Farzana Versey April 26, 2006
#23 Posted by dost_mittar on April 27, 2006 6:45:06 am
Dear Farzana:
Thanks for using your talents to throw spotlight on another dark spot in our society. These prostitutes are something our society cannot do without, yet chooses to ignore them as if they do not exist.
The tragedy is that, whatever their role models, most girls will end up in their mother`s profession and most boys will end up as pimps or working for a ``bhai``.
Thanks for using your talents to throw spotlight on another dark spot in our society. These prostitutes are something our society cannot do without, yet chooses to ignore them as if they do not exist.
The tragedy is that, whatever their role models, most girls will end up in their mother`s profession and most boys will end up as pimps or working for a ``bhai``.
#22 Posted by FarzanaVersey on April 27, 2006 5:21:47 am
#1 by Urstruly:
[As far as I know it is a global feminist agenda to promote that prostitution is an unalienable right of a woman. They made it very clear in the Beijing 2000 conference and demanded that this point must be included in the United Nation`s charter of human rights; where they demanded that prostitution be considered as any other profession with health care benefits and pension plan etc.]
I will not argue with you about the feminist agenda; suffice to say that since CSWs exist, it cannot be ignored. For that results in further exploitation. Please understand that this is not just about call girls, but situations where force is used. Health care is of primary importance. You are talking about conferences; talk about the ground reality. How many women have access to any health care? Forget a pension plan, they do not know where their next meal will come from. Many of them are minors – what do they know about their rights?
[In my short life span and living in different cultures what I have found to be the common across the board is the fact that woman is the worst enemy of other woman - whether it is saas bahu, nand bhawaj, boardroom, bedroom, international forum or.....just fill in the blank.]
It is a generalisation, although not entirely untrue. Just as men can be men’s enemies, except they get less emotional about it. But, in the organisation where I was, your contention was confirmed – when the footpath sex workers were asked to send their children to the crèche, the ones in the ‘homes’ objected because they were lower down in status.
Also, many deny their profession, but were more than willing to point out other women’s kids as “woh &%$# ka beta…”.
- - -
#10 by GT:
Your reply to urstruly…
[Furthermore, I absolutely fail to understand why a prostitute should not pay income tax, get social security, etc. Why shouldn`t the client pay value added sales tax which, amongst other things, can be used to fund medical insurance for prostitutes and their families. It is a trade for heaven`s sake. We know that such trade exists. Who are we fooling by not recognising this trade? If you want to restrict such trades, then recognize it first as a trade and then tax it. Stop this blame game and holier than thou attitude. It only increases misery.]
I agree in principle, but what happens when it is not considered legal? I absolutely agree that it should be recognised as a trade, but in countries in our part of the world, the stigma associated even with clients is tremendous. Even in ‘rich’ brothels, they would never agree to such an arrangement. Besides, there is the possibility of an ancillary industry of non-taxable prostitution springing up in no time. The cops would ensure that.
- - -
Zeena:
Thanks for sharing. I have been there, though I did not have time to see too many paintings. I do believe that since most such children have to end up living within the environment, they need to be given non-formal education and to rise above their environmental restrictions.
Have you read Dr. Fouzia Saeed’s book, ‘Taboo’? It deals with the Heera Mandi red-light district.
PS: May I request you address me by name, initials or anything, except my designation? I am a writer and responding in that capacity.
[As far as I know it is a global feminist agenda to promote that prostitution is an unalienable right of a woman. They made it very clear in the Beijing 2000 conference and demanded that this point must be included in the United Nation`s charter of human rights; where they demanded that prostitution be considered as any other profession with health care benefits and pension plan etc.]
I will not argue with you about the feminist agenda; suffice to say that since CSWs exist, it cannot be ignored. For that results in further exploitation. Please understand that this is not just about call girls, but situations where force is used. Health care is of primary importance. You are talking about conferences; talk about the ground reality. How many women have access to any health care? Forget a pension plan, they do not know where their next meal will come from. Many of them are minors – what do they know about their rights?
[In my short life span and living in different cultures what I have found to be the common across the board is the fact that woman is the worst enemy of other woman - whether it is saas bahu, nand bhawaj, boardroom, bedroom, international forum or.....just fill in the blank.]
