Celebrity Courts and Kangaroo Justice

Re: # 83

Editor in Chief,

Kindly remind your lapdogs Zeena and Chuhan to ``stick to the subject``. The discussion of feminism as a whole is not relevant to the weak analogy comparing media outlets to ``nautch girls``. Also, as moderator of the board, please note that I have SEVERAL times reminded interactors like arjun, dilli and zeena to take their tangents elsewhere. Why you have chosen to ignore this and try to scold me is apparent to all.

Re: # 79:

I did not accuse you of going off at a tangent...we were discussing the nature of truth wrt the article. When I talked about marrying morality to it, there was already a reference about high moral ground in one case I mentioned.
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#80 by Saminasha:

Just to remind you that as the writer of the piece and the moderator here, should anyone wish to make comments about feminism (which you started, incidentally), then they are free to do so. You cannot decide that. You may point it out if they are abusive.

Re. what you send to feedback about something on UP, once you have done so there is no need to bring it up here and draw attention. Feedback forum is good enough for that. Do not try and disrupt boards. Stick to the subject.

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

Wow! Lots of fem mud-wrestling here .. better get out fast!!!

Re: # 74

Arjun SAHIB,

1. I am not here to waste my time educating you on logical fallacies. If you have the spine, post your claims (examples of capitalism being THE ONLY WAY!!!!!!) ON UP and MAYBE I will respond IF I have the time.

Zeena and Chuhan,

Please flail drooling at someone else with your tangential comments re: feminism. Also, Editor in Chief, please note that I have submitted in the feedback forum the thread in which chuhan has referred to an interactor as a ``urinal`` by name.

# 77
FV

Here is what I stated in my post # 71{{{{If, they have suspicion then they obviously lack truth. Truth is the actual fabric(matrix) based on the strands of facts, and facts are supported by evidence. With out evidence facts become suspicious and lack validity to be truthful.

In some cases , they intentionally hide the evidence to convert truth in to doubt. When they become successful in creating doubt , they get the BENEFIT OF DOUBT. Unfortunatley 1:-criminal justice has it`s flaw, it needs evidence of proof to validate the truth. And, those who are rich , powerful, resourceful are the most beneficial of the BENEFIT OF DOUBT.

Poors, weak are the ones who become preys and BENEFIT OF DOUBT becomes predator, even if they have the TRUTH. This is the sad reality.

This is so obvious in the cases that you mentioned in your article.}}}

FV

#1:-My points were very much related to your article. I never had any intentions to be[[going off tangent}}.......

#2:-{[If we marry it with morality}}...Where did this come from? I did not mention any moral grounds in my post to prove the truth for poor people in third world countries , where they are preys of criminal injustice.............I just gave facts about some flaws in criminal justice in these countries BASED ON YOUR ARTICLE AT HAND..........................One of the biggest fact is BENEFIT OF DOUBT, which is the most favourite for rich and powerful against poors and weak , merely a fact again based on your article.......................

#3:- My opinion is,{{You only tell the truth when you remember everything}}.......related to this article if, poors and weak will kneel down in front of criminal injustice with out remembering their tortures and sufferings with extreme fear of speaking truth and getting more punishment that will provoke more criminal injustice and more chaos in the so, called democratic society and Govt. Someone has to speak the truth to save their future generations from the cruel claws of criminal injustice.

And, they will only speak the truth, if they will REMEMBER their sufferings , their tortures . If they remember their rights as equal humans, not any inferior than those in power which are the main cause of this social and criminal injustice...............

#4:- My opinion is those poor and oppressed people should not forget their sufferings , if they will forget they will never be able to stop this vicious circle of social and criminal injustice........again related to your article.

#5:- Yes, they need to know everything to have self awareness. If they will not have self awareness , how will they be able to stand up for their rights? If they will be in darkness they will always play the role of passive beings who surrender their basic rights for the happiness of their crusaders..................

PS:- I personally loved your quotes. If we see them other than this article.

take care

#77 Farzana Versey {``Since this is not the subject here, I would love to see an article on why a reference to nautch girls as a metaphor is anti-feminist.
This is one way to seriously discuss the subject; perhaps the only sensible way. For that you need to be able to develop an opinion on the subject and not just a reaction to a comment.``}

Farzana,
I think that we are in agreement on your use of the ``nautch girl`` simile. As far as serious discussion on the subject, I have always supported this art form and protected those who practiced it. There is too much bickering, rigidity, and violence in this world and we need something better to make it go round and round.

#67 by Zeena:

The concept and practice of truth is an interesting idea, especially if we marry it with morality -- real or false. Several philosophical ideas can be discussed, but we would be going off-tangent.

Here are a couple of quotes...

``If you tell the truth, you don`t have to remember anything.``

``Remember not to forget that which you do not need to know.``
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#72 by Salim_Chauhan:

And then, would we be able to use terms like `prostituting talent`...and heave-ho...may we dare to suffer from `impotent rage`?

In post # 60, I had stated, ``Feminism is not the fiefdom of one kind of thought dictators. Nautch girls have existed and sought patronage; these patrons decided on the fate of art and culture during their time. I agree it was before our time, but learning a bit from history does not hurt.``
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Since this is not the subject here, I would love to see an article on why a reference to nautch girls as a metaphor is anti-feminist.

