kya kisi ko, darde niha hamaara
Translation
Our India is the finest Country on this planet earth
This is our garden abode, we are nightingales of mirth
Though in foreign lands we may reside, with our motherland our hearts abide
Our spirit remains with thee, where our hearts exist
That mountain most high; neighbor to the skies
It is our sentinel; it is our protector
A thousand rivers play in its lap,
Gardens they sustain, the envy of the heavens is ours
O water of the mighty flow of the Ganga, do you remember the day
When on your banks, our caravan had landed
Faith does not teach us to harbour grudges between us
We are all Indians and India is our homeland
Ancient Greece, Egypt and Rome are lost, now only memories
But our civilization remains; it has stood the test of time
Something is in us, that preserves us, that keeps us ever-smiling
Though the fates and chances of the world have ever tried to break us
Iqbal! Is there no soul that could
Understand the pain in thy heart?
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The poem Saare Jahan Se Achcha was composed by the poet Sir Allama Muhammad Iqbal in 1904/1905 while India was under British administration. Iqbal was a lecturer at the Government College, Lahore at that time. He was invited by his favorite student Lala Hardayal to preside over a function. Instead of making a speech, Iqbal sang Saare Jahan Se Achcha with gusto. The poem is in praise of Hindustan and preaches harmony between people of separate religious beliefs. Ironically, Iqbal is also credited with being one of the earliest proponents for a separate nation-state in the Muslim majority areas of the sub-continent. One of the first formal articulations of this demand was made in his presidential address to the annual conference of the All India Muslim League in 1930 in Allahabad.
Set to tune by the sitar maestro, Pandit Ravi Shankar, the poem is sung by Indians on occasions of national importance and in schools as part of morning prayer. After the Indian National Anthem Jana-Gana-Mana and the Indian National Song Vande Mataram, Sare Jahan Se Achcha enjoys the reputation as the most popular patriotic song in India. Unlike Jana-Gana-Mana and Vande Mataram which are written in Sanskritized Bengali, Sare Jahan Se Achcha is written in Hindustani which is understood by a larger population in India.
The poem epitomises love for the nation and patriotism. Mahatma Gandhi sang it over a hundred times when he was imprisoned in Yerwada Jail in Pune in the 1930s. Astronaut Rakesh Sharma spoke the first line of the song to describe India from space when Indira Gandhi asked him how India looked from the Space. Manmohan Singh quoted it at his first press conference as Prime Minister to underline India`s greatness.
Lyrics
सारे जहाँ से अच्छा, हिन्दोस्तां हमारा
हम बुलबुले हैं इसकी, वो गुलसितां हमारा
गुरबत में हों अगर हम, रहता है दिल वतन में
समझो वहीं हमें भी, दिल हो जहाँ हमारा, सारे...
पर्वत हो सबसे ऊँचा, हमसाया आसमाँ का
वो संतरी हमारा, वो पासवां हमारा, सारे...
गोदी में खेलती हैं, जिसकी हज़ारों नदियां
गुलशन है जिसके दम से, रश्क -ए -जिनां हमारा
सारे....
ऐ आब -ए -रौंद -ए -गंगा! वो दिन है याद तुझको
उतरा तेरे किनारे, जब कारवां हमारा, सारे...
मजहब नहीं सिखाता, आपस में बैर रखना
हिन्दी हैं हम वतन हैं, हिन्दोस्तां हमारा, सारे...
यूनान, मिस्र, रोमां, सब मिट गए जहाँ से
अब तक मगर है बाकी, नाम -ओ -निशां हमारा,
सारे...
कुछ बात है की हस्ती, मिटती नहीं हमारी
सदियों रहा है दुश्मन, दौर -ए -जहाँ हमारा, सारे
`इक़बाल` कोई मरहूम, अपना नहीं जहाँ में
मालूम क्या किसी को, दर्द -ए -निहां हमारा, सारे
Transliteration
A simple English transliteration of the poem is
saare jahaan se achcha hindostaan hamaraa
hum bul bulain hai is kee, ye gulsitan hamaraa
gurbat mein hon agar ham, rahta hai dil watan mein
samjho vahin hame bhi, dil hain jahan hamara
parbat vo sabse unchaa hum saaya aasma kaa
vo santaree hamaraa, vo paasbaan hamaraa
godee mein khel tee hain is kee hazaaron nadiya
gulshan hai jinke dum se, rashke janna hamaraa
aye aab, aye raud, aye ganga, wo din he yaad tujhko
utaraa tere kinaare, jab kaarvan hamaara
mazhab nahee sikhataa apas mein bayr rakhnaa
hindee hai hum, vatan hai hindostaan hamaraa
yunan misr romaa, sab mit gaye jahan se
ab tak magar he baaki, namo nishan hamaara
kuchh baat he ki hasti, mitati nahi hamaari
sadiyon raha he dushman, daure jahan hamaara
iqbal koi marhoom, apna nahi jahan main
maloom kya kisi ko, darde niha hamaara
Translation
Our India is the finest Country on this planet earth
This is our garden abode, we are nightingales of mirth
Though in foreign lands we may reside, with our motherland our hearts abide
Our spirit remains with thee, where our hearts exist
That mountain most high; neighbor to the skies
It is our sentinel; it is our protector
A thousand rivers play in its lap,
Gardens they sustain, the envy of the heavens is ours
O water of the mighty flow of the Ganga, do you remember the day
When on your banks, our caravan had landed
Faith does not teach us to harbour grudges between us
We are all Indians and India is our homeland
Ancient Greece, Egypt and Rome are lost, now only memories
But our civilization remains; it has stood the test of time
Something is in us, that preserves us, that keeps us ever-smiling
Though the fates and chances of the world have ever tried to break us
Iqbal! Is there no soul that could
Understand the pain in thy heart?
#46 Posted by Zeena on April 12, 2006 9:05:54 pm
Dear writer
Yes, you successfully tried to remind us about Allama Iqbal, a great philosopher, genius soul with revolutionary poetry to give a wake up call to all Muslims. Yes, Man was indeed spiritual genius of the century.
