Has Higher Education Failed India?

I still feel reservations in higher education is not the right way to go about changing things. There are other methods. Now just playing devil`s advocate, here is a bit from the other side. It caught my eye as I was looking up antihypochrist`s posting. Brahmins are also finding it difficult .

http://www.sulekha.com/news/nhc.aspx?cid=451113

The only interesting question about education in india is how to expand it FAST.

How can we ensure that ALL elementary schools are effective?

Can we empower panchayat/neighborhood groups to check every week?

How can we ensure that kids in rural areas stay thru at least 6th or 8th standard?

Can we give a cash payment for every girl who finishes 8th standard?

Can we promise that if a girl completes high school she will be given at least
Rs. 10,000 for marriage/further education/any other expense?

How can we make sure that teachers actually come to school everyday?

How can we make sure that each schooll has some supplies and books for students?

How can we train better teachers and keep them in the teaching profession?

How can we expand high schools, say 4X, in the next 5 years?

How can we double colleges and universities in next 10 years?

NONE OF THIS IS OF ANY INTEREST TO LOSERS LIKE ABHISHEK BEHL. None of this is of interest to any left-wing communist moron ``progressive`` thinkers. THEY HAVE ZERO
INTEREST IN EDUCATION. Their only interest is in showing off words like ``fascist brahmin`` or ``marxist analysis`` or some other stupidity.

THIS IS THE REAL TRAGEDY OF THIS SITUATION.

OK, now even the residents of Pakistan Occupied Kashmir seek reservations in IITs and IIMs.... Join the party.

http://www.sulekha.com/news/nhc.aspx?cid=451113

Re: # 102 Mineguruji

Dear Sir, how do you know whether anyone here called for removing poverty etc., or not?

Agreed that there is and was a lot of tyranny, but how do you solve it. The basic question is : If caste system is the culprit but it is permanent (as you said), then what do you do about it?

Regards

This pontificating disease afflicts a large number of Indian politicians, and writers. This Behl dude has got no frikkin` clue as to what truly is wrong about the Indian educational system. This article is at best a hodge-podge brain dump of his. His interacts also betray his insincerity, and bias loaded against the meritocracy. Shame on people like him.

Re: # 102


with your twisted logic: casteism is good as long as it is directed against brahmins.

similar to: racism is good as long as it is directed towards whites...


you are a great ``intellectual`` indeed, i just took a little while to understand your sermons.

just wish india had a lot more of ``great minds`` like you...

anyway, why don`t you quit your job and ``reserve`` it for some unemployed dalit/obc?

#102 brain-dead-ji

Who is doing the pontification here? I have asked you 25 questions in #27 about improving educational system in India. You have not answered and have no interest in these questions or any serious discussion.

You think that india can make progress by shouting ``fascist brahmin``. ``dalits are oppressed`` and by blaming some lazy teachers in some colleges??? This is your vision for progress?

During the past year, I have written 20 ``progressive`` or ``dalit`` organizations offering to raise $10,000 per year to support educational programs for deserving youth. NOT A SINGLE ORGANIZATION HAS ANSWERED!! They are all busy being ``progressive`` and having demonstrations!!

The complete disinterest of so-called ``progressives`` in actually doing the work of educating kids, ensuring that more students finish high school and compete for college is stunning. And this at a time when we should trying to double and triple the number and size of our schools and institutions.

Only groups like Christians, RSS, RK Mission, other religous groups, NGOs are actually trying to improve things on the ground.

And yet these lafanga leftists want to give us advice on progress !

Well i am answering to all the questions put forth by you guys and i have also to speak on behalf of people, who are not able to join this virtual bandwagon.

Mishra ji it very easy to pontificate, when you are on the other side of the fence which has only indulged in all out exploitation.
Before this reservation issue why did not you call for remong poverty, cateism and things like that.

When caste system was good for Brahmins than they vouched for it, now when it hurting them, they want to give up caste.
What a travesty.

Re: # 98

behl:

I thought that we were discussing about reservation in education/jobs on the basis of caste not merit and its implications for the country and the society at large. abuse of lower castes across the country is not false and has to be corrected. But how is it related to reserving upto 50% seats in education and jobs to the undeserved, at the expense of the others who have worked hard towards it?

you are jumping from one topic to another without understanding and resolving the first one

this half-baked article is on the FP only due to editorial choice. the author also seems to be a propagandist and and not interested in a discussion.

Re: # 96

Most Respected Guruji

Your argument makes only half-sense. Your observations are correct but the conclusions are wrong.

The plight of dalits that you described is entirely true. But reservation is not helping those farm labourers and those victims of rape. Also, if caste is permanent, then how do you propose to eliminate casteism through reservations? Looks like the entire thing is an exercise in futility. Or may be you want to keep it permanent. Also, when some dalits change their economic status through reservations, shouldn`t they step away and give the same chance to other dalits? You only cry about the problem, but what is the solution?

Regards

#96 mineguruji the moron writes:

[quote]
Poverty is no problem in India
[quote]

I think this statement summarizes your mental state. 400 million people in india live on less that 50 rupees a day, and there is no poverty in india??? I thought you were just an idiot but I now see that you are a stupid liar as well. Or maybe you are mentally ill?

[quote]
Even in Western countries upper caste people have their separate temples, gurdwaras to which Dalits are not allowed
[quote]

This is an outrageous lies. I have lived in western countries for 20 years and I have never heard or seen such a situation. I challenge you to give even ONE news report or eyewitness account of such disgusting behavior. Shame on liars like behl !! Shame ! Shame !

It is clear you have ZERO interest in solving the problem of educating all indians, especially those from deprived backgrounds. You have no interest in any constructive change. You do not have the guts to reply to my message #27.

I am sorry I called you bevakoof. It is an insult to the word which deserves better use.

