Ahmadis – The Forgotten People

#15 VIEWER


My point is that by saying this you are behaving very similar to Islamic Mullahs. Mullahs propagate killings and burnings against Qadianis and you are saying that the same should be done against the Mullahs. So what remains the difference between you and Mullahs, both are targeting to kill. Reaction to religious intolerance cannot be another type of intolerance.

You cant blame ordinary Muslims to have this type of mentality. The problem is in the religion itself.

The Quoran was reveled to bring peace in the arabian peninsula.

Peace by what ??? Not by preaching peace or preaching mutual co-existence or reforming the warring tribes, it was Peace through violence. Peace through wars.

Thats why Muslims go to any length to claim that Islam is a peaceful religion. Peace through what???

Now dont ask that question.

I actually believe the way out of this mess is simple....

Follow the constitution. Even in its most ideological form... Pakistan`s constitution provides for certain guarantees of fundamental rights which when upheld can reverse this unfortunate situation against my community.

We are Pakistanis- we made this country and we will live and die as Pakistanis... whether the Mullahs like it or not.

#18 MANTOLIVES

The relevant portions of your constitution of 1973 are quoted below:-



Article: 2 Islam to be State religion

---

2. Islam to be State religion.-Islam shall be the State religion of Pakistan.

I think, with the above provision in the Constitution ,you cannot separate Islam from the Pakistani State.

So Mullahs will always remain in the business of the State, whether you like it or not.

#18 by Mantolives on April 7, 2006 4:34am PT


I actually believe the way out of this mess is simple....
Follow the constitution.


Right...because 99% of the work involved in getting a pig to fly is buying the pig..once you have the pig, the rest of the task is simple...

manto..kid...pakiland is an islamic state and your dad isn`t a muslim..there`s a possibility that you`ll be declared non-muslim too..your dad can`t call his place of worship a mosque or be buried in a muslim cemetary...

that`s just the reality...deal with it..

feroz, very true.
we are intolerant . i recalled back,My brother was in Medical college when this movement started, and he has Ahmadi friend. A bunch of mullah minded boys came to his room and threatened him either you come to Mosque and announce that you are Muslim or we shall accept you as Ahmadi.His reply was ` I am a good human being , you go and do whatever you like.

I know some Paki Ahmadis have been allowed to reside in Qadian....next time I go to India, I will visit Qadian, and find out about the offshoot and why they are so despised and persecuted by the rest of muslims.........

So sad, I can only imagine the plight of Hindus and Sikhs in Pakistan, if
Ahmadias have to go through this.

So now Ahmadias know the sorrows they brought upon Hindus and Sikhs by
championing and contribution to create a country based on hate and separateness
in the name of religion.
The hate will consume them and slowly the rest of the minorities, one after another.
You reap what you sow and now your have nothing in store but to suffer and weep.
The poison has seeped deep, it is not going to come out.

Excellent article.
Kept the focus on discrimination and persecution and not on theological issues. If the mainstream muslims want to consider Ahmadis non-muslims they are free to do so. But they should not be free to persecute them, curtail their religious practice and discriminate against them.

Unfortunately, laws and constitutions are only as tolerant as people who make them, interpret them and implement them. Intolerance against Ahmadis is deeply rooted among the populataion at large. That is why no democratic government has dared to reverse these policies.

This is a very difficult subject to tackle.

I covered this issue once in the following:

http://www.pakistanlink.com/Community/2005/Feb05/24/01.htm

Intolerance can be even more damaging for Pakistan

if it is not checked like in this case.

#15 viewer

Dear viewer

Al right you go ahead, try to have a dialogue with them with logic. See if you can get something out of it. End result will be the same barbaric actions.

My second take will be to isolate them in their own four walls if, you really wish the betterment of the Pakistani society at large.

Re: # 18

Agree.......

A kizilbash

Thank you Parshuram for a well-written piece. Growing up in india, we dont know about Ahmedis enough..i knew shia, sunni, memon-bohri and khoja-ismilies. Are there any in India and how are they doing?

