Righting the Wrongs in Ladakh-Baltistan

harimau,
Though democracy remains experimental etc, your assertions are wrong. There is diversity but all the same sub nationalism also remains part of the nationhood. Plz dont deflect the discussion.

As for Balti Murgh, its another name for Karahi Chicken. Its origins lie in NWFP and Balochistan. The meat in small pieces is stir fried in oil/ghee and cooked in its own moisture. Then tamatoes and masalas are added to taste.

Karahi tiyar hai

The modern dish became famous because of Bhatti Tikka Shop at Mozang Lahore. Their cook Jalal ud din, a Kashmiri from Bagh later shifted to Rawalpindia nd was employed by a butcher to make similar Karahi. The butcher became rich into JAHANGHIR BALTI MURGH, and efcourse Jalal known now as Bhatti left in the lurch.


Northern areas are distinct in three ways. Areas around Chilas have gujjars, pathans, hindkos and some local Gilgities and Baltis. It borders NWFP and there is lots of Pathan influence there. Fairiies Meadows close to Nanga Parbat is located here. Further right are the deosai plains and the Babusar Pass also used by Alexander. Some say that most locals are of Greek lineage.

Gilgit itself has a large imprint of the moguls and turkic people. People in Hunza have very long life spans. They are invariably tall, well built and handsome. They are mostly Sunni though Ismailis are growing fast.

Baltistan is tyhe backyard. Neglected and remote. There are as many dialects as villages and in same propotion varios sects of Shiaism. Majority are Shia in various categoraies. Good hardy people, living in baject poverty. This is the are that has K2, Hidden Peak
(Gashebrum1), Gashebrum2, 3, 4 5, Mashebrum, Baltoro, Siachin etc.

Yes traces of Buddist practices can be found in remote villages, old monastaries exist including drawings on mountains. In antiquity, this entire region was linked to Swat, visible in cave and cliff paintings.

Surprisingly, many crosses are also seen. Biblical scholars opine that a christian heriric group had also inhabited this area but was eliminated ny the Zoarastrians and later muslims.

Re: # 19

Mr. Gul need to get his fact right.

1. Hunza is predominangitly ismaili, and not sunni
2. I have visited about 40 Balti resteurant in London alone which have been selling Balti food. Many of their printed manues carries a brief histroy and intro about Baltistan and influence of recipe and spice from Tibet, Sichuan, Tajik, Persia and Kashmir on Balti foos. part of it is fact part fiction. The fact is that Balti do have special food, cooked in special utinsil (kwat - a kind of cooker curved out of granite) which makes the cooking and food special.
3. Chilas has majority Sheena (sunni) population, many of them will have to be relocated once the Diamir / Bhasha dam is constructed. Gilgit has a mix (Sheen - Yashkun) population. Religiously it is equaly divided between Shia and Sunni population. Large number of Ismailis also live there. Yes, there is a pathan influence, most of the mochis and smuggler on KKH are pathans, yes they have been instrumental in bringing in charas, opium and klashinkove culture, not to mention the secterian voilance.

4. I have had opportunties to travel in NWFP (including swat) and Balochistan, compares to average individual in those two provinces, Baltis are far more civilized, peaceful and well off, yesterday and today...

harimau,
Though democracy remains experimental etc, your assertions are wrong. There is diversity but all the same sub nationalism also remains part of the nationhood. Plz dont deflect the discussion.

As for Balti Murgh, its another name for Karahi Chicken. Its origins lie in NWFP and Balochistan. The meat in small pieces is stir fried in oil/ghee and cooked in its own moisture. Then tamatoes and masalas are added to taste.

Karahi tiyar hai

The modern dish became famous because of Bhatti Tikka Shop at Mozang Lahore. Their cook Jalal ud din, a Kashmiri from Bagh later shifted to Rawalpindia nd was employed by a butcher to make similar Karahi. The butcher became rich into JAHANGHIR BALTI MURGH, and efcourse Jalal known now as Bhatti left in the lurch.


Northern areas are distinct in three ways. Areas around Chilas have gujjars, pathans, hindkos and some local Gilgities and Baltis. It borders NWFP and there is lots of Pathan influence there. Fairiies Meadows close to Nanga Parbat is located here. Further right are the deosai plains and the Babusar Pass also used by Alexander. Some say that most locals are of Greek lineage.

Gilgit itself has a large imprint of the moguls and turkic people. People in Hunza have very long life spans. They are invariably tall, well built and handsome. They are mostly Sunni though Ismailis are growing fast.

