Modi’s Men and their Mean Machines

Lets look how vile is English Media in India.
The front page headline on cnn-ibn:
MODI BULLDOZER HITS ROADBLOCK

What would FV say about this: I am just reporting what is reported in news.

soysauce, you are looking for context when things are simple. And your presumption is wrong thus your context.
psuedo seculars like you who has different standards for treating a dargah and temples are the real culprit.
So, if 100 y.o. dargah needs to be removed we need to find a 100 y.o. temple.
Nothing was malicious or corruptible until a dargah was demolished.

Now SC stays the demolition drive in Baroda. The protester of Delhi demolition drive should learn from this. They need to riot and not just protest peacefully. If few people (minority) get killed there good changes that central government and SC will come to your aid.

samosa, context my dear boy, context!
You were equating the demolition of dargah which probably has been around since before there was traffic as we know it with temples (i`m presuming here) that dot the footpath of any indian city. They are not the same.
If hundred-year old temples were removed forcibly and aggressively, along with hundred-year old dargahs or mosques i`d call that stupid. This one smells malicious and venal.

# 98
soysauce, you are fooling yourself if you believe that protest would not have happend if the dargah was 25 years old or even 5 years old.

Did the protest happen because it was a dargah or because it was 100 years old?

Ahmedabad Municipal Corporation has removed historic structure within the walled city and this includes parts of Jain temples which were more than 100 years old near the streets leading to Ahmedabad Railway station.

Completely different from the topic of demolishing old historic structure, I also would like to know whether any muslims protested when Saudi Arabia demolished the `home of the Prophet` in Mecca is to make way for a parking lot, two 50-storey hotel towers and seven 35-storey apartment blocks; a project

samosa, what kind of temples are these? Century-old?

Khamkhwa #82 and HP #85

Congratulations on your appointments as self-appointed grantors of Muslimhood and Pakistani citizenship. So now Ismailis are no longer Muslim? First the Ahmedis, now the Ismailis, next the Asna Ashuri Shias, and pretty soon all Sunni Muslims, except for the very rabid Wahabbi Sunnis, will be ejected from this wonderful self-destructive religion. The matter would be very funny, if the GoP wasn`t actually engaged in such demagoguery.

As for Pakistani citizenship, I will refer all ``stranded`` Pakis in BD to Mr. HP to obtain his permission to be repatriated. I will also advise them not to hold their breaths as they wait patiently for his Paki and Muslim sense of justice. While you may not consider me to be a Pakistani, I will feel free to visit Karachi as often as I want. Too bad, neither of you gets a vote in this matter.

For your information, I never knew the word ``Punjoo.`` I learned it on Chowk after Mr. Stuka used it. I believe that Mr. Stuka is an Indian Punjabi and has no objection to the abbreviation.

Similarly, Paki means ``cleanliness`` in Urdu and Farsi. I can understand the objection that Mr. HP and, especially Khamkhwa, would have with ``cleanliness.`` Neither is close to God and both are neither Pak nor clean. If the British turned Paki into a bad word, why do Pakis pay so much attention to what the British tell them to do? Isn`t partitioning a united India, murdering thousands of people, and looting innocent Hindus and Sikhs enough to please their former masters?

Before we continue the mad tradition of TNT imposed upon us by the ``divide and rule`` British masters, let us all cool off and review the various situations rationally:

Killing of innocent Hindus in Kashmir (or anywhere else) is barbaric, cruel, premeditated, and deserves to be punished by a rapid and mighty assault on Jihadists and their known supporters. This is terrorism and the retribution meted out to Al-Kayda and Tally Ban is a correct model.

Demolition of historic buildings, whether to make room for Hindu temples, Muslim mosques, Jewish temples, parking lots, or highways needs to be accomplished through meticulous discussions with interested parties, historical societies, museums, and possibly even UNESCO. This is not a purely religious or communal issue - it`s a matter of preserving human culture and history. There is no need to rubber stamp such demolitions in haste.

People should have a right to demonstrate peacefully, express their views rationally, and lobby their elected representatives and rulers to support their causes.

When people use violence, destruction, and interference with others` rights, it is time for law and order to be imposed quickly and effectively with as little violence as possible to bring the situation back to ``normal.``

Tragic events such as terrorism, murder, arson, rape, and violence should not be used as ``extra points`` to intimidate, humiliate, or irritate your opponents who have nothing to do with that immoral, illegal and pernicious action. These acts have no religion, no language, no race, and certainly no nationality. We need to be forceful, determined, and just in our actions to stamp out this monstrosity from our midst.

Having said all this, let me be more specific:

Killing of a Hindu in reprisal for a Muslim death, or vice versa, is wrong, immoral, murderous, irrational, and moreover very stupid.

Putting on uniforms to identify with a religion, race, province, or nation and then using that uniform to selectively injure, kill, rape, or burn others who have different uniforms are also in the stupid category. People dressed in the same uniform as yours are not ALL your friends (in fact most of your real and personal enemies usually wear the same uniform as you). Conversely, just because some people wear a different uniform, they are not ALL your enemies (in fact you probably have nothing to do with most of them).

Blaming FV or even each other for the grotesque killings in Kashmir or the demolitions and deaths in Baroda is not going to solve anything. I can`t imagine too many people here will support that kind of murderous behavior.

Thank you for your understanding.