Allama Iqbal is incomplete with out his unique,`` SHAHEEN``,(Eagle). Main theme of all his poetry encircles around , Shaheen and murd-e-Momin( a man in motion with ego).His philosophy of khudi or ego is not about arrogance or vanity,but is about self awareness, self assertion and self realization. Khudi is an electric impulse in his murd-e-momin with depth which makes him on constant move.
Allama Iqbal, symbolized Shaheen/Eagle for courage, self respect, purity of soul, devotion, dedication, strong character, endurance, self control, self reliance, prestige which he sees in his murd-e-momin. He emphasised for his man and eagle to reach infinity where sky is not the limit and where depths of the sea are not the destiny . He wishes his murd-e-momin and eagle to conquer time and space which he regards as dust in his feet. Allama Iqbal`s mard-e-momin is a proud human with height of dignity.
Yes, sir, Allama Iqbal was the greatest poet of all the times............No doubt about it.
Now, look at the other side of the coin or other side of the exact picture............................
Which most of the people are unaware of or even if, they are aware of they either hide it or don`t want to admit it, b/c somehow it is embarrassing to pin point this big fact of the history.
Our great poet and genius Allama Iqbal`s poetry is copy of khushal khan khatak`s poetry.Iqbal read Khushal Khan Khattak`s poetry`s German translations and copied them word by word in Urdu, when he was a student in Germany.And, then he presented those Khushal baba`s poems as his own. Khushal Khan Baba never got that much projection and recognition and this man, called GREAT POET ALLAMA IQBAL , who wrote the whole theme of khushal khan khattak`s poetry fooled all people all of the time and never admitted what he did in his prime days, except at the end he did admit what he did in the beginning,he admitted who was the original source of all his poetry and that man was Khushal Khan Khattak.........................
Just have one glimpse ..................
Iqbal was mainly influenced by Khushal baba`s poetry,`` Muhabbat mujhe un jawano se he, sitaro pe jo dalthe hain kamand,``
Khushal Khan Khattak originally said,``
``Za da hagha shazalmo zine zaregam
Che ranisee da asmaan stoori pa las
Iqbal, studied khushal Khan`s poetry `s English and Persian translations and then adopted Khan baba`s main theme which was Khan Baba`s SHAHEEN / EAGLE and which Khushal Khan Khattak symbolized as His murd-e-momin (man of action). Iqbal`s poetry`s whole concept is based on Khan baba`s ideology.
Khushal Khan Khattak was a genius poet, warrior and scholar with multi dimensional personality, who fought for the honour of his nation till the end and never surrendered , he used to say, `` I girded my sword for the Nang `honour` of Pakhtoons. I am the bravest of men `Khushhal Khan Khattak` of my age.``
Khushal Khan Khattak was a versatile genius with the main theme of self identity and a national pride. Khan Baba`s poetry was matchless. Iqbal couldn`t come close to Khan baba`s gigantic personality with multiple dynamics. Khan Baba was the sun who gave his light to Iqbal and Iqbal succeeded in spreading Khan Baba`s light among common people.
At one point,at the end of Allama Iqbal`s life, Allama admitted with little reluctance that Khan Baba`s poetry and personality was the main inspiration for Allama`s ideology. He called Khan Baba as a versatile genius with poetry, philosophy, ethics, medicine with simplicity and directness of expression with out any wickedness and with love of freedom just like Allama Iqbal.....................
The only flaw I see in Allama`s personality is he should have accepted Khushal Khan Khattak as His mentor/hero right from the beginning. Why it took him all his life to admit the reality?
From Khushal Khan Khattak`s biography and Allama Iqbal`s poetry.
Yes, you successfully tried to remind us about Allama Iqbal, a great philosopher, genius soul with revolutionary poetry to give a wake up call to all Muslims. Yes, Man was indeed spiritual genius of the century.
Allama Iqbal is incomplete with out his unique,`` SHAHEEN``,(Eagle). Main theme of all his poetry encircles around , Shaheen and murd-e-Momin( a man in motion with ego).His philosophy of khudi or ego is not about arrogance or vanity,but is about self awareness, self assertion and self realization. Khudi is an electric impulse in his murd-e-momin with depth which makes him on constant move.
Allama Iqbal, symbolized Shaheen/Eagle for courage, self respect, purity of soul, devotion, dedication, strong character, endurance, self control, self reliance, prestige which he sees in his murd-e-momin. He emphasised for his man and eagle to reach infinity where sky is not the limit and where depths of the sea are not the destiny . He wishes his murd-e-momin and eagle to conquer time and space which he regards as dust in his feet. Allama Iqbal`s mard-e-momin is a proud human with height of dignity.
Yes, sir, Allama Iqbal was the greatest poet of all the times............No doubt about it.
Now, look at the other side of the coin or other side of the exact picture............................
Which most of the people are unaware of or even if, they are aware of they either hide it or don`t want to admit it, b/c somehow it is embarrassing to pin point this big fact of the history.
Our great poet and genius Allama Iqbal`s poetry is copy of khushal khan khatak`s poetry.Iqbal read Khushal Khan Khattak`s poetry`s German translations and copied them word by word in Urdu, when he was a student in Germany.And, then he presented those Khushal baba`s poems as his own. Khushal Khan Baba never got that much projection and recognition and this man, called GREAT POET ALLAMA IQBAL , who wrote the whole theme of khushal khan khattak`s poetry fooled all people all of the time and never admitted what he did in his prime days, except at the end he did admit what he did in the beginning,he admitted who was the original source of all his poetry and that man was Khushal Khan Khattak.........................
Just have one glimpse ..................
