Asif Naqshbandi April 18, 2006
#10 Posted by Naqshbandi on May 10, 2006 7:52:07 am
The translation of the title was my own--as was the whole translation. I also did the transliteration.
Shabnam e baagh e Haqq (Dew from Truth`s Garden) is from one of the verses near the end.
Kaan (ears) and Kaan (mine) is a deliberate use of wordplay I think by ala hazrat to show his mastery.
Shabnam e baagh e Haqq (Dew from Truth`s Garden) is from one of the verses near the end.
Kaan (ears) and Kaan (mine) is a deliberate use of wordplay I think by ala hazrat to show his mastery.
#9 Posted by echoboom on May 1, 2006 7:36:08 pm
#74 by echoboom on April 30, 2006 1:43pm PT
Aasif:72
salaam!
I feel honoured to be considered by you somewhat significant.
Before I delve into all the verses please tell me the following:
1) from where did you take the title? Could you please write the Urdu/farsi--if any.
2) The `transliteration` I do not understand, if you mean writing it in roman script, it is not a transliteration--it is just in another script.
3) Poets , who value language worry a lot not only about the word but also how that word , although correct, might be misheard or misunderstood.
example:
Door o nazdeek kay sun-nay waalay woh kaan
Kaan e la`l e karaamat pe laakhon salam
In the first line kaan is referring to ears; in the second it is mineral-mine. Now whenever we use farsi words in urdu diction we never say kaan-e; it could be heard as kaanay meaning one-eyed. Poets in mushairaas can be really roasted for it. Such composition lacks ``iblaagh`` (thorough & exact communication).
This becomes even more onerous where a hamd, naat or even an ordinary Quaseeda is concerned. The taqquaddus, sanctity, is seemingly injured because of thoughtlessness. Hence Naat & Salaam are a genre which ordinary but knowledgeable poets avoid.
Your Ahmad Raza Khan Sahib could not have done this. With his stature in scholarship it just cannot be so. Please look into it a bit more deeply--I mean the urdu part. It is most likely by someone who translated or transliterated it into urdu. I am aware that there are many many versions.
4) salam is now also an english word ( it is in the dictionary) so I won`t hesitate using it.
Please take this as a sincere desire on my part to state the truth & nothing but the truth.
Please inform, henceforth, on your ``Dew`` board.
[Reply to interact #74]
Aasif:72
salaam!
I feel honoured to be considered by you somewhat significant.
Before I delve into all the verses please tell me the following:
1) from where did you take the title? Could you please write the Urdu/farsi--if any.
2) The `transliteration` I do not understand, if you mean writing it in roman script, it is not a transliteration--it is just in another script.
3) Poets , who value language worry a lot not only about the word but also how that word , although correct, might be misheard or misunderstood.
example:
Door o nazdeek kay sun-nay waalay woh kaan
Kaan e la`l e karaamat pe laakhon salam
In the first line kaan is referring to ears; in the second it is mineral-mine. Now whenever we use farsi words in urdu diction we never say kaan-e; it could be heard as kaanay meaning one-eyed. Poets in mushairaas can be really roasted for it. Such composition lacks ``iblaagh`` (thorough & exact communication).
This becomes even more onerous where a hamd, naat or even an ordinary Quaseeda is concerned. The taqquaddus, sanctity, is seemingly injured because of thoughtlessness. Hence Naat & Salaam are a genre which ordinary but knowledgeable poets avoid.
Your Ahmad Raza Khan Sahib could not have done this. With his stature in scholarship it just cannot be so. Please look into it a bit more deeply--I mean the urdu part. It is most likely by someone who translated or transliterated it into urdu. I am aware that there are many many versions.
4) salam is now also an english word ( it is in the dictionary) so I won`t hesitate using it.
Please take this as a sincere desire on my part to state the truth & nothing but the truth.
Please inform, henceforth, on your ``Dew`` board.
[Reply to interact #74]
#8 Posted by HP on April 24, 2006 8:21:53 am
Seems like you missed one…I myself cannot remember the first line but the second line goes like this:
“Shama bazm-e hidayat pe lakhoon salam”
Growing up in Pakistan, it was a popular hamad on TV and radio during Ramazan and Eid milad nabi.
During the last twenty two years of stay in the US, I have not heard it even once.
Nowadays, we just don’t watch Pak Dish channel during Ramadan and other religious occasions. I even talked to a Geo TV executive and he has promised to reduce the religious content from the Geo TV broadcast to the US as many Pakistani living in the US are tired of the religious content on Pak TV and other media.
Sufi-ism has roots in both Arabia, Iran and central asia.
A majority of Sufi in India came from these areas. Including Lal Shabaz Qalandar of Sehwan, Sindh. His name was Usman Merwandi. Some sufi in Multan also had iranian and arab roots. So was perhaps Baba Farid gunjshakar.