# zeena
``Ahmedis are nice, disciplined,well educated, polished, well mannered and kind MUSLIMS and not only that they are kind humans. ``

This bothers me..so if some are not ``nice`` (e.g. the kaffirs), is it OK to hamla on them?

Well Political agendas and propaganda aside but a fair analysis would show that the thesis of ``institutionalized discrimination`` of Quadianis by the state of Pakistan is absolutely baseless.

Consider these facts:

1. A Quadiayani is doubly enfranchised to take part in political process - they have reserved seats in Parliament as well as they can compete on open seats. In other words an Quadiani can run an election on open seat but a Muslim cannot run an election on an Quadiani seat.

2. A Quadiani can freely vote for any candidate of his liking though he has to identify himself as a non-Muslim minority along with all non Muslims.

3. A Quadiani has reserved seats in provincial, local, and national government bureaucracy as non-Muslim minority as well as they can compete on open merit. THis doubles their chance as compared to their Muslim counterpart.

4. Quadiyani are fully represented in Armed Forces. As a matter of fact Musharaf probably himself is an atheist or a closet Quadiani but his wife is 100% Quadiani. This disproves the contention that Quadianis are discriminated against. If that were the case Musharaf should not have been promoted beyond Naib Havaldar; (though his actions of violating constitution of Pakistan earn him a court martial and death through firing squad, but that`s a separate issue).


Having said that: The clause in the constitution that decalres Quadianis as non-Muslims is cast in stone. They will never ever be accepted as Muslims and they will never be allowed to prolestyze their faith in this Islamic state. Their best course of action for the betterment of their coming generations is that they stop calling themselves Muslims or Ahmadis. They should not be ashamed of calling themselves Quadianis or Mirzais. Their intolerance towards Muslim faith and Muslim ideals and outright insults in some cases will only create futher hardship for them and they will be further alienated in the society. Live and let live.

Thank you friends for your feedback. It saddening to witness how much Pakistan and other Islamic countries are missing out by rejecting and alienating their religious minorities. Matters of faiths are matters of faith, and they are personal and are meant to be between an individual and his master.

I agree with Jang Sahib, that one doesn’t need to be “nice and decent” to be protected under laws of the state. Everyone should have the same entitlement to civil, human and personal rights.

Truly Sahib.. can you please provide a list of some high ranking Pakistanis in the Armed Forces? I think you are totally mistaken about Ahmadis competing or voting in the General Elections in Pakistan. That is so not true. Here is a recent quote by one of our Ahamdi leaders:

>>>>The community feels that “this strange measure has resulted in a ridiculous situation in which there is a common list of voters which contains the names of all the Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs, Parsis, Christians and Buddhist voters and a second list termed as non-Muslim list, comprising Ahmadis only.”<<<<

If you wish to see the lists of high ranking Ahmadi officials in Pakistan (in the Armed forces, and other public sectors jobs) let me know. I will be happy to provide you with one.

Truly Sahib, I don’t mean to discuss the religious beliefs, because that is totally irrelevant. Ahmadis should be allowed to call themselves what they want (Muslims) and I am sure Sunnis wouldn’t appreciate being termed after the name of the City of their followers, why should Ahmadis be subjected to such a treatment? And how come Muslims always complain about discrimination and maltreatment by the West and then turn around and afford the same treatment to their own minorities?

You seem to be genuinely upset over why Ahmadis should be accepted in the Mainstream Islam. Why is that? And what do you think is the purpose of religon column on Pakistani Passports?

urstruly # 29

(Well Political agendas and propaganda aside but a fair analysis would show that the thesis of ``institutionalized discrimination`` of Quadianis by the state of Pakistan is absolutely baseless)

I am a witness to this institutionalized discrimination. Many years back, when I was in air force, some very good officers were told that since they are Ahmedis. they have no future. So they were advised to leave. Those guys left. It is another matter that they continued to do well wherever the went.

