Modi’s Men and their Mean Machines

Phew! what a venom! What a biased ranting and raving!

And then you wonder why there are Hindu extremists and Hindutvadis.

Despite your claims, feeble efforts to portray yourself as neutral
you come across as a frenzied partisan communalist.

FarzanaVersey {``A 32-year-old man was burnt alive by a crowd of 1,500, two days after the demolition.
.... Those who have faith believe. And those who want to prove that their beliefs are supreme make a spectacle of their own faith.
.... When you pray you are essentially talking to your soul. Why, then, let that private conversation become a tamasha?
...He should start with his own party’s Mukhtar Abbas Naqvi who started dancing the minute actor Feroz Khan made some negative comments about Pakistan, calling him a “true nationalist”. ``}


Farzana,

I love the way you fuse various seemingly unrelated events into your central theme for many of your articles. You tie together bits and pieces of news into a tidy bundle to expose the hypocrisy and mental disease afflicting society`s holy cows. Once again, you have authored a moving, informative, but very scathing sarcasm against bigotry, jingoism, and chauvinism. You didn`t state it openly, but to me it`s obvious that you are more incensed at the murder of the 32-year old man than at the demolition of the dargah. I agree with you - our priorities should always be with the sanctity and preservation of human life.

I am delighted at your consideration of prayer as a private conversation. I too feel the same way. Often, I don`t feel like joining other believers in a jamaat type prayer, preferring to say my own words to my own God, in my own way, in the privacy of my own soul.

Finally, please go easy on Feroz Khan. He is an extrovert and certainly not a diplomat. From what little I know about the incidence, his Pakistani host Fukhr-e-Alam was the instigator. Regardless, the Government of Pakistan had no right in expelling Feroz and not allowing him to proceed to Karachi. I see this as another Lahori attempt to dominate Karachi`s affairs. :) Thanks.

#1,
Chup hoja salley!

She is darned right.
Since when an old Sufi Dargah is an enroachment?
Dargah came before the Municipality office came.

Gujrat is becoming a hotbed of communal activities, and she is right BJP is using that as a trend setter for other parts of India.

When did Muslims in Gujrat fought against Hindus? I have never heard of that.
In U.P yes, I agree sometimes Muslims initiate the riots, but the poor Gujju Muslims does not deserve this, and all sensible Indians need to condemn this violence without any hesitation.

This gives a very bad face to India overseas and whole world looks at India as communal country.

They are taking unnecessary Panga.

Dear Farzana:

``Surely, we cannot bring in history on every occasion and most certainly not to justify the acts of elected leaders in a democracy.``

Well said!

When I read about the news, I initially thought that it was the usual noise against municipal authorities doing their job, until I found out, as you have pointed out, that this ``encroachment`` has been there since more than a century. Modi may not have been directly involved in this affair - he probably has nothing to gain politically at this point and was doing alright with his newly-acquired image of an efficient administrator - but he has created a climate in Gujarat where any communal administrator can create a mischief with impunity; more than likely, the purpose was to provoke a riot and that purpose was achieved.

The municipal authorities may not have done anything illegal in demolishing this dargah, which according to the reports, was reverred by both Hindus and Muslims; if so, they were wongfully legal.

These Muslims who are in BJP.

I dont now how they manage their daily lives?

My dad used to know Sikandar Bakht, and personally he was a very likeable person. But his views on BJP and India, surprise me......

bharath #1 {``Phew! what a venom! What a biased ranting and raving!
And then you wonder why there are Hindu extremists and Hindutvadis>``}

Bharath Bhai,
On this one, you are acting too much like a jingoistic chauvinist. Please try to read the same article that I read. Farzana is against religious bias whether in the tamasha of public prayer or in the demolition of harmless relics to gain votes. She is also pointing out the pusillanimous behavior of notorious crusaders for justice. There are Hindu extremists and Hindutvadis, just as there are Muslim extremists and Jihadists, because of unsupervised and insincere procreation. Relax and do try to keep an open mind. Thanks. :)

#1

What`s wrong with the article? FV`s just asking why a 200 year old dargah was demolished? Was any reason given? And after 2002 shouldn`t this be handled a little more sensitively, even if the dargah had to go?

What`s being built there, that it was so imperative to knock it down?