It is a generalisation, although not entirely untrue. Just as men can be men’s enemies, except they get less emotional about it. But, in the organisation where I was, your contention was confirmed – when the footpath sex workers were asked to send their children to the crèche, the ones in the ‘homes’ objected because they were lower down in status.
Also, many deny their profession, but were more than willing to point out other women’s kids as “woh &%$# ka beta…”.
- - -
#10 by GT:
Your reply to urstruly…
[Furthermore, I absolutely fail to understand why a prostitute should not pay income tax, get social security, etc. Why shouldn`t the client pay value added sales tax which, amongst other things, can be used to fund medical insurance for prostitutes and their families. It is a trade for heaven`s sake. We know that such trade exists. Who are we fooling by not recognising this trade? If you want to restrict such trades, then recognize it first as a trade and then tax it. Stop this blame game and holier than thou attitude. It only increases misery.]
I agree in principle, but what happens when it is not considered legal? I absolutely agree that it should be recognised as a trade, but in countries in our part of the world, the stigma associated even with clients is tremendous. Even in ‘rich’ brothels, they would never agree to such an arrangement. Besides, there is the possibility of an ancillary industry of non-taxable prostitution springing up in no time. The cops would ensure that.
- - -
Zeena:
Thanks for sharing. I have been there, though I did not have time to see too many paintings. I do believe that since most such children have to end up living within the environment, they need to be given non-formal education and to rise above their environmental restrictions.
Have you read Dr. Fouzia Saeed’s book, ‘Taboo’? It deals with the Heera Mandi red-light district.
PS: May I request you address me by name, initials or anything, except my designation? I am a writer and responding in that capacity.
#21 Posted by FarzanaVersey on April 27, 2006 4:49:51 am
Thank you all for your comments…mainly for empathising with the children. It is always the subjects that bring out whatever the tone and sensitivity in the writing. (swarrier: It was a typo, not deliberate…thanks for pointing it out.)
#3 by zeemax:
[Having said that, it has been my observation that although forced prostitution or that due to extreme poverty exists, still much of it is voluntary. Particularly in affluent societies, it is entirely a matter of choice. Even in societies like ours, the profession runs through generations and more often than not it is the mother who sets the career for the daughters when they are old enough to claim the prized `nath uterwai`.]
In the area I have covered, they have been forced into it, sold in the market; at some point they resign themselves to the situation and do come to terms with it.
These women were keen that their children got an education and I have seen them at the municipal school, where the kids are later sent, waiting like any other anxious mother. Their daughters are, however, eyed by the madams and pimps as potential, and since many of these women are deeply in debt they borrow money from the lenders and get ensnared further, they have little choice.
Indeed, I have met women who are doing this voluntarily, but they belong to a different class. Congress House, notorious for its mujras where even some prominent ministers visited, would classify as such a place.
Btw, the rich yuppies have got into mujras – a sort of neo-feudalism.
- - -
#6 by delhiwala:
[We can all talk about it and feel sentimental. Yet there is nothing that can be done about this unless it comes from top echeleons of the society. Maybe Govt should take over these people and rehabiltate them in real sense, not like Nari Niketans and Anath Ashrams.]
I did try and avoid getting too sentimental, but one cannot change one’s nature…I am afraid the government is not of much help. There is a racket where even those women who have been ‘saved’ are sent to ministers. But there are several NGOs that are doing a tremendous job.
- - -
#9 by jang:
[very furtively written, and please write more, this is good, real, experience writing.]
Furtively? I give you the benefit of doubt about its usage…
[what is their relationship with other women? some of the brothels of bombay are run on the basis of villages where the women come from..e.g. there are aunties who run houses with women from villages in north karnataka. do the kids in these ``homes`` feel more secure or rooted?]
The aunty houses you talk about do have a community feeling, but the children still have the same queries. And the women do follow a hierarchy whereby the fight is who will take over as the next head. One of them told me that it was her greatest ambition, it was like she wanted to finally avenge the wrongs meted out to her by the gharwalli.
