South Asian Socialism

hamidm, Pardesi, Behram1,

All this chart means is that if your 1 US$ was worth 100 cents in 1982, it is still worth about 97 cents. Purchasing power is a function of interest rates minus inflation and is only eroded by inflation if there are `negative` interest rates, and NOT if the `Real` interest rates remain positive throughout. This is the case in USA. The US Fed has always targeted domestic inflation very effectively as its top priority.

Re Behram`s point re `huge credit liability`, this is also an imagined myth. Let`s examine his issue.

The total consumer credit outstanding as of March 2006 is $ 2.16 trillion. That looks huge, but dissect it and it turns out to be rather puny. The total number of US households as per the 2000 census is 105.5 million. Do the simple math for household debt and it comes to $ 20,500/- per household. Is that too much? The 2004 median household income was $ 45,000. The average US household thus owes less than half of their annual earnings.

Let`s drill a bit more into this consumer credit stuff. Out of the total $2.16 trillion, the `revolving` debt is just $ 806 billion i.e. those of you guys who pay only the minimum on credit cards and rollover the rest. The balance of $1.36 trillion is in home mortgages and auto loans i.e. non-revolving and less susceptible to default. So where`s the consumer credit bubble?

The fact is, the US economy is immensely strong. Instead of arguing `it is not`, the question that should be asked is `how did it become to be so?`.

RE#251,

Arjun,
u have a great sense of humor :-))))

u misunderstood the word ``work force``,

in Paki ``work force`` does not mean what u think.......




http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/18/world/africa/18somalia.html


FOREIGN Islamist FIGHTERS Are Reported in SOMALIA


By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: May 18, 2006


NAIROBI, Kenya, May 17 (AP) — A secular alliance of warlords battling fundamentalist Islamic militias in Somalia said Wednesday that the militias were being strengthened by FIGHTERS FROM from the Middle East, PAKISTAN and elsewhere........


``Foreigners were fighting alongside the local terrorists and were killed,`` said Hussein Gutale Ragheh, a spokesman for the alliance.............................

Before the usual suspects start voicing their envy by saying the poor Indians are being exploited, you should know that Pakiland`s prez is begging for Pakiland to produce exploitable pakis...albeit without anything to show for it..

From the mouthpiece of the evil corporatists, the Wall Street Journal..

`Sunnyvale, You Have a Problem`
India`s Latest Outsourcing Frontier
Is Servicing Computer Networks,
But Hurdles Remain
By RASUL BAILAY and PETER WONACOTT
May 18, 2006; Page B2

NOIDA, India -- In the wee hours of a May morning, the computer system for Advanced Micro Devices Inc. started spitting out alerts. The technician taking note was nowhere near AMD`s computer servers in Sunnyvale, Calif., or Austin, Texas. He was working the evening shift from an office cubicle in this suburb of New Delhi.

The latest wrinkle in outsourcing has come to this: The network-computer guy working for American and European companies is an Indian engineer -- working in India. Industry executives think the market for long-distance monitoring of computer networks, dubbed ``remote infrastructure management,`` could be worth tens of billions of dollars, as multinationals try to cut costs and Indian outsourcers tighten security checks on corporate data they manage.

Growth is expected as factories become more computerized and remote services expand to include controlling plant temperatures from afar and even monitoring who enters and exits the premises. ``Theoretically,`` says Azim Premji, chairman and founder of India outsourcing company Wipro Ltd., ``anything on a network can be managed remotely from India.``

The market is still small. Revenue for Indian outsourcing companies from remote infrastructure-management contracts ranges from $300 million to no more than $1 billion a year, according to industry estimates. But the market`s size is set to swell as foreign companies look for ways to slash operation costs by shifting information-technology services abroad. India`s software lobby, the National Association of Software & Service Companies, or Nasscom, estimates that as much as 60% of the business of managing corporate IT systems could be handled from abroad, creating a $55 billion market.

U.S. companies led by International Business Machines Corp. and Electronic Data Systems Corp. in the 1990s pioneered the practice of managing IT systems remotely and still dominate the field. But Indian companies are gaining ground, partly by pricing services as much as 40% cheaper than the likes of IBM, says Vineet Nayar, president of HCL Technologies Ltd., one of India`s biggest outsourcing companies by revenue.

IBM has responded to these threats by beefing up its operations in India and playing to its global strengths. With nine locations around the world and 12 years of experience, IBM is competing on more than just price, says William J. Ireland, an IBM director in Bangalore for global-service delivery for India. IBM`s prices for remote infrastructure management, he adds, ``are extremely competitive.``

Tapping Indian outsourcers for managing computer networks still marks a big leap in faith for foreign companies. Although Indian engineers have long been hired to produce specific software projects or to handle various chores on IT systems, they generally haven`t managed entire networks or production sites before. For many multinationals, this type of outsourcing is loaded with a big question: What is to prevent proprietary information from falling into the wrong hands?

Last year, Indian police arrested employees of outsourcing company MphasiS BFL Ltd. for allegedly stealing $350,000 from the accounts of four Citibank customers in the U.S. Though security lapses also occur in the U.S., the incident fanned fears that data theft could stem from inside Indian software firms. In a recent report, researchers at Gartner Inc. predicted these security concerns would have a detrimental effect on providers` ability to capture new business.

India`s software companies have taken a number of steps to reassure potential customers. Nasscom has trained Indian law-enforcement agencies to detect data theft and is building a database of employees at software companies to make tracking them easier if they commit crimes. The database will include a person`s date of birth, education, family background and a biometric, such as a fingerprint.

``The goal is to reassure customers that their data will be taken care of, perhaps even better than if it was at home,`` says Kiran Karnik, Nasscom`s president.

Shobhit Joshi at HCL is at the front lines of these new computer defenses. The 27-year-old team leader is one of 200 people at HCL who work from a warren of office cubicles monitoring AMD`s computer network from thousands of miles and several time zones away.

When he sees an alert pop up on his flat-panel computer screen, he can usually tell what city it came from. The alerts typically turn out to be false alarms, but they signal potential dangers such as overloading of a server or possible breaches in a network firewall from virus or hacker attacks.

If a genuine threat emerges, he will try to fix it immediately. If he can`t, he will forward it to a group within HCL that specializes in network capacity or security issues. The final option is to alert HCL experts on call.

``We can do everything from here,`` says Mr. Joshi. AMD didn`t respond to requests for comment on work it has outsourced to HCL.

Led by the likes of HCL, Indian companies are making market inroads. In January, HCL signed a multimillion-dollar deal with European retailer DSG International PLC to run its computer systems.

India outsourcing titan Infosys Technologies Ltd. says its infrastructure-management unit has been growing 100% annually from its inception four years ago and is expected to grow as much as 80% a year over the next three years, according to Priti Rao, vice president for infrastructure-management service at Infosys.

I believe this what Behram Gore , after whom he is named, & whose cousin Al Gore is now contemplating to re-enter the Kaakh-e-Sufaid is trying to tell us.

The system of , as it has now become, & which he has aptly termed ``corporatism``, has become incestous & self-serving. The legal-framework to watch-dog over them has , perhaps deliberately, been designed to close the barn door. It is a mirrror-image of the
elected bodies who instead of serving the constituents end up getting lobbied & serve as those who join in the gluttonous feasts.

It is the same syndrome as `` Jobbery`` a term the Quid-i-Azam used to warn the nation about in his, probably, the first address to the nation. The feasting on the nation treasury by those who are supposed to be the very custodians--the bureaucrats & the army.

