South Asian Socialism

#189 Anil

``Digital Reasearch (DR)... no one hears... Microsoft everyone.... IBM went to DR for the operating system... DR founder and his wife chose hang gliding that day... the rest is history... is that how you want to be?``

There are many versions of that fateful day, one being that Kildall wasn`t told who the secret customer of CP/M was and hence didn`t want to sign the non-disclosure agreement. In any case, Gary Kildall did a double take when he found out that MS-DOS was reverse-engineered from CP/M but Bill bought him out.

I think this ``what could have been`` story is over-rated. The business brilliance of Bill Gates shown through when he negotiated with IBM to be allowed to sell MS-DOS to others. Even a decade later IBM still hadn`t figured out that ``it`s the OS, stupid``.

Re: # 186

``But, the individual innovator, whose company has been taken over by these office politicos, has lost. Anybody rememer LOTUS, and how MS stole that and created Excel. Office mafias are just that they steal. ``

Sadly, history starts with your memory... VisiCalc started it all.... LOTUS won... EXCEL prevailed. It is all part of the game. There were predecessor to Einstein`s theory of relativity too, on which he developed his thought process. IBM was not the first to come with computers either.... do you know who was the first?

The rule is if you want name, as you do.... then ensure to choose the right fight .... in street fighter`s lingo...

Digital Reasearch (DR)... no one hears... Microsoft everyone.... IBM went to DR for the operating system... DR founder and his wife chose hang gliding that day... the rest is history... is that how you want to be?

Anil

#184 Pardesi writes <<< On the positive side - people regroup very quickly, they are fair to each other and they take their sense of responsibility to the world and each other very seriously. >>>

Which world are you living in? The world of the small town wild west where power and control was tiny and diverse,the people`s guns were as big as the sheriffs as against now when power, wealth and ownership has become ultra concentrated and the control, including mind control, desire control, aspiration control on people is all encompassing and bureaucratized? The mass society in the US is effectively controlled through a media and such levels of propaganda never seen before in human history while most decisions of national and global consequence are made inspite of them by a tiny elite that have a social profile quite alike regardless of party affiliation. Wealth is what defines the political economy of the US and if people were such movers and shakers the top 1% would never be able to command greater wealth than the rest of the 99% combined, neither would the class structure be intergenerationally permanent, nor would two parties with little difference, both circumscribed by wealth and corporate power, define the political scene, nor would wars be conducted with such ease or jobs relocated by the millions or health care and food security denied to the many, or corporate welfare and deficit spending that benefits the corporations pushed to the max while high gas prices forced on the masses. Get real, the people in the US are like cattle, prodded in whatever direction the corporate elite want them to go.

tahmed writes <<< is the cultural ethos of a people along with their system of governance that ultimately determines the overall productivity-level of a society. >>>

Nonsense once again, what do you know of the cultural ethos? and what culture defines the America of today, an America in which social tradition has been colonized by corporate nonsense that is forced on people from every direction, families have been dismantled to be replaced by the company for whom the person lives and spends the best, most alert hours of thier lives, and for whom he dies in many wars conducted for just such greed. Corporate greed and shenanigans and their rule in the political directorate by fact and proxy determines the size of the national economy, built upon the backs of the poor to whom they deny basic necessities like health care and nutrition and decent education because it would cut into their profits and ensure that their stranglehold on the people exists no more. Given its wealth this country is a disgrace not only among the developed nations in how it behaves but among the world at large. As a factor of its GNI, it has disgraceful numbers all across the board, regarding the poverty that exists here, compared to even the poorest of the poor nations. F this cultural ethos and shame on shameless idolators like you for worshipping it.

#185 by SR on May 16, 2006 4:27pm PT

{On the floor of the United States House, the Republican Representative from the 14th Congressional District in Texas,.....}

FYI....Congressman Ron Paul is more a Libertarian than Republican.

Respectfully submitted,

Hey, where is Hamid?

Thank you, Pardesi, for such an eloquent post. Yes, this is exactly how I feel. As for the poor capitalist (oxymoron), he is being shafted by the whole executive management teams. Yes, there are probably over 75,000 corporations on NYSE, NASDAQ, and all the other boards in the world.