#7 Posted by Naqshbandi on April 23, 2006 7:02:45 am
harimau:
Thanks for your question. The brief answer is no. Such sensual and sensitive Sufi poetry is not just local to India or due to Hindu influence but is found historically throughout the Islamic world from Marakkesh to Indonesia. Arabic and, especially, Persian are full of Muslim poetry eulogising the Prophet (peace be upon him) in similar terms. Just to give you two names: the greatest such eulogist in Arabic is Ibn al Farid whose Diwan is choc-a-bloc of such poetry and the Persian language is inundated with such works: Rumi, Hafiz, Sa`adi, and, perhaps, above all Jami just to mention a few. Turkish has Yunus Emre and many others too. Punjabi has many examples too. Indeed, this poetry is a distinct genre in Islamic poetry. Anne Marie Schimmel has written a brilliant book about it entitled And Muhammad is His Messenger: Veneration of the Prophet in Islamic Piety .
Here is an excerpt from a poem in Arabic (translated) by the great Egyptian Sufi saint Ibn al Farid about the Prophet. It is one of his masterpieces:
A sword his eyelids draw against my heart, and I see the
very languor thereof doth whet its blade;
All the more sheds he suddenly our blood, picturing them
that Musawir slew among the Beni Yazdadh.
No wonder is it, that he sould have taken the hairs upon
his cheeks to be the suspender-thongs of his sword, seeing
that he is ever smiting and slaying therewith...
The sun`s self, yea, and the graceful gazelle submit humbly
before his face as he gazes about him, and take refuge
and shelter in his beauty... The harshness of his
heart rivals the tempered steel.
The mole upon his cheek embraces in its conflagration what
man soever is passionately occupied with him, and scorneth
to seek delivrance.
Ice-cool are his deep red lips, and sweet his mouth to kiss
in the morning, yea, even before the toothpick`s
cleansing excelling the musk in fragrance and investing it
with its own perfume.
Of his mouth and his glances cometh my intoxication; nay,
but I see a wintner in his every limb.
(Arberry translation, 1956:46-47)
So you see such veneration is NOT due to Hindu influences.
**
kaalchakra: your ideas about sufis are wrong. Sufism is the core of traditional Sunni Islam and has its origins in Arabia not in India so what of Hindu influence?!
Thanks for your question. The brief answer is no. Such sensual and sensitive Sufi poetry is not just local to India or due to Hindu influence but is found historically throughout the Islamic world from Marakkesh to Indonesia. Arabic and, especially, Persian are full of Muslim poetry eulogising the Prophet (peace be upon him) in similar terms. Just to give you two names: the greatest such eulogist in Arabic is Ibn al Farid whose Diwan is choc-a-bloc of such poetry and the Persian language is inundated with such works: Rumi, Hafiz, Sa`adi, and, perhaps, above all Jami just to mention a few. Turkish has Yunus Emre and many others too. Punjabi has many examples too. Indeed, this poetry is a distinct genre in Islamic poetry. Anne Marie Schimmel has written a brilliant book about it entitled And Muhammad is His Messenger: Veneration of the Prophet in Islamic Piety .
Here is an excerpt from a poem in Arabic (translated) by the great Egyptian Sufi saint Ibn al Farid about the Prophet. It is one of his masterpieces:
A sword his eyelids draw against my heart, and I see the
very languor thereof doth whet its blade;
All the more sheds he suddenly our blood, picturing them
that Musawir slew among the Beni Yazdadh.
No wonder is it, that he sould have taken the hairs upon
his cheeks to be the suspender-thongs of his sword, seeing
that he is ever smiting and slaying therewith...
The sun`s self, yea, and the graceful gazelle submit humbly
before his face as he gazes about him, and take refuge
and shelter in his beauty... The harshness of his
heart rivals the tempered steel.
The mole upon his cheek embraces in its conflagration what
man soever is passionately occupied with him, and scorneth
to seek delivrance.
Ice-cool are his deep red lips, and sweet his mouth to kiss
in the morning, yea, even before the toothpick`s
cleansing excelling the musk in fragrance and investing it
with its own perfume.
Of his mouth and his glances cometh my intoxication; nay,
but I see a wintner in his every limb.
(Arberry translation, 1956:46-47)
So you see such veneration is NOT due to Hindu influences.
**
kaalchakra: your ideas about sufis are wrong. Sufism is the core of traditional Sunni Islam and has its origins in Arabia not in India so what of Hindu influence?!
#6 Posted by KaalChakra on April 22, 2006 10:50:42 pm
In the truest sense, Sufis are the kuttas that don`t wish to live at the ghar of Hinduism but lack the courage to go to the ghat of Islam.