Prashaad LaDDoos are never eaten by idols. They are consumed by prohats, mahints & Pundits ( read: Chairman, Directors, and CeOs). A corporation is a phantom ``citizen`` created to enjoy all the benefits of a citizen yet cannot be jailed or executed. Unless & until this personal liability exemption is not removed it will continue to rob the nation.

1. All associated with the corporation --read partnership of investors with a label, must be held personally liable.
2. There should be no tax, hence no deductions, either on corporations but only on Individual`s assets & expenses NOT incomes.
3. Only short-term consumable (food clothing), depreciable, & production-oriented machinery & equipment , public projects etc should be exempt from Expense tax.
4. A very stringent credit-rating system for individuals who want to launch to raise money must be publicised in the prospectus alongwith his public service record & genuine community work, if any. Simply making good profits should not be the ONLY criteria.

Voodo astrology witchcraft etc are genuine arts whereas Economics, Psychology and other such sham subjects would be nothing if they are not propped up by licenses & registrations--and jobs (jobbery?). The sunni/shias of economis led by Friedmans & Samuelsons have extinguished the lamps of many a households.

O , purveyor of economics,what else is there in your books, except the chicaneryof rationalising greed & exuses for a blood-bath.........Allama Iqbal.

P.S: I might have rambled, but it is not a rant.:)

#247 behram1

No. All it means is that if I go to buy same basket of goods (e.g., bread, car gas, medical help) it will cost me about twice the number of dollar bills. Some goods have become much more expensive (e.g., medical) while others might not have appreciated so much (e.g., bread). 3-4% is about average as tracked by the government. That`s why social security payments for elders have gone up by similar amount every year.

Whether americans borrow, steal or earn those dollars have nothing to do with it.

Regards.

Pardesi, Zeemax,

Do purchasing power take into consideration the huge credit liability on most americans?

Just curious.

Respectfully submitted,

Zeemax, Khurram,

It seems that some thing is not right with the posted chart.

Inflation has been running at approx 4% from early 80s to early 90s and at 3% or so after that. So, cumulatively dollar has lost at least half of its purchasing power since early 80s.

http://inflationdata.com/Inflation/Inflation_Rate/HistoricalInflation.aspx

Masadi,

OK. One more time, you can be fickle minded as usual, and escape the intelligent enlightened crowd at chowk. I am unable to figure you out, or what your national origin is? Are you a mohajir or an arab? Why does that matter? To have a better understanding of your interacts with you, and also to figure out what is your level of rational mind? I know that you are somebody who constantly writes about that Power Elite book. (granted not on this board). Heck, I picked it up the other day myself, and found it just some commie stupidity.

Now, you have suggested that you are not a communist, and you are not a fundoo. So, what are you? Do you want me to consider you as an intellectual? OK, I will consider you as an intellectual.

But, then again you become religious. You can not be both at the same time. Or can you? Being an intellectual with imbedded religiosity? or a religios person with imbedded intellectual ability?

You decide.

Respectfully submitted,

Re: # 243

... but you have a lot more dollars than in 1982 ...... hopefully if you had a 100 dollars then, you have more than 103 now ! ....... if zeemax is right with his graph than i should be filthy rich - how come i am not ?........ maybe it is because i, like all americans, am spending money like a mad man - all those lattes at starbucks add up, you know ..........

Re: # 243

... but you have a lot more dollars than in 1982 ...... hopefully if you had a 100 dollars then, you have more than 103 now ! ....... if zeemax is right with his graph than i should be filthy rich - how come i am not ?........ maybe it is because i, like all americans, am spending money like a mad man - all those lattes at starbucks add up, you know ..........

Re: # 242 zee
[... Dollar has only lost 3% of its `consumer` purchasing power...]

Dollar has lost purchasing power?... are you sure that graph is correct?... I thought americans are buying more and more stuff ever before...

#240 by khurram

Doesn`t that mean that the purchasing power has been falling every year?

No. The negative numbers mean % change over the base period which is 1982-4. So if the number is -3 now, it means Dollar has only lost 3% of its `consumer` purchasing power (not asset prices) compared to 1982-4.

Isn`t that amazing?

hamidm says that all economics is voodoo. this is largely true. traditional economics (classical, keynsian, neo-classical, monetary) has been rendered largely obsolete due to the information revolution - while classical economics dealt with limited resources that can be consumed, the information resources can be consumed and saved. as Peter Drucker wrote in one of his books, the economics textbook for the information age has yet to be written.

No doubt some brilliant soul like masadi will write that textbook. (just kidding, dont get offended masadi).

Oak and behram: thanks for your responses. I look forward to reading them a bit later when i have mroe time (since i see they are a bit lengthy), and if I feel the urge will also respond to them.

Zeemax #236,

Perhaps you can educate me on how to read this chart.

Looks like the y-axis says ``12 month % change`` and it is all negative numbers. Doesn`t that mean that the purchasing power has been falling every year?

...... all economics is vodoo economics .......

...... so what if the interest goes up to 16% ...... been there, done that and life has always been better ...... in 1981 i bought my first house at 12%, walked into a bank with 5000 dollars and walked out with a 16% cd and a color tv ! ..... i still have that tv as proof that life keeps on getting better regardless of the interest rate .......... next time when i walk out of a bank with a 20% cd, i hope to get a 40 in plasma hdtv !

......... and if toyota takes over gm, it wil be just fine by me - unlike gm, they pay their bills on time, give you nice presents and wine and dine you, and as long as you are not a woman you are safe working with the japanese !

.......at the end of the day, the business folks - corporatists, capitalists, venture capitalists, behram`s beloved entreprneurs and the private equity firms - and not the economists determine what really happens ..........

#235 by SR on May 18, 2006 3:24am PT


Moreovere, the CPI and other government stats can be massaged and doctored and given ever new spins to convince a sufficiently large number of people that inflation is ``under control.``


Dude..Americans aren`t idiots..No amount of supply-demand spin from the right can convince people that gas is cheap..people vote with their wallets..not based on the government reported CPI..

``Kashmir banega pakiland`` wet-dream continues unabated... even in this baord :)))...

SR,

As you always say, one picture is worth a thousand words. It seems purchasing power of US Dollar domestically is the same as 20 years ago, and better than 1984! Of-course that is at the expense of the rest of the world but there you go ...

What inflation are you gentlemen talking about? No one is going to take anyone`s house away.

Area: U.S. city average
Item: Purchasing power of the consumer dollar
Base Period: 1982-84



Source: Bureau of Labor Statistics.

# 228 behram {``...[Bernanke] has no choice but to continue raising interest rates pass the 6.0% level. He must crank it up a little more than the usual 0.25% rise, preferably 0.5% this time. He would not stop now without cooling down this inflation. ...``}

In theory, I agree, that is what he should do. But doing that takes balls of steel. Only Paul Volker had those. Greenspine, and Ben are different animals. They are politicians first and professionals last. They both know (knew) what was right but they are sell-outs and cannot do the right thing because of political pressure.

Ben is really between a rock and a hard place. If he raises interest rates (to fight excess inflation), he risks the economy (due to the housing and stock market dive), on the other hand, if he lowers or even stays put, he hurts the already beleagured dollar. I believe, they will decide to stay put for a while and screw the dollar in order to save the domestic fiction of prosperity. Americans have votes, foreigners don`t. So foreign holders of dollar denominated assets can go to hell. Inflation will rise, yes, but that can be blamed on high oil prices, or terrorism, or whatever else. Moreovere, the CPI and other government stats can be massaged and doctored and given ever new spins to convince a sufficiently large number of people that inflation is ``under control.`` And the party goes on. At least for a while longer.