On one occasion I visited Talasari village where some of these girls were rehabilitated (I went unannounced because I wanted to see for myself how they were…I had to hitch a ride in a truck halfway from Uran); one young boy lived without his mother who was still working in the city. He ended up calling all the other women his mother. It did seem like any other large commune and sharing an afternoon meal with them made one realise that again this did not seem to be the solution. One of them showed me her very rough hands and said she was not interested in working in the fields. They too feel trapped, and some miss the city.
You have posed many questions and I have reams to write…am glad that my note-hoarding has not been such a bad idea and I may work on a series – for the whole atmosphere changes between day and night.
#3 by zeemax:
[Having said that, it has been my observation that although forced prostitution or that due to extreme poverty exists, still much of it is voluntary. Particularly in affluent societies, it is entirely a matter of choice. Even in societies like ours, the profession runs through generations and more often than not it is the mother who sets the career for the daughters when they are old enough to claim the prized `nath uterwai`.]
In the area I have covered, they have been forced into it, sold in the market; at some point they resign themselves to the situation and do come to terms with it.
These women were keen that their children got an education and I have seen them at the municipal school, where the kids are later sent, waiting like any other anxious mother. Their daughters are, however, eyed by the madams and pimps as potential, and since many of these women are deeply in debt they borrow money from the lenders and get ensnared further, they have little choice.
Indeed, I have met women who are doing this voluntarily, but they belong to a different class. Congress House, notorious for its mujras where even some prominent ministers visited, would classify as such a place.
Btw, the rich yuppies have got into mujras – a sort of neo-feudalism.
- - -
#6 by delhiwala:
[We can all talk about it and feel sentimental. Yet there is nothing that can be done about this unless it comes from top echeleons of the society. Maybe Govt should take over these people and rehabiltate them in real sense, not like Nari Niketans and Anath Ashrams.]
I did try and avoid getting too sentimental, but one cannot change one’s nature…I am afraid the government is not of much help. There is a racket where even those women who have been ‘saved’ are sent to ministers. But there are several NGOs that are doing a tremendous job.
- - -
#9 by jang:
[very furtively written, and please write more, this is good, real, experience writing.]
Furtively? I give you the benefit of doubt about its usage…
[what is their relationship with other women? some of the brothels of bombay are run on the basis of villages where the women come from..e.g. there are aunties who run houses with women from villages in north karnataka. do the kids in these ``homes`` feel more secure or rooted?]
The aunty houses you talk about do have a community feeling, but the children still have the same queries. And the women do follow a hierarchy whereby the fight is who will take over as the next head. One of them told me that it was her greatest ambition, it was like she wanted to finally avenge the wrongs meted out to her by the gharwalli.
On one occasion I visited Talasari village where some of these girls were rehabilitated (I went unannounced because I wanted to see for myself how they were…I had to hitch a ride in a truck halfway from Uran); one young boy lived without his mother who was still working in the city. He ended up calling all the other women his mother. It did seem like any other large commune and sharing an afternoon meal with them made one realise that again this did not seem to be the solution. One of them showed me her very rough hands and said she was not interested in working in the fields. They too feel trapped, and some miss the city.
You have posed many questions and I have reams to write…am glad that my note-hoarding has not been such a bad idea and I may work on a series – for the whole atmosphere changes between day and night.
#20 Posted by antamazol on April 27, 2006 1:31:17 am
Farzana,
you really made me sad.
it would be far better if nature had created men only and world would have free of all this non sense
you really made me sad.
it would be far better if nature had created men only and world would have free of all this non sense
#19 Posted by zeemax on April 26, 2006 10:22:06 pm
#10 by GT
Furthermore, I absolutely fail to understand why a prostitute should not pay income tax, get social security, etc. Why shouldn`t the client pay value added sales tax which, amongst other things, can be used to fund medical insurance for prostitutes and their families. It is a trade for heaven`s sake.
GT, Netherlands does just that. It is a `recognised` profession eligible for mortgage lending and all else. And I don`t see Netherlands degenerating into a moral abyss anytime soon.
Definitely, this business must not be allowed to remain underground like an unattended, festering sore.