# 96 Salim said: ``Demolition of historic buildings............UNESCO``.
Baroda municipality got order from Gujarat High court to clear all the religious structure without any discrimination. The government officials held talk with respective communities and started the demolition drive on April 3rd. It removed 4 Hindu temples and on May 1st it removed dargah. The funny thing is that riots started only after dargah was demolished and not temples. It shot 2 protester while trying to control the rioters.
I would like to know how they could have handled this in a better way.

Now lets look at Congress reaction to Baroda riots and Kashmir Killings.
It has been reported that the Centre has given a `firm` message to Modi Government in Gujarat while what message does Gulam Nabi Azad get from government. NOTHING
After demolition of 4 temples and 1 dargah what does central government say: The Vadodara administration could have avoided demolition of a dargah in view of the people`s sentiments associated with the old shrine.
My question is why to avoid demolition of minority religioius structure and not of majority
Now SC is thrashing Gujarat High Court that their decision to demolished religious structure without discrimination was based on just news report.
What did SC rely when they transferred the court case from Gujarat courts to Maharashtra. What did they rely on. They relied on Media reports that the atmosphere in Gujarat was not conducive for those cases.

All the demolition was approved by state high court.
I believe that even after the riots state court told the officials to continue with their demolition drive. But supreme court has ordered halt to demolition now after center asking them to intervene.
BJP/Modi government should be praised for controlling the situation in 3 days. Its unfortunate that a father was killed by a mob and this mob should be brought to justice.

Its time government provides more firearms to police. Get away with lathi and give every havaldar an automatic weapon. These will truly bring the mob under control quickly.

DM
No one is comparing killings of hindus to killings in baroda. The bias of FV is shown through her Modi-bashing for accusing BJP for death of of one muslim.
If you try to analyze the news than on May 1st there were protest by muslims against the demolition of dargah. Now the questions is SHOULD POLICE TRY TO CONTROL THE PROTEST SO THAT THEY DONT DESTROY PUBLIC AND PRIVATE PROPERTY? I am guessing people would answer yes and thats what they did. They fired tear gas and used some lathi. But this was not sufficient as a result police had to use live ammunation. This killed 2 protester. To get the situation in control that same day evening there was curfew in part of baroda. Next day curfew was extended to more areas. How can police still be accused of being ineffective.
You better use your intellect while analysing who and how these general perceptions are generated.

Farzana,
This is an excellent article, that is very well argued with none of the usual stereotyping. One doesn`t have to be a muslim to condemn the deliberate insensitivity of the official hooligans. Wealth doesn`t make you forward thinking. It leads to arrogance, if anything.

Re: # 92
soysauce, first one needs to prove official hooligaism by Modi.
Removing of illegal structure was started from April 3rd. FOUR temples were demolished. No protest so far. May 1st a dargah is removed and protest starts.
The big question is how and who gathered people for protest. They should be held accountable for all the deaths neither the police nor BJP.

Hundreds of houses have been demolished in Delhi recently and in Chandigarh, they do it every other day....nothing happens.........touch some religious place, people are brought to streets by these politicians!! people need to grow up.

Talking about the state machinery....that will be used by the ruling people to further their own agenda...democracy or no democracy!

Re: # 89
[...Talking about the state machinery....that will be used by the ruling people to further their own agenda...democracy or no democracy!...]

Not really... ``state machinery`` works good in western countries - it can work in india too...

That`s the other part of the solution to this problem - rescue the ``state machinery`` from clutch of the vile politician... like their counterparts in US, the law enforcement agencies of india should be independent departments - no minister should have any direct control over them... the departments should have a multi-partisan legislative oversight boards. it will work wonders...

Those who are trying to compare killings of Hindus in Kashmir and those of Muslims in Gujarat forget a basic difference: Hindus are killed in Kashmir despite the govt`s efforts to protect them; the general perception is that Muslims are killed in Gujarat mostly because the police does not want to protect them.

FV:

``Filing a court case is a way out, but when it takes years for other serious issues to get a fair judgment or any judgment at all), do you think it would work here?``

I agree with this only partially. It may take years to get any decision from the courts, but it is the easiest thing to get a court injunction to stop any action until the courts decide; this is indeed the main reason why the Chinese can build a highway in months while the Indian authorities are fighting various NGOs in the courts to get the permission to demolish even illegal structures. This also raises another issue; presuming as I do that the muncipal action was designed to induce a riot, why do/did Muslims fall for it? Why can`t they take a simple court action or a peaceful demonstration, especially since they know that the police is biased against them -and not just in Gujarat?

Re: # 86 DM
[....Why can`t they take a simple court action or a peaceful demonstration, especially since they know that the police is biased against them -and not just in Gujarat?...]

Exactly... Why do we always riot at the drop of a hat?... especially for muslim communities around the country - riot has become the default way of protest... at the drop of a hat - they fan out in murderous rampage like brain-dead lunatics... as if being a muslim gives them a license to create mayhem...

And inevitably - the reaction from police and majority community is swift and equally murderous. End result - more muslims end up dying and losing proerty then anybody else... and yet no lesson is ever learnt - next time something happens - the same routine starts all over again...

In the mean time - politicians make hay...islamists cry copius tears... commies write volumes of non-sense in their rags... life goes on - nobody learns a thing, no remedial meaure is ever taken.. the cycle repeats itself again and again and again...

I don`t want to inflame anybody - but I am going ask this: Why are indian muslims so stupid?...