...SR

Asadi and Behram
Thank you guys!
Okay here is the deal…

Asadi,
Behram needs a tutorial in the “Theory of Surplus value” fast…Could you please type a quick one for him? He is taking economics and finance tutorials at Buzzflash.com. Not good at all. But there is nothing wrong in his rants. He is doing fine just let him be and enjoy his mental exercises. Why be upset abt it. He is going to play with you. He is a purana paapi from Saddar, Karachi.

Go Behram go…


PS. I am rubbing Indian noses in the dust on the Kashmir board. I will just follow this board for fun.
Thanks.

Behram writes in #232 <<< Are you sure that you are not the same person who at the drop of a hat puts forth verses of Quran, etc? >>>

Stereotypical nonsense. I have not mentioned any Quranic verse on this thread or on any discussion that did not deal with the Quran.


Then he writes << Yes, I am totally honest that you have always brought religion into the conversation. I ask you why? Why is it so essential for you to bring your holy books into these types of posts? >>>

You are a liar Behram. I have never brought the Quran into these discussions. Only when A.Hs like you have attacked it have I stepped in to defend it, because your attack was based on nonsense.

Then he writes <<< So are you suggesting that those of us who do not follow your set of beliefs are not enlightened? >>>

Turn your argument on its head and you prove nothing in the process. Little wonder HP finds your rants amusing. You suggested that all non Islamists and non Communists here are ``enlightened``. I mentioned no such thing regarding the other set.

Then he writes <<< Now how would you know what he was thinking? O! are into some trance mode? >>>

It is quite obvious if you read his post to make out what he meant, it requires no trance. Ask him, like I said, if he finds your rants against the corporations enjoyable because of their intellectual quality or their stupidity.

Then he writes <<< O! so now you want to find sympathy for your islamist cause amongst your ilk by establishing your ``geesa pita`` rhetoric....wolf, wolf... this person is against Islam....This nonsense has never worked, so get over it. >>>

Look idiot, I have no ``Islamist cause``, whatever the hell you mean by that. You have made it quite obvious that you are going to use labels and imagined criticism to try to prove your dim wit points, I was just pointing to that. Now move over with your BS and hateful bigotry and let thinking people reason on here.

Re: # 230 by masadi on May 17, 2006 8:21pm PT

{There you go with your labelling and stereotyped horse dung again. I am presenting facts and figures linked by a logical theory and you label it Islamist or Communist in order to discredit it to the many who carry a bad image of the two words because of media portrayal.}

Are you sure that you are not the same person who at the drop of a hat puts forth verses of Quran, etc?

{Is that honest? truthful?}

Yes, I am totally honest that you have always brought religion into the conversation. I ask you why? Why is it so essential for you to bring your holy books into these types of posts?

{ and then out of the blue you label those that do not belong to the set of Islam and Communist as ``enlightened``.}

So are you suggesting that those of us who do not follow your set of beliefs are not enlightened?

{ Who are you trying to deceive? }

I was hoping that you could be be deceived, but you are really some fox...aren`t you? Wiggling your way around in being an Islamist and/or communist, or your power elite.

{You surely don`t have brains enough to deceive me and let me enlighten you a bit.}

You are right about that.

{When HP sahib said he ``enjoys your rants``, he did not mean that he enjoys them due to their ``intellectual quality``. He meant they are halarious because they are outlandishly stupid. Ask him, if you doubt what I said. }

Now how would you know what he was thinking? O! are into some trance mode?

{I have tried to be decent with you in my past posts but your hatred for Islam masks any and every iota of decency that might reside ``between your two ears``. }

O! so now you want to find sympathy for your islamist cause amongst your ilk by establishing your ``geesa pita`` rhetoric....wolf, wolf... this person is against Islam....This nonsense has never worked, so get over it.

This may be tough for you, but be rational human being.

Respectfully submitted,

Long before you began your renewed dim wit rant against the corporation on this thread


Pat ``White man being kept down`` Buchanan duking it out with Osama ``Death to America`` Bin laden?

Oh the joys of chowk interact..

behram writes in #229 <<< But, masadi, you always consider your power elite as your gospel. Is that the same thing as I have been discussing? >>>

The power elite are not my ``gospel``, I write against what they do, and they are part and parcel of corporate capitalism and the resulting bureaucratic society and world system.

Then he writes

<<< So, you are agreeing that I have presented my rants a little nianced than yours. In effect, then you are piggy backing on my arguments. Aren`t you? >>>

I am saying that you totally miss the point when you criticize the corporations but support the rest of the institutional structure that they dominate. Hense you totally miss the point. I would be a damn fool to ``piggy back`` on such half baked knowledge and I do not.

Then he wrote:

<<< See with your Islamist/communist ideology this whole dialogue between enlightened folks could get derailed and some may not enjoy my rants. Are you enjoying my rants? >>>

There you go with your labelling and stereotyped horse dung again. I am presenting facts and figures linked by a logical theory and you label it Islamist or Communist in order to discredit it to the many who carry a bad image of the two words because of media portrayal. Is that honest? truthful? and then out of the blue you label those that do not belong to the set of Islam and Communist as ``enlightened``. Who are you trying to deceive? You surely don`t have brains enough to deceive me and let me enlighten you a bit. When HP sahib said he ``enjoys your rants``, he did not mean that he enjoys them due to their ``intellectual quality``. He meant they are halarious because they are outlandishly stupid. Ask him, if you doubt what I said.

I have tried to be decent with you in my past posts but your hatred for Islam masks any and every iota of decency that might reside ``between your two ears``.

Re: # 227 by masadi on May 17, 2006 7:33pm PT

Masadi:

{The workers create the surplus, they have a greater right to it than the ``capitalist`` who has used his networks of power to usurp the public`s wealth for his maximum benefit.}

OK, the workers used their brawn power and they became productive, so they should be given some bonuses. Should they get all the profits? Some technology companies have shown average revenue of $350,000/employee. Besides salary and benefits package, I would agree with you that they should also get the same percentage of profit from the average revenue. Let`s say if the profit margin for the total corporation is 15%, then each employee should also get 15% of average revenue/ employee or $52,500 per year.

Would you consider that equitable?

{And don`t flatter yourself by suggesting that I ``piggy back`` on your arguments. Long before you began your renewed dim wit rant against the corporation on this thread, I had already stated what I am restating here.}

But, masadi, you always consider your power elite as your gospel. Is that the same thing as I have been discussing?

{And you are a total idiot when you try to attack the corporations while redeeming the US political establishment and trying to promote the ``mom and pop`` capitalism that exists no more except in popular sloganeering of the corporations themselves. }

Of course, my argument must be different than yours. So, you are agreeing that I have presented my rants a little nianced than yours. In effect, then you are piggy backing on my arguments. Aren`t you?

See with your Islamist/communist ideology this whole dialogue between enlightened folks could get derailed and some may not enjoy my rants. Are you enjoying my rants?

Respectfully submitted,

Re: # 224 by SR on May 17, 2006 5:11pm PT

{Will Bernanke raise rates again to offset inflation? -- no way, not with housing tipping over -- and now, the stock market! }

He has no choice but to continue raising interest rates pass the 6.0% level. He must crank it up a little more than the usual 0.25% rise, preferably 0.5% this time. He would not stop now without cooling down this inflation.

Bond prices should remain down until the fed stops raising interest rates.