This is one way to seriously discuss the subject; perhaps the only sensible way. For that you need to be able to develop an opinion on the subject and not just a reaction to a comment.

Re: # 75:

[further I could not see any reason why Salman Khan the hunter be considered as a poor `prey`]

Quoes from my article...

``I have used the word ‘prey’ studiedly to draw attention to the flipside.``

``Are guinea pigs the solution? If the System has the nerve, then it ought to flex its muscles on a regular basis.``

``At the Ranthambore Tiger Reserve, where I met the then director Fatehsingh Rathore, there was a move to create a boundary wall and renovate fences to protect the Park from villagers illegally grazing their cattle, destroying the habitat and poaching.``

``The problem is environmentalists target the group they know they can make the most of. Even though less that half the available land is put to use – the rest being wasteland – the rural areas are spared the spiel.``

``How many poor tribals/commoners are even aware of the concept of justice, leave alone fighting for it?``

[the track record of bollywood in addressing such serious public issues may be poor but if someone tried to make amends to that then we need not shout him down.......OTOH I would like to see every Amir Khan, Hritik Roshans or Salman Khan using their public visibility to bring more such issues to the lime light and fore front of public discussion.............. ]

Asking questions is not shutting anyone down. I wonder how many people are going to be discussing this subject, not as drawing room chatter, but on an ongoing basis. Will such discussion lead to action? Woudl this eman that the `real` workers like Medha will be sidelined and a celeb get away with all the credit?

I have given a detailed reply already. No point in repeating it.

PS: You have juxtaposed the `they` of the secodn segment, which dealt with several tangential issues with the Salman case, which is not the same `they`.

Best wishes....

```They’ are not interested. ``

My point is that if some celebrity from bollywood now shows an interest NBA or any other issue we need not assume a mens -rea................... the track record of bollywood in addressing such serious public issues may be poor but if someone tried to make amends to that then we need not shout him down.......OTOH I would like to see every Amir Khan, Hritik Roshans or Salman Khan using their public visibility to bring more such issues to the lime light and fore front of public discussion..............

further I could not see any reason why Salman Khan the hunter be considered as a poor `prey`....... if some court wants to give an exemplery punishment for a law which already provides for stringent punishment then you cannot charge the justice system of working under some sort of communal duress from the bishnoi community............if you think that 5 years for killing of a black deer is not alright not then please change the law............and if Salman did not know that then, as they say, ignorance is no excuse........

#69 by Saminasha on April 19, 2006 3:25pm PT


Please look up the definitions of circular reasoning


This isn`t your classroom where you can hand out homework assignments...

YOU claimed it was circular reasoning..by any standard of intelligent debate, it`s incumbent upon you to prove my post was circular reasoning.

All in all,

I am glad to see that immature, arrogant ba$tard Salman Khan finally going to Jail. Hope nothing else changes in the last minute,

Thanks,
Avkrishna

Farzana Versey {``News channels are behaving like nautch girls.``}

Much is being made about the author`s use of the word ``nautch girls.`` To me it means that the news channels are catering to the most generous or obliging patrons/topics. In other words, whatever is the rage today; those who pander the most to that rage will get the most coverage. The author is using this phrase much like one would refer to a ``weather cock`` to imply behavior in relation to wind direction. Nothing in the use of this simile justifies concern for a feminist issue. I think that the detractor in this case is demonstrating that she is stuck in left field long after the game is over.

#70
Saminasha sahiba

Let me remind you the fact that this article is not about me and my vocabulary. This article is about criminal injustice. I don`t have anything to get even with you for your battle grounds.

Be my guest if you wish to discuss the topic at hand.

Press is absolutely not being compared with nautch girls the way you are trying to convolute the facts to make it look like they are being manipulated in this article.


Well, the fact is you are trying to manipulate them for your own insecurities. Nautch girls are always patronized by some cults, they don`t work independently or willingly most of the times, they are like( KHUTPUTLLIES) means PUPPETS, their strands are in someone else`s hands. Unfortuantely they don`t earn any credit for their hard work, their hard work doesn`t pay them , the cult at their back get paid.

Same way some news channels work for some powerful and resourceful cults (as their patrons)and play as their puppets on their tunes.

No, dear
your approach is not right . Well , what can I say? We see negative or positive depending on our mind`s approach. You are entitled to your opinion, so, am I
Peace.

PS:-I learnt all these terms in Pakistan , while you`re just learning on chowk.com. Even living in USA didn`t improve your vocabulary. You should be thankful to chowk. Cut and paste does`t help , try originality. Focus on your weak points, You are the best @ cut and paste. As a teacher don`t you know the most important rule of learning, always focus on your weak points.

Re: # 67

Zeena,

If the press is being compared unfavorably with nautch girls, then you can be rest assured that the nautch girls are not being represented positively. And don`t lecture me on MY feminism Zeena Malka e Azam when you could barely spell the word a few months ago....

Arjun and Zeena,

Please look up the definitions of circular reasoning and false analogy with your examples and post them on up.