But, the individual innovator, whose company has been taken over by these office politicos, has lost. Anybody rememer LOTUS, and how MS stole that and created Excel. Office mafias are just that they steal.

HP, you are totally wrong. It was the MLK march that created some degree of minority rights and participation in the economic system. Actually, the opportunity is there for all of us to take care of our individual needs, and I am not ranting about that.

What I am ranting is that corporatists has always been Johnny come late to the party. As Pardesi suggests in his post, it is the American people, and when they say enough is enough, then these corporatists @ss are on fire.

One specific example is this new immigration issue that is being discussed in the country. Washington politicians are talking about blah, blah, blah. I have yet to meet a single white anglo, who votes, to be for amnesty. And heck, I live in the most liberal city of my state. So what are these politicians talking about. If they are not Steve Forbes` mouth piece and his coporatist blow horn magazine, then what else is there? Who supports poor mexicans at less than human wages, but the MNC of Monsato or ADM?

Yes, maybe we will end into another kind of debate, but individuals, and only individual`s capitalism is good for the world, and corporatists are the evil (using, my favorite GW`s vocabulary).

Management by the nature of its structure can not collectively be good for the investor. This is basic MBA 101.

Enjoy reading my rants,

Respectfully submitted,

The Empire and its Dollar Hegemony

On the floor of the United States House, the Republican Representative from the 14th Congressional District in Texas, always has interesting things to say whenever its his turn to speak. On February 25th he spoke about the Dollar Hegemony and the United States role as a modern day world Empire.

Following is an excerpt:

Though money developed naturally in the marketplace, as governments grew in power they assumed monopoly control over money. Sometimes governments succeeded in guaranteeing the quality and purity of gold, but in time governments learned to outspend their revenues. New or higher taxes always incurred the disapproval of the people, so it wasn’t long before Kings and Caesars learned how to inflate their currencies by reducing the amount of gold in each coin-- always hoping their subjects wouldn’t discover the fraud. But the people always did, and they strenuously objected.

This helped pressure leaders to seek more gold by conquering other nations. The people became accustomed to living beyond their means, and enjoyed the circuses and bread. Financing extravagances by conquering foreign lands seemed a logical alternative to working harder and producing more. Besides, conquering nations not only brought home gold, they brought home slaves as well. Taxing the people in conquered territories also provided an incentive to build empires. This system of government worked well for a while, but the moral decline of the people led to an unwillingness to produce for themselves. There was a limit to the number of countries that could be sacked for their wealth, and this always brought empires to an end. When gold no longer could be obtained, their military might crumbled. In those days those who held the gold truly wrote the rules and lived well.

That general rule has held fast throughout the ages. When gold was used, and the rules protected honest commerce, productive nations thrived. Whenever wealthy nations-- those with powerful armies and gold-- strived only for empire and easy fortunes to support welfare at home, those nations failed.

Today the principles are the same, but the process is quite different. Gold no longer is the currency of the realm; paper is. The truth now is: “He who prints the money makes the rules”-- at least for the time being. Although gold is not used, the goals are the same: compel foreign countries to produce and subsidize the country with military superiority and control over the monetary printing presses.

Several paragraphs later the Texas Republican goes on to add this:

In the short run, the issuer of a fiat reserve currency can accrue great economic benefits. In the long run, it poses a threat to the country issuing the world currency. In this case that’s the United States. As long as foreign countries take our dollars in return for real goods, we come out ahead. This is a benefit many in Congress fail to recognize, as they bash China for maintaining a positive trade balance with us. But this leads to a loss of manufacturing jobs to overseas markets, as we become more dependent on others and less self-sufficient. Foreign countries accumulate our dollars due to their high savings rates, and graciously loan them back to us at low interest rates to finance our excessive consumption.

It sounds like a great deal for everyone, except the time will come when our dollars-- due to their depreciation-- will be received less enthusiastically or even be rejected by foreign countries. That could create a whole new ballgame and force us to pay a price for living beyond our means and our production. The shift in sentiment regarding the dollar has already started, but the worst is yet to come.



