Reservations and the Media

well i dont think chowk is a forum.....i think its more of a website......well nice that u want your voice to be heard......i dont know about india........but in pakistanmedia has become alot more free then it was before......print media has been quite open for many decades ( just a few bruises when politicians and rulers try sacking editors and journalists and close down some publishing sites.....) .....it still leaked out alot more facts then the rulers would love....and now with the emergence of private channels( which have been in india for mor ethen a decade now) we can view alot of discussions and debates and alot of issues are discussed........and i hope the caste system is jolted by the end of this decade......

[Perhaps they forget that for four thousand years the Brahmins had simply reserved education for themselves, no one could learn Vedas, none could recite holy mantras, and no one could learn any skill which was not sanctioned by his caste. This was perpetuated with such conviction that even now the upper castes believe that India should revert to old system of Varnas, where they enjoyed all the power and pelf, no questions asked.]

Are you low-caste mufukkas trying to learn the Vedas and become priests at temples?

Do you think Murli Manohar Joshi introduced Sanskrit and the study of Vedic Mathematics at the IITs and IIMs?

What you want is for the Brain-Dead to freeload on top of the hard-working people of India.

If you want a total of 49.5% reservations (22.5% for SC/ST and 27% for OBCs), you should take half the IITs and make them the OBC-IITs. Don`t mix them with regular folks. We don`t want to be polluted by your shadow. And the employers would know which IITs they don`t have to go to for campus interviews.

Don`t mix them with regular folks. We don`t want to be polluted by your shadow. And the employers would know which IITs they don`t have to go to for campus interviews.


ROFL..

Perhaps they forget that for four thousand years the Brahmins had simply reserved education for themselves, no one could learn Vedas, none could recite holy mantras, and no one could learn any skill which was not sanctioned by his caste. This was perpetuated with such conviction that even now the upper castes believe that India should revert to old system of Varnas, where they enjoyed all the power and pelf, no questions asked.

Looks like another commie/Subhash Gatade type rant. Do you know of Valmiki? Of Vishwamitra? Both were not Brahmins, yet were learned in the Vedas and are almost regarded as Gods by all Hindus, more so the Brahmins. So there.

The above examples are not exceptions but the norm. Perhaps, this is due to the fact that ninety-nine percent of the Indian media is controlled by the upper caste and class conscious intelligentsia. Most of the journalists writing and producing stories might have their own constraints and the interests of their own to take care of.


Very true.. We need to come up with a standard so that everyone declares at the end of his/her article / opinion. I belong to this caste and this religion and I believe / don`t believe in it. We can form our own opinions based on that..

i must say that mr behl article is an eye opener the way mr vp singh was removed in the constitunioal or say democratic ``coup`` still haunts me as i belived that he was the first indian leader who was genuinly representing the masses.
but coming back to the article mr behl should have included more ``proofs`` showing the control of indian media by the upper castes i dont see indian express as the only culprit, the entire private sector electronic media is controlled by the upper castes this should have been high lighted so as to add weight to the argument.

saaduddin
karachi

Ref masanamuthu #5

[{The above examples are not exceptions but the norm. Perhaps, this is due to the fact that ninety-nine percent of the Indian media is controlled by the upper caste and class conscious intelligentsia. Most of the journalists writing and producing stories might have their own constraints and the interests of their own to take care of.}

Very true.. We need to come up with a standard so that everyone declares at the end of his/her article / opinion. I belong to this caste and this religion and I believe / don`t believe in it. We can form our own opinions based on that.. ]

At least, we would then have Doctor Artist Leader the Fund of Compassion stating his caste at the end of his daily columns in ``Murasoli``. We would then know what he means by his frequent statements that he comes from a ``very very backward caste``.

My driver thinks that Karunanidhi belongs to the caste of polluted people who blow the conch during funeral processions to warn people to keep away from the procession. Karunanidhi on the other hand has been slowly upgrading his caste and now calls himself a descendant of temple musicians (who are children of devadasis). This lends credence to my driver`s theory that Karunanidhi in fact is a funeral-conch-blower.

My driver of course has good reasons for feeling good about this. You see, he is a Naidu!

PS. I have earlier proudly declared myself on the pages of Chowk to be a Brahmin. So, Masanamuthu, what caste are you? Come on. `fess up!

PPS. Chowk should have 49.5% reservation for SC/ST/OBC/MBC interactors. Would the Chowk Editor take care of this burning issue?