Baltistan is tyhe backyard. Neglected and remote. There are as many dialects as villages and in same propotion varios sects of Shiaism. Majority are Shia in various categoraies. Good hardy people, living in baject poverty. This is the are that has K2, Hidden Peak
(Gashebrum1), Gashebrum2, 3, 4 5, Mashebrum, Baltoro, Siachin etc.

Yes traces of Buddist practices can be found in remote villages, old monastaries exist including drawings on mountains. In antiquity, this entire region was linked to Swat, visible in cave and cliff paintings.

Surprisingly, many crosses are also seen. Biblical scholars opine that a christian heriric group had also inhabited this area but was eliminated ny the Zoarastrians and later muslims.

Colonel
Perhaps Ijaz Gul or Mr M Ismail Khan will know some!!

M. Ismail Khan and Ijaz Gul saheb,
One of you is from Nothern Areas and another has travelled extensively to those areas. Would you please tell us how many Buddhists still live in Nothern areas and how many functional monasteries are there? If possible, please post photographs of such monasteries.

Which one are more famous one?

Re: # 14
Friend
I have served / traveled extensively the northern areas during my service and as an amateur mountaineer with a number of foreign mountaineering expedition. Never heard of any sizeable Buddhists population or active monastery in pakistani territories.

Ladakhis are primarly Buddhist and folks from Gilgit are Muslims. The most you can say is that Kargil is Muslim and so people from Skardu might want to meet their relatives in Kargil and vice versa. The guys in Skardu have nothing to do with the Buddhists in Leh for instance, except that in 1947 they crossed over and looted the monasteries and destroyed the statues. So don`t bring Ladakh into the picture. Ladakh is not Muslim. In fact, Ladakh even asked to be transferred to China rather than live under the Muslim majority of Kashmir Valley.

As to hamidm2`s question about what language these people speak, the language/dialect varies every couple of miles. Of course the folks here were/are as incurious about learning their own language as the Masanamuthus of Tamil Nadu that it took a white man, G W Leitner, to write the first dictionary of the language of Dardistan, to establish what grew into the University of the Punjab at Lahore and even the Oriental Institute in Woking, England.

Ref ijaz_gul #4

[....I am amazed at your thoughts. The people of Northern Areas never consider themselves as kashmiris and are amongst the staunchest of Pakistanis. Please do not give distorted versions. We are a federation and must (respect) the smallest of all ethnic/ relogious minorities.]

On the other hand, we Pakistanis don`t give a sh!t about the majority, particularly when they are dark, short, wear the dhoti instead of the shalwar, and speak Bengali instead of Urdu. In fact, we kill and rape them by the millions.

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#9 thanks colonel..i was aware of this, and that is why the ;-)

in fact the chicken comes in a little balti (a bucket).

i love the balti chicken with a lager at garfunkels pub in terminal 4 at heathrow ;-)

kargil seems like the place where buddhism ends and islam begins in ladakh. kargil, although mostly shia-muslim, still has some buddhists and their (live) monestaries.

http://kargil.nic.in/tourism/monastery.htm

are there any buddhist with live monasteris in skardu or other part of northern areas? what are the famous dead monasteries in that area?

Re: # 7 Jang;

A minor correction on Balti Chicken;

It has not originated in Baltistan. The Balti Chicken ( in punjabi language Balti Murgh ) is a favourite dish from Gujranwala, Lahore in Punjab Pakistan. Next time when you enjoy Balti Chicken in heathrow, you should have the murky streets of inner city of Gujranwala and Gowalmandi Lahore should be in the backdrop of your mind.

Re: # 7
My Relatives used to go for hunting in Skardu before 1947.
It is definitely not Pakistani type place.

Re: # 8

Dehliwala;

I guess you are right. Skardu is unlike any typical Pakistani place; same as most places in the southern india are not like India either. Their is something called diversity, and it is a desirealbe feature in the making of any nation.
Perhaps the place which emanates Pakistan most is none else but Dehli itself. Dehli`s most prodigious son is who else but general Musharraf.

#1
I have a suggestion here:
Why not lease the Kashmir to some American based company for 50 years. We will develop the tourism there and give the profits based on 2/3/, 1/3 ro India/Pakistan respectively. Everybody is happy this way.

American company will pump in money to develop Skiing/skating/vacation resorts and other infrastructure.

We are a federation and must respect the smallest of all ethnic/ religious minorities.