The full text of his rather longish speach is posted at: THIS SITE

Agree with him or not, its an alternative perspective, that the loyalists could do well to consider.

...SR

Behram1, if it’s any consolation, John Bogle, founder of Vanguard, is on same wave length as you.

He is all over the place on the talk shows with his new book on how corporate chiefs are failing America. He was pretty convincing, at least to me. He said that corporate directors are not doing the job they are supposed to do – hold CEOs accountable. As we know, all these CEOs are on each other’s boards and therefore it has become almost like robbers’ club. He is asking fund managers to look after investors’ interests since 65% or so shares are now owned by institutions. After his life long campaign against fund managers’ over blown expenses, he is now on this new mission.

This internal American debate however, should not be cause of any satisfaction to those who either hate America or think it’s all over for USA. This country’s institutions work like automated feed back control system and they correct themselves. As people feel the pain, they will adjust their behavior, demand and force their leadership to act. We have huge number of problems (e.g., Medicare expenses, entitlement mentality, substandard public education, complex and unproductive tax system, overblown sense of global sheriff mentality) but the pain has not grown high enough yet. On the positive side - people regroup very quickly, they are fair to each other and they take their sense of responsibility to the world and each other very seriously.

Let’s wait; I have faith in American ingenuity.

Great debate between hamidm, HP and behram. I think you are all partly right (i.e. hamidm and HP in crediting corporations, behram in crediting individual innovators like Tesla), with behram coming closest to the truth (with some inaccuracy) I think when he writes: The luxury that the US corporatists had, is not because of their ingenuity. It was because of the American people and their system of governance. And they are mad as hell at the shenanigans of those corporatists.

I think the parts in bold above are correct - it is the cultural ethos of a people along with their system of governance that ultimately determines the overall productivity-level of a society. The rest of the italicized quotes from behram are not correct I think: of course US (and non-US) corporations have demonstrated tremendous ingenuity and literally moved the world economy from the agricultural stage to the industrial and the information age. And it is mere rhetoric to say that the American people are mad as hell at the shenanigans of the corporations.

Hope these two bits to this learned debate helps. :-)

hamidm writes <<< ...... let me tell you something about productivity .......... if us manufacturing productivity has gone up a 100% in the last 20 years it is because of guys like me and our clients, the ``corporatists`` who have invested billions of dollars in plant and equipment ........ >>>

A.Hs like you are responsible for lining their pockets out of what lawfully belongs to the workers working in mean conditions and going back home with a wage that has hardly kept pace with cost of living increases in the past 30 years. You are once again, in your dimwit fashion confusing productivity of individuals with aggregate nation wide data. Technology is a part of the increase but only a PART of it. We can look at productivity gains during the past 5 years alone when there has been a net loss of manufacturing jobs and conclude as I did. You and your ilk want to treat the workers as a cog in a machine in the Fredrick Taylor-esk Scientific Management mumbo jumbo while the coroprations make enormous profits on their backs and do not invest as much in their own workers as they do in speculative investment and consolidation to further increase their power and wealth, and behram sahib still thinks that the US political establishment will rescue us all when it was purchased as a consolidation move, run by corporate executives, long time back.

Behram,

There are more than 1000 US corporations with revenue over $1 Billion.
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/full_list/

You may not even have heard abt the last on the list.
1000 Regal-Beloit Rev 1,428.7

There are thousands others that do over $100 million every year.
You picked just a few. Not every citizen is a model citizen. But the overwhelming majority is decent and honest. Among the thousands and thousands of companies you find a few to malign all with a long brush.

“And heck, I am a Republican.”

What kind? There are plenty of views within the Republican Party.
I am a libertarian, if that means something to you.

“an individual Ken Lay of Enron could be a very nice person”

I never said anything abt what people were personally. I don’t know them personally too but you need to look at the overall culture and 90% of corporations provide a positive culture for growth. They help out in the community affairs and they actively promote minorities and their businesses. It may have started out as following the legislature or the regulations but now the whole thing is a part of the US corporate culture. And corporations are taking that abroad too by promoting equal opportunity and work place tolerance in countries where class and caste hierarchies are well entrenched.