Does anybody have any details on the demolition?

i thought things in india cannot be demolished that easily, you need a court order. was there none in this case?

what next, sidhi-vinayak tample since its a traffic nightmare?
how about burying haji-ali under a flyover?

Doesn’t India have an Imminent Domain like we have in Pakistan, where State can demolish any place to build what it wants?

Warrier Ji, the State is widening the road, and the Darghah stood smack in the middle of it. Some compromise should have been worked out. Why are people so messed up?

#7, swarrier {``FV`s just asking why a 200 year old dargah was demolished? ``}
Warrier,
I think that she is more upset at the murder of the 32 year old man who was just driving his car. I have never been to Gujarat and from what I have been reading and hearing, I don`t think I will even try. What a shame that a country on the threshold of modernity has to put up with this gang of Nazis in one of its more ``advanced`` states?

Re: # 8
Jang, remember Arthur Phillip Dent`s house. I think the court order may have been there, and either nobody paid attention to it, or it was being contested.
I think I will concur with DM`s analysis here, somebody wanted to provoke a riot.

temples, dargahs and gurdwaras are on numerous roads and streets...many a times standing in the middle of it....but now that they are there, government should find out an alternate to traffic rather than demolish them...that is assuming that was the real reason to demolish this dargaah in question, which it does not seem to be.

I have seen some gurdwaras and dargaahs in East Punjab go up right on the roads in the alst 20 years...such encroachment should be stopped no doubt.

that crummy crazy jihadi-imitating Hindutva basatrd is hell bent on destroying the intercommunal harmony and tarnish the progressive image of India....

warriorji, typically no civil servant will do this without a court order. its his neck on the line. if there is a stay, they patiently wait exchanging pan-tambaku. demolitions tend to be always politically touchy even if its a mere pan thela, and more the reason why they do it by the book.

there was an incident when comissioner of nagpur was going around with a buldozer, he would wait with a buldozer, get a phone call that the signing is done and immediately bulldoze to avoid any phone calls from politicians etc. his argument was all he needed was the magistrate signature, and he was all set. in one case i heard the shopkeeper was shouting i have advaniji on the mobile phone..chandrashekar ignored him.

I thought, in India, a dead Muslim was a good Muslims; but now it seems like them Hindus are after dead Muslims too.

Re: # 9
Kul
I`m not saying it shouldn`t have gone. But if its 200 years old it can`t be an encroachment. I know a road in Ville-Parle that was widened. It has a tree right in the middle of it. They did not cut down the tree. It`s still there and people drive around it on the new wide road.
That`s why it would be good to know the details leading up to this demolition.

Salim
8 people were killed. Not just the poor person in his car. This is definitely for political mileage.


Modi like quite a few other politicians is an unscrupulous man. Yon Cassius has a lean and hungry look.

Re: # 14
Jang , Tinaikar used to do it in Bombay. Remember. He irritated the politicians no end.

#13, I think that nasah has expressed the genuine Indian feeling and the real concern - how can India gallop to the future when bigot facsists like Modi keep stirring the pot of communcal hatred?

#16, Swarrier, if 8 people were killed altogether that`s 8 times worse than I thought. People who kill human beings should be killed.

http://www.newkerala.com/news2.php?action=fullnews&id=52454

here some news about involvment by the court..i guess the demolition was ``legal``, even if the shrine was older, its possible for it to be ``illegal``.

mr salim, while firoz khan showed up here in this bundling of news as you noticed, the 32 hindu villager killing is rightly absent.

#14
I visit both Nagpur and Thane on trips to india and I cant say enough of the wonders he has done in both places. He bcame famous for this work in Thane and then was asked to do the same in Nagpur. Nagpur to my mind is one of the nicest towns in India (If you discount the weather).

That being said, in this case it seems like a deliberate provocation to a riot.

#18, Jang,
You have a good point. I agree that the massacre of innocent Hindus in Kashmir should be woven into the series of tragedies. I hope that we are not getting accustomed to terrorist acts, especially in Kashmir, just like the blowing up of 58+ people in Karachi was taken in stride.

She did, however, write a moving article with reference to the Benares bombing. I am glad that you pointed this out.