Iqbal was mainly influenced by Khushal baba`s poetry,`` Muhabbat mujhe un jawano se he, sitaro pe jo dalthe hain kamand,``
Khushal Khan Khattak originally said,``
``Za da hagha shazalmo zine zaregam
Che ranisee da asmaan stoori pa las
Iqbal, studied khushal Khan`s poetry `s English and Persian translations and then adopted Khan baba`s main theme which was Khan Baba`s SHAHEEN / EAGLE and which Khushal Khan Khattak symbolized as His murd-e-momin (man of action). Iqbal`s poetry`s whole concept is based on Khan baba`s ideology.
Khushal Khan Khattak was a genius poet, warrior and scholar with multi dimensional personality, who fought for the honour of his nation till the end and never surrendered , he used to say, `` I girded my sword for the Nang `honour` of Pakhtoons. I am the bravest of men `Khushhal Khan Khattak` of my age.``
Khushal Khan Khattak was a versatile genius with the main theme of self identity and a national pride. Khan Baba`s poetry was matchless. Iqbal couldn`t come close to Khan baba`s gigantic personality with multiple dynamics. Khan Baba was the sun who gave his light to Iqbal and Iqbal succeeded in spreading Khan Baba`s light among common people.
At one point,at the end of Allama Iqbal`s life, Allama admitted with little reluctance that Khan Baba`s poetry and personality was the main inspiration for Allama`s ideology. He called Khan Baba as a versatile genius with poetry, philosophy, ethics, medicine with simplicity and directness of expression with out any wickedness and with love of freedom just like Allama Iqbal.....................
The only flaw I see in Allama`s personality is he should have accepted Khushal Khan Khattak as His mentor/hero right from the beginning. Why it took him all his life to admit the reality?
From Khushal Khan Khattak`s biography and Allama Iqbal`s poetry.
#47 Posted by Zeena on April 12, 2006 9:11:59 pm
On side note:- Khushal Khan Khattak was the SUN with light radiance , glowing luminosity, luster and brilliance . Allama Iqbal was merely the moon revolving around the sun and illuminating his soul with Khan Baba`s light.
#48 Posted by majumdar on April 12, 2006 9:42:48 pm
Inquirer sahib,
``However, Jinnah just out of the bitternes that Gandhi ji had displaced him as a Congress leader became vindictive, obsessed and did things that would denigrate him in History. He probably joined in the underhanded conspiracy with the British to drag down the resurgent India. Gandhi ji, on the other hand, rose to far greater heights. ``
Wait till Manto reads this. Then there will be hell to pay.
``He upheld the right of the secessionist Muslims for the part of Indian treasury. He even protected them in Noakhali at the moment of glory on August 15, 1947. ``
I think you have got it a bit wrong. he protected Muslims in Calcutta in 1946 and minority EB Hindus in Noakhali in 1947.
Regards
``However, Jinnah just out of the bitternes that Gandhi ji had displaced him as a Congress leader became vindictive, obsessed and did things that would denigrate him in History. He probably joined in the underhanded conspiracy with the British to drag down the resurgent India. Gandhi ji, on the other hand, rose to far greater heights. ``
Wait till Manto reads this. Then there will be hell to pay.
``He upheld the right of the secessionist Muslims for the part of Indian treasury. He even protected them in Noakhali at the moment of glory on August 15, 1947. ``
I think you have got it a bit wrong. he protected Muslims in Calcutta in 1946 and minority EB Hindus in Noakhali in 1947.
Regards
#49 Posted by majumdar on April 12, 2006 9:53:05 pm
Kamatji,
Shireen Mazari is fantastic. I think all her writings should be compiled into a book. It would easily win the Booker Award for Best Fiction /Comedy Writing.
Regards
Shireen Mazari is fantastic. I think all her writings should be compiled into a book. It would easily win the Booker Award for Best Fiction /Comedy Writing.
Regards
#50 Posted by Zeena on April 12, 2006 10:03:13 pm
I salute Khushal Khan Khattak for being the original source of Allama Iqbal`s poetry, Shaheen and murd-e-momin.
Khushal Khan Khattak was the sea and Allama Iqbal was merely a tributary..............
Khushal Khan Khattak was the sea and Allama Iqbal was merely a tributary..............
#51 Posted by arstoo on April 12, 2006 11:24:45 pm
Iqbal`s conflicting thought process is hall mark of his life.
At one point he says
Hindi hain ham-watan hain, Hinodstan hamara
AT other place he praises the destructive and facist nature of his symbol Falcon by claiming
Parindo ki duniya ka darvesh hun mein,
ki Shahin banata, nahi ashiyana
Because falcon kills other birds and live in their nests.
Then he takes a turn toward relegion and instigates the Muslims by saying
Rahe ga ravi-o-nile-o-ufraat mein kab tak,
Tera safina to hai, bahar-e-bekraan ke liye.
or
youn to sayyad bhi ho, mirza bhi ho, afghan bhi ho
tum sabhi kuch ho mgaar musalmann bhi ho
His poem shikwa and jawab-e-shikwa are example of Islamic victimhood and muslims not following the islam properly. These are the two train of thought which are taken by every Islamic fundmentalist and in that sense Iqbal was one.
He openly takes the side of destruction instead of rebuilding without analysing the cause of the problem when he says
Jis khet se, dahkan ko mayyassar na ho roti
Us khet ke har khosh-e-gandum ko jala do
But in the same poem he presents a very positive thohgt when he say
Sultan-e-jamhoori ka aataa hai zamaana.
Jo nakh-e-kuhan ayae nazar tum ko, mitta do
Then at other place he take introspective relegious view like his Hindu ancestors and says
Khuda ke banday hain hazaron, bano me firatay hain maaray maaray,
Mein khuda ka banda banu ga, jisko khuda ke bando se pyaar ho ga
Above univarsal human love is only found in Hinduism with the concept of Vasudev Kutumbkam ( Universal Family), it does not distinguish the people based on their relegion.