Enjoy cash position or money market funds, or buy short term CDs stepping it up as interest rates continue to rise. Cash is king at 5%. Enjoy dividend paying stocks.

{And I think it`s going to be deflation of the housing boom in both prices and the number of new houses that will be built. }

Yes, I do agree. There are tough times ahead for the US economy in general. Lot of foreclosures in the housing markets, and finally individual capitalist should win.

Respectfully submitted,

behram writes #226 <<< The capitalist owns the profit, not the workers....your concept is totally for the communist party, and the world is a whole lot better off without that ideology. Please don`t piggy back on my arguments. >>>

The workers create the surplus, they have a greater right to it than the ``capitalist`` who has used his networks of power to usurp the public`s wealth for his maximum benefit. And don`t flatter yourself by suggesting that I ``piggy back`` on your arguments. Long before you began your renewed dim wit rant against the corporation on this thread, I had already stated what I am restating here. And you are a total idiot when you try to attack the corporations while redeeming the US political establishment and trying to promote the ``mom and pop`` capitalism that exists no more except in popular sloganeering of the corporations themselves.

Re: # 220 by Pardesi on May 17, 2006 4:23pm PT

{Seems like Chowkies are going to solve all american problems :) }

Thank you pardesi, I did not intend to solve all american problems :) just enumerate and accentuate the positives of capitalism.

---

Re: # 218 by hamidm2 on May 17, 2006 3:59pm PT

{.... so how do you propose we run GM and GE ? ......}

Frankly, Hamid there is no big deal running any of these major corporation. They have made it seem to us lowly people that they are indipensible. If these guys were so damn smart why can they not start their own businesses, as a genuine capitalist would do?

{ if we give them away to the private equity groups they are more than likely to go out and hire some of the same guys to run the pieces after they are done taking them apart and selling what they can sell ......... }

There you are missing the point by correlating the equity with groups, etc? Groups are the problem....get it! Money managers are no different, they use other people`s money.

{do you think a single individual can run boeing ?............} Yes, why not?

{ walmart is basically owned and run by a family and so is ford - are they your idea of well run companies that take care of old joe six pack ? } If walmart and ford can still be under one family, what is the BFD to run boeing?

Again, you are still stuck with the management of corporations. And that has been my argument all along. Managers by definition means managing other people`s money, and hence they are crooks...(OK not all of them...)

---

Re: #221 by masadi on May 17, 2006 4:46pm PT

{....that fleecing corporations out of the money that rightfully belongs to the workers is ``work``. }

Now, now, masadi, the money rightfully belongs to the owners of the company, the shareholders, and not the workers.....That is where you are totally messed up. Got it. The capitalist owns the profit, not the workers....your concept is totally for the communist party, and the world is a whole lot better off without that ideology. Please don`t piggy back on my arguments.

Respectfully submitted,

#223 by bongdongs

If the company used stock price as the only metric, then they will have to pay per their agreement. Why do I care :). I hope the arrangement was not like NY city transit workers used to have - their retirement was pegged to the final year’s salary + overtime. Fellow workers use to give their share of the overtime to the guys in their final year of work so that their buddies can retire at $100k/year.

Take a look at last week’s Barron. They have rated S&P 500 corporations by “addition to share holder value” that includes growth, total return etc. Lehman and Goldman are at the top, Exxon – 129. I have no problem with somebody earning zillion dollars on stock options if they have done well for their fellow shareholders over longer term, but if guys make 20-30 millions/year, while stock has not done much for many years, that to me is bit unfair.

Re: # 189 Anil {``... IBM went to DR for the operating system... DR founder and his wife chose hang gliding that day... the rest is history... ``}

Not that it really matters, but it wasn`t hang gliding or golf that got in the way of the critical meeting between the DR and IBM top dogs. He had taken the afternoon off and was flying his small plane -- having fun. I head it from the horse`s mouth back in 1993.


#187 behram1 {``... Ron Paul is more a Libertarian than Republican. ...``}

His ideology is more Libertarian, yes, but he is very much a Republican party member and runs on the GOP ticket. This just proves that not all Texas Republicans are idiots or liars. Ron Paul seems to be at least one exception.

# 219 hamidm2 {``... so how do you propose we run GM and GE ?...``}

GE`s time may yet be further into the future, but I doubt if you`ll have to worry much longer for GM. The Japs or the Chinks or some other unsavory characters will have to worry about GM after it finally goes belly up and they buy up its rump for a nickle plus a dime. The bond holders (and other lenders) will be left holding the bag. The stock holders will join the club of MCI and KMT stock owners.

#162 zeemax`s THREE FICTIONS

ONE
{``... Fed doesn`t raise rates to attract investment into the US$. It raises rates to contain inflation and overheating of the economy...``}

TWO
{``...Fed fund rate is ... `neutral` ... in terms of inflation Vs growth at 4.5%. Further raises will go as far as ... 5.5% seems likely...``}


Inflation is always a monetary phenomenon and it is heating up. Even that highly distorted Consumer Price Index was up .6% in April or at a 7.3% annualized rate.

Will Bernanke raise rates again to offset inflation? -- no way, not with housing tipping over -- and now, the stock market!

THREE
{``... no sign of danger to the housing market. ...``}

If I`m to believe the charts, the story is that the housing boom is kaput -- it`s over. Please check out the daily charts of three of the biggest builders in the US -- the Ryland Group, Toll Brothers and Lennar Corp. You don`t have to be a ``technicals`` genius to be able to interpret what these three charts are saying. In a word, it`s ``top-out`` -- and I am not even a chartist, you are the one who trades on technicals.

At any rate, what these charts are telling us, I believe, will show up in the economy and in consumer spending before this year is out. And I think it`s going to be deflation of the housing boom in both prices and the number of new houses that will be built.

Here is your second chance to win that crate of Black Label. Though you were wise to not take my wager when we were arguing over the direction of the US Dollar and Gold, you might get lucky this time.

BTW, I hate to rub it in but the USD has since sunk further and Gold continues to head north, though there should be some (temporary) ``correction`` in the near future.

...SR

#220



1. Pardesi, the above in the 5 year chart for XOM, last quater it made a profit of $8.4 billion.

So would you say Lee Raymond deserves each cent of his $400 million compensation?

Re: # 198

tahmed32

(A) Firstly you should remember that as with any branch of knowledge one should fit an explanation to the trends not the trends to the explanation. So the trend is that income disparity is increasing. This is a fact as I tried to show in #193 even if you do not accept the latter part of the post. At the risk of repeating myself:

> There are continuing trends increasing and continuing to enforce economic disparity as pointed out in the UN Human Development Report of 2005. 2.5 billion people .......< etc etc.

So immigration in and of itself is not reversing this trend. This ought to be accepted between us and this is why it is, as you would put it, ``a drop in the bucket``.

(B) You state regarding foreign remittances:

>The fact is that remittances by immigrants are today a very significant source of ``foreign aid`` to developing countries. They are greater in magnitude than ODA (Official Development Assistance, which includes bilateral as well as multilateral aid) and they come with no political strings attached and in the form of grants rather than loans !!.<

I agree with you that remittances are greater than governmental aid. But this infact demonstrates the paltry nature of foreign aid moreso than the significance of remittances. The UN aims for aid target of 0.7% of GDP. However, we find America giving out aid of 0.1% of GDP and even that selectively and with strings attatched. Only 4 countries meet the target. I agree that remittances are of benefit to any developing country -for example some $300 mn - $400 mn USD are sent back to Pakistan every month. However, this is not enough to reverse the trend of economic disparity. For example, in a seperate discussion with Zeemax we had established that Pak maybe losing upto $1 bn USD / month on an import vs. export basis. As Zeemax put it, this was tantamount `to selling the family silver`. So the disparity is enforced & continuing.

