UPDATE Delhi Explosion in Mosque
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#173, Majumadar Bhai,
LOL - thanks for clearing up the ``Punjoo`` word not being insulting.

Salimbhai,

What is offensive about the word Punjoo - in India we often refer to each others and ourselves as Punjus, Harrys (Biharis), Bongs, Gults (from AP), Maddus (Tamil), Gujjus, Malloos (Keralite) etc. in our daily lives and rarely have I seen anyone take offence at that.

(Furthermore, you could suggest settling the Biharis in Mr. Tahmed32`s living room. )

I am sure Tahmed sahib will permit all his friends and family, irrespective of ethnic background (and no one else) to settle in his living room.

Regards

majumdar #165, {``Plus I dont understand why the Biharis have to be settled in Karachi, they could be easily settled in Punjab, ``}

Majumdar Bhai,
Furthermore, you could suggest settling the Biharis in Mr. Tahmed32`s living room. Let`s be serious and not try to evade the issue by getting into irrational and illogical prerequisites - the issue is not where, but when. My friend, this travesty has been going on since 1971 - almost 35 years. Is there no shame in Pakistan? Indians, on the other hand, have been reaching out to ethnic Indians in Fiji, in Africa, in the West Indies, and NRIs all over the world. Then, people complain about why some Pakis think that India is better than Pakistan.

In India they say, ``Na nau man tel milega, na Radha nachegi.`` :)

Tahmed32 #161, and 162 {``Mr. Salim - the question of the ``stranded Pakistanis`` is a political issue , and by not considering them to have any case to being allowed into Pakistan does not make mean that I am slandering or ridiculing biharis.

On the other hand, your slanders and insults about non-muhajir pakistanis - towards us ``panjoos`` as you call us, or your put-down of Ahmedzai`s pathan background - are just that, i.e. ethnic slanders . There is no political issue that you are dealing with.

Mr. Salim: and i may add to #161 that using strong language (i.e. by calling me a hypocrite) is not a substitute for poor logic (i.e. equating views on political issues with ethnic slanders). ``}


Mr. Tahmed Sahib,
If you call the return of ``stranded`` Pakis a political issue, then please have the decency and logic to consider the Punjabi hegemony a political issue also. The word ``Punjoo`` is not of my creation, I believe I learned to use this abbreviation from Mr. Stuka, who happens to be a Punjabi himself. :) Mr. Ahmedzai is right - many Mohajirs use the word ``Punjaibi`` when they mean to be insulting.

Mr. Ahmedzai speculated over my wife being an Alawite and questioned my ethnic and national credentials (whether I am Indian or not). I think that by dismissing his nasty remarks with some ethnic humor about the use of niswar, my comments were not so bad, considering things within context.

As for your being a hypocrite, sir, I just have to reiterate your own words that you posted earlier - the ethnic slurs and obviously racist attitude is manifested in bold. :)

You had said:
{`` I used to be sympathetic to these biharis, but no more given the politics of ethnic hatred that their fellow biharis brought with them to Pakistan (similar to what, as discussed above, you have displayed). And contrary to your views, these biharis have no more ``right`` to come to Pakistan than the mexicans (who wrap themselves in the US flag, like the biharis wrap themselves in the Pakistan flag) have a ``right`` to come to the US. ``}

#165, majumdar {``I am sorry to see you linking the tragic earthquake to the fate of Biharis, were the poor Pakis who died in NWFP and POK responsible for what happened in B`desh.
Plus I dont understand why the Biharis have to be settled in Karachi, they could be easily settled in Punjab.``}

Majumdar Bhai,
First of all, I apologize for the insensitive remark that I made in anger linking Mr. Tahmed`s utter disdain for ``stranded Pakistanis`` with the so-called ``divine retribution`` that I associated with the recent earthquakes. I am truly sorry, because I really don`t think in that manner. However, Mr. Tahmed has made such a big deal (and correctly so) about the suffering of these earthquake victims. Then, displaying his true colors as a hypocrite and a part-time muslim mullah, he goes on to state that these ``biharis,`` as he calls the ``stranded`` Pakis in BD, don`t ``deserve`` to come to Pakistan. Furthermore, he extends his bigotry and racism toward the Mexicans in the US. I just wanted to give him a taste of his own snake oil and had no intention to hurt the feelings of earthquake victims or survivors. The man is a hypocrite and a fake and I have lost respect for him because of his callous animosity against these poor innocent victims of Paki stinginess.

Now, why would you want to settle the ``stranded`` Pakis from BD in Punjab? Judging from Mr. Tahmed`s racist jingoism, if he represents the views of a sizable portion of Punjab`s population, we would be just adding to these refugees` problems. Heck, if people in Punjab can`t tolerate their own Punjabi Ahmed ``brethren,`` who eat, speak, and live pretty much as the other Punjabis do, why would they welcome totally different people? Nowadays, being Muslim doesn`t count for much, except that being Ahmedi is worse in Pakistan. I say let the ``stranded`` Pakis from BD settle wherever they feel more comfortable and accepted.
Also, let me remind you, that by not letting these ``stranded`` Pakis come to Pakistan, you are sending a very sinister message to the approximately 15 million Mohajirs in Pakistan. You are telling them that the Government of Pakistan and the majority Punjabi population do not want to add to the number of Mohajirs in Pakistan. The message is ``we don`t like Mohajirs and we certainly don`t want to add to their numbers.`` Now, is that any way to instill loyalty and patriotism to otherwise nationalist Pakis? Think about it, gentlemen.

Tahmed32
I don`t think naming interactors of Pakistani origin who like to come on this site to air their views on Indian miseries is going to solve our basic problem. If I did that would lead to another spate of posts. Suffice to say that there are Pakistanis who derive some enjoyment from poking fun at Indian ideas, religions, people etc. Whether they are single issue or not is not the point. There are a sufficient number of posts.

My problem is I never quite understand the raison d`etre behind these things. It seems to me it`s mostly to act as a catalyst to arguments that are already heated.

I do not agree with Arjun_m. I do not agree with HP, Behram1, Faisaluno on many topics either. However Arjun i s not happy with the killing of innocent Muslims in Gujarat, and Behram1 was not happy with the bomb blasts at Varanasi.
I do hope India and Pakistan can live in peace someday. There is much more to gain in such a arrangement.

So I`ll say the pot and kettle are both grey. And perhaps a little detergent over all of us would help.

I hope I shall never crow over the deaths of innocent folks anywhere, or worse still say that they were punished by an (un)just God.

Now I must really read Mr Khan`s analysis of the Napoleonic wars. So I`m off. Good day.

majmudar sahib#165 I think you make excellent points both in the part addressed to Mr. Salim and the part addressed to me. I had missed Mr. Salim`s references to the earthquake tragedy as retribution for the evil Pakistanis not allowing biharis (sorry, ``stranded pakistanis``) to migrate to Pakistan, and I would probably not have brought it to his attention as gently as you did.

With respect to the part addressed to me, I agree that there is a long history of animosity between india and pakistan and so the entire onus cannot be placed on BJP (or indeed one country) alone. There are however a number of factors based on which I think this animosity will dissipate over time:

1. Political moves towards peace - We are all influenced to greater or lesser degrees by the state of india-pakistan relations, rather than trying to use our own brains. This is a common weakness, reflected in the following lines from W.H. Auden notes in ``The Unknown Citizen``:
Our researchers into Public Opinion are content
That he held the proper opinions for he time of year;
When there was peace, he was for peace; when there was war, he went.