Furthermore, I absolutely fail to understand why a prostitute should not pay income tax, get social security, etc. Why shouldn`t the client pay value added sales tax which, amongst other things, can be used to fund medical insurance for prostitutes and their families. It is a trade for heaven`s sake.
GT, Netherlands does just that. It is a `recognised` profession eligible for mortgage lending and all else. And I don`t see Netherlands degenerating into a moral abyss anytime soon.
Definitely, this business must not be allowed to remain underground like an unattended, festering sore.
#18 Posted by Zeena on April 26, 2006 10:20:21 pm
On side note:-
“The ultimate tragedy is not the oppression and cruelty by the bad people but the silence over that by the good people.”
Martin Luther K
“The ultimate tragedy is not the oppression and cruelty by the bad people but the silence over that by the good people.”
Martin Luther K
#17 Posted by Zeena on April 26, 2006 10:17:05 pm
Dear Chief Editor
Yes, your article showed us a new face of a hidden tragedy which only a sensitive mind and soul can feel with the depth of her sensitivity. Being sensitive in insensitive and indifferent world, your sensitivity couldn`t shake off emotions easily and you came up with this tragic article which has touched my soul deeply.
Your article depicts the dreams and desperation of life in these brothels through a poignant journey that clearly takes me back to my lane of memories when first time I went to see Iqbal Hussain`s ,``Cuckoo`s Nest,`` a restaurant in the haveli inside Heera Mandi, his home. Iqbal Hussain is the leading artist and professor in NCA(National college of arts Lahore) a very prestigious institutions of Pakistan. Iqbal Hussain is the son of a prostitute , born and raised in Heera Mandi who has no official father with out any family name to carry as a badge of identity. He has become a new identity for those fatherless miserable children of Heera Mandi, he is their voice , who is tough and at the sametime extremely artistic.
Cuckoo`s Nest was originally the residential brothel of his mother , which is decorated with Heera mandi`s real paintings and also of his aunts and his mother`s intermixed with Mary, Buddha and hanuman , all paintings are done by Iqbal Hussain, a proud son of a Prostitue called Nawab Jan.
Cuckoo`s Nest has now become the elitest place in the heart of Heera mandi.Heera Mandi has now transformed in to a ghetto with Iqbal Hussain`s Cuckoo`s Nest and his paintings which portray the lives of all those prostitutes from different angles and perspectives with a background music of gunghroos and Tablas in a smokey environment with the best and the tastiest food and Paan in the town.Iqbal`s paintings are sold as much as 5,000 pounds and more.
What touched me the most was a gloomy sadness in Iqbal`s Paintings with all the background of bright scheme of colors. Iqbal tells stories of different prostitues through his paintings that how they were trapped in this vicious circle of tortured reality , almost all of them came out of poverty.Iqbal also shows his feelings openly through his paintings as a caption, that if he weren`t a painter , he would have committed suicide. He helps as many women as possible to escape Heera mandi and not only that he has started a home for other fatherless kids from Heera mandi and a food street for prostitutes who wish to quit their profession with an alternative for living.
There are two categories of prostitutes,a):- Who do prostitution with their full consent with out any external pressure, this is called profession, which must be legalized and their fatherless kids must be given every right to have access to all the pleaures of life as their other counterparts have.
b):- Who do prostitution with out their free will and are forced in to it, their bad luck. They are miserable and they are the ones who need social help the most along with their fatherless children.
Who will help them in this despair and despondancy? May be another Professor Iqbal Hussain....................
Yes, your article showed us a new face of a hidden tragedy which only a sensitive mind and soul can feel with the depth of her sensitivity. Being sensitive in insensitive and indifferent world, your sensitivity couldn`t shake off emotions easily and you came up with this tragic article which has touched my soul deeply.
Your article depicts the dreams and desperation of life in these brothels through a poignant journey that clearly takes me back to my lane of memories when first time I went to see Iqbal Hussain`s ,``Cuckoo`s Nest,`` a restaurant in the haveli inside Heera Mandi, his home. Iqbal Hussain is the leading artist and professor in NCA(National college of arts Lahore) a very prestigious institutions of Pakistan. Iqbal Hussain is the son of a prostitute , born and raised in Heera Mandi who has no official father with out any family name to carry as a badge of identity. He has become a new identity for those fatherless miserable children of Heera Mandi, he is their voice , who is tough and at the sametime extremely artistic.