(C) Regarding:

>Your point (2) is invalid too. What used to be called the ``brain drain`` 30 years ago has in fact proved over time to be a ``brain gain`` for developing countries.<

Really? For example, a recent paper by F Mullan in NEJM `The Metrics of the Physician Brain Drain` (2005) established that in terms of, physicians a brain drain is continuing. Some 60,000 Indian & 12,800 Pakistani trained physicians have ended up in the quartet of US, UK, Canada & Australia. When migration of physicians from these countries does occur, it is most likely to one of the other of these countries. So Pakistan has lost over 10% of its total physican workforce, with similar figures throught the rest of the region. This is simply unsustainable and tells us a great deal about why the Pak health service is near to collapse.

(C2) Regarding the brain gain hypothess - this is a theory which has been speculated and possibly does apply in some select industries e.g. IT in India. Granted. No serious authority, however, makes the claim, as you seem to, that this is the predominant trend amongst all industries. What is said is that there is hope, there is a potential for a brain gain to reverse the brain drain. It needs to happen but has not happened yet.

Incidentally even supporters of the `brain gain` hypothesis states that a period of `brain drain` must exist. (See: http://www.ccis-ucsd.org/PUBLICATIONS/wrkg47.PDF). The question is that how long does that period last. For Pak physicians, and most other industries the period shows no signs of abating.

The `brain gain` model may be a way out, but it is not predominant, or even mirror the facts on the ground. There is a large amount of work yet to do before the trend reverses. The take home message: the brain drain is still a dangerous phenomena.

(D) As regards your dispute with me of global corporations increasing/decreasing disparity, this is a genuine disagreement between us. I have referred you to my reference on this matter. I am not going to repeat it because it is long and you would be best served reading the original source. If you can, however, point towards a genuine critique of such a world-view feel free to do so.

With Regards

Musa

hamidm writes in #196 <<< P.s. masadi still does not understand productivity and i don`t have the time ...... we need some sophomore interns on the chowk who can explain these simple things to the pea-brained commies and the brain-dead islamists ....... i think arjun would be a good candiadate - sign him up! >>>

It is just too hard for this A.H to come to terms with the fact that he has spent the last 30 years of his life giving the corporations some c@ck and bull story and taking the cash that belonged to the workers unjustifiably. He has no clue about reading aggregate data and what it shows and how it can be interpreted. As usual he is stuck with the example of his gardener or the few workers he knows whose unrepresentative experience (compared to the rest of the country) he guages through his stereotypical lenses that have adapted to give fake meaning to a life spent working a lie. A pathetic life by a loser who has learned to live with a corrupt immoral conscience that justifies to him that fleecing corporations out of the money that rightfully belongs to the workers is ``work``.

#219 hamidm2

.... so how do you propose we run GM and GE ?

Here is an idea ..

Corporate CEO’s compensation should be 1 Million dollars/year (to pay rent and be able to buy food) + huge compensation based upon say, 5 year performance of the company stock. By the way, one mutual fund company does exactly that – managers’ compensation is based upon rotating four year performance, not quarterly or yearly performance. The fund is very conservatively run with excellent long term performance.

Some variation of this will take care of their temptations towards accounting gimmicks and short term investments decisions. In fact that might be the reason why start up companies use their human capital much better since their Incentive Stock Options wont amount to anything if they make too many unwise short term oriented decisions.

Seems like Chowkies are going to solve all american problems :)

Re: # 218

.... so how do you propose we run GM and GE ? ...... if we give them away to the private equity groups they are more than likely to go out and hire some of the same guys to run the pieces after they are done taking them apart and selling what they can sell ......... do you think a single individual can run boeing ?............ walmart is basically owned and run by a family and so is ford - are they your idea of well run companies that take care of old joe six pack ?

........ and it would surprise you to know that some of these private equity firms have bigger jets and yatches than the ``corporatists`` .......... guess who owns the biggest yatch ``octupus``? ....... well, i will be darned if it isn`t the capitalist paul allen !!!!

Hamid:

Logically when a group of individuals get together there is totally different behavior than of individuals. Corporate managers form a group, and to keep their integrity they make good governance policies. These good corporate policies are always time or era dependent.

For example, these days touching females inappropriately would lead to sexual harrassment charges. Coporate whistle blowers are yet another example that Joe Schmuck American controls the corporate executives behavior. Yes, in my strictest definition of a capitalist, the Godfather mafia is also a capitalist. But, you know very well, that I am not referring to that kind of a capitalist.

Corporate managers by the very nature of being together are against those who have brought in capital for the betterment of themselves (the capitalists), but the executives take away a big chunk of the generated profits, which rightfully does not belong to them (the executives).

Are you getting a clearer picture of my argument?

Respectfully submitted,

Re: # 214

behram,

....... do you think time warner and joe public would have been better off carl had managed to oust the management and gain control of the company ? ........ do you think he was really looking out for you and me ? ...... do you think blockbuster is better off since he took over - are they giving you free movies ?....... actually the stupidest thing they did was do away with the late fee ! .........

....... how much money did kirk kerkorian make whan he went after chrysler ?...... did he benefit from the government bailout ?...... if so, is he a real ``capitalist`` ?

........... and what do you think about the cabal of capitalists known as the carlyle group ?

......... actually you don`t have to answer these questions - they are rhetorical ........ all i am trying to say there is all corporatists are not bad and neither are the corporate raiders ........... private equity firms are no better - in their case no one what is going on in smoke the smoke filled rooms ............ given a choice between the three i would go with the publically traded company which is the most transparent .......... all you need to do is a strong and honest board ..... but how do you get rid of the good old boy network, you might ask ?............ i never claimed to have all the answers ...........

#215 by behram1 on May 17, 2006 2:21pm PT

Unless you were born here, you came to this country and ``stole`` a job from a hard working american mechanical engineer/plumber.

Re: # 192 by tahmed32 on May 17, 2006 4:46am PT

{In fact this example proves the opposite. Namely that corporations, in promoting immigration to the US, is reducing income disparities at the global level.}

I don`t see how this is possible? Why would out bound immigration be required in the first place? In 1986, Ronald Regan granted amnesty to 3 million immigrants due to the pressure of the farming community. Farmers were losing workers to the industrial america, and population had moved to the cities, hence they needed some more hands. Hence, they (the corporation) made sure that they brought in more help.

No brains were coming in from south of the border. Then, the industrialists (corporatists) got bolder and worked up the same game plan. But this time their slogan was that US needs more engineers. Hence, all those H1-B visa holders. Atleast this time around with the educated force it was somewhat legal.

And then all those human smugglers that were shipping in plane loads of people illegally.

But, in the process, the middle class got shafted.

Yes, this is a new lingo regarding ``corporatists`` (is this really a word, or did you just invent it?).

{But Jose Lawnmowerez is happy since he now has money in his pocket. And at the global level, reductions in the north-south divide are good for the children of both Joe Jobless and of Jose Lawnmowerez since this leads to a more stable and just world. }

Academically this maybe true. But, if you look at Mexico, it is the same crap as it was back in 1986, when the general amnesty was given. With that amnesty, it was also agreed upon that the US would make every effort to upgrade the Mexican standard of living, so that we may not have this huge inflow of illegals, but it did not.

Why? Some would argue that during the Clinton administration nothing was done to fulfill the requirement of the deal between the Republicans with the majority Democratic Congress of 1986.