Re: # 15 urstruly

Why not?... you guys demolished Old Mo[PUBH]`s house in Mecca - why can`t we demolish a ``non-descript`` dargah in Baroda?

#21, Mohar11, {``Why not?... you guys demolished Old Mo[PUBH]`s house in Mecca - why can`t we demolish a ``non-descript`` dargah in Baroda?``}

Mohar Bhai,
As someone associated with construction, I regret this fascination with destruction:

Ghaznavi destroys Hindu temple in Somnath
Maharaja Aurangjeb destroys Hindu and Sikh temples and then builds other ones
Hindus destroy Babri Masjid
Muslims destroy ancient Hindu temples in Pakistan
Serbs destroy 16 century mosque in Banja Luka, Bosnia and other mosques in Foce, Bosnia
Croats destroy 16 century Turkish bridge in Mostar, Bosnia
Tally Ban Muslims destroy Bamiyan Buddha statues left alone by Ghaznavi, Genghis Khan, Babur, and even Breshnev.
Pakistani Sunni fanatics blow up several Shia mosques in Karachi
Iraqi Sunni Wahabbi Al-Kayda destroy Shia holy places in Samarra
Gujarati Hindus destroy dargah of Hazrat Rashiduddin Chishti - probably related to the big guy in Ajmer and his relative in Fatehpur Sikri.
Israelis are contemplating destroying the Al-Aqsa Mosque and Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem to rebuild their Temple.

Re: # 19
[.. in this case it seems like a deliberate provocation to a riot...]

May be... without taking any ``credit`` from Modi and his administartion`s tupidity - but why do we always riot?... a dargah was busted - we riot... some old actor kicked bucket - we riot... some politician said something - we riot.... some movie gets released - we riot... If we can`t have a civilized behavior in face of provocations[or none] - then how can we grow to progressive country....

So a dargah was demolished - so what? file a court case... is it worth dying for?... why always riot under slightest pretext or no pretext?...

Indians have to grow up....

Re: # 22 salim

that comment was only for Urstruly - to bust his self-righteous a$$... :)

Your are right - destruction of old buildings of cultural/religious significance is not warranted under any circumstances - but do we have to break into riots for that?... Do we really NOT have any other civilized ways to protest?...

By rioting - we are playing right into the hands of people who we despise... they are waiting for this, this gives them strength... why is it so difficult to understand this?... why are we always so freaking hot-headed and stupid?...

Mohar11,
We agree. Historic places and old relics should be preserved for cultural enrichment. People`s lives should be preserved for creating more relics for the future. A building is not worth the life of one person. There is no need to riot over wrong actions of any government - even our own. The loss of life over cartoons, actors dying, leaders dying, books being published, and political campaigns is stupid - Doesn`t anyone die for good reasons anymore? romance, love, broken heart, ...

Re: # 24

Because we have a vast number of people don`t have anything else to do but support walls. Because it`s the uemployed lumpen, who do it. Because they have nothing to call their own and take no pride in building anything. They are excellent fodder for politicians who don`t build anything either.

You don`t find the chap who works from 9 to 5 indulge in the rioting. Well at least not most times. If we don`t look out we`ll have to change our name to Riotistan.

While there is a lot of newspaper coverage of this issue, nobody is providing answers to certain questions that some of us may have (at least I haven`t seen them). Here are the questions, posed in their relevant background.

[In a communal tinderbox (Vadodara), the city council took a decision to remove structures from govt. property to broaden roads. This decision had the support of the BJP and the four largest of such structures are temples. These temples are yet to be removed. The BJP violently opposed a similar move in the city council of nearby Rajkot (http://in.news.yahoo.com/060424/48/63rh6.html).]

Question 1: Why did the BJP support the measure in Vadodara but not in Rajkot?

[Before the dargah issue, three temples were relocated. The concerned private parties came to a negotiated settlement with the city government. Negotiations with the concerned private party representing the interest of the dargah were also carried out.]

Question 2: Did negotiations fail? If so, then why did they fail, i.e. what were the sticking points of the parties? Were the parties aware that negotiations failed?

Question 3: What was the strategy of the govt. in case negotiations failed? Was such a strategy formulated and agreed upon in the council? If not, why not? If yes, then was the strategy publicly known?