So, when there is peace among the leaders, the followers will in due course change their tune as well.

2. Economic trends - money talks. the emerging global economy calls for greater interdependence rather than competition of the industrial age.

3. Social trends - there is increasing literacy and greater contact with the US where independence of individual thought is highly valued. This is bound to have more thinking people and fewer unthinking goats who find security in the ``herd mentality`` in the subcontinent.

The above is my thesis, at least. :-)

Re: 155

Salimbhai

(Pakistan was too mean-spirited to accept 250,000 Pakistanis, so an earthquake took away 70,000 innocent Pakistanis. Next time that earthquake needs to demolish Islamabad - the root of all evil. )

I am sorry to see you linking the tragic earthquake to the fate of Biharis, were the poor Pakis who died in NWFP and POK responsible for what happened in B`desh.

Plus I dont understand why the Biharis have to be settled in Karachi, they could be easily settled in Punjab, it has space and being a faster growing economy a greater need for additional manpower. Besides, Punjab has a population of 80 million plus, so a quarter million Biharis would hardly tip the demographic balance.

Tahmed sahib

(and perhaps this animosity will dissipate once a new generation is brought up in India that was clearly not raised on this hate-Pakistan ideology of BJP. )

I am also for peace b/w India and Pak. But I think the animosity is far too deep rooted and cannot be blamed on BJP alone. BJP was nowhere in the picture in the 1965, 1971 wars or when Zia started cross-border terrorism in Punjab.

Regards

#160 by tahmed32 on April 18, 2006 4:20pm PT


the spite and hatred that is demonstrated towards Pakistan by too many Indians on chowk and which is clearly one-sided.


prophet tahmed(peace be unto your self-righteous rear)...I bet you love the smell of your own farts....

Re: # 163

Reminds me of the ``Smog`` episode in ``South park``.... Closet Mullah 32 just loves the smell of his own f@r!t..... :))

#156 Mr. Salim: and i may add to #161 that using strong language (i.e. by calling me a hypocrite) is not a substitute for poor logic (i.e. equating views on political issues with ethnic slanders).

#156 Mr. Salim - the question of the ``stranded Pakistanis`` is a political issue , and by not considering them to have any case to being allowed into Pakistan does not make mean that I am slandering or ridiculing biharis.

On the other hand, your slanders and insults about non-muhajir pakistanis - towards us ``panjoos`` as you call us, or your put-down of Ahmedzai`s pathan background - are just that, i.e. ethnic slanders . There is no political issue that you are dealing with.

I think you are an intelligent person and can tell the difference between the two.

#157 swarrier: Your point about ignoring such posters is of course reasonable. However, it is also not unreasonable to point out -as I did below and in the past on chowk - the spite and hatred that is demonstrated towards Pakistan by too many Indians on chowk and which is clearly one-sided. And I dont say this with any joy, since I consider good relations between the two countries to be significant to the well-being and prosperity of Pakistan - and perhaps this animosity will dissipate once a new generation is brought up in India that was clearly not raised on this hate-Pakistan ideology of BJP.

#157 swarrier: I wrote some very specific things in my response to you. Please address those rather than making sweeping generalizations to seek parity in these single-minded obsessions when there is none: chowk provides ample indication that Pakistanis on chowk are far less concerned about India than vice versa. Arjun #158 has even was good enough to illustrate my point with another one of his standard cut and pastes. :-)

this is what you get for playing with the islamic fundamentalist fire..

on a related note: i`m sure the foreign investors let out a sigh of relief knowing that the suicide bombing was sectarian..

Nishtar Park bombing was sectarian

KARACHI: President Pervez Musharraf assured foreign investors on Monday night that the April 11 Nishtar Park suicide bombing was a sectarian attack, implying that the carnage in which over 50 people were killed, had no links with the present-day wave of terrorism that has been sweeping the world since 9/11.

He said this while addressing an annual dinner of the Overseas Investors’ Chamber of Commerce and Industry at the Karachi Golf Club on Monday evening.

The president assured foreign investors of the security of their capital, saying that the government had formed a strategy to confront terrorism and extremism which had yielded “encouraging results”. Pakistan is undergoing a “societal transformation” with improvement in law and order, he said.

#153, Mr. Tahmed Sahib, {``It is a well known fact that individuals who stereotype other groups (whether based on ethnicity, or religion or nationality) do so in an attempt to cover-up their own inadequacies and feelings of inferiority.``}

Mr. Tahmed, Sir,
While you did not directly address me, I think I understood your thinly-disguised message to Ahmadzai Sahib. So, when you stereotyped all Biharis (and Mexicans for good measure), as you did in your post #129, you were displaying your own inadequacy and feeling of inferiority?

You had said:
{`` I used to be sympathetic to these biharis, but no more given the politics of ethnic hatred that their fellow biharis brought with them to Pakistan (similar to what, as discussed above, you have displayed). And contrary to your views, these biharis have no more ``right`` to come to Pakistan than the mexicans (who wrap themselves in the US flag, like the biharis wrap themselves in the Pakistan flag) have a ``right`` to come to the US. ``}

Mr. Tahmed Sahib,
That is my complaint against you. You issue far-reaching sweeping sermons that conflict with your earlier pontifications, thus rendering you a hopeless idiotic hypocrite. Of course, I could demolish your irrational thesis in post #129, but then that would be further proof of your lack of comprehension. You sound like a redneck as far your bigotry is concerned, but I bet you still speak English with a Pindi accent.

Aw, never mind, let me teach you a lesson. Sir, the Mexicans owned the western part of the United Sates - CA, NV, AZ, NM, TX, CO, and possibly all the way to Oregon. This territory was forcibly taken from them in 1848. Mexicans have been living in these areas long before your great great grandfather was shining Maharaja Ranjit Singh`s shoes in Punjab. Now, the Biharis did not migrate to Bangladesh, they migrated to Pakistan and were loyal citizens of Pakistan. To deny them access to their own country, simply because they would upset the demographic balance in Sind, is the height of bigotry, racism, perfidy, and insincerity. Is it any wonder that God balances things out in the long run? Pakistan was too mean-spirited to accept 250,000 Pakistanis, so an earthquake took away 70,000 innocent Pakistanis. Next time that earthquake needs to demolish Islamabad - the root of all evil.

swarrier #146 Very good point. Rest assured that your fellow countrymen need to understand this point much far, far more than Pakistanis. And certainly Ahmedzai - as his contributions on diverse issues to chowk indicate - hardly needs this lesson from you. Go tell it to your fellow countrymen like arjun and ajeya and harimau and countless others who have written nothing on chowk other than about problems with muslims and/or Pakistan. You wont find a Pakistani equivalent to these single-issue characters from India.

Re: # 155
Dear Tahmed
That is precisely my point. The pot and kettle are both black. I`ve not been on chowk long enough, but I`ve seen the same sort of folks on both sides. Some are frontal in their assault, others take a tortuous route but the net result is still the same. You are a Pakistani and you say more Indians are scum, some Indians would say the same about Pakistanis. You (not necessarily you) make fun of Hindus , Hindus make fun of Muslims.

All of this adds fuel to the fire and right now I`m as guilty of it as anybody else. So suppose we ignore the ones who make a noise completely.

All of us know, or at least are supposed to know , that as people, countries, religions we are not perfect. If we were we wouldn`t have the issues we do. If anybody lives under the illusion that they are the blessed ones well then, they should seriously be seeing a shrink.

End of rant.