{And you wont find any american politician making this argument since his constituency is Joe Jobless, and not unborn generations in mexico (or pakistan for that matter). And that is why the lengthy quote from a US politician provided by SR #185 does not touch on this aspect either. }

Actually, if you watch Lou Dobbs on CNN that is exactly what his claim to fame is, that Americans are loosing jobs due to outsourcing. Nowadays, Newt Gingrich is talking about the lack of adequate engineers, etc.

And regarding illegals, the politicians are talking about ``breaking the law``, ``english language``, ``rasing the american flags``, and ``assimilation``. Incidentally, all of these issues that the anglo-Americans do not like, and are saying about illegals, fit exactly on almost all recently arrived immigrants.

{In other words, as confucius said, be careful what you wish for. What Joe Jobless wishes for is not necessarily good for his kids.}

Joe Jobless wants a job and to raise his standard of living. He does not want a hand out from any government. He does not want a stressed out family. He does not want him and his wife to sleep on separate beds. He does not want his family to be destroyed due to the shenanigans of the corporation, whether it is in auto, pharma, or farming.

Another angle to look at all this is the failure of the latest round of WTO and their trade negotiations at Doha.

Respectfully submitted,

Hamid:

Really, you knew it all along what I was trying to say. Didn`t you? Thanks for finally getting it, that it is the capitalist who should be admired and respected, and not those damn office politicians who are otherwise known as corporatists.

Now, how is your cafe latte doing?

Respectfully submitted,

#191 Ur story is apocryphal. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QDOS
Bill Gates no doubt is a business genius. Nonetheless he was in the right place @ the right time & had the right connections. His mom was a trustee of the Univ of Washington Regents & so was an IBM exec who told her abt IBM looking 4 an OS. The rest is history..

behram,

this will make you happy ...... here is what one of my favourite capitalists has to say about ``corporatists`` : ``Too often it`s not the most creative guys or the smartest. Instead, it`s the ones who are best at playing politics and soft-soaping their bosses. Boards don`t like tough, abrasive guys`` ...........

...... there is a rumor that carl has pictures of all the ceo`s who he has fired all over his office ! ..... if he had his way he would have mounted their heads ! .......... his most famous saying is ``if you want a friend, get a dog !``......
......

Re: # 209

Zeemax:

This could be sold as a doodle game on your cell phone waiting for the flight to catch... And become a capitalist.... drive whatever you want, live wherever you want, and enjoy ... fruits of your creativity.

Anil

Re: # 207

Arjun:

``What about people borrowing money from their neighbours and friends to grow their business? That`s essentially what a stock market is, except the friend part..``

Also, the ``borrowing money`` part is different. Stock market is the most efficient way to provide capital to grow economies. Even China is aping it. Of all places it sent a team to study Bombay Stock Exchange - the oldest stock exchange in Asia.

Anil

ArjunM,

Re: # 203

behram,

...... stop going on and on about the ``corporatists`` ....... the capitalists are still well and alive and nowdays the ``best and the brightest`` aspire to work for them ....the most famous capitalist is named carlyle !..... here are some others :


Berkshire Hathaway
Cerberus Capital Management
CD&R
CMGI
Forstmann Little
GS Capital Partners
HM Capital Partners
Knowledge Universe
KKR
SOFTBANK
Texas Pacific Group
Thomas H. Lee Partners

....... not to mentikon guys like carl ichan and kerkorian who make your corporate fiends look like a bunch of boy scouts .........

....... now what do you have to say ? ..... or are you still waiting for the next henry ford or bill gates .......... and henry ford was not a very nice man either

#202 by behram1 on May 17, 2006 9:30am PT


Now, I go to the stock market and float shares. As soon as I float shares of my company, I become a corporatist.


So your beef is with the stock market and publicly listed companies?

How do you think average Joe Schmuck`s 401K grows? do you know what % of the American population has invested(and made money) in long term investments in the stock market?


Now, I grow more and more, and heck, I need more and more money. Then of course the law of diminishing return sets in.


So the solution is to abolish the stock market and limit companies to the size they can grow to organically without any infusion of capital?

What about people borrowing money from their neighbours and friends to grow their business? That`s essentially what a stock market is, except the friend part..

Hamidm,

If you want to see the real China, go to Taiyuan (Shanxi) and not Xian (Shaanxi) which is a touristy area. These are different provinces you know ...

Re: # 195

Arjun:

This Wikipedia link was the best expression of what works.

Anil

Heck:

A leader does the right things.... And managers do the things right......

{every time i meet one of these guys i am amazed and , yes, insome cases overawed, by their intellect, integrity and energy ....... }

Really, you must be a person who is easily impressed.

Coporatist and intellect, eh?
Corporatist and integrity, eh? Forgot about the CEO of Boeing, uh!

Just like Nixon, until you get caught......uh!

Corporatist and energy...well, OK....Robbers do need energy.



{but by and large, most executives are honorable folks who dedicate their life to their company (and careers).......}

Yeah right!



Yes, sometimes....and only sometimes.....and go have a look at the whole section of business books on leadership, etc. Ever wondered if Jack Welsh reads those books? Or was it the Hunt brothers? Sure we can get few individuals who are individually great, but those people who rise up the corporate ladder because of office politics, how can they be considered leaders.

Let me educate you on the difference between a leader and a manager.

A leader does the does thing, and a manager does things right.

And the corporatists are even trying to call themselves leaders. Plain old nonsense.

Respectfully submitted,

All great posts, but not one single on was able to counter the main thrust of my argument, which is that capital is only created by a capitalit.

Let me state this in a different way.

I save some money and start a restaurant, and at that point I am a capitalist. My restaurant flourishes and I start a chain (franchise) with more money from my friends, etc., and I am still a capitalist. Now, I grow more and more, and heck, I need more and more money. Then of course the law of diminishing return sets in. But, still I have ego, etc. and bring in more people to handle my business.

Now, I go to the stock market and float shares. As soon as I float shares of my company, I become a corporatist. And to handle all of the other stuff I must hire managers. As a manager, the idiot that I hire is not working for the benefit of me as a capitalist, but for the stock market.

Ok...this first guy is honest and he works for the benefit of me and the shareholders...and then we hire a bunch of other idiots, and the musical chairs starts. Now, there is this collective dynamic of rascals running my show. He confuses me with all the idiotic stuff, kinda like a government bureaucrat. No difference between the two, except a different lingo.

Team buildup, six sigma, etc. Same superficial crap to confuse the poor entrepreneur capitalist. Suddenly the poor Joe Schmuck the capitalist is encircled with these visious idiots, who start collecting excessive dollars (pay + options) and he gets shafted.

Heck, I think, most of you get the idea.

Corporatists are not good for the economy, but capitalists are. All the other nonsense that this freedom of humanity is because of corporation is just utter nonsense. Like everything else, these politicos want to take credit where it is not due. They have already stolen humanity with other people`s money, and now they want to steal other people`s intelligence.

Give me a break.

Enjoying my rant, eh!

Respectfully submitted,

Re: # 199

thamed,

...... is profile says that he is a scholar of `` islam and social justice`` ....... wht does that tell you ?......... you don`t have to be a genius to figure out where he and masadi are coming from ............ but if it makes you feel any better i will take off hazrats omar`s name off the list of charlatans :)

...... somtimes i wonder if we will ever be able to reform islam with apologists like you defending it all the way ............ it is quite hopeless, really ....

#196 by hamidm2
......``every time i meet one of these guys i am amazed and , yes, in some cases overawed, by their intellect, integrity and energy`` .....
...........................