The problem is with the reds trying to `politicize` everything............including `merit`............the idea of merit in science is absolutely clear............ either you can solve a problem or you cannot solve a problem.........this is no cockabull story of whose `interpretation` of hostprical materialism is `better` in a political science paper..............either your theory predicts or does not predict............your sum is either correct or incorrect....................you can evaluate a maths paper on the basis of `merit` of the skills of the student who has solved a question paper............you cannot play `politics` with it......yes but you can do that with any humanities paper..............a CPM stalinist would evaluate the same political science answer sheet drastically differently from that of a khaki knickerwala..................

No ......for a CPM card holder every bit of this universe is steeped in politics which is manipulated by those in control of the means of production..........just as an Islamist sees conspiracies in every bit of this universe by those belonging to different faiths................
so both see politics and conspiracies in natural sciences and `merit` does not exist for them.......for them it is all Thomas Kuhn and his ever encompassing paradigmatic ideologies controlled by the elites............there is NO OBJECTIVITY...............ergo there cannot be a `merit` that can be sen in isolation of the social life........ergo religious prejudices and caste prejudices make 20/100 equally `meritorious` to 90/100 in a mathematics paper...............

this is the history of obfuscation that we see.........I know that these CPM card holders are planning to start their compulsary pension plan by the private enterprise........I do not want paprasites sitting on my throat and threatening to close my concern if I do not give in to their demand for a `better` pension plan......I would prefer to close the concern and exit than have these pervert comrades shouting slogans while I worry about getting the next business........I would also suggest to all the Indians to think of a viable exit plan for their concerns in view of the certain reservation in the private sector with no possibility of termination of the incompetetnt because `merit` is all politicized.................

Respected sirs,
Behl Bewakoof has not gone anywhere and is ready to face the entire opposition single handedly. This article may lack tight editing and may have some mistakes but it has succeeded in touching your nerves.


I would ask to know you that when the Dalits are boycotted in Punjab why no other ``poor`` and landless Jat comes out in solidarity?
A poor Jat is also a labourer like the Dalit. But why he is not showing his ``class`` solidarity with his poor Dalit colleague? A poor Brahmin or other upper caste man never prevents an upper caste trying to rape a Dalit woman. Nor does he prevent a Dalit woman being paraded naked in the village.
We have no instance of any ``poor Brahmin`` or upper caste ``poor`` subjected to any atrocity in Punjab villages.
Naked woman: During elections, Brahmins and other upper caste ``poor`` do not sell their votes. Neither are they blocked from voting. No poor upper caste woman throughout India is made naked and ordered to dance in village streets in the presence of her father, mother, sons, daughters and other relatives.

This great credit is reserved only for the Dalit woman. Is there any case of burning the houses of upper caste poor? It is the upper caste poor who are employed to burn the houses of Dalits. Dalits all over India are prohibited from taking water from common well and taps.
In coastal Andhra cyclone in which thousands died, only the Dalit bodies were not touched. Mother Teresa`s Sisters came to do the job. Even in Western countries upper caste people have their separate temples, gurdwaras to which Dalits are not allowed. Such is the Hindu hatred of Dalits.
Poverty no problem: In ``Hindu India`` poverty is not a problem. It does not create any hate. It is caste which creates hate not poverty. From birth to death Dalits are hated. Even India`s richest Dalit —Jagjivan Ram —was not allowed to be buried in Delhi.
Upper caste poor get equal status in all socio-religious issues. But the Dalit, even if he is an IAS, IPS official, is a third class person. A rich Dalit is also hated for his wealth, health and official status. He is badly abused using his caste name. Dirtiest words are used to hate a Dalit even if he is rich.

Poverty is no problem in India. No poor Brahmin has revolted against a rich Brahmin. In a Brahmin institution, its owner, always employs poor Brahmins, his own jatwalas, to see that the employees do not revolt. There is no trade union of poor Brahmins against the rich Brahmin employer.

Class solidarity: There is nothing like class solidarity of the poor. In Bombay textile mills, upper caste mill workers went on strike against their own Dalit colleagues employed in the weaving section.
A ``class`` is temporary but ``caste`` is permanent. There is no promotion or demotion in a caste society.
Poverty is not permanent. It can change any time as many Dalit-Backwards have become rich in the last 30 years.
But caste is permanent. It never changes. A born Dalit dies as Dalit even if he becomes rich. In every village of Punjab Dalits have their separate burials. Caste fixes your place — not poverty.
In ``Hindu India`` poverty yardstick makes no sense.

I hope my arguments will make sense. The problem lies in the fact that we have lesser resources, lesser men on the top and negligible presence in the media and that is why it appears that you guys are justified.

Where is this bevakoof behl? Or hs he just generated this gibberish for us to get excited about? I am still waiting on him to answer the questions I had in #27.

Abhishek,
Why is reservation necessary? Because SC/ST/OBC/poors do not have enough resources similar to that of rich people. Then why should reservation be based on caste and not on poverty. You say that poverty should not be used as yard stick in India but finally its money that is going to help you to buy food.
India should have reservation based on family income.
Indian politician are trying to follow divide and rule policy to continually warming their seats in Vidhan/Lok/Rajya sabha.
A real politician would try to get 22 % of SC/ST and 22 % of OBC in 1st standard. He should allocated resources to make sure that 22 % of SC/ST and 22 % of OBC are first class when they pass their 8th, 10th & 12th standard. If that happens and then SC/ST/OBC should use the quotas.
Another solution can be to increase the minium passing requirement from 35% to 65% or even 75%. And then maybe poor SC/ST/OBC can used reservations.
Third solution can be that if one should put limit for the times he or she uses reservation per family. This will also try to get more and more SC/ST/OBC to use reservation and take out people who use it continously even though they are welltodo.