Change Management:Marx and Muslims

#268 by tahmed32

i resent you calling mr ntsyed a kaffir.
kaffirs are very honorable folks.

Re:manto#266

[...Ranjit mian...

Brilliant post... even if some what harshly worded...]

Manto, these Congress leaders are all wolves in sheep`s clothing. They appear on the surface to be nationalistic, secular and liberal. Actually they are all frauds. They are self serving, power hungry politicians with only one objective - get power at any cost, the country be damned.

Look at the current chain of events. Things were going well for India economically. Arjun Singh, who is the Human Resources minister got jealous of Manmohan Singh since Arjun Singh has PM ambitions. So he decides unilaterally to take the reservations issue, bypass Manmohan Singh and announce that come what may, he will implement 50% quotas for OBCs in IIT/IIMs/All central institutions starting next year. Along with that he hints at implementing reservations in the private sector. Now, people in India are not against helping poor OBCs. If they need educational assistance or economic assistance, fine. Even if they need reservations, lets have a well thought out plan that does not harm all the students, or the country`s economy, nor does it favor the rich section of OBCs. Instead of doing any ground work or preparing the country, Arjun Singh launches his missile. Naturally the reaction from students and upper castes is ferocious. As a result, we have medical services paralyzed, people on the streets, everyone fighting against everyone on the basis of caste. What a way to destroy the country`s social fabric and make it a mini Bihar.

It is not as if Arjun Singh really cares about OBCs, since he is himself from some thakur family. He just wants the votes and get the PM job. So he wants to embarass the PM. Now the PM cannot do anything since it is afterall about backward caste people so he cant say anything against it. In one shot, it is a political masterpiece from Arjun Singh to make life miserable for Manmohan Singh and get backward caste support. This is totally cynical politics at its worst. Of course, upper caste folks are a minority so kicking the minority around is no big deal, since the demographics are against them. Arjun Singh is now so adamant that he will not even negotiate with anyone on his position.

Now look at the parallel between this and the treatment to muslims in the 1930s. The Congress was so intoxicated that it had hindu support, that it did not give a $hit about muslim concerns. Muslims were a minority and could be kicked around. No concessions, no negotiations. Gandhi introduces hindu practices in the political sphere without considering impact on other communities. And of course, Nehru and gang were willing to do any deal including sabotage cabinet mission plan in order to grab absolute power as soon as possible. Its the same arrogant vote bank politics that we see today except that it is now between backward castes and forward castes. So I would say that you guys are lucky. You escaped this crap and can live a life of dignity without constantly fighting for your rights all the time.

#261 by ntsyed on May 30, 2006 5:46am PT

[Tell me dear, have you heard of an Ivy League student ….]

There are independent bodies of arbiters who determine the worth of each educational institution and rate it and provide clear-cut details of the rating system. Which ones serve that role for YOUR “school”? Care to explain, and don’t go about giving lip about your very own Brochure touting it as such! What do you expect your audience to be – a bunch of fruitcakes?

And whoever heard of a school which anyone can enter but can never leave except under the penalty of death?!! What are we doing behind those high walls here – and what the heck are you – a Pakistani Stephen King?

Jesus Christ!

And how many OTHER Books have you taken the trouble to sit down and read with an open mind? Can that mind ever be opened, or it is just too jam-packed with pages of the Book! Are you like a can of tuna – with GWB the can opener, even though sometimes it may feel like a sledge hammer?!

And for Chrissake, stop scratching! Your beard could use some serious fumigation!

[… confusing Muslims with Islam.]

Well, why not? I am unaware of any Muslim who follows another religion. Can you name ONE?!

I think YOU are the confused person here – unless you are deliberately trying to obfuscate!

[I bad mouth them for the actions of the entire administration, which in turn controls the entire US forces currently engaged in illegal occupation of Iraq, Afghanistan, etc.]

There may exist legitimate differences of opinion on individual steps taken in the war on terror – but at least the whole of the US population knows what the issues are and why we did certain things – GWB has never claimed magical powers!

Need I remind you that the November 2004 elections – right in the middle of those wars – were OPEN? Need I remind you that the people of this country are well aware of the problems of the war and they STILL chose GWB!

Who the heck are YOU to tell us that our grabbing Afghanistan and Iraq does not pass YOUR mustard – where did you have your bunny parked when the Taleban was romping loose in your land of strategic depth – huffing and puffing harder than an elephant in heat – when those long black robes were validating their manhood by shooting women in punishment for who-knows-what trivial stuff – and your Pakistani leaders – both military and their civilian tail-wagging counterparts, were looking on benevolently!!

