Ahmadis – The Forgotten People

Sattar ,
theres a difference , I am not against Ahmedis ( individuals , people ) but against there beliefs - theres a difference , I don`t lie as most wannabes here kindly don`t misunderstand me - not being personal ...
cheers

@sattar,
Mirza Sahab is nor Mohammad (s.a.w) nor a Massiah kindly don`t compare him
with atleast the last prophet (s.a.w)
and my point is that Ahmedis or Qadyanism is not even a sect of Islam -
when Mohammad (s.a.w) said about 72 sects he meant about sects which
are Muslim - now somoene who claims that prophecy never ended is not a
Muslim - I repeat is not a Muslim & can not become one
It does not mean that any previous prophet is not alive. It simply means that if for the sake of argument all the previous prophets supposedly come in the world in the times of our Prophet Muhammad, (Sallallaho alaihe wassallam) and become his servants, even then our Prophet (Sallallaho alaihe wassallam) shall continue to be the last prophet since nobody has been awarded prophethood after him. With his arrival, the list of the holy prophets became complete. Hazrat Esa & Iman Mahdi , are two different individuals plus when we talk about there return we
do not contradict our belief of end of prophecy but these people will descend because according to us they never died & they will arrive without
the label of prophets or massiah(s) as prophecy has ended when Mohammad (s.a.w) died .
Although my memory is not that brilliant & one has to ask about all these religious beliefs from a proper Ulema but as far as I could
remember that Hazrat Imam Mehdi will take `bait` in Makkah or Madina from the believers & will fight first against his own faithful
who will refuse to acknowledge him in which he will succeeded ; Hazrat Esa will fight a war as well . There will be two wars according to
Dr.Israr Ahmed one against a `unidentified force` in which Muslims will help non-Muslims ( some say this has already happened 1992 , Gulf
War ) & the final war would be against Christians after that ( 40 years after that ) Soor will be on -
Hajood & Majood - two nations or set of population
Kara-Dajal - a devil like creature maybe a human with one eyes which will descend from sky on a donkey
@sattar bhai sahab, I am really not a hardcore one - I don`t even pray five times - & misses jumma ofcourse etc...

thank you zeena i just had to make sure of this..there tends to be a lot of judgement passed by humans whereas i know that the final judgement is in the hands (or feets or tentacles) of God alone.

based on parshuram here, i am sure ahmedis are polished, well mannered and can use language well ..salim is my witness.

#28 by jang on April 7, 2006 7:42am PT


{{{``Ahmedis are nice, disciplined,well educated, polished, well mannered and kind MUSLIMS and not only that they are kind humans. ``

This bothers me..so if some are not ``nice`` (e.g. the kaffirs), is it OK to hamla on them? }}}

jang sahib jii

Yes, everyone regardless of their religion has every right of state protection. There is no doubt about that.

I emphasised specific characteristics of Ahmedis , why? b/c these are my personal experiences , I just wished to applaud them for their good characteristics.

Sorry, you totally misunderstood my post. Kafir word is not in my dictionary. There was no reason to murder them . Hope you`re clear now. thank you

Good article,

For the record who are we to judge who is a muslim and whose not. I have seen Ahmedis say the same kalma, observe the same namaz, the same roza so how can we say they are not muslims. Maybe we can call them another sect like Ismaelees or Wahabis.
I learned my quran and namaz from an Ahmedi so does that make me a Sunni or an Ahmedi?
I wonder are the muslims afraid or are their beliefs so weak that they have to persecute an entire community?

More Power to you!
Dear Author,
I am glad you bring this issue to the forefront into the conciousness of the mainstream Muslims.

Injustice is injustice....

The treatment metted out to Ahmadis in Pakistan is Bigotry and ignorance personified.

But then again, the so called Muslims of Pakistan hold on to the rotting corpse of Islam anyway, one that is devoid of its true spirit of tolerance, peace, and compassion.