May the force be with everybody. -)

#153 second para, line saying ``I am concerned about further details on these individuals -`` should read ``I am not concerned about further details on these individuals -``

Ahmedzai #141 dhaera mehrabaani, ahmedzai saeb, for the good wishes. As you may have noticed, my vocabulary of pashto (which was quite limited to begin with) has indeed suffered due to years of absence from Pakistan, so I am glad to provided the translation.

It is a well known fact that individuals who stereotype other groups (whether based on ethnicity, or religion or nationality) do so in an attempt to cover-up their own inadequacies and feelings of inferiority. So, I am concerned about further details on these individuals - i.e. whether they are what they claim to be or not. Since the overriding fact is that by stereotyping and abusing, such an individual has already indicated what he basically is, namely that he is a loser suffering from complexes. A few individuals (all Indians trying to pose as Pakistanis, like the stink-bomb ``khalid ahmed`` or ``mullah shamsul``) have tried this, and are quickly spotted anyway because they are too stupid to keep up the act for too long. But by and large, it is easy enough to spot an Indian posing as a Pakistani.

As for your question about the message to Indians - I dont think our telling them to worry about their own problems is going to change them. Nor does it matter what they write on chowk - in a way it is good, since it opens the eyes of many Pakistanis who come to chowk to the reality of how much spite and hatred there exists in India (in addition to the goodwill that many Indian chowkies also demonstrate). This is the reality one would not know otherwise. So, when an Indian like ranjit mocks people dying in earthquakes, or an Indian like arjun who has been wetting his lungi with delight over the past few years at the joy of seeing the real life misery of Pakistanis who were deported after 9/11 - all this is very edudcational. Since one would not believe such characters actually exist in real life.

ballukhan #142, #144 and harish_hyd #143,

Gentlemen,
I think that the most important person to convince is the one we shave every morning. If I can`t believe in partition, in the obscure unity of Muslims, in the use of force to convince people in matters of faith and loyalty, in the application of intolerance for consensus, and the selective use of human rights when it suits us, then how can I debate effectively in the defense of what I can`t believe?

This should apply to all of us. Emotions and jingoism aside, there is usually a right path and a wrong one - things are really more black and white than we think. Partition was wrong. Gujarat was wrong. Terrorism is wrong. War is wrong. Life is right. Death is wrong. Tolerance is right. Intolerance is wrong.

harish_hyd #145, {``This is what I`ve found most intriguing. While many people (Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs included) sacrificed their lives and limbs for the freedom struggle, none of the ML leaders, including the greatest of them all, Jinnah ever went to jail``}

Harry Bhai,

This is one among many damaging points about the sincerity and honesty of the Muslim League leaders concerning their vision, their commitment to independence, and their struggle against colonialism. Personally, I think that they were used by the British to keep the Congress off balance. Once their usefulness was depleted, they were discarded - much like Mushy and Pakistan today.

#141, Ahmadzai {``What I am trying to say is that on this board, it is very difficult to be Pakistani and be posting anti-Pakistan messages for too long. ``}

Khan Sahib,
I had heard that Niswaar is not good for you. Now I am sure that it causes brain damage. :)

#139 by Salim_Chauhan

I am sorry to note that while many Muslims languished in British jails, the leaders of the Muslim League were not among these patriots. Several times during WWII, these League guys collaborated with the British.

This is what I`ve found most intriguing. While many people (Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs included) sacrificed their lives and limbs for the freedom struggle, none of the ML leaders, including the greatest of them all, Jinnah ever went to jail. Instead, they exhorted Muslims to shed their blood and that of their enemies without any qualms.

First Barachota transforming into Salim and now Naqshbandi..............only the youth represent the future of a vibrant Pakistan which can change and adopt to the modernity............rest of the old hags are useless..........

Re: # 144 ballu

Yep - after Naqshabandi`s ``transformation`` - things are looking better for pakistan .... now can somebody do some transformation stuff on that freak YLH?... the guy is completely out of whack :))

Re: # 148

mohar11
``now can somebody do some transformation stuff on that freak YLH?... the guy is completely out of whack :))``

one at a time :)

#139 by Salim_Chauhan

Now, if, for the sake of keeping Indians in the dark, I have to shut up and not talk about the injustices being perpetrated by Pakistani government against its own citizens, then I would be the bigger fool.

Salim Bhai, before I came to Chowk, I thought Ostriches existed only in Africa. After reading Ahmakzai`s posts, I`m convinced that this species is thriving across the Radcliffe line. After nuclear know-how and terrorism, now Pakistan can make a killing out of exporting Ostriches.

141

The tragedy of Pakistan is that there are too many `pure` faithfuls who want to boast before others by recommending what caricatures and cartoons others should turn into ............may be some of Salim`s views remains Pakistan`s credible hope for a future which refuses to submit to some of the caricatures that these `pure` Pakistanis want them to submit to.........

Tahmed:

khudai de mal sha awo pa khair ossay wrora (tr. may God be
with you and may you live in peace o brother)

For a 24 year old, Salim will remain a mystery.

For one, he is too unflexible for his age group. I have tested him by getting into a debate with him on couple of occasions. He is so adamant about his viewpoint that if you press him a little more, he shows the tendency of going off track and turn nasty on you. A characteristic 24 year old shows lots of tendency to learn from others.

2nd, for a traveler he has a very guttery language and does not avoid throwing it to the females. Also, having spent almost all his life abroad (USA) and in traveling, he shows too much affinity with ``desi`` community and the corresponding knowledge base.

3rd, for a Pakistani appreciating arjun_m is a total give away. You may recall that once upon a time, GODOT used to write anti-Pakistani articles on Chowk. If you recall that I had thrashed him in early 2004 on writing such an article. Now look at Godot. After spending all that time on Chowk, he thrashes all the fundoo Indiots and has not posted a single anti-Pakistani post. I will give you my personal example. I had come on this website (in 2002) to see if I could post something against Punjabis. However, after going through the posts of Indiots at that time (which ranged from anti-Pakistan to anti-Islam to anti-Prophet, etc.) I quickly got diverted hahaha. What I am trying to say is that on this board, it is very difficult to be Pakistani and be posting anti-Pakistan messages for too long.

Finally, calling Punjabis as Panjus is surprising. Mohajirs call Punjabis as Punjaibies (meaning with 5 religious faults), Paindoos, Paindoo paas, Dhaggas, 60%, Chopayas, etc. Btw, Mohajirs call Pakhtuns `Akhrots` meaning walnut :-)

As to his point that he is out there pointing mistakes of Pakistan to Pakistanis then he is going for the wrong audience. I don`t think there is a single Pakistani on Chowk who is capable of changing anything that Salim wants to change. So in a sense, his buddy arjun_m and he are of the same class - humiliate those who are of Pakistani origin.

And if he calls himself Pakistani then perhaps you and I should start calling ourselves Indians and start posting all those reform India messages.

Here is my first message as an Indian: I think we Indians need to put our house in order first before pointing fingers at Pakistanis. We Indians should learn good things from them Pakistanis. We Indians should try to get united and not be embroiled with in freedom movements in northeast, Kashmir and other places. We Indians should not have treated Indian Punjabis so poorly that we slaughtered 40,000 of them in the 80s.

What is your opinion Tahmed jee?

Allah pa aman.

Re: # 141

akhmadzai:

``Here is my first message as an Indian:``

KawWaa chale Hans ki chaal .................