[The council with police protection went in to demolish the structure. Crowds gathered, stoning started, police resorted to `lathi charge`, `tear gas` and firing. Two (?) died.]

Question 4: Was such a crowd mobilization anticipated? If not, why not? (Apparently the chief councillor was threatened over phone before the event) If yes, then why were the police not out in force and the entire area cordoned off through sensibly placed pickets, why didn`t the authorities impose Section 144?

[Rioting continued for two days and yesterday a motorist was set on fire. The great Home Minister, Mr Patil is all Mr. Correct now demanding that the state govt. take appropriate action, rushing in the CRPF the army etc. Even Modi and Advani are making the right noises!]

Question 5: Is intelligence gathering so bad that Patil had no inkling about the potential problem in Vadodara?

Question 5: Do these political jokers think we are fools?

Question 6: When will these half-brained lumpens learn that they cannot control communalism even if they can induce a managed riot?

Re: # 25 salim

that`s all I am saying... I mean - we all know that our politicians are no good, corrupt and even murderers [ ironically, we are the ones who put them on the chair, but that`s another topic]... so when sh!t happens , which often does, we should know how to counter it properly...

All that we had to do was file court case - get compensation from gov`t and build a even bigger dargah somewhere else - or open an orphanage, a hospital, school - save lives, educate children - god knows we have enough dargahs and temples already... one is gone - so what?....Instead we riot... now who gained from this?... not the public, not the people who died needlessly... Only person who is laughing all the way to vote bank is - Modi...

People of India have to take control... they have to wisen up... this kind of behavior is not going to help...

And if you notice - it`s always the hinuds and muslims who riot ... I ahve never heard of christians, sikhs, jains rioting for anything... and if you notice - these communities have always done well, financially, educationally - while most of poor and backward people in India are either hinuds or muslims....

That shows - doesn`t it?....

They razed a temple across the lane where I live.


They had an illegal temple on Malabar Hill? I find that hard to believe..


Did Feroz Khan comment on the Varanasi blasts?


He did..he talked about the great benarasi saris he had bought over the years..

oh wait...that was you..

There`s a whole sense of deja vu here...Muslims rioted because a dargah was demolished..cops shot back..WTF is wrong with that..the cops should have done a lot more shooting when the chaddis were running riot in 2002..

Re: # 27

Good questions GT. FV, is there anyway of knowing the answers? Or do we have to wait 2 years after some commission is set up to come out with the facts (sic).

Re: # 28 by mohar:

``Only person who is laughing all the way to vote bank is - Modi...``

Sorry, but Sonia Gandhi is laughing too. In fact, quite a few parties are laughing. You think Sitaram Yechury of the CPM had no idea about the council resolution? FV is right, the worst of the lot are the S. Azmis.

I say we send the Paki Punju Rangers to Gujarat (the other one!) - they will kill everyone - Hindus, Muslims, guilty, innocent - anyone who doesn`t look like a dagga or khota.

#25 by Salim_Chauhan on May 3, 2006 2:23pm PT


Historic places and old relics should be preserved for cultural enrichment.


FV disagrees with you..She thinks it`s ok for the taliban to destroy the buddhas because there are no buddhists in afghanistan..

The question about demolishing dargah is appropriate. I dont know what caused local municipality to remove it even though it was discussed about moving it somewhere else. But there is no connection between Modi and the riots. Atleast not so far. There is no need to extrapolate at this moment. The author seems to be waiting for anything or something to happen in Gujarat and quickly bring out modi bashing. There are people who are waiting to compare hindus to nazis. Its wrong (to put it mildly) to associate all gujarati hindus with this killings.

May 1st: Police clashed with local muslims and two were killed.
May 2nd: The number of people killed after clashes with local Muslims in the city of Baroda has risen to three. Crowd was involved in rioting and vehicles buring.
May 3rd: Mohammed Rafiq Vora was burned to death in his car.

How is that Hindus are accused to killing Vora. Maybe the rioters killed him by mistake.

The rumor spread by FV causes more damage ``According to some reports, the BJP leaders wanted the “mini-Babri Masjid” completely destroyed.`` Again, there is no proof of this.
Local Police tried to control rioting on first day. Curfew was set next day. military flag marched on third day.