PPS. Muslims should have no more than 5% reservation in terms of number of articles published on Chowk. (This is the percentage of reservations for Muslims in Andhra Pradesh that has been thrown out as unconctitutional by the Andhra High Court).

Re: # 7

Harimau:

I proudly declare that I was born into a caste just ranked above the Dalits coming under the Most Backward Category.. Happy.. :-)). But I don`t believe in caste / religions. would like to be called a humanist..

Bad article, No coherent arguments.

Apart from having a philosophical disagreement to extend reservations to 80% of population (it is not reservation for backward classes anymore, it is reverse-discrimination on forward castes),

the practical application is impossible.

Communities which are considered OBCs in one state are not OBCs in other states.

How do we solve for this?

Thanks,
Avkrishna

And calling all OBCs as being oppressed in India is ridiculous. Many of OBC castes are extremely powerful in almost every domain in their respecitive states,

Thanks,
Avkrishna

Avkrishna,

I can fully understand that only that which corresponds to your wavelength is okay ... everything else is ridiculous..

But I think we should commend the writer for speaking out... it just goes to show the deeply fractured and oppressive society created by Caste Hinduism- despite India having one of the most secular and liberal constitutions in the world. I don`t think Hinduism per se is to blame... it is hardly a monolith.. but the systematic oppression of Indian Scheduled Castes and Dalits shows how humanity continues to be downtrodden oppressed by divisions into ``Achoot`` ``Shudar`` and ``pavitar``...


The above examples are not exceptions but the norm. Perhaps, this is due to the fact that ninety-nine percent of the Indian media is controlled by the upper caste and class conscious intelligentsia.

Mr Behl ... only yesterday a gang of Indians was busy informing me here how the media and education in India was completely free and impartial... but thanks for making this very salient point.

Since we are on the issue of caste- lets go to the source of the problem- Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi ... who in the words of Great Dr Ambedkar was the worst enemy of the untouchables... It was Gandhi who described caste as the great organisation of humanity... please don`t tell me how he used to clean his latrine to show that untouchables were alright... he believed and continued to believe that cleaning latrine was in large the vocation of only untouchables... He apparently relegated himself to their level.. because he wanted to justify oppression. He was working for class and his caste .. by becoming the latrine-cleaning Mahatma , he was telling the untouchables- look this is what life has handed you and this is what you ought to be and there is no shame in it... don`t look to advance in life because this pointless...

This is why Ambedkar hated Gandhi.


-YLH

Mantolives:

LOL..

it is hardly a monolith.. but the systematic oppression of Indian Scheduled Castes and Dalits shows how humanity continues to be downtrodden oppressed by divisions into ``Achoot`` ``Shudar`` and ``pavitar``...


Dude, I think you are stuck in the time of Jinnah. Much water has flown in the Ganges/ Cauvery and even Indus.. Get over it..

No one believes in the BS of ``achoot``/``shudr``/``pavitr``. Mayawati, a ``Dalit`` lady is the most powerful woman of Uttar Pradesh (largest state in India), and her competitor was Mulayam Singh yadav another `Shudra``..

Ofcourse, there is still discrimination in large parts. That would be taken care of in due course.. These reservations/affirmative actions are steps in that direction.. Thanks for your concern though..

It is meaningless to go on and on about Jinnah/ Gandhi etc.. Come out of the ``dream land`` and smell the ``Hasba`` bill in NWFP.. :-))

