UPDATE Delhi Explosion in Mosque
Meerut on Fire, Karachi Burns

swarrier #146 Very good point. Rest assured that your fellow countrymen need to understand this point much far, far more than Pakistanis. And certainly Ahmedzai - as his contributions on diverse issues to chowk indicate - hardly needs this lesson from you. Go tell it to your fellow countrymen like arjun and ajeya and harimau and countless others who have written nothing on chowk other than about problems with muslims and/or Pakistan. You wont find a Pakistani equivalent to these single-issue characters from India.

Re: # 155
Dear Tahmed
That is precisely my point. The pot and kettle are both black. I`ve not been on chowk long enough, but I`ve seen the same sort of folks on both sides. Some are frontal in their assault, others take a tortuous route but the net result is still the same. You are a Pakistani and you say more Indians are scum, some Indians would say the same about Pakistanis. You (not necessarily you) make fun of Hindus , Hindus make fun of Muslims.

All of this adds fuel to the fire and right now I`m as guilty of it as anybody else. So suppose we ignore the ones who make a noise completely.

All of us know, or at least are supposed to know , that as people, countries, religions we are not perfect. If we were we wouldn`t have the issues we do. If anybody lives under the illusion that they are the blessed ones well then, they should seriously be seeing a shrink.

End of rant.

May the force be with everybody. -)

#153 second para, line saying ``I am concerned about further details on these individuals -`` should read ``I am not concerned about further details on these individuals -``

Ahmedzai #141 dhaera mehrabaani, ahmedzai saeb, for the good wishes. As you may have noticed, my vocabulary of pashto (which was quite limited to begin with) has indeed suffered due to years of absence from Pakistan, so I am glad to provided the translation.

It is a well known fact that individuals who stereotype other groups (whether based on ethnicity, or religion or nationality) do so in an attempt to cover-up their own inadequacies and feelings of inferiority. So, I am concerned about further details on these individuals - i.e. whether they are what they claim to be or not. Since the overriding fact is that by stereotyping and abusing, such an individual has already indicated what he basically is, namely that he is a loser suffering from complexes. A few individuals (all Indians trying to pose as Pakistanis, like the stink-bomb ``khalid ahmed`` or ``mullah shamsul``) have tried this, and are quickly spotted anyway because they are too stupid to keep up the act for too long. But by and large, it is easy enough to spot an Indian posing as a Pakistani.

As for your question about the message to Indians - I dont think our telling them to worry about their own problems is going to change them. Nor does it matter what they write on chowk - in a way it is good, since it opens the eyes of many Pakistanis who come to chowk to the reality of how much spite and hatred there exists in India (in addition to the goodwill that many Indian chowkies also demonstrate). This is the reality one would not know otherwise. So, when an Indian like ranjit mocks people dying in earthquakes, or an Indian like arjun who has been wetting his lungi with delight over the past few years at the joy of seeing the real life misery of Pakistanis who were deported after 9/11 - all this is very edudcational. Since one would not believe such characters actually exist in real life.

ballukhan #142, #144 and harish_hyd #143,

Gentlemen,
I think that the most important person to convince is the one we shave every morning. If I can`t believe in partition, in the obscure unity of Muslims, in the use of force to convince people in matters of faith and loyalty, in the application of intolerance for consensus, and the selective use of human rights when it suits us, then how can I debate effectively in the defense of what I can`t believe?

This should apply to all of us. Emotions and jingoism aside, there is usually a right path and a wrong one - things are really more black and white than we think. Partition was wrong. Gujarat was wrong. Terrorism is wrong. War is wrong. Life is right. Death is wrong. Tolerance is right. Intolerance is wrong.

harish_hyd #145, {``This is what I`ve found most intriguing. While many people (Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs included) sacrificed their lives and limbs for the freedom struggle, none of the ML leaders, including the greatest of them all, Jinnah ever went to jail``}

Harry Bhai,

This is one among many damaging points about the sincerity and honesty of the Muslim League leaders concerning their vision, their commitment to independence, and their struggle against colonialism. Personally, I think that they were used by the British to keep the Congress off balance. Once their usefulness was depleted, they were discarded - much like Mushy and Pakistan today.

#141, Ahmadzai {``What I am trying to say is that on this board, it is very difficult to be Pakistani and be posting anti-Pakistan messages for too long. ``}

Khan Sahib,
I had heard that Niswaar is not good for you. Now I am sure that it causes brain damage. :)

#139 by Salim_Chauhan

I am sorry to note that while many Muslims languished in British jails, the leaders of the Muslim League were not among these patriots. Several times during WWII, these League guys collaborated with the British.