If you are stupid not to understand Advanis accusation about minorityism by Congress then no explaining will suffice you. Government is not supposed to protect only minority it is suppose to protect all and not just muslims. Government had responsibility to protect 59 hindus in Godhra, 40 hindus in Akshardham, 1000 muslims of gujarat and Mohmaad Rafiq Vora.

If FV is hell bent on accusing Modi then she shoud explain how will this riots help him.

P.S.:
I was expecting breaking news on Chowk when 35 hindus were massacred in Kashmir.

Bibiji,

40 or so innocent massacred in Jammu ..and you do not have a word, or are there few? As usual I have not read your article. we can smell you guys from long distance. because of you guys common abdul is hurt. have you opened a school in muslim mohalla? i had suggested last time to run some english tuitions for poor muslim kids. In JEE one has to have passing marks in English. Stop your divisive bullshitting. I am assuming there must be a lot of it in this article, if one goes by the title.

pandits were either asking for it or they left of their own accord...

This is funny people are asking FV to write abt the kashmir situation...Why dont they write about it. Lets see their side of the story. let us see who writes first... why rely on FV to write abt every thing, why not you?

Re: # 34
[I was expecting breaking news on Chowk when 35 hindus were massacred in Kashmir.]

...now that you have pointed out the kashmir massacre, you might see it posted with a few crocodile tears for the dead indians... whereas, salim chauhan is allowed free reins to continue to bad mouth pakistanis and punjabees without a let, on an article where they are nowhere to be seen...farzana versey was brought to chowk for a certain agenda...she has been doing an exceptional job with the help of salim chauhan and other right wingers from both countries...what a shame, the place that was created for bringing the two sides together has succeeded in widening the chasm...

Re: # 37
...perhaps you are unaware that FV is the editor in chief of chowk.com which caters to indians, pakistanis and bangladeshis...atleast in principle...if she can not be relied upon to write about a serious happening in the area of chowk interest then who...you want to see their side who better than an indian, which she was till last news came in...what a moron!

Re: # 37 by HP,

``Why dont they write about it``

How can you forget so fast? Remember, Indians are fine with the status quo. Indians are fine with some unwashed folks dying here and there. As long as Pakistan`s IT exports do not exceed India`s, Indians are fine. Indians are doing great in foreign policy, domestic policy, you name it policy. And yes, if there is anything wrong it is because of these jihadis and their queen - FV. Even then, Indians can do nothing about it......Pathetic.

I dont expect any article from FV about Kashmiri Hindus. I already know what she feels about them. I was looking for a breaking news that is regularly posted by Chowk-Staff.

delhiwala, if you dont know about riots between hindus and muslims prior to godhra then either you are ignorant or blind. Riots have been occuring in Ahmedabad for last 60+ years. It is not a new phenomena or something manufactured by BJP. There are areas where a hindu mother would never want her child going even during the day.

#41 samosa is very right.. i remember as a child back in mid-sixties army flag-marching thru old city (i think its called Bhadra) and watching it from a relatives window.

RE#38 ``exceptional job with the help of salim chauhan and other right wingers from both countries...``

SALIM BHAI,
I continue to admire your neutrality..I am 100% opposed to Hindu rashtra and I am in favor of bulldozing all freaking temples that r in the middle of the road. You accused me of some thing ( i was disappointed), but look here :-) u r accused of being right winger by jehadi terrorists! ......

And the jehadi terrorist doesn`t even have the minimum honesty/decency to say dead Hindus, he hides behind the description ``dead Indians``.

but having said that .......

My dear Salim Bhai, you have strongly condemned Muslim terrorism/ Paki terrorism vehemently, but I am afraid the same can not be said about this author or this web site.

PAKIS DROOL ALL OVER THIS PLACE discussing issues that undermine Indian nationalism
Hindu-Muslim strife, caste violence, etc, etc. But grave Paki issues are pushed under the carpet......

Hindu-Muslim strife is as much painful to Indian nationalists as Shia-Sunni conflict may be to PAKIs.