Re: # 141
[Here is my first message as an Indian: I think we Indians need to put our house in order first before pointing fingers at Pakistanis. We Indians should learn good things from them Pakistanis. We Indians should try to get united and not be embroiled with in freedom movements in northeast, Kashmir and other places. We Indians should not have treated Indian Punjabis so poorly that we slaughtered 40,000 of them in the 80s.]

Good one Ahmedzai
Now go put the boot on the other foot. No pot should call the kettle black.

Hasanmahmood #131 {``when the only reason why they are even calling India their own is because of the sacrifices that we made for them in our fght against the British rule. ...So maybe these people who are hurling insults at you think of you as just another hindu heen wala.``}

Hasan Bhai,
Thank you for understanding why I raise the points that I do. My issue is not a mud-slinging contest between Indians and Pakistanis to determine who smells worse or who can throw the most mud. My interest is in solving problems together so that the sacrifices we made together in encouraging the British to leave are not wasted. I am sorry to note that while many Muslims languished in British jails, the leaders of the Muslim League were not among these patriots. Several times during WWII, these League guys collaborated with the British.

Now, if, for the sake of keeping Indians in the dark, I have to shut up and not talk about the injustices being perpetrated by Pakistani government against its own citizens, then I would be the bigger fool. If you ignore cancer in your own body just to keep the opponents ``fooled,`` then guess what?

By the way, I hope you notice that there is more respect for each other, tolerance for variety of views, and pride in citizenship among Indians than there is among Pakistanis. I wonder why?

arjun_m

``tell me..are we to assume that it`s not out of the ordinary for a muslim person to kill a non-muslim person for allah?

How many hindus has killed (suicide bomb) their fellow hindus or in INDIAs case, how many hindus has targeted other religion in the name of RAM??? Well the answer is many but i want to hear from you.

Re: # 138
Discovery has discovered the following:
>How many hindus has killed (suicide bomb) their fellow hindus or in INDIAs case, how
> many hindus has targeted other religion in the name of RAM??? Well the answer is many
> but i want to hear from you.

sir ji - hamen bhi batayen.... I m not aware of any cases recorded of ``Hindu`` suicide
bombers. [The one thing that I like bout chowk is the sheer amount of things I found about
Islam, its prophets and the general way pukis think... ]
Coming back to the point you raised -I am only aware of the LTTE that gave some kind of
organisational support to suicide bombings - but even these are now fallen in disuse. Also,
LTTE does not have any record of religion inspired attacks (If it helps you - there are
christians in LTTE !).
As for the killings in the name of the Prince of Ayodhya, are you referring to the riots that
happen periodically ? It is useless to go any further because your viewpoint is not going
to change. Still - if it helps you, think about this. There have been riots now in many
places of the free world; India, England, France, Thailand, Australia and some places in
Nordic countries. Guess what is common in all these places.

Re: # 164wiseguyin
>>>>>India, England, France, Thailand, Australia and some places in
Nordic countries. Guess what is common in all these places<<<

Nice point. What else, religion of peace. (Peace Be Upon Them!).

Watching the Paris riots on TV, the thought crossed my mind that
India`s situation is probably more secure than that of a western democracy,
a permanent member of security council.

#136, Mr. Tahmed Sahib,
How quickly you descend into the realm of personal insults! Sir, there are several other ladies, both Indian and Pakistani, that I get along very well with - Zeena, Aman, Jawahara, just to mention a few. I have issues with hypocrites regardless of gender. I have noticed that you, on occasion, have been less than polite and not in control of your better judgment, when responding to anjum_m, who happens to be an extremely polite interactor.

Regardless, my issue with you is neither personal nor ideological. I have accumulated a level of contempt for your racist, bigoted, hypocritical attitude about which Pakistanis you are willing to let back into Pakistan, while you selflessly and courageously serve the interests of Pakistan from your exile in comfort and safety in the United States. Have a nice day and if you do not complain about my viewpoints, I will let you pontificate yours. Live and let live. There is no law that says I can`t criticize Pakistan for its shortcomings.

#134 Mr. Salim - ``No sir, you did not directly insult my wife or family. ``

That means I indirectly insulted them. If there was any truth to this, you would have cut and paste what I wrote. So you are faking it.

As for this ``composite complaint`` accusing Pakistanis of lacking manners based on your exchanges of insults with people on unplugged - give me a break. I notice that 4 out of the 6 posters on unplugged you mention are women. And I have read the lewd remarks about these women that you write with a view to provoking them which some of them foolishly do while others try to ignore you. So if anyone lacks manners of civilized behavior it is you.

As for the other two - Atif and Khamkhwa - I agree they launch into personal insults and (in case of khamkhwa) are in the same league as you in the sense of baiting women on chowk with lewd remarks. But to make them the basis of your ``composite complaint`` accusing Pakistanis of uncivilized behavior simply illustrates what I wrote in #131 about your capacity to put on the clothes of a victim when in fact it is you who is the perpetrator.

As for the ``stranded Pakistanis`` and other issues i have already made my views clear in #129 and you are welcome to your views as you now express them, ignoring what I said.

Tahmed Sahib #133, and Hasanmahmood Sahib #131,

They can call me what they want. I will continue to speak out for the oppressed, the weak, those without a voice, and those who have been run over by the strong, the greedy, and the bigoted.

Yes, I am a Bihari when it comes to stranded Pakistanis in Bangladesh. (T)
Yes, I am an Ahmedi when it comes to persecuted Ahmedis in Pakistan.(T)
Yes, I am a Shia when it comes to suffering Shias in Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and Iraq (T)
Yes, I am a low-caste Hindu when it comes to Dalits suffering in India
Yes, I am a Kshatrya Hindu when it comes to minority Hindus suffering in Pakistan or Bangladesh or when Hindus can`t have their temple in Saudi Arabia.
Yes, I am a Sikh when it comes to discrimination against them because they look ``Muslim,`` or when their religion is under threat in India or their property and lives were taken during Partition. (T)

Yes, I am a Bihari Qadiani Hindu Shiah Sikh Dalit and proud of it.

Re: # 135
>>Yes, I am a Bihari when it comes to stranded Pakistanis in Bangladesh. (T)
Yes, I am an Ahmedi when it comes to persecuted Ahmedis in Pakistan.(T)
Yes, I am a Shia when it comes to suffering Shias in Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and Iraq (T)
Yes, I am a low-caste Hindu when it comes to Dalits suffering in India
Yes, I am a Kshatrya Hindu when it comes to minority Hindus suffering in Pakistan or Bangladesh or when Hindus can`t have their temple in Saudi Arabia.
Yes, I am a Sikh when it comes to discrimination against them because they look ``Muslim,`` or when their religion is under threat in India or their property and lives were taken during Partition. (T) <<<<<<<<<<


Well said Salim Bhai. Aaap hamara dhosth hain.

#129, Tahmed Sahib,
No sir, you did not directly insult my wife or family. My post #128 was addressed to both you and Ahmadzai Sahib. In that post I did list several Pakistani interactors who have been very abusive personally against me, my wife, my mother, my father, and my sister-in-law. These people include Atif2, Khamkhwa, Scout, Succubus, Sobia, and Saminasha. So, sir in this composite complaint I was listing several people responsible for my disappointment with Pakistani sense of manners and civilized behavior.