My favourite of Iqbal couplet are
Mah-o-khrsheed-o-anjum doratay hain saath saath iske,
Falaq kaya hai, kisi Mashook-e-beparvah ki toli hai.
or
Aagosh mein zami ke, soya hua ho sabza
Phir phir ke zhariyon mein paan chamak raha ho
Paani ko choo rahi ho, jhuk jhuk ke gul ki tahni
Jaise haseen koyi, aeena dekhta ho
At one point he says
Hindi hain ham-watan hain, Hinodstan hamara
AT other place he praises the destructive and facist nature of his symbol Falcon by claiming
Parindo ki duniya ka darvesh hun mein,
ki Shahin banata, nahi ashiyana
Because falcon kills other birds and live in their nests.
Then he takes a turn toward relegion and instigates the Muslims by saying
Rahe ga ravi-o-nile-o-ufraat mein kab tak,
Tera safina to hai, bahar-e-bekraan ke liye.
or
youn to sayyad bhi ho, mirza bhi ho, afghan bhi ho
tum sabhi kuch ho mgaar musalmann bhi ho
His poem shikwa and jawab-e-shikwa are example of Islamic victimhood and muslims not following the islam properly. These are the two train of thought which are taken by every Islamic fundmentalist and in that sense Iqbal was one.
He openly takes the side of destruction instead of rebuilding without analysing the cause of the problem when he says
Jis khet se, dahkan ko mayyassar na ho roti
Us khet ke har khosh-e-gandum ko jala do
But in the same poem he presents a very positive thohgt when he say
Sultan-e-jamhoori ka aataa hai zamaana.
Jo nakh-e-kuhan ayae nazar tum ko, mitta do
Then at other place he take introspective relegious view like his Hindu ancestors and says
Khuda ke banday hain hazaron, bano me firatay hain maaray maaray,
Mein khuda ka banda banu ga, jisko khuda ke bando se pyaar ho ga
Above univarsal human love is only found in Hinduism with the concept of Vasudev Kutumbkam ( Universal Family), it does not distinguish the people based on their relegion.
My favourite of Iqbal couplet are
Mah-o-khrsheed-o-anjum doratay hain saath saath iske,
Falaq kaya hai, kisi Mashook-e-beparvah ki toli hai.
or
Aagosh mein zami ke, soya hua ho sabza
Phir phir ke zhariyon mein paan chamak raha ho
Paani ko choo rahi ho, jhuk jhuk ke gul ki tahni
Jaise haseen koyi, aeena dekhta ho
#52 Posted by arstoo on April 12, 2006 11:28:23 pm
Ref#51
The line
tum sabhi kuch ho mgaar musalmann bhi ho
should be
tum sabhi kuch fo, batao ke musalmaan bhi ho
The line
tum sabhi kuch ho mgaar musalmann bhi ho
should be
tum sabhi kuch fo, batao ke musalmaan bhi ho
#53 Posted by zeemax on April 13, 2006 2:40:11 am
#50 by Zeena: Khushal Khan Khattak was the sea and Allama Iqbal was merely a tributary..............
AND
#46 by Zeena : Yes, sir, Allama Iqbal was the greatest poet of all the times............No doubt about it.
Huh? Are both these statements your ZeenaJi? Please clarify.
Actually I think Iqbal was the sea and everyone else was and is still just standing on the shores.
AND
#46 by Zeena : Yes, sir, Allama Iqbal was the greatest poet of all the times............No doubt about it.
Huh? Are both these statements your ZeenaJi? Please clarify.
Actually I think Iqbal was the sea and everyone else was and is still just standing on the shores.
#54 Posted by Sanatani on April 13, 2006 3:23:41 am
Re: # 36
I had called you a Social Science ka compartment, apparently I was wrong. Even if you would have got zero in both Geography and Civics you would have got 40/40 in History for regurgitating the commie rubbish that was taught in your answer paper and thus passed.
Try and look up independent sources of History, before posting such rubbish here. Read how Mokalsar became Faridkot.
No Regards
Sanatni
P.S. Koi bangali JNU type girlfriend avashy rahi hogi tumhare jeevan mai.
I had called you a Social Science ka compartment, apparently I was wrong. Even if you would have got zero in both Geography and Civics you would have got 40/40 in History for regurgitating the commie rubbish that was taught in your answer paper and thus passed.
Try and look up independent sources of History, before posting such rubbish here. Read how Mokalsar became Faridkot.
No Regards
Sanatni
P.S. Koi bangali JNU type girlfriend avashy rahi hogi tumhare jeevan mai.
#55 Posted by zeemax on April 13, 2006 3:35:02 am
Some interactors have pointed out many valid contradictions in Iqbal`s thought process. In fact these are merely transitions in his thought which culminated in his Shaheen and `Mard-e-Momin concepts. Iqbal in his early days was just a poet and not a philosopher when he wrote ``saare jahaan se achcha hindostaan hamaraa``. But a philosopher when he wrote ``Khudi ko kar buland itna key har taqdeer sey pehley, Khuda bundey sey khud poochhey, bata teri raza kya hai?``
Iqbal went through a major transition when he was exposed to the German existantialist philosophy during his sojourn in Hiedelberg where he adopted the `aubermunsch` philosophy, while later, he went through a further transformation during his time in Cordoba, and that defined and solidified his views forever; culminating in his synthesis of all those influences in his Khudi, Shaheen and `Mard-e-Momin symbolism.
Iqbal was not a fundamentlist Muslim. Quite far from it. In fact his idea of `Musalmaan` and `Momin` was quite different from the traditional meaning. Firstly, he rejected all rituals openly for which he is still branded as `kafir` by many. He wrote many derogatory couplets about maulvis or `sheikhs` as he called them. His idea of `Mard-e-Momin` was when he says ``Dasht to Dasht, Sehra Bhee Na Chorey Ham Nei; Behr-e-Zulmat Mein Dora Diey Ghorey Ham Nei.``In this verse he is referring to the Battle Of Namaraq in 634 AD against the Persians and the Muslim commander Abu Ubaid. Iqbal wrote many poems in quite graphic detail about specific incidents in many battles during Caliph Umar`s time.