Cuckoo`s Nest was originally the residential brothel of his mother , which is decorated with Heera mandi`s real paintings and also of his aunts and his mother`s intermixed with Mary, Buddha and hanuman , all paintings are done by Iqbal Hussain, a proud son of a Prostitue called Nawab Jan.
Cuckoo`s Nest has now become the elitest place in the heart of Heera mandi.Heera Mandi has now transformed in to a ghetto with Iqbal Hussain`s Cuckoo`s Nest and his paintings which portray the lives of all those prostitutes from different angles and perspectives with a background music of gunghroos and Tablas in a smokey environment with the best and the tastiest food and Paan in the town.Iqbal`s paintings are sold as much as 5,000 pounds and more.
What touched me the most was a gloomy sadness in Iqbal`s Paintings with all the background of bright scheme of colors. Iqbal tells stories of different prostitues through his paintings that how they were trapped in this vicious circle of tortured reality , almost all of them came out of poverty.Iqbal also shows his feelings openly through his paintings as a caption, that if he weren`t a painter , he would have committed suicide. He helps as many women as possible to escape Heera mandi and not only that he has started a home for other fatherless kids from Heera mandi and a food street for prostitutes who wish to quit their profession with an alternative for living.
There are two categories of prostitutes,a):- Who do prostitution with their full consent with out any external pressure, this is called profession, which must be legalized and their fatherless kids must be given every right to have access to all the pleaures of life as their other counterparts have.
b):- Who do prostitution with out their free will and are forced in to it, their bad luck. They are miserable and they are the ones who need social help the most along with their fatherless children.
Who will help them in this despair and despondancy? May be another Professor Iqbal Hussain....................
#16 Posted by kalihawa on April 26, 2006 9:18:43 pm
When you follow thoughts, you produce great work and when thought follows an agenda you misjudge people in not knowing the truth. Your piece on Banares Blasts was good this one is a masterpiece but attack on Amartya Sen was frivolous.
#15 Posted by hamzaad on April 26, 2006 8:28:45 pm
Versey,
You must admit to yourself that you are better in descriptive narrative than trying to analyse them.
`The biggest problem was: how do you ask a five-year-old what prostitution is?`
Why can`t you bring yourself to explaining the situation in a cold manner? Do emotions get in the way? Have you resolved the situation in a calculated manner in your own head? Do you need HP to explain it to you since you won`t listen to kaka?
`That they managed to even articulate anything was amazing.`
Why would you say that? How can `knowing` that their mothers are getting invaded in her privates, control their articulation. These are the stigmas of a middle-class mentality. In some ways, that is the source of most angst..
You must admit to yourself that you are better in descriptive narrative than trying to analyse them.
`The biggest problem was: how do you ask a five-year-old what prostitution is?`
Why can`t you bring yourself to explaining the situation in a cold manner? Do emotions get in the way? Have you resolved the situation in a calculated manner in your own head? Do you need HP to explain it to you since you won`t listen to kaka?
`That they managed to even articulate anything was amazing.`
Why would you say that? How can `knowing` that their mothers are getting invaded in her privates, control their articulation. These are the stigmas of a middle-class mentality. In some ways, that is the source of most angst..
#14 Posted by nasah on April 26, 2006 7:22:22 pm
a courageous moving piece -- Farzana at her best penwomanship -- bravo!
#13 Posted by nasah on April 26, 2006 7:20:30 pm
a couragous moving piece -- Farzana at her best penwomanship -- bravo!
#12 Posted by anil on April 26, 2006 5:17:59 pm
Farzana:
You should make a documentary out of it. If you are interested, I can consider financing such a documentary, and distribution.
Anil
You should make a documentary out of it. If you are interested, I can consider financing such a documentary, and distribution.