I WILL BE IMPRESSED WITH THE NEUTRALITY AND OPEN MINDEDNES of this web site if I see ARTICLES UNDER the following headings:

1. Is Pakistan a Sunni Islamic State- fears of the Shia Muslims in Pakistan


2. Lashkar-e-Toiba and its sponsorship from Pakistan as of May 2006- the continuing PUNJABI SUNNI TERRORISM in Kashmir



3. Islamic terrorism- the fears and sufferings of Thai budhists, Paris Christians, and the bad bad Indian Hindoos


4. Salafi Vs Barelvi- the emerging sectarian scenario in Pakistan


5.Balochi tears in London- tears for freedom .......can they be supressed indefinitely?


6.Punjabi Domination in Contemporary Pakistan- bitterness of the Sindhis, Muhajirs, Balochs, and the Pashtoons


7.Can Hindus in Pakistan squeak? - bloody tears of a brutalized minority


Respectfully Yours,

``The ‘modern look’ should start with the state’s chief minister, who has been milking communalism for all it is worth.

And the police. Why did they open fire? ``


-- I can`t freakin` believe FV doesn`t know the answer to this. It`s because the rioting muslim mob was a grave threat to public order.

[On what grounds did L. K. Advani state, “The Congress party is dividing the nation by continuously harping on the minority protection in the same way that the British rulers did for their own ulterior motives”? Does he not realise that the basics of a democracy are to protect all its citizens?]

Did the State protect the 35 Hindus killed in Kashmir just a few days ago?

Or don`t Hindus count as human beings?

Where are all those Muslims expressing outrage such as HP, Urstruly, Mullah321, etc., who cry buckets when a single Muslim is killed in India? Are Hindus to be treated as they were in the 17th century by thugs called sultans?

Of course, no comments from the likes of Farzana Versey, HP, and other Mullahs and the psec Islamic fundamentalist appeasers like Rakesh Mani

http://www.hindustantimes.com/2006/Apr/21/5967_1680176,001600060001.htm

Hindu temple demolished in Malaysia
Press Trust of India

Kuala Lumpur, April 21, 2006

Malaysian authorities have demolished a century-old Hindu temple in Kuala Lumpur, bulldozing the building as devotees cried and begged them to stop.

``The Malaimel Sri Selva Kaliamman Temple was reduced to rubble after Kuala Lumpur`s city hall sent in bulldozers,`` an eyewitness said.

In a complaint to police the temple`s vice president, Subramaniam Ragappan, said about 300 devotees were praying on Tuesday when the machines arrived, accompanied by police and city hall officials.

``We were forced to stop our prayers and rituals halfway as they proceeded to tear down the temple,`` Subramaniam said.

A copy of a letter from city hall to a local lawmaker, who had asked for the temple to be left intact, said the demolition was going ahead to make way for a building project.

City hall officials were not immediately available for comment.

Subramaniam admitted that the city hall had tried in 2001 and again in 2004 to tear down the building, which was on government land, but had been dissuaded by politicians on each attempt.

``Everybody was crying and saying how could the government do this, but they still broke the temple,`` he said.

``For 100 years we prayed there. How could they come to remove the temple?`` he said, adding that they were given just one day`s notice of the demolition.

From --
Hindustan Times

The religion of peace is showing some peace to the Buddhists as well. How dare those Buddhists work slow. Don`t you know that infidel structures have to be removed as soon as possible. This is from a nation that is considered a liberal Muslim nation and as a role model for other Muslim nations.

http://www.malaysianbar.org.my/content/view/2202/2/

Council demolishes illegal statue and temple building

Friday, 06 January 2006, 11:00
©The Sun (Used by permission)

THE Jasin Reclining Buddha statue, purportedly second largest in the country was demolished on Wednesday, along with a Siamese Temple next to it, the Chinese Press reported yesterday.

A 300-man demolition squad comprising personnel from the police, General Operations Force, fire and rescue department, water board, Tenaga Nasional, Jasin district council and Public Works Department officials took five hours to pull down the temple and levelled the 20m-long statue located inside an orchard.

The dawn operation, in which the squad deployed four bulldozers and backhoes and 20 lorries, surprised the villagers of Batu 14 Merlimau and angered the orchard owner, Lee Sang, who claimed he was not informed of the demolition.

The Jasin Municipal Council had earlier given the owner until Dec 29 to destroy the statue and temple which was built without approval.

