UPDATE Delhi Explosion in Mosque
Meerut on Fire, Karachi Burns

#139 by Salim_Chauhan

I am sorry to note that while many Muslims languished in British jails, the leaders of the Muslim League were not among these patriots. Several times during WWII, these League guys collaborated with the British.

This is what I`ve found most intriguing. While many people (Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs included) sacrificed their lives and limbs for the freedom struggle, none of the ML leaders, including the greatest of them all, Jinnah ever went to jail. Instead, they exhorted Muslims to shed their blood and that of their enemies without any qualms.

Re: # 141
[Here is my first message as an Indian: I think we Indians need to put our house in order first before pointing fingers at Pakistanis. We Indians should learn good things from them Pakistanis. We Indians should try to get united and not be embroiled with in freedom movements in northeast, Kashmir and other places. We Indians should not have treated Indian Punjabis so poorly that we slaughtered 40,000 of them in the 80s.]

Good one Ahmedzai
Now go put the boot on the other foot. No pot should call the kettle black.

Re: # 141

akhmadzai:

``Here is my first message as an Indian:``

KawWaa chale Hans ki chaal .................

Re: # 144 ballu

Yep - after Naqshabandi`s ``transformation`` - things are looking better for pakistan .... now can somebody do some transformation stuff on that freak YLH?... the guy is completely out of whack :))

#141, Ahmadzai {``What I am trying to say is that on this board, it is very difficult to be Pakistani and be posting anti-Pakistan messages for too long. ``}

Khan Sahib,
I had heard that Niswaar is not good for you. Now I am sure that it causes brain damage. :)

Re: # 148

mohar11
``now can somebody do some transformation stuff on that freak YLH?... the guy is completely out of whack :))``

one at a time :)

harish_hyd #145, {``This is what I`ve found most intriguing. While many people (Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs included) sacrificed their lives and limbs for the freedom struggle, none of the ML leaders, including the greatest of them all, Jinnah ever went to jail``}

Harry Bhai,

This is one among many damaging points about the sincerity and honesty of the Muslim League leaders concerning their vision, their commitment to independence, and their struggle against colonialism. Personally, I think that they were used by the British to keep the Congress off balance. Once their usefulness was depleted, they were discarded - much like Mushy and Pakistan today.

ballukhan #142, #144 and harish_hyd #143,

Gentlemen,
I think that the most important person to convince is the one we shave every morning. If I can`t believe in partition, in the obscure unity of Muslims, in the use of force to convince people in matters of faith and loyalty, in the application of intolerance for consensus, and the selective use of human rights when it suits us, then how can I debate effectively in the defense of what I can`t believe?

This should apply to all of us. Emotions and jingoism aside, there is usually a right path and a wrong one - things are really more black and white than we think. Partition was wrong. Gujarat was wrong. Terrorism is wrong. War is wrong. Life is right. Death is wrong. Tolerance is right. Intolerance is wrong.

Ahmedzai #141 dhaera mehrabaani, ahmedzai saeb, for the good wishes. As you may have noticed, my vocabulary of pashto (which was quite limited to begin with) has indeed suffered due to years of absence from Pakistan, so I am glad to provided the translation.

It is a well known fact that individuals who stereotype other groups (whether based on ethnicity, or religion or nationality) do so in an attempt to cover-up their own inadequacies and feelings of inferiority. So, I am concerned about further details on these individuals - i.e. whether they are what they claim to be or not. Since the overriding fact is that by stereotyping and abusing, such an individual has already indicated what he basically is, namely that he is a loser suffering from complexes. A few individuals (all Indians trying to pose as Pakistanis, like the stink-bomb ``khalid ahmed`` or ``mullah shamsul``) have tried this, and are quickly spotted anyway because they are too stupid to keep up the act for too long. But by and large, it is easy enough to spot an Indian posing as a Pakistani.

As for your question about the message to Indians - I dont think our telling them to worry about their own problems is going to change them. Nor does it matter what they write on chowk - in a way it is good, since it opens the eyes of many Pakistanis who come to chowk to the reality of how much spite and hatred there exists in India (in addition to the goodwill that many Indian chowkies also demonstrate). This is the reality one would not know otherwise. So, when an Indian like ranjit mocks people dying in earthquakes, or an Indian like arjun who has been wetting his lungi with delight over the past few years at the joy of seeing the real life misery of Pakistanis who were deported after 9/11 - all this is very edudcational. Since one would not believe such characters actually exist in real life.

#153 second para, line saying ``I am concerned about further details on these individuals -`` should read ``I am not concerned about further details on these individuals -``

swarrier #146 Very good point. Rest assured that your fellow countrymen need to understand this point much far, far more than Pakistanis. And certainly Ahmedzai - as his contributions on diverse issues to chowk indicate - hardly needs this lesson from you. Go tell it to your fellow countrymen like arjun and ajeya and harimau and countless others who have written nothing on chowk other than about problems with muslims and/or Pakistan. You wont find a Pakistani equivalent to these single-issue characters from India.