Re: # 11

````I can fully understand that only that which corresponds to your wavelength is okay ... everything else is ridiculous..````

I know that you didn`t like my comments on DAD in the other thread, but that`s not an excuse for picking up a fight on this topic. I dont profess to be an expert in this topic, but even with the little expertise, I know that you are out of your element and here`s why.

My statement is about OBCs, not SCs and STs.

SC and STs already have 22.5% reservation in all levels of education and govt. jobs, both at central and state level.

However that`s not the case with OBCs. OBCs only have reservations at state level, not at centrail level. OBC lists vary a lot from state to state. There is no uniformly agreed list on the composition of OBCs and here`s a few examples:

Yadavs are backward castes both in terms of influence, wealth, power in AP, but extremely powerful in Bihar

Likewise the dominant caste in Karnataka is a backward caste in AP


Regarding Gandhi-Ambedkar issue, I have seen enough on this, esp. from you on this forum. I have neither time nor inclination to start it all over again.

Thanks,

Baeil (bull) ji,
As far as I know even Ambedkar wanted reservation for SC/ST ONLY. And not every freakin` community that said it had been discriminated against ! Also, this scheme was supposed to be there for 10 years only. So that communities that were weak could be brought upto speed.
And somehow I believe Ambedkar was a giant when compared to pygmies like Arjun Singh.

Anyways, going on about these points is useless. I have mentioned goebbels law on
another thread and it holds true for all times. You had your agenda and you did what you
could.

Sirji, we have achieved all the respect that we have today by investing into our temples of
learning. In these temples - there is NO bar on anyone from entering; as long as they have
the merit. To say that - forget merit, lets stop the brilliant scientist (who might some day
help find a cure for AIDS or who will help design the next generation of our satellites) because he is a (gasp!!) Brahmin - is bad.
It is so bad that in Hindi we have a word for it. CHUTIYAPANTI.

Not doing away with reservations means we are stooping to the same level as the H0m0
Islamus. Only difference is that they reserve most for themselves - and we try to
reserve most for non-meritorious folks.

The good thing is that this does not look like an easy agenda to push through, going by the
voices that are opposing it ... There is more good news - even people like Mayawati have
publicly stated that the new generations of upper castes is different. They give much less
damn about caste then merit.

As for the proposal to actually have reservations in private sector, I got some more good
news for you. Azim Premji has said that there will be NO reservation in WIPRO. These
are all important voices.

The only reservation that should be put in is one based on income. Have 15% reservation
for people with annual income less then 80000 INR. That is something that will ACTUALLY
benifit the needy. But No, nobody is going to support that. This is not going to get votes
for the politicians. No opportunity to divide further on caste/coulour/religion. No
incentive for Baeilji and company to claim how they stood for Dalits or OBCs etc etc...

By the way, Brahmins have not been privileged all the time. Even in the time of Lord
Krishna, there was the poor Sudama... Just keep that in mind.

Abhishek,

You have highlighted the right problem, but came to wrong conclusions:

I agree with you that Forward castes are dominant in various aspects of Private sector (About 95%+ of all Senior Management in Private enterprises are from Forwarad castes)
I wont be surprised to see similar reads among Journalists, Lawyers and other professions.


I disagree with you that the status of OBCs. Though they still face some discrimination from the forward castes in terms of promotions etc, they have a much better deal than SCs and STs. Some of OBC communities are wealthy and very powerful. So I wont be surprised if in some cases, the discrimination comes from them.


Coming back to the main issue,

The public sector, which was the main stay for generations of backward castes is on its way out. So the problem can only worsen.

In this ultra competitive world, left to it`s own, Private sector will not accomodate backward castes in an active manner. ( An intersting anecdote here. Azeem Premji, when he visited our institute was asked by our Socialogy professor whether we are paying a high social cost for IT. You should see his reply. He outrightly dismissed the question and said he doesn`t care about the social cost and that he only cares about the competition. And he CAN be abrupt)

Now how do we take care of Backward castes without endangering the competitiveness of Private enterprises? A very important and tricky issue indeed. Here I am generally against the quotas. Though the spirit of resevations is admirable, we all know it`s been abused over the past 50 years. So let`s try to do it differently. Let`s create an incentive based structure rather than a mandatory one. We should give tax breaks and preferential allotment of goverment contracts for firms which abide by some guidelines in reservations.



Thanks,
Avkrishna

Abhishek,
Your premise in the entire artcile is baseless and does not stand on facts. You are right only in one aspect, i.e. the media is not made of qualified professionals. However to say that since they have their own interests at stake, they oppose reservation is out of touch. After decades of reservation for Sc/ST and OBC`s on the state level, they still control their interests well. The new reservation policy cannot threaten them.

Arjun Singh and co. are retards who wish to solve problems of caste oppression which exists primarily in villages, by providng quotas in IIT`s/IIM`s and private sector. Try to correlate a rural, illeterate oppressed villager with an opportunity in IIT or private sector and inform the chowkies of its benefits. These politicians in the congress live in a culture of corruption and bribery. Unfortunately, they extend their bribe giving habits by creating such reservation policies.

The best way to solve this problem in the villages or other areas is by keeping everyone illeterate and providing reservation at IIT`s.

By the way jats in rajasthan (who are primarily land owners) now come under OBC`s. I think soon Brahmins will have to fight to get reservations too.

Lastly, a lot of oppression in the past by upper castes cannot translate into a reservation for jobs. By that logic, all hindus, sikhs and jains oppressed by muslims also should get reservation in educational institutes and jobs.