Lee agreed to demolish the statue in a bid to save the temple and hired an Indonesian worker for the job when no locals wanted to undertake it for fear of desecrating the statue.

However, the council deemed Lee`s helper, working with a jack-hammer, too slow.

Lee said some officials had been monitoring the demolition work carried out by his worker and complained that it was too slow.

However, the operation on Wednesday caught him by surprise.

He said he was unable to remove figurines of Buddha and personal belongings from the temple as the authorities cordoned off the orchard during the operation.

No members of the press were allowed access to the site.

Lee, who became a Buddhist in 1989, bought the orchard to fulfil a vow he made while he was sick about 15 years ago. His vow was to build a temple if he recovers from his illness.

The temple, which is home to three monks, was built some years ago.

However, the reclining Buddha statute was completed only recently.

Lee said he was heart-broken to see the statute demolished as it was built with contributions from fellow devotees.

News that the statue was to be destroyed drew a stream of visitors and the devout form far and near last month.

Meanwhile, the council said it had sent out demolition notices to Lee prior to taking action.

Malacca housing, local government and environment committee chairman, Datuk Wira Poh Ah Tiam said enforcement

Re: # 45
>>>>>Did the State protect the 35 Hindus killed in Kashmir just a few days ago?<<<<,

Harimau,
these 35 timid Hindus were unarmed and probably pleaded for their lives like lambs in a butcher shop

.... unlike the ``peaceful, innocent, tolerant`` Guj muslims for whom FV is whipping up tribal frenzy


and this goes around as secularism.....................

Re: # 45 by Harimau

``Did the State protect the 35 Hindus killed in Kashmir just a few days ago?``

No the State did not. But Sir, isn`t (wasn`t) Advani a very important component of what we call a State? What has (did) he done (do)? Didn`t Hindus die in bulk in Kashmir when he was the Home Minister? Please read Praveen Swami`s article in the Hindu (yesterday). Yes, Praveen is a good old Tamil Brahmin so you can read him.

``Or don`t Hindus count as human beings?``

No, common Hindu folks do not count. Just like the common Muslim folks do not count. How can you even ask such a trivial question?

``Where are all those Muslims expressing outrage such as HP, Urstruly, Mullah321, etc., who cry buckets when a single Muslim is killed in India? Are Hindus to be treated as they were in the 17th century by thugs called sultans?``

Sir, do we not know that all Muslims, especially Pakistani Muslims, are thugs and butchers? Why do we even ask these guys - you forgot FV (a wannabe Pakistani) - for support or sympathy? Why can`t we protect our own? Now do not tell me that Sudarshan was not given a chance. If he failed to get his party, the BJP, to do what he wanted them to do then Sir he is a bad politician. A nincompoop actually. He doesn`t deserve to be the head of the RSS. I simply do not understand why intelligent and honest people like you cannot throw him out of his position. I am sure the RSS cadre are not nincompoops....so I fail to understand why you cannot get rid of your nincompoop leadership.

As HP said in another board:

It is summer in India(Kashmir)...It is also fun time there...
Enjoy while it lasts...

Rgds,

Ferzana, how did you find out the name of the guy who was burnt in his car? I scanned several reports, and thery are very sketchy. Some even say a car was burnt and a man was thought to be burnt in it. Indian news media is notorious for not releasing religion of victims, so i am not too surprised about their coverage, so it must be your special sources.

This dargah was kinda expected to cause maximum trouble according to this yahoo article

http://in.news.yahoo.com/060501/48/63xbq.html

Salimbhai (since you also referred to me as Bhai):

Sorry I could not respond to you in the earlier thread. You had asked me about the Solapur riots. Here is the link. Pardon the long link since I don`t know how to do Hyperlinking on Chowk. I will give you the benefit of doubt and apologize if I offended you by calling you an Islamic fundamentalism appeaser.

Here is the link to the Solapur riots

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/2321749.stm

Around a similar timeframe, Miss World was to happen in Nigeria and there was protests from Islamists against holding it. A journalist jokingly remarked that if Mohammed was around he would be happy since he would get his choice of beautiful. Guess what Muslims attack Christians and hundreds killed.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/2501893.stm

wtf should FV worry about demolition of a temple in malaysia? if you care, then hold a protest or something in front of malaysian embassy.

some of these demolitions are always full of political opportunism and indians need to be cognizant of it, thats what seems to her message in this article. this seems to be all staged, and IMO many parties gain from it, the muslim politicians, the BJP as well as the center govt.

