What Really is an Islamic State?

>>>The ability of the Government to change policies and adapt to the age by adhering to the universal values, which are the same as to days Universal Human Rights values for example, is an Islamic State. A few of the majority Muslim States however have rejected these Human rights!

Dear Author,

Thanks for a confused article. But please don`t confuse your personal optimism with Islam. A lot of poeple commit this mistake of comming up with the best optimistic thinking and then tagging it as Islam.

Islam is what it is. If it sucks, your article can`t help it.

Samanakay Sahib, Burgers are sold by different names in different store. The names range from Big Mac, Quarter Pounder, Whopper, BLT, you name it. A burger is a burger by any name. Your conclusions are kinda interesting to suggest that all states are theocratic in some sense. That is just a Burger with no cheese. Secular doesn’t mean irreligious, it simply means that the Laws are not tilted to make one religion supreme over other, and a society where all religion are free. Secularism is built on freedom of religion and thought. In other words, yes you can conclude that all societies are influenced by religions. But please don’t label them as theocratic, as calling Denmark a theocratic state may piss a lot of Muslims (as well as Christians, Jews, Hindus and Wahabis) off.

Islamic State is where simply a nation which constitution or laws are governed by Shria Laws .
Different Caliphs had there versions of Islamic State - definition , working of the state varies -

Islamic State`s fundamental concept is Allah`s Rule through His vice-gerent on Earth, Man. The chosen one among the piuous men, the Caliph, executes the authority as a proxy to Allah.

Since, Allah created the Heavens and Earth and everything in between, therefore, All of this is Allah`s exclusive preserve and it is only logical to further claim that His subjects are expected to abide by His Laws. The ones who are not subimitting(Islam) to His Will must be brought under His Kingship.

Allah promises eternal life and rewards to the faithful and warriors who fight and work for the cause of Submission and Justice.

The farangi West-Phalian concept of State-X, State-Y based on ethnical, linguistic conceptions of statehood is alien to Islam.

---

In the near-mortal words of Iqbal
Cheen-o-Arab hamara, Hindustan hamara
Muslim hain hum, watan hai sara jahan hamara

Duniya kay bu`t kadon main, wo pehla ghar Khuda ka
Hum uss kay pasban hain, wo pasban hamara

Baatil say dabney waley, aey Asman! nahin hum
Sou baar ker chuka hai Tu imtihan hamara

A very confused article. Where is this guy living. Maybe he is writing this article in his cozy home in the USA. The land of Yahood-o-Nisara is a nice place to come up with theories like these.

Common man, what good is Islam without stoning adulters to death, or without killing apostates.

Islamic state is like a 17 yr old`s canadian girlfriend. Who never materializes but we hear about her assets all the time.

The readers here seem to find Er.Samnakay very confusing. PROF MUHAMMAD MUZAFFAR MIRZA has a written a more straightforward and enlightened article in today`s edition of Nation on what really is an Islamic State.

http://www.nation.com.pk/daily/april-2006/20/columns5.php


Quaid-i-Azam’s Pakistan
This is a heart breaking moment and a matter of sorrow and despondency that the worshippers of sun, monkeys and cow, torch bearers of superstitious stories of Hindus, expounders of “Mahabharat”, the philosophers of the philosophy of human antagonism, they are always vigilant and conscious of their existence.

In my opinion Islam did not establish or envision the establishment of a state. What it established in Madina was not a state but a direct social democracy, bereft of the coercive essential apparatus of the state like police, professional army, taxation, etc. In fact Quran and hadees express sympathy for the prisoner and hatred for the police and the tax-collector, the fundamental basis for the state. It may perhaps be taken as a revival of the true democracy of the historical Greek City State. But now has all this been subverted to establish despotic tyrannical state in the name of Islam that made its subjects devoid of human rights and subject to blasphemy laws and Sharia lynchings.