#153, Mr. Tahmed Sahib, {``It is a well known fact that individuals who stereotype other groups (whether based on ethnicity, or religion or nationality) do so in an attempt to cover-up their own inadequacies and feelings of inferiority.``}

Mr. Tahmed, Sir,
While you did not directly address me, I think I understood your thinly-disguised message to Ahmadzai Sahib. So, when you stereotyped all Biharis (and Mexicans for good measure), as you did in your post #129, you were displaying your own inadequacy and feeling of inferiority?

You had said:
{`` I used to be sympathetic to these biharis, but no more given the politics of ethnic hatred that their fellow biharis brought with them to Pakistan (similar to what, as discussed above, you have displayed). And contrary to your views, these biharis have no more ``right`` to come to Pakistan than the mexicans (who wrap themselves in the US flag, like the biharis wrap themselves in the Pakistan flag) have a ``right`` to come to the US. ``}

Mr. Tahmed Sahib,
That is my complaint against you. You issue far-reaching sweeping sermons that conflict with your earlier pontifications, thus rendering you a hopeless idiotic hypocrite. Of course, I could demolish your irrational thesis in post #129, but then that would be further proof of your lack of comprehension. You sound like a redneck as far your bigotry is concerned, but I bet you still speak English with a Pindi accent.

Aw, never mind, let me teach you a lesson. Sir, the Mexicans owned the western part of the United Sates - CA, NV, AZ, NM, TX, CO, and possibly all the way to Oregon. This territory was forcibly taken from them in 1848. Mexicans have been living in these areas long before your great great grandfather was shining Maharaja Ranjit Singh`s shoes in Punjab. Now, the Biharis did not migrate to Bangladesh, they migrated to Pakistan and were loyal citizens of Pakistan. To deny them access to their own country, simply because they would upset the demographic balance in Sind, is the height of bigotry, racism, perfidy, and insincerity. Is it any wonder that God balances things out in the long run? Pakistan was too mean-spirited to accept 250,000 Pakistanis, so an earthquake took away 70,000 innocent Pakistanis. Next time that earthquake needs to demolish Islamabad - the root of all evil.

Re: # 155
Dear Tahmed
That is precisely my point. The pot and kettle are both black. I`ve not been on chowk long enough, but I`ve seen the same sort of folks on both sides. Some are frontal in their assault, others take a tortuous route but the net result is still the same. You are a Pakistani and you say more Indians are scum, some Indians would say the same about Pakistanis. You (not necessarily you) make fun of Hindus , Hindus make fun of Muslims.

All of this adds fuel to the fire and right now I`m as guilty of it as anybody else. So suppose we ignore the ones who make a noise completely.

All of us know, or at least are supposed to know , that as people, countries, religions we are not perfect. If we were we wouldn`t have the issues we do. If anybody lives under the illusion that they are the blessed ones well then, they should seriously be seeing a shrink.

End of rant.

May the force be with everybody. -)

this is what you get for playing with the islamic fundamentalist fire..

on a related note: i`m sure the foreign investors let out a sigh of relief knowing that the suicide bombing was sectarian..

Nishtar Park bombing was sectarian

KARACHI: President Pervez Musharraf assured foreign investors on Monday night that the April 11 Nishtar Park suicide bombing was a sectarian attack, implying that the carnage in which over 50 people were killed, had no links with the present-day wave of terrorism that has been sweeping the world since 9/11.

He said this while addressing an annual dinner of the Overseas Investors’ Chamber of Commerce and Industry at the Karachi Golf Club on Monday evening.

The president assured foreign investors of the security of their capital, saying that the government had formed a strategy to confront terrorism and extremism which had yielded “encouraging results”. Pakistan is undergoing a “societal transformation” with improvement in law and order, he said.

#157 swarrier: I wrote some very specific things in my response to you. Please address those rather than making sweeping generalizations to seek parity in these single-minded obsessions when there is none: chowk provides ample indication that Pakistanis on chowk are far less concerned about India than vice versa. Arjun #158 has even was good enough to illustrate my point with another one of his standard cut and pastes. :-)

#157 swarrier: Your point about ignoring such posters is of course reasonable. However, it is also not unreasonable to point out -as I did below and in the past on chowk - the spite and hatred that is demonstrated towards Pakistan by too many Indians on chowk and which is clearly one-sided. And I dont say this with any joy, since I consider good relations between the two countries to be significant to the well-being and prosperity of Pakistan - and perhaps this animosity will dissipate once a new generation is brought up in India that was clearly not raised on this hate-Pakistan ideology of BJP.