Anil
#11 Posted by GT on April 26, 2006 3:36:51 pm
Re: # 7 by Urstruly,
Urstruly sahib,
You say:
``I don`t know what to think about their causes anymore because they keep on confusing me. ``
I say:
``Try a bit harder to understand.``
Urstruly sahib,
You say:
``I don`t know what to think about their causes anymore because they keep on confusing me. ``
I say:
``Try a bit harder to understand.``
#10 Posted by GT on April 26, 2006 3:13:06 pm
Urstruly etc.,
The article, as far as I understand is not so much about prostitutes but about the children of prostitutes. It does not take a rocket scientist to understand that these children did not choose their parents. Yes, some of the prostitutes may have chosen to have children (as the article notes) but the rationale behind this choice (as mentioned in the article) is not very different from that of other mothers. Or fathers for that matter. The article provides a peek at the emotional lives of children born to poor prostitutes. The author, as well as readers, may feel sad that they do not have a `home`. However, the author has not rushed ahead and offered a solution. If we readers are to discuss a solution to ease our `pain` then let me start by asserting that blaming and banning prostitution is not the solution. It has not worked for centuries. Furthermore, I absolutely fail to understand why a prostitute should not pay income tax, get social security, etc. Why shouldn`t the client pay value added sales tax which, amongst other things, can be used to fund medical insurance for prostitutes and their families. It is a trade for heaven`s sake. We know that such trade exists. Who are we fooling by not recognising this trade? If you want to restrict such trades, then recognize it first as a trade and then tax it. Stop this blame game and holier than thou attitude. It only increases misery.
#9 Posted by jang on April 26, 2006 3:02:13 pm
very furtively written, and please write more, this is good, real, experience writing.
what is their relationship with other women? some of the brothels of bombay are run on the basis of villages where the women come from..e.g. there are aunties who run houses with women from villages in north karnataka. do the kids in these ``homes`` feel more secure or rooted?
lamington rd has several brothels which share naighbor-spaces with electronics merchants and their store-rooms. in early evening (when rest of the market is still alive and before the serious dhanda-time begins) you can see the women with their kids do aarti-puja in their living rooms and watch their favorite TV serials..it looks almost a normal house except with a lot of women.
what is their relationship with other women? some of the brothels of bombay are run on the basis of villages where the women come from..e.g. there are aunties who run houses with women from villages in north karnataka. do the kids in these ``homes`` feel more secure or rooted?
lamington rd has several brothels which share naighbor-spaces with electronics merchants and their store-rooms. in early evening (when rest of the market is still alive and before the serious dhanda-time begins) you can see the women with their kids do aarti-puja in their living rooms and watch their favorite TV serials..it looks almost a normal house except with a lot of women.
#8 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on April 26, 2006 12:24:26 pm
FarzanaVersey {``They have nowhere to go. Only a mother to call their own. But even their mothers have too many men to cater too. ‘Fathers’ who keep coming in and out of the mother’s room as the children sit back and watch life being played out. They can call none of these men their father. No man will take the child away from here to lead them into the sunlight, the bright world where other children live.``}
Farzana,
Yet again your versatility and creativity has depressingly captured the fact that prostitution is NOT a victimless crime. After reading this article, who can defend prostitution as a God-given right for women? While not pleasant reading, your article has masterfully brought to life the daily tragedies in these young lives. The plight of the children and the helplessness of the women as they become trapped in this cruel and vicious cycle are extremely sad. I once saw a documentary about the children of prostitutes in India and how this curse affected their young tender lives in a very corroding and harsh manner. I think that this article captures the atmosphere of the debris found in places such as Grant Road and Tijuana. Beautifully written and presented with great sensitivity. Thanks.
Farzana,
Yet again your versatility and creativity has depressingly captured the fact that prostitution is NOT a victimless crime. After reading this article, who can defend prostitution as a God-given right for women? While not pleasant reading, your article has masterfully brought to life the daily tragedies in these young lives. The plight of the children and the helplessness of the women as they become trapped in this cruel and vicious cycle are extremely sad. I once saw a documentary about the children of prostitutes in India and how this curse affected their young tender lives in a very corroding and harsh manner. I think that this article captures the atmosphere of the debris found in places such as Grant Road and Tijuana. Beautifully written and presented with great sensitivity. Thanks.
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