Now, let`s turn to your stubborn insistence that the ``stranded Pakistanis`` in Bangladesh have no right to return to Pakistan. Unlike the Mexicans you compared them to, these people were and are Pakistani citizens. They paid dearly with blood, property, and suffering for having supported Pakistan and collaborating with the Pakistani Army - the cowards who surrendered to friendly fellow-Punjabi Sikhs to save their own hides and abandoning their ``Bihari`` cohorts to the arbitray justice and cruel treatment meted out by the victorious Mukti Bahini. Your ridicule of their suffering is the primary reason for my being upset with your bigotry and racism. Sir, the very Indians that you accuse of all sorts of depravity, always welcome their own - even those who migrated to Fiji and Guyana several generations ago. I, as someone only partially of Hindu blood, am always welcomed with warmth and hospitality in India, despite my Muslim first name and Pakistani connections.

Yes, my grandfather, as millions of Muslims from India, did migrate to Pakistan in 1947. His religious zeal and youthful patriotism were soon foiled by the bigotry, racism, and intolerance of the ``sons of the soil.`` Can I help it if our Punjabi ``brethren`` excel in alienating otherwise patriotic Pakistanis - Bengalis, Sindis, Mohajirs, Baluchis, Pathans, Kashmiris/Gligitis/Baltistanis?

Sir, please read the last paragraph of your post #129 and try to understand why this racist and hypocritical attitude dilutes the confidence of Pakistanis who happen to be minorities.

#131 Please read my response (#129) to Mr. Salim`s post before rushing to judgement on who is insulting whom. Mr. Salim has a great capacity to make himself seem the victim of insults when in fact it is who has been indulging in uncalled for insults on Pakistanis and other ethnic groups in Pakistan.

majumdar #127 the number of people on chowk hasnt grown very much in the past 7 years I have been here. that is what I was referring to. if chowk staff respected their own guidelines and cut out these gratuitous slurs based on nationality, ethnicity or religion - then chowk would be a place where we could invite friends and colleagues and relatives to participate, and chowk membership could have grown both in terms of numbers as well as the quality of discussions and articles.

That is what I meant.

MR. Salim: Please dont accuse me of things I didnt write. Where did I attack your wife, for example? I did raise an issue about the type of upbringing you received given your habit of making gratuitous and insulting remarks about ``panjoos``. If you translate that to mean an ``attack on your father``, rather than a ``reflection on your upbringing`` then obviously there is no point in trying to bring anything to your attention since you are not willing to listen.

Nor have I labelled you an Indian, as you indicate. It is Ahmedzai who was speculating on your nationality given your uncalled for ridicule of Pakistanis. You may wish to explain to him why you hate non-muhajir Pakistanis even though your parents preferred Pakistan to India in 1947, but dont raise this question with me. I really dont care why you hate Pakistanis and us ``panjoos``.

As for the ``stranded Pakistanis`` you keep bringing up: Hindus and sikhs who had to leave their homes in 1947 have a right to come to Pakistan because of this injustice, and I have spoken out on this issue on chowk. Biharis on the other hand, for whom Pakistan has never been an ancestral home obviously have only one reason to come to Pakistan, namely economic betterment. I used to be sympathetic to these biharis, but no more given the politics of ethnic hatred that their fellow biharis brought with them to Pakistan (similar to what, as discussed above, you have displayed). And contrary to your views, these biharis have no more ``right`` to come to Pakistan than the mexicans (who wrap themselves in the US flag, like the biharis wrap themselves in the Pakistan flag) have a ``right`` to come to the US.

Mr. Tahmed Sahib and Ahmadzai Sahib,
It is very easy to label a fellow Pakistani as an Indian when you have to hear some bitter truths and need to dismiss them rapidly without wasting any soul-searching. Instead of looking for ethnic/national IDs, you should dwell on the issues raised by me. Simply assuming that, because I speak out against the policies of Pakistan’s ruling majority, I must be an Indian Hindu masquerading as a Muslim, or worse, an Indian Muslim masquerading as a Pakistani, is not going to solve the real issues that really exist. Attacking my family, my wife, my mother, and my father is not going to salvage what is left of Pakistan. Raising questions and providing your own answers about my domicile, my ethnicity, my international travel, and my wife’s religious affiliation (She must be an Alawite!) are not going to eradicate the numerous problems that exist in Pakistan thanks to the hegemony of the ruling majority.

May I remind you that at one time (circa 1970), Bengalis were patriotic Pakistanis, but no more? Today, Punjab is at war with Baluchistan, NWFP, and even with Gilgit/Baltistan. The slaughter of Mohajirs in Karachi and Hyderabad has been temporarily halted due to Mushy`s regime. Sindhis are not welcome as equal partners by the ruling elite. Who knows what will happen if the Saraikis start insisting about their inalienable rights in southern Punjab?

Forsaking your own people in Bangladesh and then calling them ``stranded Biharis,`` while trivializing their ordeal and ridiculing their suffering, is not going to instill confidence in Pakistani citizenship. Mr. Tahmed, please don`t joke about these ``stranded`` Pakistanis and then expect people to sincerely mourn the earthquake victims, who in your opinion are more deserving of sympathy. Is it because they happen to be ethnically closer to you? Please don’t tag people to wish away the truth. Also, please don’t take people’s patriotism for granted permanently. You have a unique way of turning many people from Mujib to Bangabandhu.

Your intolerance against minorities and those who disagree with you is the catalyst for the downfall and disintegration of Pakistan. People like arjun-m are merely trying, in their own polite way, to remind Pakistan of its promises, its sins, and its lost vision. I will be more than happy, for the sake of Pakistan and its unfortunate citizens, to take up his mission, should he depart, move on, or, khuda na khwasta, meet a truck not of his choosing. :)

In the future, while you and your countrymen use personal insults against my family and me to thwart my efforts, I will engage in a polite, civilized, and sincere manner to expose the hypocrisy exhibited by Pakistan and its ruling majority.

Re: # 128
Salim, I read your answer and being a Pakistani I agree whole-heartedly with the points you are making. However, on chowk, there are many Hindus or Heeng-walas as we like to call them who have the audacity to hurl insults at Pakistan when the only reason why they are even calling India their own is because of the sacrifices that we made for them in our fght against the British rule. Do you really think that Gandhi alone would have been able to take India. When we hear these people actually talking about how good India is it, it reminds us of the child sacrifices, the satis, the poverty, and the dirtiness of India and we laugh. We are not goras who ll of a sudden love the hari raam hari krishna life style of these idiots. We all know too well, who these people are and why they will always be third rate people in this world.
So maybe these people who are hurling insults at you think of you as just another hindu heen wala.

Re: # 5
dear nb...thank you for your comments. While we practice psychotherapy we learn from

our patients so that we have a better understab=nding of human suffering and find ways

to help them. I only share personal stories of patients when they give me their blessing

otherwise it is discussed in genral terms. I am glad you are exploring your passion and you

have a superviser to guide you. I really enjoyed my student life at Memorial University

though it seems a long time ago now. sincerely sohail

Tahmed sahib,

(Mr. Kumar #98 Finally....I am glad some Indian finally spoke up (in addition to swarrier, that is). It is too easy for empty minds with nothing to write about other than ridicule and abuse to other communities that have no doubt kept chowk from growing beyond where it is today (which of course violates chowk guidelines, I may add).

You are completely wrong. If chowk can grown so big, it is becuase Hindians and Pakis, hanuds and Muslas find chowk a convenient place to hurl abuses on each other.

Regards

#123 Tahmed Sahib,
I find it disappointing that you are disappointed in my ridiculing of Pakistanis. As a former fellow ``Paki tiger`` I hope you understand the transformation of barachota from famed injun fighter to punjoo hunter. When you have Pakis like Atif2, Khamkhwa, Scout, Saminasha, Succubus, and Sobia, it is easy to ``switch`` sides and feel good about the change. The intolerance and bigotry rampant among Pakis, especially against minorities like Shias, Mohajirs, Ahmedis, Hindus, Christians, and Sikhs, and even Baluchis, Sindhis, and Kashmiris is not only suicidal but also inhumane and just wrong.