Stll he was not a practising Muslim. No Wahabi or Deobandi or Shia or whomever would write anything like ``Jo Mein Sar Basajda Hua Kabhi, To Zameen Sey Yeh Aaney Lagi Sada; Tera Dil Jo Hai Sanam Aashna, Tujhe Kya Mile Gaa Namaz Mein.``
Iqbal was a ``Deist``, rather than a `Theist``.
Quite interestingly, Iqbal`s thoughts are more acknowledged and practiced in Iran than in Pakistan. Ali Shariety`s reverence for Iqbal is common knowledge.
Iqbal went through a major transition when he was exposed to the German existantialist philosophy during his sojourn in Hiedelberg where he adopted the `aubermunsch` philosophy, while later, he went through a further transformation during his time in Cordoba, and that defined and solidified his views forever; culminating in his synthesis of all those influences in his Khudi, Shaheen and `Mard-e-Momin symbolism.
Iqbal was not a fundamentlist Muslim. Quite far from it. In fact his idea of `Musalmaan` and `Momin` was quite different from the traditional meaning. Firstly, he rejected all rituals openly for which he is still branded as `kafir` by many. He wrote many derogatory couplets about maulvis or `sheikhs` as he called them. His idea of `Mard-e-Momin` was when he says ``Dasht to Dasht, Sehra Bhee Na Chorey Ham Nei; Behr-e-Zulmat Mein Dora Diey Ghorey Ham Nei.``In this verse he is referring to the Battle Of Namaraq in 634 AD against the Persians and the Muslim commander Abu Ubaid. Iqbal wrote many poems in quite graphic detail about specific incidents in many battles during Caliph Umar`s time.
Stll he was not a practising Muslim. No Wahabi or Deobandi or Shia or whomever would write anything like ``Jo Mein Sar Basajda Hua Kabhi, To Zameen Sey Yeh Aaney Lagi Sada; Tera Dil Jo Hai Sanam Aashna, Tujhe Kya Mile Gaa Namaz Mein.``
Iqbal was a ``Deist``, rather than a `Theist``.
Quite interestingly, Iqbal`s thoughts are more acknowledged and practiced in Iran than in Pakistan. Ali Shariety`s reverence for Iqbal is common knowledge.
#56 Posted by Ranjit on April 13, 2006 3:38:28 am
Thank Iqbal and Jinnah for creating a paradise for muslims, or should we say an absolute nightmare? Muslims killing muslims during prayers with plastic explosives and ball-bearings in bombs. Religious leaders, innocent people and even children dying and all of them muslims!! What a shame!! So much for ``escaping`` hindu domination and killing 6 million innocent people in 1947 to create this nightmare country.
While the Pakis are blowing each other up in parks at Eid time, here is an article from Dawn about how Americans are moving to India and working there. Eat your hearts out, Pakis!!
http://www.dawn.com/2006/04/13/fea.htm
#57 Posted by wasif2 on April 13, 2006 4:52:50 am
When I was younger, I fiercely argued that Iqbal was all bull shit. That may largely have been a reaction to the over dose of Iqbal that we as kids had to endure comprising in false statements like ``he was an ideal momin`` (he was no such thing...contrary to what the writer of this piece asserts). I offer no comments on his ``person`` or his ``philosophy`` but I cannot resist admitting that even though it is second nature with me to be suspicious of all things muslim (and hence ``Iqbal``), to me his poetry is that rare gift that God has bestowed upon only a handful in all history (and only God knows why...there is hardly ever an apparent reason).
Rang ho ya khisht o sang, changg ho ya harf o saut
Moajza e fann ki hai khoon e jigar say namood !
#58 Posted by zeemax on April 13, 2006 5:00:07 am
Iqbal`s mindset is very clear in this verse:
Bey Khatar Kood Para Aatish-e-Namrood Mein Ishq;
Aq`l Khari Hai Mahv`e Tamasha-e-Lab`e`Baam Abhi.
Iqbal was clearly `Jehadi`.
Thanks.
Bey Khatar Kood Para Aatish-e-Namrood Mein Ishq;
Aq`l Khari Hai Mahv`e Tamasha-e-Lab`e`Baam Abhi.
Iqbal was clearly `Jehadi`.
Thanks.
#59 Posted by bjkumar on April 13, 2006 5:17:21 am
Dear Farzana,
Normally, poets ought to be exempt from criticism. The problem I see with poets like Iqbal is that one can not espouse the idea that being a Muslim raises one to lofty heights - making such individuals the greatest thing since aalu-batora - AND sing the praises of ``universalism`` at the same time.
This whole ``ummah`` thing is an artificial construct and everyone here knows that quite well.
But there is no shortage of writers (like you) who keep pushing it with greater frequency than pimps keep pushing paan!
By the way, when you so smoothly fork over such terms as Jinnah`s ``sacrifices`` - would you care to elaborate what those were? For example, how many days in the jail did that character put in? Or is that simply an article of faith with the such writers as you?
It is highly unfortunate that a lot of that mindset of exclusivity remains - especially among the writers here on chowk - and it keeps getting actively promoted - apparently by people with an agenda.
Some writers appear SO stuck on the past of their community - as if they have zero ability to deal with the present.
#60 Posted by Inquirer on April 13, 2006 5:26:16 am
Re: # 34, freethinker:
Thanks for raising the standard of comments from trivial to enjoyable.
Thanks for raising the standard of comments from trivial to enjoyable.
#61 Posted by zeemax on April 13, 2006 5:26:24 am
#59 by bjkumar
....This whole ``ummah`` thing is an artificial construct and everyone here knows that quite well.....
BeeJay Bhai, Ummah is in the hearts, not in boundaries. I agree that everyone knows quite well about `that`.
....This whole ``ummah`` thing is an artificial construct and everyone here knows that quite well.....
BeeJay Bhai, Ummah is in the hearts, not in boundaries. I agree that everyone knows quite well about `that`.