This is what I`ve found most intriguing. While many people (Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs included) sacrificed their lives and limbs for the freedom struggle, none of the ML leaders, including the greatest of them all, Jinnah ever went to jail. Instead, they exhorted Muslims to shed their blood and that of their enemies without any qualms.

First Barachota transforming into Salim and now Naqshbandi..............only the youth represent the future of a vibrant Pakistan which can change and adopt to the modernity............rest of the old hags are useless..........

Re: # 144 ballu

Yep - after Naqshabandi`s ``transformation`` - things are looking better for pakistan .... now can somebody do some transformation stuff on that freak YLH?... the guy is completely out of whack :))

Re: # 148

mohar11
``now can somebody do some transformation stuff on that freak YLH?... the guy is completely out of whack :))``

one at a time :)

#139 by Salim_Chauhan

Now, if, for the sake of keeping Indians in the dark, I have to shut up and not talk about the injustices being perpetrated by Pakistani government against its own citizens, then I would be the bigger fool.

Salim Bhai, before I came to Chowk, I thought Ostriches existed only in Africa. After reading Ahmakzai`s posts, I`m convinced that this species is thriving across the Radcliffe line. After nuclear know-how and terrorism, now Pakistan can make a killing out of exporting Ostriches.

141

The tragedy of Pakistan is that there are too many `pure` faithfuls who want to boast before others by recommending what caricatures and cartoons others should turn into ............may be some of Salim`s views remains Pakistan`s credible hope for a future which refuses to submit to some of the caricatures that these `pure` Pakistanis want them to submit to.........

Tahmed:

khudai de mal sha awo pa khair ossay wrora (tr. may God be
with you and may you live in peace o brother)

For a 24 year old, Salim will remain a mystery.

For one, he is too unflexible for his age group. I have tested him by getting into a debate with him on couple of occasions. He is so adamant about his viewpoint that if you press him a little more, he shows the tendency of going off track and turn nasty on you. A characteristic 24 year old shows lots of tendency to learn from others.

2nd, for a traveler he has a very guttery language and does not avoid throwing it to the females. Also, having spent almost all his life abroad (USA) and in traveling, he shows too much affinity with ``desi`` community and the corresponding knowledge base.

3rd, for a Pakistani appreciating arjun_m is a total give away. You may recall that once upon a time, GODOT used to write anti-Pakistani articles on Chowk. If you recall that I had thrashed him in early 2004 on writing such an article. Now look at Godot. After spending all that time on Chowk, he thrashes all the fundoo Indiots and has not posted a single anti-Pakistani post. I will give you my personal example. I had come on this website (in 2002) to see if I could post something against Punjabis. However, after going through the posts of Indiots at that time (which ranged from anti-Pakistan to anti-Islam to anti-Prophet, etc.) I quickly got diverted hahaha. What I am trying to say is that on this board, it is very difficult to be Pakistani and be posting anti-Pakistan messages for too long.

Finally, calling Punjabis as Panjus is surprising. Mohajirs call Punjabis as Punjaibies (meaning with 5 religious faults), Paindoos, Paindoo paas, Dhaggas, 60%, Chopayas, etc. Btw, Mohajirs call Pakhtuns `Akhrots` meaning walnut :-)

As to his point that he is out there pointing mistakes of Pakistan to Pakistanis then he is going for the wrong audience. I don`t think there is a single Pakistani on Chowk who is capable of changing anything that Salim wants to change. So in a sense, his buddy arjun_m and he are of the same class - humiliate those who are of Pakistani origin.

And if he calls himself Pakistani then perhaps you and I should start calling ourselves Indians and start posting all those reform India messages.

Here is my first message as an Indian: I think we Indians need to put our house in order first before pointing fingers at Pakistanis. We Indians should learn good things from them Pakistanis. We Indians should try to get united and not be embroiled with in freedom movements in northeast, Kashmir and other places. We Indians should not have treated Indian Punjabis so poorly that we slaughtered 40,000 of them in the 80s.

What is your opinion Tahmed jee?

Allah pa aman.

Re: # 141

akhmadzai:

``Here is my first message as an Indian:``

KawWaa chale Hans ki chaal .................

Re: # 141
[Here is my first message as an Indian: I think we Indians need to put our house in order first before pointing fingers at Pakistanis. We Indians should learn good things from them Pakistanis. We Indians should try to get united and not be embroiled with in freedom movements in northeast, Kashmir and other places. We Indians should not have treated Indian Punjabis so poorly that we slaughtered 40,000 of them in the 80s.]

Good one Ahmedzai
Now go put the boot on the other foot. No pot should call the kettle black.