I find our Indian neighbors to be much more tolerant, friendlier, and welcoming of people with differing points of view. I am now studying under the famous expert in Paki affairs, Mr. Arjun, to take up the mantle of truth should anything happen to him.

Thanks for your kind words.

#122, ahmadzai, {``Salim:
Namustay, namooskaar.
And Dhunnaywaad.
Btw, I hope you visited France and returned during your last two posts. ``}

Khoocha Ahmadzai Salaam ba Shoma,
Namastey to you too,
Sir, I have been to France several times already, but since you mentioned it - I will be in Italy during May. I hope that I have your permission. Khan Sahib :)
Yes, I love to travel and have managed to travel quite a bit in my lifetime. I hope to travel even more as I get older. Some have time, some have just the desire, others have the time, the desire, and the funds.

#120 by discoverer on April 16, 2006 7:27am PT


Could any one tell me How can a person (a muslim person) kill some one ( other muslim believers) for the cause of Allah.


There you have it...Reductio ad ReligionOfPeaceum...we all know muslims could never kill other muslims..ergo the killers are non-muslim...

tell me..are we to assume that it`s not out of the ordinary for a muslim person to kill a non-muslim person for allah?

pakher raghalay thay, ahmadzai saayb: Good to see you on chowk. Mr. Salim is no doubt flattered to be greeted with a namastey. Hell, all he has to do is give three curses to Pakistanis in general, and one to a selected ethnic group in Pakistan - and he is assured a safe passage the rest of the day on chowk. :-)

PS: The above is for you too Mr. Salim. I dont mind fair criticism of Pakistan - but your ridicule of Pakistanis and of selected ethnic groups who are not muhajirs (``punjus`` as you call us panjabis, which tells me a bit about what your parents taught you at home, or pathans as you just alluded to in case of ahmadzai). Such good sense of humor and such poor self-image that you try to overcome at the expense of other people. Sad.

Salim:

Namustay, namooskaar.

And Dhunnaywaad.

Btw, I hope you visited France and returned during your last two posts.

;-)

#114 Ahmadzai, {``I believe that he is an Indian posing as Pakistani. Sorry, wrong English. I believe he is an Indian, but posts a few anti-Indian messages (of no sincere depth in them) here and there that befools us into thinking he is of Pakistani origin. ``}

Ahmadzai Sahib,
Correcto Mundo. With this type of detective work and brilliant deductions, one can safely assume that you are a noble Pathan. Ghol Makhora. :)

First of all let me make it clear, it is however true that MUSLIMs` nowaday are just playing silly all over the world. But we should all see where`s the difference, shias, sunnis were there even at the time of Mogul, Ottomans and Sulmania Empire but they never faught or killed any one. Suicide Bombers first originated from Japan known as Kamikaze.

Could any one tell me How can a person (a muslim person) kill some one ( other muslim believers) for the cause of Allah. As i see it, there were many incident in history where an israeli agency mosad made a prisoner to wear a bomb and made him to enter some leaders house to blow himself up, the condition put up by mosad was simple, do it or we`ll kill your family.

We should take lesson from history not repeat history, this is what happening in muslim countries. Trust me the bombers are some poor soul and i can even dare imagine the reason behind it.

There is a petition put up in self-publish for rehabilitating earthquake victims. Some of you might like to take a look and interact/do something:

http://www.chowk.com/show_article.cgi?aid=00006535&channel=self

Thanks

What is the common factor between Iraq and Pakistan? Suicide bombings. What kind of ideology propagates acts of mass killings? Extremists. Extremists can be in any form or shape, religious or non-religious. In the case of Pakistan, its a classic case of you reap what you sow, or what goes around comes around. Muslims are on the defensive politically, socially and culturally. Resistence to the attack is being led by extremists who have no respect of life or creation, most unfortunate part of this entire episode is the abject silence of the peace loving majority. Shia-Sunni sectarian riots, now we may have Sunni-Wahabi confrontation, fact is Mulsims are under attack from within and outside. This is just the begining, more is to come......

#113 by swarrier

....So perhaps there is no purpose, but one can hope for something good, something decent somewhere, sometime.....

Sure why not. As W. Somerset Maugham said in his `Summing Up` i.e. ``There`s only one thing about which I can be certain, that there is nothing about which one can be certain.

``Da`yem abaad rahey gi dunya;
Hum na honge`, koi hum sa ho gaa.``

(The world will always remain. I won`t be there but someone like me will.)

Recommended reading : `Aag Ka Darya` - Qurutul-Ain-Haider.

#100 AhmedMadani Sahib

I can understand your ``protective`` spirit (being the father of two (young) daughters myself.)

But I must bring to your attention a fact I mentioned earlier to you (on another board) - it is this spirit of ``protection`` which has caused so many of the problems in the subcontinent. The best one can do for one`s children is to enable them to think on their own rather than filling up their minds with pre-conceived notions.

You should perhaps reconsider your wholesale stereotyping of poets based on the few that you may have observed. Some of the best works of literature were not prose - take Shakespeare for example - or Rabindranath Tagore, to name a few. (I put a few additional thoughts on this issue on Mr. Ozer Khalid`s board a few days ago.)

When I wish to understand how a writer wishes to project himself/herself, I read his/her articles - when I wish to know the personality of an individual, I read their poems, if available.

Consuming enormous amounts of tea is a subcontinental specialty - not limited to any particular occupation. In fact, in the USA, most people (but not desis) take their tea without sugar.

I agree that poetry can not be the sole basis for an occupation! But I also firmly believe that interspersing a few stanzas of poetry in between those calculus lessons will surely cheer up your student body immensely and spark their interest like never before!

Dr. Gill may be in a position to provide additional advice on this issue!

#99 (Netizen)

``worry about the ``intellects`` like arjun singh, if he has his way narayan murthy/ratan tata would be running to china as fast as possible.....``

That`s the tragedy of Indian politics. Small minds holding big offices. We have a saying in Kannada which roughly translates to ``What would a monkey know about a mangalsutra``. It applies aptly to people like Arjun Singh.

News is that Devyani Rana (of the Nepal royal family massacre fame) is going to marry into Arjun Singh`s family. Perhaps we can induce her to go postal on her future in-laws. I`ll supply the milk if someone supplies the bhang.

tahmed # 48:

Salamoona.

Please be very respectful of Salim Chauhan. He is a learned man of 24 years of age, educated in America, claims to be living in Turkey, married to a Shia Turkish woman (this could be an Alavi), but on the basis of the number of his posts on the Chowk (about 100 per day), one can safely assume he resides on Chowk. On top of it, between all those posts he posts on Chowk every day, he has found time to travel to those 220 countries (read his intro page).

I believe that he is an Indian posing as Pakistani. Sorry, wrong English. I believe he is an Indian, but posts a few anti-Indian messages (of no sincere depth in them) here and there that befools us into thinking he is of Pakistani origin.

;-)

# 71
Zeemax, looking at the events of the last few days, yes I do see what you mean.

However at the end of the essay Camus writes this..