The mercy of Allah confounds the so called Muslims, and they have transformed the merciful compassionate and forgiving GOD into the vengeful godhead model of the Jewish Torah and the old testament. Only the followers of a vengeful god can be so mean, cruel, heartless and unjust, pronoucing death upon the Ahmadis as unbelievers, calling them Wajib-ul-Qatl.

Re: # 49

A correction is needed (for #49): A good friend brought to my attention that the current Khalifa Hazrat Mirza Masroor Ahmad also belongs to the family of Mirza Sahib. In fact, the current Khalifa is the grandson of Hazrat Sahib. I admit my carelessness for not checking it. When I was writing this, I was thinking more along the lines of Hazrat sahib’s Sons who were Khalifa before, and then their Sons. Mirza Masroor Ahmad Sahib is the grandson of the founder Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.

#115 by sanatani on April 7, 2006 6:57pm PT
yar sanatani..why the f not? remember vasudhaiva kutumbakam?
parshuram here has really impressed me...he is most welcome to stay in the land of his ancestors.

IB (#121)

All sects being against Ahmadis does not prove much for a Muslim. All groups in Mecca were also against Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). So where does that leave you?

A hadith of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) suggests that a day will come when his ummah will be split in 72 groups-versus-1 group, and that this one group will on truth. Without getting into if Ahmaids are this one group or not ... it shows that 72 sects can get it all wrong. Human experience supports that one group being singled out does not necessarily make it wrong. I fail to see your point here.

Mirza Sahib claimed to be the prophet foretold by Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). Before asking me, why don’t you explain the meaning of Kara Dajjal as well as Hajooj and Majooj.

And who said that Imam Mahdi and Issa-ibne-Marriam are two different persons? “Mahdi” means “guided one”, which also applies to a prophet. And hadith about “return of Issa-ibne-Marriam” in latter days suggests appearance of a future prophet. They both very well may be the same person ... referred to at different times, in different contexts by Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

Rather, one of the recorded hadith in Ibne-Maja clarifies that Imam Mahdi and Massih are indeed the same person.

[Your interest in Islam is very admirable ... esp. for one who earlier claimed not to be a religious person at all (your post #105).]

re:#110 by masadi
Masadi dude,
Taking a little break from America-bashing?
Wonder why?
As far as quoting the ``Bedouin Handbooki of Daily Living`` (aka Qoran) is concerned to prove Ahmediyyas are not muslims, most non-muslims feel the book needs major revisions.
Let us see if your America-bashing mind can come up with any good suggestions!
Sridhar

@sattar bhai,
quoteing verses from the holy book & trying to colour them in what philosophy is a good move but in real sense people believe in majority ; not just majority of sects but all of the sects in Islam don`t agree with your translation of the holy book nor your concept of `end of prophecy` - the argument that `Muslims are waiting for the prophet or messiah ( Hazrat Esa & Iman Mehdi ) ` is true but kindlylet me know which massiah does Mirza Sahab or his predecessors claims to be ? Hazrat Essa aka Jesus Christ * which will only come after Kara Dajjal comes * or Hazrat Imam Mehdi who will come to wage a war between faithfuls and Hajood & Majood ?
HolY Book on return of Hazrat Esa aka Jesus Christ
``And (Jesus) shall be a Sign (for the coming of) the Hour (of Judgment): therefore have no doubt about the (Hour), but follow ye Me: this is a Straight Way.``
(Quran, Az-Zukhuruf, 43:61)
Prophet Mohammad *s.a.w* on Hazrat Esa
By Him in Whose Hands my soul is, Son of Mary (Jesus) will shortly descend amongst you people (Muslims) as a just ruler and will break the Cross and kill the pig and abolish the Jizyah (a tax taken from the non-Muslims, who are in the protection, of the Muslim government). Then there will be abundance of money and no one will accept charitable gifts.
(Sahih Bukhari, Vol. 3, Book 34, No. 425)
Mirza G. Ahmad who is alledgedly going to be Imam Mahdi (who you say has already been born) has actually passed away... and the same man -according to your faith- is ALSO going to be ``the promised messiah`` i.e. Jesus (as).. holi moli.
I don`t understand, so you recognize the prophet (saws) as the last bearer of the message (the Quran) but NOT as last prophet!? You should know that i`ve come accross so many Qadyanis/Ahmadis who claim this at first, but in the end they all go back to regarding Mirza G. Ahmad as the actual last prophet.

