Ahmadis – The Forgotten People

The genius Rsridhar says about ``Pakistani punjabis``:

``Most of them are in the Army and end up amassing wealth by unfair means.``


The population of Punjab ... 52% of Pakistan= 52/100* 150 million = 78 million.

The total strength of the Pakistan Army= 600 000
Total strength of all forces combined = 1 million

I wonder how ``most`` Punjabis are in the army ?

Sattar in his contradictory distortion writes in #256 <<< So yes, the Divine Law is now “sealed up” through prophethood of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), if this makes you happy. >>>

Unfortunately for you and your distorted interpretations, that aya is not talking about ``Divine Law`` but about prophethood and a person (Muhammed) being its seal, or completion/ending.




[33:40] Muhammad is not the father of any man among you. He is a messenger of GOD and the seal (finality) of the prophets. GOD is fully aware of all things

Sattar writes <<< You have misunderstood Quranic view of ``not differentiating between God’s messengers``. You are missing the context and therefore misinterpreting the issue. >>>

Not at all, the verse means what it says when it quotes believers, according to what Allah wants them to say and accept. In your usual pattern of distorting the Quran you have explained away, based upon whim, whatever does not fit in with your narrow ideology

What part of this verse is very difficult for you to understand``
?



[3:84] Say, ``We believe in GOD, and in what was sent down to us, and in what was sent down to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Patriarchs, and in what was given to Moses, Jesus, and the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction among any of them. To Him alone we are Muslim.``

And how would that fit in with your distorted understanding that places the prophet as #1 in the verse that talks about the completing of prophethood?

And quoting 2:253 that discusses God`s judgment on grades assigned, which is his domain only, not the believers and what they are to accept, just does not cut it as explanation.

And why should I comment on your extra quranic references quoting the prophet`s wife? Was she the spokesperson of Allah? Was she the messenger of Allah? and I don`t accept any source other than the Quran to be valid as authority on Islam. That is just distortion that you are undertaking. However, why don`t you present the Arabic text of that so called reference, even though it has no authority and I can bet you are distorting that as well. Blindly following an idelogy does that to a person.

Then you distort 4:69 trying to suggest that it means that ``being with the prophets`` suggests that a person IS a prophet. Not so, that verse is suggesting mere reward, it does not suggest a physical presence IN THIS WORLD with a prophet. It is clearly explained by this verse and who those prophets were on which is ``Anam Allah`` referred to in Sura 1:




[19:58] These are the prophets whom GOD blessed (Anam Allaho aleyhim). From among the descendants of Adam, and the descendants of those whom we carried with Noah, and the descendants of Abraham and Israel, and from among those whom we guided and selected. When the revelations of the Most Gracious are recited to them, they fall prostrate, weeping.

And to SEAL it all, let me give you an example of how the Quran used this word on another occassion, and I have checked all reference to the use of this word and they mean what the word says, a completion or ending:



Here the Quran talks about a drink whose SEAL or topping off or completing will be Musk, within which, i.e before which will be others (if you read the subsequent verse). But nothing after the seal!

#268 writes
<<< masadi miaN,

Learn to share your ideas with civility. And avoid accusing others of deliberately distorting Quran and of being not too far from hell, etc. Such belligerence is idiotic … >>>

What kind of a lying moron are you? You told me to ``go to hell`` if I didnt agree with you and in response to that I had said given by the manner in which you handle the Quran you are not too far from it. You detach my response from its context and then try to condemn me with it , removed a week from when it was said. What kind of a dishonest person are you? Your meaning that you are force fitting onto the Quranic verse that talks about a completing of prophethood makes absolutely NO SENSE in that context and is never used in that sense in the Quran. It is a deliberate distortion.

masadi miaN,

Learn to share your ideas with civility. And avoid accusing others of deliberately distorting Quran and of being not too far from hell, etc. Such belligerence is idiotic …

Your assumptions have turned out to be less than well-grounded. This applies to “Seal of Prophets” and to the “no distinction between prophets” issues.

So you may now stop boasting about knowing Quran very well. Such self-praise is a sign of immaturity and an inflated ego.

Note that I am not trying to convert you. As issues are raised, I am underscoring that views of Ahmadi-Muslims are not without merit. That’s all. Beyond that, feel free to believe and practice what makes sense to you.

Reading some of the Sunni comments here..

no wonder some non-sunnis
have started Direct Action Day today in Karachi.

Kulharee,
You are a Qadiani dude?
Pehle kyon nahee bataya....
I have been to Quadian many times. In fact my cousin`s wife is from a house that touches the boundary of your mosque. I always used to think that they are Muslims.

I have even seen the pictures of their peer, they are super nice to Khalsa(Practicing Sikhs). They showed me their building and gave me prashaad(moong wale ladoo).

so cool......

No oppression for Kulharee and other Qaudianis, they are from my part of Punjab. My cousin knows everyone there (right from hawaldaar to SHO).....