#63 Posted by jang on April 13, 2006 6:11:53 am
Iqbal reminds me of somewhat of Savarkar..similar ``nationalistic, martial`` poetry and prose, inspiration for Hindu Mahasabha. Savarkar was more action oriented and deemed dangerous by the british faced the worst jail available. This was because the brits figured that he can potentially inspire the masses. iqbal was more of an inspiration for the mulsim bourgoise.
#64 Posted by KaalChakra on April 13, 2006 6:39:20 am
By any measure, Iqbal was the most exalted poet and philosopher of modern Jihadism. No Jihadi writer or thinker can fail to pay the man proper tribute. His services to the Ummah were immeasurable.
The great thing about Ummah is that it simultaneously exists and does not exist, in ways that are most favorble to it.
The great thing about Ummah is that it simultaneously exists and does not exist, in ways that are most favorble to it.
#65 Posted by Inquirer on April 13, 2006 6:47:07 am
What is the definition of ummah? I thought it meant same thing as Mullah.
#66 Posted by bjkumar on April 13, 2006 7:29:45 am
#64 by kaalchakra
[No Jihadi writer or thinker can fail to pay the man proper tribute.]
Kaal, I would not go so far as saying that this writer promotes the Jihadi line of thinking as currently understood by the non-Muslim world (the Muslim world is less clear-cut in its understanding of the term) – perhaps she is a simply misguided soul brought up on a staple diet of that green brew in its mildest form – which only puts the slightest of green tints on all that it sees!
Perhaps a classical case of “saawan ka andhaa” – for whom the world freezes permanently in its glorious green color – all other colors that constitute stark reality can go to the trash can!
I suppose one can be kind to this writer and say that it is one thing to attempt to cover stuff up by being wishy-washy as distinct from a clear acknowledgment of an inherent desire to pick up guns for the “cause”. (Yes, the latter has been done here on chowk, too – and by far higher profile individuals than no-namers of this writer’s variety!)
You see, as in every walk of life – it is a lot easier to promote the most outrageous of thoughts – as long as SOMEBODY ELSE has to pay the price. (I wonder if such writers have to worry about trivial, mundane tasks – like paying own bills.)
That went for Jinnah and that went for Iqbal!
Politicians who practice such fine craft are called demagogues. I do not know what the term for writers is. Perhaps there ought to be one.
For now, I am tempted to call them “chowk writers” but that would be unfair to a FEW writers.
#67 Posted by bjkumar on April 13, 2006 7:38:35 am
#65 by Inquirer
[What is the definition of ummah? I thought it meant same thing as Mullah.]
It is perhaps more akin to “moolah”!
#68 Posted by kaurasach on April 13, 2006 8:14:54 am
``Na Baat Kahoon main ab ki
Na baast kahoon main tab ki
Agar Na hotay Guru Gobind Singh
Tau Sunat hoti Sab ki``
Iqbal
Na baast kahoon main tab ki
Agar Na hotay Guru Gobind Singh
Tau Sunat hoti Sab ki``
Iqbal
#69 Posted by pmishra2 on April 13, 2006 8:23:15 am
#63 jang
100% agree with you. Like Sarvarkar, Iqbal`s later outputs combine religious exceptionalism and fanaticism with vague universal statements. The overall result is to suggest that islamofascism has something to do with universal human rights or some such crazy belief.
As I suggested in message #3 the violent conversion of Iqbal`s grandfather to islam is deeply relevant here. This type of cultural violence either results in excessive identification with the oppressor (Stockholm Syndrome) or in rejection. I think it is clear the direction Iqbal took.
100% agree with you. Like Sarvarkar, Iqbal`s later outputs combine religious exceptionalism and fanaticism with vague universal statements. The overall result is to suggest that islamofascism has something to do with universal human rights or some such crazy belief.
As I suggested in message #3 the violent conversion of Iqbal`s grandfather to islam is deeply relevant here. This type of cultural violence either results in excessive identification with the oppressor (Stockholm Syndrome) or in rejection. I think it is clear the direction Iqbal took.
#70 Posted by kaurasach on April 13, 2006 8:23:25 am
I found this post..........about Iqbal and Tagore on APNA
``.......Dr. Iqbal protested in a letter to him that he wrote his poetry in Farsi and Urdu because his mother tongue was not fully developed. Tegore Ji replied to Dr. Iqbal, ``Mine was not either but helped it to develop``............
``.......Dr. Iqbal protested in a letter to him that he wrote his poetry in Farsi and Urdu because his mother tongue was not fully developed. Tegore Ji replied to Dr. Iqbal, ``Mine was not either but helped it to develop``............
#71 Posted by bharath on April 13, 2006 10:23:55 am
Re: # 69by pmishra2 on April 13, 2006 8:23am PT
If any neutral person struggling to understand the ongoing conflict b/w
Islam and rest of the world, one needs to only visit this board.
The guy may be a good poet, he used words referring to tall
ideals for people practicing one religion, and then proposed that these
converted people should form a separate country.
A person living in muticultural, secular Canada (probably a Canadian citizen!)
is full of praise and uses lofty words glorifying the guy. Hello! One is awaiting
the birth of Iqbal in Ontorio
one can expect the birth of independence struggle for beautiful, humanistic,
Puki-Canadistan.
If any neutral person struggling to understand the ongoing conflict b/w
Islam and rest of the world, one needs to only visit this board.
The guy may be a good poet, he used words referring to tall
ideals for people practicing one religion, and then proposed that these
converted people should form a separate country.
A person living in muticultural, secular Canada (probably a Canadian citizen!)
is full of praise and uses lofty words glorifying the guy. Hello! One is awaiting
the birth of Iqbal in Ontorio
one can expect the birth of independence struggle for beautiful, humanistic,
Puki-Canadistan.