re: Ahmediyyas: a failed reform?
From what little i know of this sect, it looks like a (failed?)attempt at reforming Islam.
Ahmediyyas already believe that Prophet Md was not the last one and reject Jehad as defined by Deobandis. It is a pity their version of Islam died down and got replaced by the more militant version that we see in Pakistan today.
Sridhar

In addendum to #118: Possibility of being in company of prophets can be interpreted in physical as well as spiritual sense. If interpreted in physical sense, it suggests continuation of prophethood. I don’t see how you can rightfully restrict the meaning of this verse to purely spiritual domain.

Other Quranic references I provided indicate that continuation of prophethood has been addressed in several places in Quran.

Masadi (#113):

Quran is a book, not a dictionary. Neither is it a lexicon. It is futile to suggest that … if Quran uses a word, it must use this word in each and every possible meaning and connotation. This essentially sums up your illogical, unreasonable position.

I provided you with two Arabic references where “khatam” is used to show one’s high status. Furthermore, I provided you with a recorded saying of Bibi Ayesha, which further supports a different connotation of “khatam” than what you have suggested. Apparently facts and evidence are lost on you.

Quran repeats each issue numerous times, under varying situations and contexts. However, in this case, all you have is one, only one, dubious reference. It is dubious since, as I have shown, it can be interpreted in numerous ways, to say the least.

Other references I provided are for you to reflect. If this is too difficult, then never mind. And if you think I am distorting Quran, you can go to hell. If this harsh language bothers you, refrain from getting carried away next time.

Ultimately it all boils down to SECULARISM.............had Pakistan been a secular Republic it wold not have mattered what ``Islam`` means to the state.............these laws were enacted because Pakistan turned towards theocracy under Zia`s rule and therein lies the problem with all the muslim majority countries where they want to do ``Islamic`` this and ``Islamic`` that in matters of statecraft...............all of them have unwittingly empowered the mullahs and now have the tiger by the tail...............

re: How Ahmediyyas were declared non-muslims in Pakistan
This is how Ahmadiyyas became non-muslims
(NATIONAL ASSEMBLY SECRETARIAT
NOTIFICATION
Islamabad, the 7th September 1974

This bill was introduced in the National Assembly on the 7th September 1974,
N.A. Bill No. 29 of 1974.

A Bill further to amend the Constitution of Islamic Republic of Pakistan.
Whereas it is expedient further to amend the Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan for the purposes hereinafter appearing;
It is hereby enacted as follows:--

1. Short title and commencemnet. --
(1) This act may be called the Constitution (Second Amendment) Act, 1974.
(2) It shall come into force at once.
2. Amendment of Article 106 of the Constitution. -- In the Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, hereinafter referred to as the Constitution, in article 106, in clause (3) after the word ``communities``, the words and brackets ``and persons of the Qadiani group or the Lahori group (who called themselves `Ahmadis`) shall be inserted.
3. Amendment of Article 260 of the Constitution. -- In the Constitution, in Article 260, after clause (2), the following new clause shall be added, namely:--
(3) A person who does not believe in the absolute and unqualified finality of the Prophethood of Muhammad (peace be upon Him), the last of the Prophets or claims to be a prophet, in any sense of the word or of any description whatsoever, after Muhammad (peace be upon Him), or recognises such a claimant as a prophet or a religious reformer, is not a Muslim for the purposes of the Constitution or Law.)
Sridhar