But the ahmedis should not worry too much about it. they are not alone. there are voices which say that shias are non-muslims. Qazi hussain Ahmed says Ismailis are non-muslims. Talibans say that any one who is not like the Arabs of 6th century is non-muslim.

soon, majority of Pakistanis will be non-muslims!

nhk

The article is good and I hope the author can keep a cool demeanor to conduct the discussion on this sensitive issue.

The Ahmedi history did not start with the 1974 declaration. There is more to it. The amendment in the constitution was not the starting point but was the culmination of a struggle that started immediately after the independence of Pakistan.

Ahmedis` were at the forefront of the Pakistan struggle. In fact, if it were not for a strong support of Ahmedis, Jinnah would have had a hard time convincing Punjabi politician about Pakistan. So Ahmedis were a part of the several Muslims group that got together in the majority provinces for the Pakistan demand before the partition. The majority of the Muslim bureaucracy in Punjab was Ahmedi led by Sir Zafar uUllah.(I will come to this later)

Immediately after the partition, and with the arrival of UP Muslims, a mini bureaucratic war broke out for grabbing federal and provincial jobs. The UP Urdu speakings were ruthless in job grabbing but the Punjabi entrenched bureaucracy was equally brutal.

The first coup in Pakistan was executed when Punjabi bureaucracy and the landlords put their hands together and physically removed Liaquat Ali Khan who was grabbing all jobs everywhere for the Urdu speaking. Urdu speaking brought their communal mindset with them from India. Instead of fighting fair and square they pulled the religion card. (Which was their main weapon in India anyway.)

Maulana Moudoodi also known as “murdoodi” in the religious circles in Karachi was co-opted by the Mohajirs. He started writing fictitious stories abt Ahmedis. The attempt was to put the Punjabi bureaucracy dominated by the ahmedis on the backfoot. The strategy worked and the Modoodi and his henchmen were able to put together a movement against ahmedis in Lahore and some other parts of Punjab in 1953. Lahore was placed under the army rule and under the martial Law on Gen. Ayub Khan Insistence as he too was trying to make an alliance with the Urdu speaking bureaucracy.

Many ahmedis from the army and civil jobs were removed and the UP Muslims got control of the bureaucracy. In 1960, when the capital was moved to Islamabad, 80% top level jobs were with the Urdu speaking and a few Punjabis were struggling in the mid level jobs (most of them were ahmedi). The issue died and nobody cared about until the elections in 1970. Modoodi made it a wedge issue and tried to grab votes in Punjab. He failed. Ahmedis were influential in Punjab PPP. Some became ministers in both Punjab and the federal cabinets. (One name I remember: Raja Munawar Ahmed from potohar-chakwal-pind deaden khan region).

The movement against Ahmedis in 1973-74 was to bring the Bhutto government down. Bhutto compromised and the constitution was amended despite strong protest from Sindh, Balochistan and NWFP.

Many Ahmedis moved to Sindh they bought lands and businesses and some Sindhis too became Ahmedi.

Ahmedi currently are about half a percent of Punjab population with almost 100% education.

Now the Ahmedi side

Ahmedis started out as orthodox muslims. It is not true that they don’t support Jihad. They may have different views now but starting out they believed in orthodox Islam.
Mirza sahib came on the scene when Muslims in India were going thru a major turmoil.
In UP, the Deoband and the Barelvi movements were taking roots and Ahmedi also took inspiration from Deobandi group. In fact, as I understand it, the original Ahmedi writings were similar to what was preached by Deobandis. So in a way Ahmedis are a Punjabi version of Deoband.

ZafarUllah khan had huge input in the Pakistan resolution. He was a known toady and very close to the British government. His participation in the 1940 resolution helped the Congress and the others suspicion that the Pak resolution was British sponsored. Jinnah had to accept him because he delivered the Punjabi Muslim bureaucracy and Landlords to Muslim League.

During the Zia regime the Mullah found Ahmedis an easy target for their political ambition.


I hope Sattar finds some time to look at my post for accuracy.

Urstuly I will come to your post later.