With regards

teshah

Interesting mix of fetid nonsense, gibberish and vomited-up bits of text memorized from this or that european source. As always, combines rank and disgusting prejudice (``Gandhi’s push for his personal Papacy (Mahatma-cum-Bapuji) taking India on the path to Theocracy``) with fantastical discussion of freedom, democracy, human rights etc.

The only comparison I can think of is of a nazi lecturing us on human rights while sitting in the home of a jew who has been sent to a death camp.

Pheew ! What a faecal stench ! What a picture of mental distress and empty headedness!

Just go kill some infidels my friend. That is what the real meaning of islamic state or your brand of islam is.

Re: # 9
This post captures the essence...

Though I should not speak on this subject, but since these days Islam generates a general interest, I express my views below. Hope you guys will not mind.

The concept of an Islamic State is simple. It is made complicated by infusing other thoughts and principles into it. It shows that the Muslims are unsure whether an State standing on truly Islamic principles can stand on its own or not, particularly in the modern world.

For an Islamic State, the principal guiding light cannot be other than Quran. You can say it is the main Constitution of an Islamic state. I believe, the Holy Quran is supplemented by sayings of Hazrat Mohammed(pbuh) which he told to the people from time to time. The sayings of Hazrat Mohammed(pbuh) (called Hadiaths,I believe), can be said to the annexures of the main constitution i.e. Quran.

However, keeping in view the modern world which is quite complicated, there may still be many aspects which will not be covered either in Quran or in Hadiaths, but are essential for running a modern state. Such aspects can be incorporated by consensus--they are to be first looked into Islam for their nearest equivalents and if not found, they can be adopted from outside,again by consensus and modified, if required to suit Islam.

One aspect of Islamic jurisprudence which is quite criticised by Muslims as well as Non-muslims is capital punishment. Here we should understand one thing. Islam did not arrive in a well formed society or state or country. It created its own society, state and country. Naturally, during its formative stages there could not have been any jails, gallows etc. where criminals could be kept. Therefore, in the forming Islamic society, the only punishment could be a capital punishment. This is one aspect which can be looked into sympathetically.

As regards ruling mechanisms, Islam had had three pillars--one consisted of Kings, second consisted of religous persons and third was Islamic Scholars and philosphers. Now since the concept of Kings is now not possible, this pillar can be replaced by democratically elected leaders. Rest of the two pillars are already there particularly in a country like Pakistan. These three can evolve a structure by delegation of powers say for example, the exceution part remains with the democratically elected persons, the policy part remains with the other two pillars.

This way a truly Islamic State which is also modern in its character is indeed possible.

Dear Mr Samnakay...

This is an interesting discussion ... as to what constitutes an Islamic state.

I think however that Jinnah`s 11th August 1947 speech or any other speech that you are putting up as an example of a progressive Islamic state is the mistake Allama Pervez made many years ago. (Infact Allama Pervez reacted very violently to the 11th August speech at first and then tried to justify it in his writings) ...

In my humble opinion- having invested so much in reading about the Quaid-e-Azam- Jinnah was forwarding his John Morley liberalism just as Ataturk was forwarding his French style secularism ... but unlike Ataturk, Jinnah did not have the might of an army behind him and therefore he did on occasion lean on Islam and couch his ideology by appealing to Islam (this even Ataturk was forced to do - read his speeches from 1918-1922) but if you read 11th August 1947 speech you will find that at that very important juncture there is no mention of Islam ... imagine that.. address to the constituent assembly of the new nation and no mention of Islam to justify his statements on equality of citizenship ... instead religion was the ``personal faith of the individual``.

I agree with your general reading of events surrounding partition ofcourse.

Re: # 11
Islam did not arrive in a well formed society or state or country. It created its own society, state and country. Naturally, during its formative stages there could not have been any jails, gallows etc. where criminals could be kept. Therefore, in the forming Islamic society, the only punishment could be a capital punishment. This is one aspect which can be looked into sympathetically.

Spin, spin, some more spin, and then some ...

``What Really is an Islamic State?``

A death knell to religious minorities in that state.

