Ahmadis – The Forgotten People

Manto,

Re: 236

Sikhs have been very successful no doubt (in spite of being active in military/public life) but so are Hindu Punjabis. I doubt if they are any more successful or wealthier or better educated than Hindu Punjabis. As to why Punjabis are more successful than other Indians/subcontinentals, you would know better you being one of them (Punjabi).

Regards

Zeemax sahib,

There`s a point in what you say. But clannishness is not unique to minorities even majority communities practise endogamy, exclusivism. Besides clannishness will magnify strengths only if you have some strengths to begin with. A community of fools would only share foolishness.

Regards

zee yaar...

I wouldn`t know... I`ve never lived in cliques of any kind... because my family consortium (Paternal, Maternal, in-laws) finds an expression for many sects and ideologies...

#231 by majumdar

...Why is it so? Any guesses....

It is because if they weren`t strong, they would be wiped out. They derive this strength from being clannish, or `Unity` in other words, and unity is strength. Help each other along, live in communities, share information and means, trade with each other on credit terms, marry within community ... and so forth.

Am I right Manto?

That does not explain the Sikh success in India...

Manto,

Is it that minority sects are founded by people who are very super brilliant and hence are able to attract the best people to their fold. Or is it that small minorities are often forcibly excluded from public life/politics/military and left with no option but to concentrate on economic and scholastic success.

Regards

#207 by rsridhar

There is one guy who did go deep into Islam and came to the same conclusion that u did: that good and evil are the same. His name is Osama bin Laden.

You got it. Wow that was quick.

Do u know where he is hiding?

Nope. Honest.

Dear Majumdar...

Ismailism is divided into: Bohris- Dawoodi and Alavi Sulaimani Ismaili and Nizari Ismaili...

It is true that small minorities- usually minority within minority ... have done better than the rest... In Pakistan the most successful groups financially are Parsis, Ismailis and Ahmadis...

It is an interesting phenomenon and requires study. The jewish analogy- while dangerous- is quite accurate ... and hence the resentment is similar too.

#205 by Mantolives

Of-course you know. I just thought it may be of benefit of others who perhaps do not `know` :-)

Manto,

What are the various subsects of Ismailism and who are their respective heads, doctrinal differences between various sects - where can I find info on the same.

It is quite curious how minority religions and minority sects within religions are often so much more wealthier and more intelligent than the rest. Jews, Sikhs (in relation to rest of India) and Parsis stand out as advanced minority religions. As far as sects are considered Quakers and Calvinists among Christians, Ismailis, Bohris and Ahmedis among Muslims, Jains among Hindus (I know there wil be some protest on this but for all practical purposes Jains have merged with Hindus).

Why is it so? Any guesses.

Regards

Nope..


1- You can convert to Ismaili Islam.

2- Khoja is a generic term used for Agha Khanis, Bohris, and a breakaway twelver sect as well... Depends on what Khoja you are referring to.

Manto,

Recently I met someone who was heading on the of educational institution owned by khojas. what he told me was

1. You can not convert to Ismailis. Its like jews, you have to be born in the family. If the woman marries non-ismaili, only the kinds have the option to become one.
2. Khojas hate Agha Khanis, actually they consider them kaafir.

Is that correct?

mohar11...

My parents - being the nice folk that they are - gave me the option of choosing my own religion. I was never an Ahmadi... the idea never appealed to me... I became a sunni because that was the religion I found most convenient at one point... But Ismaili I became as a matter of conviction at a time when Ismailis were being denounced at the local Punjab University Campus for ``trying to subvert Islam``...

I had gone to take my Law exams... and a fellow from Jamiat-e-Tulaba came and wanted my signature on a student petition denouncing all Agha Khanis... and I refused. He asked me if I was one- I said yes! I was an Agha Khani. And then on ... I made a concerted effort to become one.

BJKumar...

Did you know that the biggest king maker and wheeler and dealer in Pakistan... a fellow by the name of Tariq Aziz is an Ahmadi? Did you know the strongest reference in Pakistan is one Mirza Fareed, the first born of Mirza Nasir Ahmed - the third Caliph of Ahmaddiya movement? Did you know that Shahnawaz Industries, one of the largest private Industrial Empires, which owns everything from Mercedes Benz Franchise to Shezan Foods is an Ahmadi? that the owners of the largest Toyota dealerships in Pakistan are Ahmadis? That the owner of the largest MEDIA Group aka JANG GROUP is also an Ahmadi? I don`t want to fuel the Mullah impression of ``Ahmadis control Pakistan`` .... but Ahmadis are very strong in Pakistan...

So basically- my ``political`` and ``personal`` advantage lies with being an Ahmadi rather than being anything else...

But you would make an issue rather with my conversion and question my bonafide intentions with your diseased and bigoted mentality ?

-YLH

Re: # 223 YLH
[...but I`ll tell you- conversions are a matter of conscience and only those who are able to think and understand may convert...]

OK, bigshot, enlighten us - why did you convert from ahmedi to sunni - and then sunni to ismaili?....

#All interactors

Kindly accept my sincere apology for EVER expressing my belief that any of the people here have any real dreams.

It was a mistaken belief. I did not intend to mislead anybody - I was only expressing what I thought at the time based on what I knew at the time!!!

Thank you very much!