Btw, majority of minority businesses are still at the low end. Some have come up and others are coming up fast. So your gripe abt discrimination is just that.

“What do we see with GM and their begging the American people to take over their benefit package? Do we not remeber Jimmy Carter`s bail out of Chrysler? Corporations are doomed to failure, albeit a slow death. And it is fashionable for people in the US to be against Walmart.”

Companies die because of bad business practices or they lose the ability to compete in the market for several reasons. Failures of a few companies or bailouts don’t mean a whole lot. Every year thousands of businesses die in the US and that has not stopped the other thousands to start new businesses. That is capitalism for you and the new breed of corporate leaders are taking the system to the new heights and making it more democratic.

Lee Iacocca turned the whole Chrysler around and he started out as a car salesman. Chrysler is still around and GM may go under or maybe bought out by some other corp. That is business for you. Companies are not going to close shops because GM is in loss or made bad decisions some thirty years ago.

Sorry Walmart is a bad citizen. They can’t use govt programs to subsidize their HR operations. They need to do what all major corporations do. Though they are changing and that is the sign of democracy in the corporate world.

“Nadirshaw Eduljee Dinshaw was a capitalists and all his contribution was taken away by the regime.”

Good man. College still bears his name. I think he was not even alive when NED was taken over. But these are just limited individual acts they can’t come near what corporations do. All major NGOs/Non profits are supported by the corporation and the scope of work is just gigantic.

Corporations are good for business and good for America. No one wants to work in sweatshops anymore. The kind they used to, when the families controlled wealth in the US.

#178 by behram1 on May 16, 2006 12:35pm PT


Expensive, as compared to his pay?


Umm..if costs go up because of SOX compliance, what`s more likely

1. CEO takes a pay cut
2. Cost is passed on to consumers.
3. Employees will see a smaller pay hike or some will get laid off..


the CEO has to acknowledge the accounting procedure that he submits to the shareholders. He has to validate whatever the heck he is saying. He must take responsibility of his job.


You clearly have not been involved in a SOX compliance exercise..It`s not the CEOs bitching about it..the CEO will just issue a decree demanding compliance because his bazillion stock options depend on compliance..It`s the average worker bee who has to deal with the crap..

If anything, the deloitte will give the CEO tickets to sporting events in exchange for them getting a SOX consulting gig...

re#174, #175
The disagreement b/w Zeemax and Arjun is probably due to
misunderstanding about billionaires in rupees vs billionaires in
US dollars???

I don`t see any one with Pak citizenship in Forbes list of some 750 billionaires.

Re: # 171 by arjun_m on May 16, 2006 9:30am PT

{Because it creates an undue burden without solving the problem..and it was a law passed to make it seem like congress is doing something, not to actually fix anything..

The GAO says the cost of compliance is higher than what congress estimated...

Above all, SOX is a gift for the corporate consulting companies like Deloitte... }

Expensive, as compared to his pay?

No, my dear Arjun, Corporatists don`t like it because, the CEO has to acknowledge the accounting procedure that he submits to the shareholders. He has to validate whatever the heck he is saying. He must take responsibility of his job.

Re: # 170 by HP on May 16, 2006 8:51am PT

HP:

I am trying to make a distinction between a person who is hired inside corporation at the executive level, on an individual level and the collective group of these executives.

Now, as an individual Ken Lay of Enron could be a very nice person, but heck I don`t know him personally, and hence no comment. But, we all know what Enron did as a corporation. Adelphia Communication`s owner was sent to jail because what his corporation did. And these days they are talking about Huyandai`s owner`s crap in South Korea.

In my opinion, corporations are just like any other bereaucracy. The are not be good for the economy. For corporations, employees are just like disposable diapers.

And heck, I am a Republican.

{But the hard fact is that the corporations and their structure is just the next right step in building capitalism.
(in fact, if marx was alive today, he would have accepted it as progression towards workers ownership.) }

And that is what corporations have developed for individuals to become idiots. What do we see with GM and their begging the American people to take over their benefit package? Do we not remeber Jimmy Carter`s bail out of Chrysler? Corporations are doomed to failure, albeit a slow death. And it is fashionable for people in the US to be against Walmart.