#72 Posted by ZahraJ on April 13, 2006 10:26:11 am
Re: # 58
When we talk about mindsets and philosophies, we cannot ignore the fact that many of these poets and thinkers had their own influences. A lot of them wrote and said, what they thought was right based on their own observations and views. Hopefully, the future generations will pick from Iqbal`s poetry what is applicable to them and ignore what they do not subscribe to. I wrote something on what I did not like in his poetry. The more I thought about it, the more I felt that it was unfair to compare his verses from early 1900s to the current issues of Ummah. So, I killed that passage. I must say that your conclusion lacks proper evidence. Sometimes, you need to appreciate a poetical expression as it is. You do not have to interpret things literally.
I found an interesting passage on Iqbal`s thought process -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allama_Iqbal
[Iqbal`s Thought
Amongst Western thinkers, Iqbal was deeply impressed by Friedrich Nietzsche. Some people have criticised him for endorsing Nietzsche`s concept of the Übermensch (superman), which is reflected in Iqbal`s own concept of ``the perfect man``. However, Iqbal asserted that his concept of the perfect man is influenced by Jami and Rumi. Bergson`s ideas regarding time also influenced Iqbal. He wrote Payam-i-Mashriq (The Message of the East) as a reply to Johann Wolfgang von Goethe`s West-östlicher Diwan. Amongst Eastern thinkers, Iqbal was influenced by Rumi, whom he called his spiritual guide. Iqbal also admired Mirza Ghalib`s poetic style.
Iqbal is one of the foremost modern Muslim philosophers. Major themes in his philosophy include creating an effective response to the intellectual challenge of the West, the revival of intellectual discourse in the Islamic world, and the concept of Khudi or selfness.]
Note: Did you really mean to highlight the gender of ``Aql`` in the second line?
When we talk about mindsets and philosophies, we cannot ignore the fact that many of these poets and thinkers had their own influences. A lot of them wrote and said, what they thought was right based on their own observations and views. Hopefully, the future generations will pick from Iqbal`s poetry what is applicable to them and ignore what they do not subscribe to. I wrote something on what I did not like in his poetry. The more I thought about it, the more I felt that it was unfair to compare his verses from early 1900s to the current issues of Ummah. So, I killed that passage. I must say that your conclusion lacks proper evidence. Sometimes, you need to appreciate a poetical expression as it is. You do not have to interpret things literally.
I found an interesting passage on Iqbal`s thought process -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allama_Iqbal
[Iqbal`s Thought
Amongst Western thinkers, Iqbal was deeply impressed by Friedrich Nietzsche. Some people have criticised him for endorsing Nietzsche`s concept of the Übermensch (superman), which is reflected in Iqbal`s own concept of ``the perfect man``. However, Iqbal asserted that his concept of the perfect man is influenced by Jami and Rumi. Bergson`s ideas regarding time also influenced Iqbal. He wrote Payam-i-Mashriq (The Message of the East) as a reply to Johann Wolfgang von Goethe`s West-östlicher Diwan. Amongst Eastern thinkers, Iqbal was influenced by Rumi, whom he called his spiritual guide. Iqbal also admired Mirza Ghalib`s poetic style.
Iqbal is one of the foremost modern Muslim philosophers. Major themes in his philosophy include creating an effective response to the intellectual challenge of the West, the revival of intellectual discourse in the Islamic world, and the concept of Khudi or selfness.]
Note: Did you really mean to highlight the gender of ``Aql`` in the second line?
#73 Posted by rsridhar on April 13, 2006 10:43:41 am
re:this article and Allama Iqbal
Author seems to glorify a poet who probably wrecked the hindu-muslim unity than anyone else and sowed the seed of discord between the 2 communities. He epitomised the Islamic belief that the concept of ummah transcends the concept of nationhood in the minds of muslims. If an average hindu in India today views an IM with suscpicion, it is because he suspects that the IM has more loyalty to the ummah than to the nation itself. The seeds of such doubts were sown by Iqbal himself.
Iqbal was the quintessential pan-islamist, if there was one. Like Jinnah, he got his Law degree from London and was impressed by the vitality of Europe but he also saw crass materialism that he saw would not be suitable for muslims. He was not secular like Jinnah but saw a multireligious society as an ideal that was difficult to achieve in India (he was so wrong!). His pan-islamism, love of his religion took him on a different path, a path that was followed by Jinnah after his death.
Iqbal started his life as a poet with ideals of hindu-muslim unity and yearned for a nation where the 2 communities could live in peace. His poems taraana-e-hindi and naya shivalay were such prayers. Soon he went on a different path, much like jinnah. Why?
Farzana bibi should have dissected that aspect of Iqbal`s psyche that was in constant state of turmoil. He was never sure what he was. One part of him loved India enough to pen the now famous ``tarana-e-hindi`` (``The song of India`` now immortalized in movies and sung by such legends as Rafi, Lata, Asha) while another part rebelled against India and Indians (hindus in particular) so much so that, in a strongly worded poem, he warns the majority community of an impending doom that will destroy India (or Hindustan as he called it) unless hindus changed their ways (he thought hindus were very arrogant).
There must have been this dichotomy in his mind, much like in the mind of Jinnah. Author would have done well to explore that aspect of the author.
Instead, Farzana chose to just eulogise Iqbal.
Allma Iqbal had many failings. He considered Rabindernath Tagore as his literary rival. The seeds of rivalry were sown even before partition. Muslims prided themselves for being physically superior and took pride in taking part in sports (hockey, wrestling being the main sport). When Tagore was awarded the Nobel prize, IMs felt betrayed that the same was not given to Iqbal. This must have rankled in Iqbal`s mind too.
As this article tells us, Iqbal was not your posterboy for secularism.
(Chaghtai (author of a book) tells us on the authority of Sir Abdul Qadir that Iqbal’s friends “persuaded him to follow Tagore for getting the Award, but it was not easy to convince him.” But it is also true, as Chaghtai tells us, that “Tagore’s Award had been hovering on his mind throughout his life, and he, directly or indirectly, could not free himself of this Award Complex.”