Hindu sensitivity within the Islamic context - an utterly, obscenely confused and dishonest combination.
Hindu sensitivity within the Islamic context - an utterly, obscenely confused and dishonest combination.
#5 Posted by harimau on April 22, 2006 4:56:44 pm
Dear Mr. Naqshbandi,
I don`t understand Urdu so I read the English translation. It is very nice.
My recollection is of poems/slokas by Hindu scholars extolling Hindu Gods or Goddesses.
Which of course raises the interesting question: do this and similar poems reflect an Indiani-izing influence on Muslim scholars? Meaning, do we have similar poems from Arabia, Persia, Iraq, Egypt and other Islamic countries? Or was Ala Hazrat Imam Ahmad Riza Khan Barelvi inspired to write this and similar poems when he heard (and understood) the praises to Rama or Krishna sung by people of his locality?
THank you very much.
I don`t understand Urdu so I read the English translation. It is very nice.
My recollection is of poems/slokas by Hindu scholars extolling Hindu Gods or Goddesses.
Which of course raises the interesting question: do this and similar poems reflect an Indiani-izing influence on Muslim scholars? Meaning, do we have similar poems from Arabia, Persia, Iraq, Egypt and other Islamic countries? Or was Ala Hazrat Imam Ahmad Riza Khan Barelvi inspired to write this and similar poems when he heard (and understood) the praises to Rama or Krishna sung by people of his locality?
THank you very much.
#4 Posted by Naqshbandi on April 22, 2006 4:41:38 am
Thanks BJ Kumar for your constructive comments.
I like the ``I salute`` translation too although it doesn`t quite correspond to the author`s intent I think.
Yes it is often possible to read Urdu Sufi poetry as either temporal or addressed to the Divine Beloved. That is part of its charm.
Ala Hazrat from Bareilly in UP was a great man. The original translation, selection of verses (the actual poem is 270 verses long), initial literary translation, then poetic translation, then the final changing the words so that it became metrically correct all took about a whole weekend of full time effort in terms of hours!
***
I know that most Chowkies aren`t attracted to such matters. But, lovers of Urdu language should enjoy this poem just for its sublime language. That it contains oceans of Islamic knowledge and references to countless hadith, events from the Prophet`s life and qur`anic verse allusions is part of ala hazrat`s greatness as a scholar!
Commentaries running to hundreds of pages have been written on this Salam in Urdu!
I like the ``I salute`` translation too although it doesn`t quite correspond to the author`s intent I think.
Yes it is often possible to read Urdu Sufi poetry as either temporal or addressed to the Divine Beloved. That is part of its charm.
Ala Hazrat from Bareilly in UP was a great man. The original translation, selection of verses (the actual poem is 270 verses long), initial literary translation, then poetic translation, then the final changing the words so that it became metrically correct all took about a whole weekend of full time effort in terms of hours!
***
I know that most Chowkies aren`t attracted to such matters. But, lovers of Urdu language should enjoy this poem just for its sublime language. That it contains oceans of Islamic knowledge and references to countless hadith, events from the Prophet`s life and qur`anic verse allusions is part of ala hazrat`s greatness as a scholar!
Commentaries running to hundreds of pages have been written on this Salam in Urdu!
#3 Posted by bjkumar on April 21, 2006 9:22:15 pm
I liked the Urdu original - in a secular kind of way! In fact, if somebody had given that write-up to me without the introduction, I probably wouldn’t have realized it was written for who it was written for!
Also, I think your translation could have been much better had you used ``I salute`` instead of ``Peace be`` for ``Salaam``! Take this following part, for example:
``How delicate the petals of that beautiful rose!
I salute the exquisiteness of your lips!
From clustered pearls, radiate those roots of light
I salute the enchantment of your stars!
A mouth whose every word: is revelation!
I salute the fount of knowledge and wisdom…..``
And so forth!
You see, then it can do double duty as a love song!
How long did the translation effort take?
Please don`t be discouraged by the response of the crowds here. THIS won`t be the first time!
This crowd is not much into the other-worldly things.
It is more of a Temporal crowd!
#2 Posted by Naqshbandi on April 21, 2006 11:50:19 am
Thanks. I think it is better to translate ``Salam`` as peace be rather than my original of `salutations`; it also fitted better into my scansion scheme.
A lot of hard work went into this--I am slightly disappointed by the response (though not surprised!).
I hope to be rewarded by Him for whom it is written.
A lot of hard work went into this--I am slightly disappointed by the response (though not surprised!).
I hope to be rewarded by Him for whom it is written.
#1 Posted by Inquirer on April 21, 2006 6:12:38 am
Good work, Naqshbandi. Interesting you translated ``salam`` into ``peace be.``
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