Sattar Sahib and Urstruly Sahib,
Let`s stop arguing about who was first and who was last. I was there. I was in the line way in the back and Mirza Sahib was with me. They ran out of tickets long before our turn came. I hope this helps.

maunala urstruly: what`s this i hear..your tax $$$(and mine) are being used by Uncle Sam to buy predator drones with hellfire missiles to pressurize mushy to get rid of the people in the paki armed forces with the real islamic beards..

wutz up wit dat? huh?

Re: # 261

``Ibne Mariyam hua kare koi
Mere dukh ki dawa kare koi``

Ghalib

Why we bother about these prophets and the cults they set up to divide humanity to hate, persecute and kill each other. Why not follow Budha, the great teacher and try to end the suffering of humanity as far as possible.

Urstruly,

When a reference proves you wrong, you tend to drop the issue altogether. So pardon me if I fail to take you seriously.

- Earlier you made egregious claims against Mirza Sahib. References I cited proved you wrong. As your references turned out to be grossly incorrect, you dropped the issue without having the decency to take back your uncouth comments.

- When I mentioned that Shah Walliullah supported continuation of prophethood, you suggested I was lying. When I provided you with a reference, you dropped the issue without admitting your error.

- To prove end of prophethood you cited a hadith where dear Prophet (pbuh) said … ”I am the last prophet and this mosque of mine is the last mosque.”

I asked you meaning of ”last” … as in ”last mosque” in this hadith. But you dropped the issue. I’ve asked you several times since then, but you’ve refused to respond.

There’s much more … but you get the point.

+++++

Your attitude reek of lies, deceit, and deception. So pardon me if I don’t take you seriously.

discoverer #248:

Should a prophet wave his hand and part the ocean to prove he is a prophet? Or should be wake up a smelly, dead corpse? Or should he fly above clouds across the Atlantic?

As you demand proof, let me ask first … what kind of proof would satisfy you? This question is supposed to make you think …

malik99 (#215):

Yep, let’s blame the military for shia-sunni riots. Otherwise ummah was doing just fine. Please let us know when you finally wake up.

Ahmadis are not inciting anyone. Ummah’s problem is that it is too insecure and incompetent to do anything right … and habitually blames others for their own screw ups. Jail-time for an Ahmadi for saying “assalam-o-alaikom”? And ummah rallied very hard to pass this law. What did this law accomplish? Hello, is anyone home?

You may not be fully aware of this persecution as the media cannot openly report it. Ahmadi-Muslim community has rejected propaganda and violence, even though their persecution has picked up considerable momentum in the past 50 years. You will be hard pressed to find such a peaceful community anywhere in the world.

And it bothers you if they call themselves Muslim. It seems you are the one with a problem …

Urstruly …

Several scholars throughout history of Islam have interpreted “Seal of Prophets” to suggest “most exalted prophet”. It is your own fault if you did not know this.

I provided you this link several times … so don’t get too cute …

Click [Views on continuation of propohethood]

Your scholars also tell you that Issa-ibne-Marriam resides above the clouds. And they base this on Quran … even after 1400 years!!

Your ullema are uncouth, jahil fanatics. That may be part of your problem ...

masadi (more on #135),

You have misunderstood Quranic view of ``not differentiating between God’s messengers``. You are missing the context and therefore misinterpreting the issue.

Certain distinctions between prophets need to be maintained. For example, using “Moses” to refer to “Jesus” would be absurd. Doing away with such differentiation between prophets would be incorrect.

Prophets differed in their missions and scopes of their respective prophethood. Quran attests to differences in ranks of prophets when it says:

”We have made some of these apostles to excel the others, among them are they to whom Allah spoke, and some of them He exalted by rank … “ (2:253)

My view is that Quran assigns highest rank to Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) by calling him “Seal of Prophets”. Divine Law was perfected through his prophethood. Quran also calls him “Model for believers” and “Mercy for all the worlds”.

+++++

”Not differentiating between God’s messengers” suggests that a believer must accept all prophets as valid, righteous, messengers of God. Message brought by all messengers shared the spirit of establishing a close relationship between man and his Creator.

This teaching eliminates feelings of competition and jealousy between Muslims and others. It makes it easier for others to accept messengership of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) since his message attests to propohethood and righteousness of other prophets. This is fully consistent with meaning of “Seal of Prophets” as I explained earlier.

Along these lines, as an Ahmadi Muslim I accept messengership not only of Prophets Moses and Abraham etc., but also that of Prophets Buddha, Ram, Krishna, Zaratushtra, and more (peace be upon all of them). I hope you get the point.

Re: # 256

Could you point me to the Arabic text where terminology like khatam-ul-muhaqaqeen, and khatam-ul-Auliya might have been used.

And the next question is, why didn`t Arabs figure out the meaning of Khatam to be ``par excellence`` in 1400 years, until Mirza Sahib figured it out.