That`s very normal & one expected of you.

Whosoever & whensoever anyone has camped or decamped near Taxila & Jhelum has hammered these lessons so well that now its part of their DNA`s.

Heck, it sounds like a joke but it isn`t, they have paid homage even to, of all people in the world, the sardars.

Never being even at the lowest rung of any totem pole you`re doing right to be ``overawed, by their intellect, integrity and energy`` .....

Your attempts at humour sometimes do get serious.

hamidm #197 you dont need to drag into islam into every damn thing. where is oak talking about hazrat omar or religion or anything?? get a life!!

oak #193 On your point (1), first a clarification: ``needle in a haystack`` (as you put it) is an incorrect analogy given what you are trying to say here. ``drop in the bucket`` is more appropriate. second, you are wrong in what you are trying to say - the fact is that remittances by immigrants are today a very significant source of ``foreign aid`` to developing countries. They are greater in magnitude than ODA (Official Development Assistance, which includes bilateral as well as multilateral aid) and they come with no political strings attached and in the form of grants rather than loans !!. Third world bureaucrats kow-tow to ``foreign donors``, but treat like dirt the poor Abduls (whose remittances are of far greater value than that of the agencies these ``foreign donors`` represent) when they visit their home countries.

You may google and check up the numbers that support what I have written above if you wish. I am writing from the numbers I remember seeing sometime back of ODA vs remittances.

Your point (2) is invalid too. What used to be called the ``brain drain`` 30 years ago has in fact proved over time to be a ``brain gain`` for developing countries. The reason for this: simply getting an MBBS from a developing country, or even a PhD from a western country does not change a person`s brain. They need to spend years and decades living and working in the western environment before they finally get it. Some live out their lives and die in the west and still dont get it.

Your point (3) is invalid too (sorry. but you really need to start thinking and stop repeating conventional wisdom of third world ``intellectuals``): the reality is that jobs with multinational agencies, or even export-oriented domestic firms, far from promoting ``unethical work codes`` are highly prized in developing countries.

Anyway, thanks for writing. I am sorry I have to side with this good-for-nothing, pompous, deceiving, spiteful little creap like Arjun #195 on this one - but you are dead wrong on all three points. But I think you will learn if you consider what I have written above with an open mind.

Re: # 195

arjun,

``Dude..we tried your system..`` ....... you are wrong - we have never tried the system oak is talking about ........ he is talking about the time of hazrat omar who would walk around the slums of mecca in the middle of the night with a sack of potatoes and a bucket full of fermented camel`s milk for the children - nobody went to bed hungry in his time ...... the traditiion continued under ali but he cut back on the fermented milk, the people revolted, and the rest is history ....... the system lasted six or seven years ...

............... that`s why i think it is a bad idea for the usda to distribute cheese to people who are already obese - what happens if they can`t do it next year ?........ we will have a riot in the bronx when masadi, oak and their pals show up for their weekly ration ......

green with envy,

....... i will be the first one to agree that in the last ten years or so executive compensation in america did get out of hand a little............ also, a number of charlatans and thieves like ken lay, bernie ebers and dennis kozlowski became the poster boys for human avarice and venality ......... but by and large, most executives are honorable folks who dedicate their life to their company (and careers)....... every time i meet one of these guys i am amazed and , yes, insome cases overawed, by their intellect, integrity and energy .......

.............. just as it is hard for an average man in the street to understand how michael jordan can fly in the air to dunk the ball, it is impossible for mortal humans to fathom what it takes to run a fortune 1000 company ....... and if we are willing to pay ten million a year for someone to stand at the line, drooling at the mouth and shoot a ball through the hoop, then 20m is a small price to pay someone whose decisions effect the livelihood of thousands of people ............... i think most of the preople bitchin on this board about greedy ``corporatists`` are simply green with envy .........slackers !

..... and besides, why would the best and brightest put up with the clowns at the sec, the fools in congress, idiotic board members and joe sixpack, when they can go and join a private equity firm which doesn`t have to tell you guys diddly ............. a lot of them are ......


P.s. masadi still does not understand productivity and i don`t have the time ...... we need some sophomore interns on the chowk who can explain these simple things to the pea-brained commies and the brain-dead islamists ....... i think arjun would be a good candiadate - sign him up!

#193 by oak on May 17, 2006 6:05am PT


(2) As regards immigration itself: a constant brain drain crises within the 3rd world offsets and in all likelyhood considerably over-rides any marginal reduction in disparity brought about by immigration.


That is the biggest lie propagated by the socialists and the commies(namely, YOU)..

Absent a system to utilize their skills in their home country, immigration of more educated people is actually a brain-gain...The immigrants pick up skills and experience that they can use back in the home country when the home country gets its act together..Prime example: India, China and Taiwan..

A decade ago there were hardly any people going back to India..now the IT boom is being sustained by people who came to the US as immigrants and gained valuable experience(and $$)..

Dude..we tried your system..The one that was supposed to make everyone equal and reduce disparities or whatever...It didn`t work.

Sure CEO pay is a problem...but that doesn`t mean the whole system is broken..Unlike Pakistan, Americans have a right to vote and they vote with their wallets...Why don`t you run for office on a platform of limiting CEO pay and see how many votes you get..

Re: # 192

tahmad32

>Namely that corporations, in promoting immigration to the US, is reducing income disparities at the global level .<

What you are talking about is a needle in a haystack, even if true. (1) There are continuing trends increasing and continuing to enforce economic disparity as pointed out in the UN Human Development Report of 2005. 2.5 billion people recieve less than 5% of the world income, whereas 54% of global income goes to the richest 10%. 53/73 countries, comprising some 80% of global population are recorded where income disparity has increased. A summary of the report can be found at: http://www.globalpolicy.org/socecon/inequal/2005/10compendium.pdf

(2) As regards immigration itself: a constant brain drain crises within the 3rd world offsets and in all likelyhood considerably over-rides any marginal reduction in disparity brought about by immigration. (3) Further, global corporations re-inforce disparity by monopolising supply industries of off-shore production facilities hence enforcing unsustainable tax breaks, unethical work codes etc. I have already referred to Naomi Klein`s exposition in this matter.

behram #186 In support of your contention (and I quote) but individuals, and only individual`s capitalism is good for the world, and corporatists are the evil you provide the following example One specific example is this new immigration issue that is being discussed in the country.

In fact this example proves the opposite. Namely that corporations, in promoting immigration to the US, is reducing income disparities at the global level . While Joe Jobless in the US may be (as you point out) unhappy about this, and so consider the ``corporatists`` (is this really a word, or did you just invent it?) to be evil. But Jose Lawnmowerez is happy since he now has money in his pocket. And at the global level, reductions in the north-south divide are good for the children of both Joe Jobless and of Jose Lawnmowerez since this leads to a more stable and just world.

And you wont find any american politician making this argument since his constituency is Joe Jobless, and not unborn generations in mexico (or pakistan for that matter). And that is why the lengthy quote from a US politician provided by SR #185 does not touch on this aspect either.

In other words, as confucius said, be careful what you wish for. What Joe Jobless wishes for is not necessarily good for his kids.

Re: # 190
Tvarad:

It is Gary Kildall`s wife, an attorney, who refused to sign the famous NDA that IBM wanted DR to sign. This alongwith what I wrote earlier was narrated by Gary Kildall himself in a small gathering in Silicon Valley a few years ago.