Which cave were YOU hiding in when your brave-fukking-soldiers-of-Islam were slitting the throats of newlyweds on civilian airplanes?

Cat got your tongue? Ask the almighty to give you one the next time you present your posterior to Him – as you bang that bearded head repeatedly into the ground – stone hitting stone!

[BTW, how many hearts and minds have the rest of the US forces been able to change?]
Give us time! Now let me flip the question – how many countries have willingly joined your Ummah fold against the USA?

I TOLD you before – stop scratching!!!

[On the other hand, we have yet to receive your definition of the word ``religion`` AND your response to the challenge put to you.]

What the heck you think I am, another Mullah?

[Hotline to Allah...
ABSOLUTELY! Read the Quran and Sunnah to understand the concept ... ]

There you go again – quoting your own brochures! Where is the pudding?

All I see is a LOT of pounding!

And so much scratching – what are you trying to do – a jihad on that lice – one lice at a time?

ntsyed #267 you say I AM a descendant of the Prophet (PBUH)

That is irrelevant. What is relevant is that you are a kafir because in making this claim you reject the Quranic injunction of the equality of ALL men before Allah.

And you are a lier when you claim imply that I am a Mirzai: you may try to prove that you are not a lier by cutting and pasting anything I have written that attributes the prophethood to Mirza.

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Ranjit mian...

Brilliant post... even if some what harshly worded...

The dishonesty and hypocrisy of this breed you have justifiably villified has stopped the two great nations of the subcontinent Indians and Pakistanis as well two great religious orders Hinduism and Islam from coming to terms with each other.

I am sure that with time... Pakistan and India can be at peace with each other, as confident South Asian successor states to the great imperial powers of the past...

This is front Page material. Please acknowledge & recognise it as such

#259 by ntsyed on May 30, 2006 5:03am PT


The man doesn`t even have the decency to commit suicide for using such a backdoor to the position he is in.


People whose leaders let a foreign power repeately bomb and kill their citizens on their own soil talking about leadership?

further to #262 and I say that you and your kind dont really believe in the Judgement Day since if you did you would take the Quran more seriously than throwing hollow phrases (of the kind I quoted) around and while ignoring and violating the substance of the message in every thing you do.

ntsyed:
wrt your meaningless assertion the Holy Book is still remains perfect and in its pure form Bird-brain maudoodiites like you understand the Quran even less than the bird below. Only trouble is the bird below is innocent, while you and your kind are the followers of Iblis who have confused and misled muslims for centuries.

Your very nick - implying descent from the prophet - indicates (even if it was true) your jehaaliyat and rejection of the message of God that all individuals are equal and that the prophet is a messenger of God and no more.

From your past record on cowk, I realize you will no doubt be tempted to write all sorts of abuse to me in return for this post - but it is you and your kind who will face the wrath of God on the Judgement Day (not that you maudoodites actually believe in such things).

Re: #258 by bjkumar on May 30, 2006 4:45am PT

Tell me dear, have you heard of an Ivy League student to switch institutions in middle of their course of degree? I`m sure you haven`t. And do you know why that is, because these students are at the best institutions for the disciplines they pursue and read from the best books.

Unlike any book written by any human being, the Holy Book is still remains perfect and in its pure form - a fact that even educated non-Muslims, Hindus included, agree upon. Again, your information is wrong that Muslims cannot study other religions. If that was the case, you couldn`t find people like Ahmed Deedat, Dr. Zakir Naik, and others who know more about Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, etc than the followers of these religions.

You see dear, still circling the point where you stood before; i.e. confusing Muslims with Islam. Apparently it`s too difficult for you to differentiate between the two, so you continue to digress every which way in face-saving maneuvers.

Bad-mouthing the USA all the time - for the bad action of a few soldiers in Iraq - isn`t that YOU do all the time, O bearded one!

Wrong again dear bj! I don`t bad mouth the USA for the actions of a few soldiers in Iraq. I bad mouth them for the actions of the entire administration, which in turn controls the entire US forces currently engaged in illegal occupation of Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. BTW, how many hearts and minds have the rest of the US forces been able to change?

Legitimacy...
Don`t weasel out on me. Give the answer!

The answer lies in my statement, if one knows how to process simple sentences.

On the other hand, we have yet to receive your definition of the word ``religion`` AND your response to the challenge put to you.

Hotline to Allah...
If that be the case, did He personally appoint you (and other Muslim clergy) his sole spokesman and make a decision to only talk to you and nobody else? What makes you so sure he does not talk to others?