`` During the day the hall is protected by sloping wooden awnings. When the sun goes down they are raised. Then the hall is filled with an odd green light born of the double shell of the sky and the sea. When one is seated far from the windows, one sees only the sky and silhouetted against it, the faces of the dancers passing in succession. Sometimes a waltz is being played and , against the green background , the black profiles whirl obstinately like those cut-out silhouettes that are attached to a phonograph turntable. Night comes rapidly after this and with it the lights. But I am unable to relate the thrill and secrecy that subtle instant holds for me. ``

And further about a girl he had seen dancing ....

``When evening came, I could no longer see her body pressed tight to her partner, but against the sky whirled alternating spots of white jasmine and black hair and when she would throw back her swelling breast , I would hear her laugh and see her partner`s profile suddenly plunge forward. I owe to such evenings the idea I have of innocence. In any case I learn not to separate these creatures bursting with violent energy from the sky where their desires whirl.``

So perhaps there is no purpose, but one can hope for something good, something decent somewhere, sometime.

Witness the impotent rage of pakis like cab driver HP and El-Presidente..The Americans are getting ready to bomb the Islamist nuts on Pakistani soil..Bajaur was just an appetizer..

US forces are getting targetting Pakiland and pakis have wet dreams of holding the cards in AFghanistan..

there`s deluded..and there`s paki deluded

How the North-West can be won?

Are the Americans poised to go the whole distance in their search for `terrorists`? The NWFP government is worried that this may be the case

By Behroz Khan

The news is quite disturbing for the people and the governmnet of the NWFP; it has been reported that the United States has warned that it will bomb any part of the province in pursuit of `terrorists`.

The warning, it is said, was conveyed to the NWFP governor, Khalilur Rehman and of course to the chief minister, Akram Khan Durrani, by none other than President General Pervez Musharraf himself at a meeting in Islamabad. The tone of the message, an insider tells TNS, is tantamount to bullying.

``The president told the governor and chief minister that Americans have warned that those who are hiding in the Frontier and elsewhere will be bombed out,`` a source privy to the meeting revealed, requesing anonymity. The warning left the president angry as well as concerned, the source added, saying this could be an epilogue to increased target hitting by umanned Drones on Pakistani territory.

Apart from killing Commander Nek Muhammad in South Waziristan Agency, the US planes have targeted two suspected terrorist hideouts in Miramshah and Mirali areas of North Waziristan and Damadola in Bajaur Agency over the past few months. In Miramshah, all the victims turned out to be local tribesmen while mystery shrouds the president`s claim that Hamza Rabia, al-Qaeda`s No-3, was killed in a raid on Khisokhel village in Mirali sub-division of North Waziristan. Sources, having links with militant groups active in the tribal belt and across the border in Afghanistan, deny the claim.

Similarly, claims by the American media and Pakistani authorities that al-Qaeda`s No-2, Aiman Al-Zawahiri, was the target of the air strike in Damadola, or that top al-Qaeda operatives have actually been killed, are still to be verified.

The clergy-led government in the Frontier, already on the defensive over its silence on military operations in tribal areas and US air strikes, is taking the new warning as a declaration of open war. Confirming that President Pervez Musharraf has informed him of the new dangers ahead, Akram Khan Durrani has said that the US has warned to go after the so-called `terrorists` even in the settled areas of NWFP, if the attacks against the Americans and their allies continued in the neighbouring Afghanistan.

``What use is our strong defence if we cannot defend our innocent people against such naked aggression,`` said Durrani when approached for comments regarding the fresh US warnings. The US authorities, official sources said, are of the opinion that extremists and terrorists take shelter in the tribal areas along the Pak-Afghan border and parts of NWFP after carrying out terrorist attacks in the eastern and southern provinces of Afghanistan. Pakistani nationals have been identified carrying out suicide bombings and fighting the US and allied forces in Afghanistan.

``This is a conspiracy against Pakistan. The US believes that bombing can unite the Pashtuns on both sides of the Durand Line,`` said Durrani, adding that by doing so the Americans are making more enemies than friends.

In the wake of the warning, Pakistani officials foresee that the US air strikes against `terrorists` might be more severe than the ones carried out in North Waziristan and Bajaur agencies. ``The US action will not be limited to the tribal or border areas this time. It will engulf the whole of NWFP and even beyond,`` the sources said.

The Karachi bombing and almost all islamist violence in Pakistan is blowback from the paki jihadi strategy..the jihadi strategy that pakis support...


Religious extremism and violence —Dr Hasan-Askari Rizvi

The incident is a manifestation of religious and cultural intolerance and extremism which have become a conspicuous feature of Pakistan’s politics and society. This can be traced back to the 1980s, when the military government of General Zia Ul Haq along with the United States and conservative Arab states bolstered Islamic-Afghan opposition to the Soviet military presence in Afghanistan. The hardline and orthodox Islamic groups obtained funds and weapons to fight the Soviet troops in Afghanistan. Their position was also strengthened due to General Zia Ul Haq’s co-option of Islamic groups to neutralise political forces that questioned his military rule. He projected the Pakistani state as the enforcer of orthodox Islam and allowed these groups to penetrate state institutions.

Their relevance persisted after the withdrawal of Soviet troops from Afghanistan because the government of Pakistan launched Islamist militant groups in Indian-administered Kashmir to bolster the on-going insurgency in the 1990s. The continued patronage of the Pakistani state to Islamic militancy led to a proliferation of militant groups. They began to use their newly acquired power to pursue their narrow religious agenda in Pakistan’s domestic context. It is noteworthy that the mainstay of Islamic militancy in Afghanistan and Kashmir came primarily from the Deoband, Wahabi, and Ahle Hadith traditions. The Barelvis and the Shias played a limited role.

one swallow doesn`t a sumer make..

how long before the paki government manipulates the numbers again?

Independent economists forecast below 6% GDP growth

By Fida Hussain

ISLAMABAD: The missed targets of major crops and the lower growth of industrial sector could deprive the country of achieving the desired GDP growth of seven percent, as independent economists are forecasting the real growth something below six percent in the current financial year.

“The government must be jubilant if the GDP growth touches six percent against the last year’s achieved growth of 8.4 percent,” most economists in the private sector are of the view.

They have informed the government that the situation has changed considerably this fiscal, where the estimated cotton crop size could be around 13 million bales against the last year’s achieved production of 14.6 million bales. There is a difference of 1.6 million bales in cotton production this year and what was achieved in the last fiscal, an economist, who asked not to be named, told the Daily Times.

``with drab ideas with least ideas of romanticism ( romanticism is BIG BIG Problem for marriages.) ``

madani saheb.....my advice....do not try to marry off your daughters to someone whom they do not love!!..........Respect your daughter`s `Romanticism`................otherwise your own blood would curse you for the rest of their lives...........

prophet tahmed: so I don`t get the prophet tahmed seal of approval?..damn..i`m all depressed now..

#104 arjun the monkey man: I see you dont have a life outside chowk on weekends either.

Mr. Kumar #98 Finally....I am glad some Indian finally spoke up (in addition to swarrier, that is). It is too easy for empty minds with nothing to write about other than ridicule and abuse to other communities that have no doubt kept chowk from growing beyond where it is today (which of course violates chowk guidelines, I may add).

#98 by bjkumar on April 15, 2006 8:52am PT



Nobody in their right mind gets pleasure from the suffering of individuals


Nope..I feel good about the FedGov deporting people who`re more likely to be involved in or support terrorist activities..

ahmedmadani #100 A scientific survey reported in lafanga american press reports positive correlation between number of books at home and performance of child in school (ceteris paribus, and I say this in Latin because it is nice thing to say in Latin). But with one exception, as follows: If these books are on shayer shairi (as opposed to other subjects like science, history and so on), then there is not just no positive correlation, but negative correlation between number of books at home and performance of child in school.