But in case of the title of knighthood, the admirers of Iqbal did not face the kind of frustration they had faced in case of the Nobel Prize. Tagore was honored with a knighthood in 1915. After a few years Iqbal, too, was honored with this title. But Ikram Chaghtai has marked a fine distinction between the attitudes of these two poets in respect of this title. Tagore raised his voice against the Amritsar massacre of 1919 and requested the Viceroy to be relieved of the title. The request was turned down, but he stuck to his request and did not use the title with his name after that. On the other hand, Iqbal, after being honored with a knighthood, never thought of returning it.
Chaghtai tells us that Tagore had managed to establish a center for Islamic research in Shanti Niketan, and that Khalifa Abdul Hakim had played a very important role in the establishment of this center. He had kept Iqbal informed about his role in this respect. A newly-converted Hungarian scholar, Abdul Karim Germanus, was appointed as its first chairman and he had the blessings of Iqbal for that.
Iqbal was happy at the establishment of the center and gave his blessings to Germanus on the occasion of his appointment as chairman of the center. But he was not happy at the enthusiastic reception Tagore got in Iran. Chaghtai has, in this connection, reproduced four letters of Iqbal addressed to the Iranian diplomat, Ghulam Abbas Aram. These letters, which have been dug out recently, speak of the suspicion Iqbal had in relation to Tagore’s visit to Iran.)
That is why, i feel intrigued when IMs (like Farzana bibi) also applaud him. If IMs today are struggling in every aspect in India, Allama Iqbal must be blamed. His poems, while of superb composition and literary merit, did do a lot to alienate the muslims from the hindus, something from which IMs have not yet recovered.
Sridhar
Author seems to glorify a poet who probably wrecked the hindu-muslim unity than anyone else and sowed the seed of discord between the 2 communities. He epitomised the Islamic belief that the concept of ummah transcends the concept of nationhood in the minds of muslims. If an average hindu in India today views an IM with suscpicion, it is because he suspects that the IM has more loyalty to the ummah than to the nation itself. The seeds of such doubts were sown by Iqbal himself.
Iqbal was the quintessential pan-islamist, if there was one. Like Jinnah, he got his Law degree from London and was impressed by the vitality of Europe but he also saw crass materialism that he saw would not be suitable for muslims. He was not secular like Jinnah but saw a multireligious society as an ideal that was difficult to achieve in India (he was so wrong!). His pan-islamism, love of his religion took him on a different path, a path that was followed by Jinnah after his death.
Iqbal started his life as a poet with ideals of hindu-muslim unity and yearned for a nation where the 2 communities could live in peace. His poems taraana-e-hindi and naya shivalay were such prayers. Soon he went on a different path, much like jinnah. Why?
Farzana bibi should have dissected that aspect of Iqbal`s psyche that was in constant state of turmoil. He was never sure what he was. One part of him loved India enough to pen the now famous ``tarana-e-hindi`` (``The song of India`` now immortalized in movies and sung by such legends as Rafi, Lata, Asha) while another part rebelled against India and Indians (hindus in particular) so much so that, in a strongly worded poem, he warns the majority community of an impending doom that will destroy India (or Hindustan as he called it) unless hindus changed their ways (he thought hindus were very arrogant).
There must have been this dichotomy in his mind, much like in the mind of Jinnah. Author would have done well to explore that aspect of the author.
Instead, Farzana chose to just eulogise Iqbal.
Allma Iqbal had many failings. He considered Rabindernath Tagore as his literary rival. The seeds of rivalry were sown even before partition. Muslims prided themselves for being physically superior and took pride in taking part in sports (hockey, wrestling being the main sport). When Tagore was awarded the Nobel prize, IMs felt betrayed that the same was not given to Iqbal. This must have rankled in Iqbal`s mind too.
As this article tells us, Iqbal was not your posterboy for secularism.
(Chaghtai (author of a book) tells us on the authority of Sir Abdul Qadir that Iqbal’s friends “persuaded him to follow Tagore for getting the Award, but it was not easy to convince him.” But it is also true, as Chaghtai tells us, that “Tagore’s Award had been hovering on his mind throughout his life, and he, directly or indirectly, could not free himself of this Award Complex.”
But in case of the title of knighthood, the admirers of Iqbal did not face the kind of frustration they had faced in case of the Nobel Prize. Tagore was honored with a knighthood in 1915. After a few years Iqbal, too, was honored with this title. But Ikram Chaghtai has marked a fine distinction between the attitudes of these two poets in respect of this title. Tagore raised his voice against the Amritsar massacre of 1919 and requested the Viceroy to be relieved of the title. The request was turned down, but he stuck to his request and did not use the title with his name after that. On the other hand, Iqbal, after being honored with a knighthood, never thought of returning it.
Chaghtai tells us that Tagore had managed to establish a center for Islamic research in Shanti Niketan, and that Khalifa Abdul Hakim had played a very important role in the establishment of this center. He had kept Iqbal informed about his role in this respect. A newly-converted Hungarian scholar, Abdul Karim Germanus, was appointed as its first chairman and he had the blessings of Iqbal for that.
Iqbal was happy at the establishment of the center and gave his blessings to Germanus on the occasion of his appointment as chairman of the center. But he was not happy at the enthusiastic reception Tagore got in Iran. Chaghtai has, in this connection, reproduced four letters of Iqbal addressed to the Iranian diplomat, Ghulam Abbas Aram. These letters, which have been dug out recently, speak of the suspicion Iqbal had in relation to Tagore’s visit to Iran.)
That is why, i feel intrigued when IMs (like Farzana bibi) also applaud him. If IMs today are struggling in every aspect in India, Allama Iqbal must be blamed. His poems, while of superb composition and literary merit, did do a lot to alienate the muslims from the hindus, something from which IMs have not yet recovered.
Sridhar
#74 Posted by pmishra2 on April 13, 2006 10:50:31 am
#73 rsridhar
Nice work. While no one is free from prejudice and arrogance, it is really important to expose people who pretend to be otherwise. As you
Nice work. While no one is free from prejudice and arrogance, it is really important to expose people who pretend to be otherwise. As you