ABSOLUTELY! Read the Quran and Sunnah to understand the concept ... but then you haven`t demonstrated the courage to do so, have you? HE assures us HIMSELF that HE does NOT talk to the one who do not believe in HIM. And phulleeeeeeeease do not say that we share the same God. God is only ONE - ALLAH. He`s neither begotten nor does He beget, and there is none Like HIM. Furthermore, there are no intermediaries between HIM and HIS believers. Others simply don`t believe in HIM, otherwise they wouldn`t feel the need to associate any person, place, or thing with Him. I suppose this is getting too complicated for you.

Now, if you expect me to respond to any more of your posts, please come up with the answers I`ve requested twice so far. Otherwise, hold your pieces together as best as you can, or waste your time wasting others` time.

:)~~

#259 by ntsyed

Pakistan was moving downhill at a much faster speed before he took over. Manmohan Singh came into power when things were going well for India. If BJP hadn`t goofed up internally, Manmohan Singh didn`t have a chance.

Ah, there come the ifs and buts. Unfortunately, you and I can only speculate but argue we can only on facts, Syed bhai, not on hypotheses.

Come to think of it, a foreigner - a naturalized Gandhi - slipped him into this position by hiding him behind her sari. The man doesn`t even have the decency to commit suicide for using such a backdoor to the position he is in.

As if Mushy walked in legitimately? Manmohan Singh may not have walked in by virtue of popular support, but he`s earned his right to stay there by his wise policies and unimpeachable integrity. The only ones who should be committing suicide are the average Pakis. Mushy says if he wasn`t at the helm, Pakistan would be in a soup. Doesn`t speak too much about the ability of the average Paki (and that includes YOU, Syed bhai), does it?

Re: # 257

Didn`t I say that I disagree with him on policies?

Still, one should have the courage to call a spade a spade. He is better than all the ones mentioned. Pakistan was moving downhill at a much faster speed before he took over. Manmohan Singh came into power when things were going well for India. If BJP hadn`t goofed up internally, Manmohan Singh didn`t have a chance. Come to think of it, a foreigner - a naturalized Gandhi - slipped him into this position by hiding him behind her sari. The man doesn`t even have the decency to commit suicide for using such a backdoor to the position he is in.

chhi chhi ... chhi chhi

:S~~

#249 NTSyed

Ye kya mmamla hai. Abhie aye, mujhse bus ek lafaz boley aur teerath yatra pur chal diye!

[...suppose if you were to be a physician, do you mean to say that you`d rather not acquire the proper education to be a good physician, just because some physicians are not practicing medicine correctly;]

That is extremely true! One must get good education. Now, tell me sir - what would one think of a doctor who has gone to just ONE school, was taught from just ONE medical book, absolutely prohibited from reading other books and contemplating any medication other than listed in that book over a millennium ago, by just ONE teacher under penalty of getting beaten to death if the ``doctor`` were to switch to any different medical institution. Who would be considered a quack - the one who went to such an institution or others?

[.... if an entire nation is to be stereotyped for the actions of few...then I`m afraid your lip service here may be a disservice to your American nationality and Indian heritage.]

Bad-mouthing the USA all the time - for the bad action of a few soldiers in Iraq - isn`t that YOU do all the time, O bearded one!

[[What gives YOU such legitimacy?]
Simple...sometimes the legitimacy of one`s arguments and actions lies in the illegitimacy of the others` arguments and actions... ]

Don`t weasel out on me. Give the answer!

[As for the hotline to Allah T`ala...He has extended the access to every one of us.]

If that be the case, did He personally appoint you (and other Muslim clergy) his sole spokesman and make a decision to only talk to you and nobody else? What makes you so sure he does not talk to others?

#253 by ntsyed

But just so you don`t sizzle yourself to death, today Musharraf is a much better politician than ABV, MS, BB, NS, and everyone else combined. Regardless of my disagreement with his policies, and to everyone`s chagrin - especially Hindian, he`s got his hooves and the brain situated in the right places.

And pray tell us why? Ever since Mushy took over, its been all downhill for Pakistan. At least before Mushy, deniability saved Pakistan, but no more. Today Mushy is forced to acknowledge the presence of foreign extremists in Pakistan, so much so that the US bombs Pakistan with impunity and all Mushy can do is stand red-faced in front of his Corps Commanders and Chief Ministers. The Bajaur incident where Predator drones bombed a village is the lowest point of all. Not even an apology was demanded and nor was it forthcoming. The US official went so far as to say that he could not guarantee that there would be no more such strikes.

Compare it with the nuclear deal masterfully negotiated by Manmohan Singh and his government. To this day, US lawmakers are crying hoarse that the US got nothing in return for the deal it offered.

Re: # 254

because he`s costing them more than they had originally intended to invest in this region. But may be you`re not so keen on global politics.

anyway, I hope I helped!

:)~~