#9 wiseguyin & # 10 pmishra2


iss chaman meiN kabab kee boo hai
dil-e bulbul jalaa diyaa kis nai?

The article is not very clear but I commend the person writing it for atleast making an effort and writing quite well (this to counter the damn idiots who are barking in the many posts without knowing a thing about Islam revealing their thuggish nature- you all know who you are). I would disagree with the author when he tries to suggest that Islam seeks homogeniety in society, there is no such recommendation, it discourages sectarianism but not diversity, specifically tells those that govern not to concern themselves with those differences in deen, to explain the truth of which is the domain of Allah alone.

That said, instead of state, a fairly recent phenomenon, we need to talk about a self governed community of Muslims, that takes care not only of each other but non-Muslims as well, regardless of geographic boundary (the best community that has been extracted for humankind (not only Muslims) says the Quran). I have taken the following points from my article on a similar topic which can be read here
(http://www.selvesandothers.org/article11559.html)


1) It will not be a state governed by majority rule (``And if you obey the majority of those on earth they will lead you astray; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess`` (Quran 6:116). At any point the masses are easily swayed by those that control the means of wealth and communication and hense they seldom know what is to their benefit.

2) Rule is by those who are informed on various issues, in other words a community of intellectuals, and there is no limit to the number but qualifications to entry. The Quran is clear on the importance of knowledgable decisions: ``None can inform you like the one who is aware`` (Quran 35:14), a similar recommendation is the case with Quran 25:59.

3) Next, there is to be a connection between the governing intellectuals and the governed public. Even the prophet was told to: ``. consult with them upon the conduct of affairs.`` (Quran 3:159). We are also told how the process of governance is to be conducted in a society of similar publics: ``And whose rule is based upon consultation (Shura) among themselves`` (Quran 42:38). This consultation (Shura) is to be totally in the public record and not secret (Quran 58:10).

Therefore, we can conclude that an Islamic society would have a counsel where the public consults with the decision makers, the decision makers would be the ones ``who know`` (as deduced above) i.e. are qualified in the area in which they are making decisions. The decision makers would be numerous, unless one person claims to know everything in all fields, which is impossible. A counsel of intellectuals with no limit to their numbers that are in constant touch with the public and consult with them is thus the Islamic form of government. This would be democracy in essence, since the entire society including the decision makers would have equal status and would participate in the decision making process.

4) The ``state`` will not concern itself with theological differences (6:159, which says do not concern yourself with them on any of these matters, Allah will explain to them...).

5) It will be ``socialistic`` in economic principles in the following way: It would take an active role in redistribution of wealth, ``so that it makes not a circuit among the wealthy`` and employing people to undertake that redistribution that is paid for by the state out of the same funds (9:60) etc. People`s legitmate basic needs would be paramount before anyone can lay any claim to a surplus.

6) Islam does not include 1200 years worth of bureaucratized laws that have entered its fold under the garb of hadith, scholars and fiqh; the only authoritative text on Islam is the Quran and within the Quran a handful of mohkam (categoric) verses are the framework based upon which laws will be constructed by intellectualls in consultation with the public. Unlike a non-free highly bureaucratized society like we have in the US where laws govern every aspect of life, laws in a Muslim society, according to the Quran would be minimal, a handful:

Here is what i concluded that article with

(quote) The Quran thus grants greater freedom and the resulting ability to reason compared to any (bureaucratized) system that exists in the current epoch: ``Those who avoid the greater (Kabair) crimes and shameful deeds...`` (Quran 42:37). The greater crimes are less than a handful and can be extracted from Quran’s description of crimes, those are the only ones we are told to avoid. Here the Quran is not concerned about the smaller details that keep the traditionalist ``Islamic scholars`` busy, even as they ignore the bigger public issues that are causing great problems among humankind. A truly Islamic society would be one in which freedom and reason flourishes and laws are minimal, it would be a truly democratic society, where democracy is practiced in essence and not just by slogan. Hence, the purpose and judgment of life based upon choice ``...to determine which of you is best in deeds.`` (Quran 67:2).