In short, science support what you already know - shayer shairi is useless stuff, in fact bad for the brain.

On other kind of lafangbazi that you note, what you call the foolish nonsense of the heart will be broken etc. I humbly disagree - Have you forgotten when you were young once? Jap aatish jawaan thha?? So, please dont come in the way like the Great Wall of China between young people in love. Do you want the human race to come to an end!! :-)

My observations on the happenings at large in India is that it is a result of the political class being totally out of control. Every government organ has been hijacked by them for their personal causes, be it the police, fire department, municipal corporations and the like which is why they simply don`t function.

In India, we absolutely need political reforms to ensure that the Mayawatis, Lalloo Prasads, Mulayams, the Gowda family all of whom are essentially incompetent and failed people find it very hard to gain political power and hence ruin the country. At the same time, we need to make it easy for people like Narayan Murthy of Infosys, who has shown the guts to stand up to the politicians, and who has genuine long term solutions for India`s problems to be given a chance either through politics or administration to get into the system and make a difference.

Re: # 99

tvarad:

``In India, we absolutely need political reforms to ensure that the Mayawatis, Lalloo Prasads, Mulayams, the Gowda family all of whom are essentially incompetent and failed people find it very hard to gain political power and hence ruin the country. ``

forget about these naa-layaks.

worry about the ``intellects`` like arjun singh, if he has his way narayan murthy/ratan tata would be running to china as fast as possible.....

#97 Arjun

Nobody in their right mind gets pleasure from the suffering of individuals - no matter what their nationality!

Will you stop recycling this 3-year old piece now.

I do not know what happened at the time and who did what, but if Federal agents mistreated individuals in their custody they probably violated some American laws, too!

#98 by bjkumar on April 15, 2006 8:52am PT



Nobody in their right mind gets pleasure from the suffering of individuals


Nope..I feel good about the FedGov deporting people who`re more likely to be involved in terrorist activities..

Re: # 102
This is not my contribution, I am for full admission to USA once anybody enters and suppoet human rights.

I am against hhearts stuff etc, love etc its blind and not good, its like drugs and it gives wrong ideas and grief to parents. Lots of people feel their sons and daughter are great but really they are not most are not good just most median and all hype.Also people are marrying for love etc and then again break marriage soon for they never thought partner was such bad and heartless person. It is always good to start with no poetic ideas and with drab ideas with least ideas of romanticism ( romanticism is BIG BIG Problem for marriages.) You go damn with idea to have children then its ok. Then you marry proper as then you do not marry ugly person in love as then you know that you have to get them married, then sense comes. Problem is old times people were sensible they wanted to get married for children now they marry for love that is problem and then children are byproduct of modern marriage is big problem. In my family also this love marriage type problems but I ignore and bless them and they are away so no too much trouble, Its bad time. I need to go to sleep. I took my tab against GAD ( General Anxity disorder), feel sleepy Good luck everybody.

#93 by HP on April 15, 2006 0:51am PT

pack your bags...

Immigration crackdown shatters Muslims` lives

By Cam Simpson, Flynn McRoberts and Liz Sly
Tribune staff reporters
Published November 16, 2003

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan -- The 75 passengers on the Icelandair jet sat strapped to their seats, cloth bands cinching their arms to their waists for all but the final descent of the three-leg, 20-hour flight.

Struggling to feed themselves, they spilled rice and meat onto the floor of the cabin. A trip to the bathroom required the escort of a federal agent.

After the plane screeched to a halt in the sweltering July heat, U.S. officials herded the men off the jet and onto the soil of their native Pakistan. The purpose of the flight: deportation. Why them? Their nationality.(i.e. PAKI)

#91 by ahmedmadani

Ahmed Madani saheb, you have hit the nail right on its head!

I agree that this web-site must stay focused on Pakistan-related things - we should all try to solve problems. Your advice regarding starting Indians’ own web-paper is more difficult to implement. It is a little like setting up a business corporation. It is too much work to do.

It is a lot easier to just take one over!

Some people may disagree with you that this is a Pakistani site - please remember, an Indian sits on top and in all probability keeps whipping the rears of the Pakistanis underneath! Others may see that as no big inconsistency in this case - since women do it all the time irrespective of nationality!

Your analogy of a reversed microscope is absolutely accurate. The bullock carts continue to race along those highways! Those are the most energy-efficient vehicles ever invented and the Indians did it, too!

In the same way - the west is only NOW discovering the advantages of staying slim - the Indians have known it for ages - and actually practiced it like you stated - over 80% of our population has no difficulty maintaining that slim figure.

It could even be said that the Indians have become so lazy due to all those successes that they always try to do things the easy way.

We did the same with our languages - we grabbed and appropriated words from Farsi and others when nobody was looking and before anyone could say ``boo``, we claimed their ownership - and since we have the larger number of people, it gets easily validated, too!

It is a serious problem for the people of Pakistan! They are simply not producing enough children to keep up with the Indians. For every child that is born in Pakistan, there are four or five born in India - so when the time comes, we can outshout them by a volume level of four to one! In spite of the hard efforts of a few Pakistani individuals here!

I am sorry to give you the bad news sir, some day we will grab all your shero-shairis too (and perhaps even the male and female shairs as well)! I believe we may have already grabbed your various foods. Soon, there may be little original Pakistani items left for the Pakistanis - and there is not much even the Drs. Gill of your world can suggest on how to protect yourselves! They - like all the Pakistani brains on this site and everywhere else in the world - are absolutely clueless on how to deal with the serious Indian threat!

We do things in even more insidious ways - we make movies and songs with the Kashmir theme so everyone will associate Kashmir with India - and then the world will never question our rightful ownership of that province! We even usurp your emotions! How can one watch ``Kashmir ki Kali`` and not cry?!!

You think THAT is bad! Just wait till we start making movies with Sindhi and Balochi themes and start opening call centers in your side of Punjab - I think all your khakis are eminently suited for those call-center jobs - based on their training and performance. Such jobs may not pay as much as their current booty - but then at least they will actually do some real work and then perhaps identify more with their common masses!

Make no mistake about it.

The Indians are coming! The Indians are coming!

Unless, of course, they are already there! Like on this site.

Re: # 96
Mr. BJK It was funny you wrote about shayaer and etc its useless stuff.
I have bad opinion about ``poets`` etc and they are mostly/ all Lafangas. As father of my daughters I was damn against such characters `` who make poetry`` and stuff have unshaved faces and wasting parents hard earned money talking about useless things and talking nonsense and consuming enormous amounts of teas, smoking and wearing strange dresses and trying to impress impressible young girls who do not like good simple good husband and father of children type material and then destroying joy of young womens parents. They are useless for work as they feel simple work is not for poet and big work is too big so never works. And poetry is useless even if sweet as by putting poems pages and sturring tea it does not become sweet useless you need simple sugar. which is Rs. 44/kg. Now a days things are bad. I do little tution some time to ungrateful students and they have strange ideas. One young lady who was not doing ok in calculus had tution with me. And she use to come late and recently told her if she does not come on time I can not help her. I asked her why always late she said her male friend was reading shayari stuff in college and she wanted to attend or his heart will be broken etc. you know foolish nonsense. And she failed due to this useless boys bad influence and her father blamed me and said I should teach her again free. I told him I can do that but unless he kick that parasite friend shayar of his ungrteful daughter nothing can be done. The girl married shayar and has son and stil