{Corporations are not owned by some super rich families anymore (some still are but their days are numbered) Corporations are abt distributing wealth amongst the middleclass or anyone who can invest his/her dimes in mutual funds. It is the true distribution of wealth though some individuals have benefited from it and have become the new billionaires. }

No.... corporation`s executives get 90% and they keep it as retained earning, and I get a measely 3% in my yearly dividend check, whereas the bandits take away mucho-dollars in the stock option plans. Have you forgotten what Chalmers did with his Cisco stock options, and the shareholders (including me) go shafted with over $70/ share?

All those marketing hypes. BTW, why is GE stock not moving. Jeff Immelt is making all the money he wants, and then some more.

And the three stooges who left Jack Wlech`s umbrella to run other corporations have not fared well either. So much for their Six Sigma nonsense. And all those smart @ss executives play musical chairs at one corporation or the other. Have you seen all these clowns get together and have a seminar series? They express only what the other monkey is saying.

{The “corporatists” are not from some “families” who have inherited wealth. They are the sons and daughters of American middleclass and they lead corporations in the most democratic way possible. Most of the corporations are good citizens and in fact they have taken their work ethics and social responsibilities beyond the US borders. The old families’ ownerships never did anything like that. }

And I never suggested that. They are the ones who are great at playing office politics, but not at building wealth, and that is what a capitalist does best.....is building wealth. You are a naukar or an employee...whether you clean latrines or sit in an a/c office, you are still a naukar. ANd by the very position, you can never be an enterprising person.

Most corporations are not civic minded. Just because you sponsor some stupid marathon does not mean that corporations are good corporate citizen. Laws of the country are continuously violated by the corporatists, under the disguise of qualifications. Why is it that minorities get a very small portion of the corporate revenue from government contracts?

O! yes, they will show that their minorities participation is met, but look deeper and you will find that janitorial work is going for minorities, and management consulting is going to white female companies.

{Just checkout how responsible the US corporations are in the third world where business ethics are most questionable. The US corporations have introduced better hiring practices, better work environments and improved upon the sweatshop environments that are readily seen in the third world countries. }

O! yes! Rubbish, totally. The environmental revolution was started by an individual, and not some stupid corporate executive. Who is constantly ranting against killings of animal for furs, etc?

{If the corporatists, that are being chided here, would invest in there, the first thing would be the change in the work conditions for those poor folks. The old school capitalists would never do that. }

Nadirshaw Eduljee Dinshaw was a capitalists and all his contribution was taken away by the regime. Dawood Engineering College was a Capitalist and all his contribution was taken away by the regime. Adamjee Science College was a Capitalist and all his contribution was taken away by the regime.

The luxury that the US corporatists had, is not because of their ingenuity. It was because of the American people and their system of governance. And they are mad as hell at the shenanigans of those corporatists.

Just enjoy reading this rant.

Respectfully submitted,

Isn`t the world waiting for the colonialism & Imperialism of the United Satans of America to end?
Has Ibleeesi Bush not been invited to christianity by AhmediNedjad?

Where there is a murmur of a fall, the thunder is not far.
(Did they ever talk like this earlier?)

Decline and Fall of the American Empire

EDITOR`S NOTE: With laboratory job applications from Chinese American scientists at an all-time low, the future of U.S. weapons production hangs in the balance. Energy officials are busy trying to limit this fallout from the Wen Ho Lee controversy, but only Lee`s release from jail and an apology from the White House will rebuild trust from the Chinese American scientific community, says Pacific News Service commentator George Koo, a business consultant and a member of Committee of 100, a national organization of prominent Chinese Americans The Wen Ho Lee case could become the historical marker associated with the beginning of the decline of U.S. hegemony over the world. Some historians attribute the decline and fall of the Roman Empire to the introduction of lead utensils for use by the privileged class. While the resulting lead-induced sterility and lunacy was self-inflicted, at least it was out of ignorance
..continued (click above)

as Iqbal wrote so prophetically:``tuumharee tehzeeb, upnay khanjar sey, aap hee...``

facts from an alternate universe don`t count..

http://www.forbes.com/billionaires/