Bill Gates got the license from Seattle Computer (??) for $50,000 and did the deal with IBM. Later he gave options in Microsoft to the founder of Seattle Computer... who is now a billionaire as well.

Anil

#189 Anil

``Digital Reasearch (DR)... no one hears... Microsoft everyone.... IBM went to DR for the operating system... DR founder and his wife chose hang gliding that day... the rest is history... is that how you want to be?``

There are many versions of that fateful day, one being that Kildall wasn`t told who the secret customer of CP/M was and hence didn`t want to sign the non-disclosure agreement. In any case, Gary Kildall did a double take when he found out that MS-DOS was reverse-engineered from CP/M but Bill bought him out.

I think this ``what could have been`` story is over-rated. The business brilliance of Bill Gates shown through when he negotiated with IBM to be allowed to sell MS-DOS to others. Even a decade later IBM still hadn`t figured out that ``it`s the OS, stupid``.

Re: # 186

``But, the individual innovator, whose company has been taken over by these office politicos, has lost. Anybody rememer LOTUS, and how MS stole that and created Excel. Office mafias are just that they steal. ``

Sadly, history starts with your memory... VisiCalc started it all.... LOTUS won... EXCEL prevailed. It is all part of the game. There were predecessor to Einstein`s theory of relativity too, on which he developed his thought process. IBM was not the first to come with computers either.... do you know who was the first?

The rule is if you want name, as you do.... then ensure to choose the right fight .... in street fighter`s lingo...

Digital Reasearch (DR)... no one hears... Microsoft everyone.... IBM went to DR for the operating system... DR founder and his wife chose hang gliding that day... the rest is history... is that how you want to be?

Anil

#184 Pardesi writes <<< On the positive side - people regroup very quickly, they are fair to each other and they take their sense of responsibility to the world and each other very seriously. >>>

Which world are you living in? The world of the small town wild west where power and control was tiny and diverse,the people`s guns were as big as the sheriffs as against now when power, wealth and ownership has become ultra concentrated and the control, including mind control, desire control, aspiration control on people is all encompassing and bureaucratized? The mass society in the US is effectively controlled through a media and such levels of propaganda never seen before in human history while most decisions of national and global consequence are made inspite of them by a tiny elite that have a social profile quite alike regardless of party affiliation. Wealth is what defines the political economy of the US and if people were such movers and shakers the top 1% would never be able to command greater wealth than the rest of the 99% combined, neither would the class structure be intergenerationally permanent, nor would two parties with little difference, both circumscribed by wealth and corporate power, define the political scene, nor would wars be conducted with such ease or jobs relocated by the millions or health care and food security denied to the many, or corporate welfare and deficit spending that benefits the corporations pushed to the max while high gas prices forced on the masses. Get real, the people in the US are like cattle, prodded in whatever direction the corporate elite want them to go.

tahmed writes <<< is the cultural ethos of a people along with their system of governance that ultimately determines the overall productivity-level of a society. >>>

Nonsense once again, what do you know of the cultural ethos? and what culture defines the America of today, an America in which social tradition has been colonized by corporate nonsense that is forced on people from every direction, families have been dismantled to be replaced by the company for whom the person lives and spends the best, most alert hours of thier lives, and for whom he dies in many wars conducted for just such greed. Corporate greed and shenanigans and their rule in the political directorate by fact and proxy determines the size of the national economy, built upon the backs of the poor to whom they deny basic necessities like health care and nutrition and decent education because it would cut into their profits and ensure that their stranglehold on the people exists no more. Given its wealth this country is a disgrace not only among the developed nations in how it behaves but among the world at large. As a factor of its GNI, it has disgraceful numbers all across the board, regarding the poverty that exists here, compared to even the poorest of the poor nations. F this cultural ethos and shame on shameless idolators like you for worshipping it.

#185 by SR on May 16, 2006 4:27pm PT

{On the floor of the United States House, the Republican Representative from the 14th Congressional District in Texas,.....}

FYI....Congressman Ron Paul is more a Libertarian than Republican.

Respectfully submitted,

Hey, where is Hamid?

Thank you, Pardesi, for such an eloquent post. Yes, this is exactly how I feel. As for the poor capitalist (oxymoron), he is being shafted by the whole executive management teams. Yes, there are probably over 75,000 corporations on NYSE, NASDAQ, and all the other boards in the world.

But, the individual innovator, whose company has been taken over by these office politicos, has lost. Anybody rememer LOTUS, and how MS stole that and created Excel. Office mafias are just that they steal.

HP, you are totally wrong. It was the MLK march that created some degree of minority rights and participation in the economic system. Actually, the opportunity is there for all of us to take care of our individual needs, and I am not ranting about that.

What I am ranting is that corporatists has always been Johnny come late to the party. As Pardesi suggests in his post, it is the American people, and when they say enough is enough, then these corporatists @ss are on fire.

One specific example is this new immigration issue that is being discussed in the country. Washington politicians are talking about blah, blah, blah. I have yet to meet a single white anglo, who votes, to be for amnesty. And heck, I live in the most liberal city of my state. So what are these politicians talking about. If they are not Steve Forbes` mouth piece and his coporatist blow horn magazine, then what else is there? Who supports poor mexicans at less than human wages, but the MNC of Monsato or ADM?

Yes, maybe we will end into another kind of debate, but individuals, and only individual`s capitalism is good for the world, and corporatists are the evil (using, my favorite GW`s vocabulary).

Management by the nature of its structure can not collectively be good for the investor. This is basic MBA 101.

Enjoy reading my rants,

Respectfully submitted,

The Empire and its Dollar Hegemony

On the floor of the United States House, the Republican Representative from the 14th Congressional District in Texas, always has interesting things to say whenever its his turn to speak. On February 25th he spoke about the Dollar Hegemony and the United States role as a modern day world Empire.

Following is an excerpt:

Though money developed naturally in the marketplace, as governments grew in power they assumed monopoly control over money. Sometimes governments succeeded in guaranteeing the quality and purity of gold, but in time governments learned to outspend their revenues. New or higher taxes always incurred the disapproval of the people, so it wasn’t long before Kings and Caesars learned how to inflate their currencies by reducing the amount of gold in each coin-- always hoping their subjects wouldn’t discover the fraud. But the people always did, and they strenuously objected.

This helped pressure leaders to seek more gold by conquering other nations. The people became accustomed to living beyond their means, and enjoyed the circuses and bread. Financing extravagances by conquering foreign lands seemed a logical alternative to working harder and producing more. Besides, conquering nations not only brought home gold, they brought home slaves as well. Taxing the people in conquered territories also provided an incentive to build empires. This system of government worked well for a while, but the moral decline of the people led to an unwillingness to produce for themselves. There was a limit to the number of countries that could be sacked for their wealth, and this always brought empires to an end. When gold no longer could be obtained, their military might crumbled. In those days those who held the gold truly wrote the rules and lived well.

That general rule has held fast throughout the ages. When gold was used, and the rules protected honest commerce, productive nations thrived. Whenever wealthy nations-- those with powerful armies and gold-- strived only for empire and easy fortunes to support welfare at home, those nations failed.

Today the principles are the same, but the process is quite different. Gold no longer is the currency of the realm; paper is. The truth now is: “He who prints the money makes the rules”-- at least for the time being. Although gold is not used, the goals are the same: compel foreign countries to produce and subsidize the country with military superiority and control over the monetary printing presses.

Several paragraphs later the Texas Republican goes on to add this:

In the short run, the issuer of a fiat reserve currency can accrue great economic benefits. In the long run, it poses a threat to the country issuing the world currency. In this case that’s t