Re: # 53 by jang on May 3, 2006 8:09pm PT
``wtf should FV worry about demolition of a temple in malaysia? if you care, then hold a protest or something in front of malaysian embassy.``

If Farzana and other Islamists can give a f**k and worry about Palestinian Muslims and what the ``slimy, evil`` Jews are doing to them and because of that we don`t have friendly and diplomatic relations with Israel for almost four decades then I certainly expect them to give a f**k about Malaysian Hindus as well when they are oppressed by Muslims. Israel never had any hostile relationship with India or sponsored terrorism against Indians or any such activity. It is because of the Muslim appeasement that we were not friendly with them for so many years.

Farzana ji

You need to check your facts before you write anything. VMC has demolished many temples too. Actually demolition started with four temples on April 3. Actually, there are more temples demolished then dargaahs and NO RIOTS ENSUED at that time.
Well legality of the structure is another issue. So, please refrain from obfuscating the issue. You know who started riots.

Regards

Re: # 19

I love Nagpur, shopping in Itwari, empress mills, gadde godam, i love that place.
WTF are u talking about weather in nagpur, it is perfect.

I love Kamtee and nagpur.

Re: # 19

I love Nagpur, shopping in Itwari, empress mills, gadde godam, i love that place.
WTF are u talking about weather in nagpur, it is perfect.

I love Kamtee and nagpur.

Re: # 19

I love Nagpur, shopping in Itwari, empress mills, gadde godam, i love that place.
WTF are u talking about weather in nagpur, it is perfect.

I love Kamtee and nagpur.

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I do not have special access to names and I am not responsible for ‘rumours’. It is all there in the media, both print and electronic. I am copying two reports in full because some people here think I have probably imagined this case…

‘The police asked us to go to Pakistan’
Vadodara residents relive 2002 nightmare

TIMES NEWS NETWORK

Vadodara: Residents of the Ajwa Road area in Vadodara relived the nightmare of 2002 on Tuesday night as they were left to the mercy of two groups pelting stones at each other for nearly two hours.

Panic reached its pinnacle when a man was burnt alive by a mob. In desperation, many of them started sending out SMSes for help. “We tried calling the police for nearly two hours, but they only told us to go to Pakistan for help,’’ says Zubair Goplani, an activist and neighbour of the boy who was lynched. “Passing police vehicles refused to stop. By the time DCP Siddharth Khatri came, it was too late.’’

Retired deputy superintendent of police M I Pathan, who also stays in the area, said that he had never imagined that something like this could have taken place in his society. “I can say that the police has failed. I served the department for 35 years, but never saw anything like this. I have a licenced firearm, but it was of no use in this situation,’’ said the former policeman.

Mehmood Abdulgani Vohra, brother of the man who was burnt alive, claimed that a couple of police vehicles did pass from the area, but did little. “They cracked down on the mob only after my brother died,’’ Mehmood said.

Strict action to be taken against rioters: Modi

TIMES NEWS NETWORK

[ Wednesday, May 03, 2006 01:58:02 pmPTI ]
AHMEDABAD: Warning of strict action against those indulging in violence in Vadodara, Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi on Wednesday appealed to people in the city to maintain peace.

``Some people with vested interests are unhappy with the manner in which the state was progressing and maintaining peace,`` Modi said.

Law enforcement agencies would take necessary steps to restore peace and normalcy at the earliest, he said in a statement.

Modi, presently in south Gujarat, is expected to visit the Vadodara on Wednesday afternoon to take stock of the situation.

Gujarat DGP P C Pande, state Home Minister Amit Shah and three senior IPS officers from Ahmedabad are already in Vadodara.

Six persons have been killed and over 60 injured in violence that broke out after a 200-year-old dargah was demolished in the city on Monday.


Please note Modi’s comment. If this is his idea of progress and peace, then one need not say more.

Thank you for your comments. Perhaps, now many of you would care to read the article? No? Okay, here is a rapid reader and the answers to some queries posed are very clear in the following quotes from the article itself…

Every illegal religious shrine ought to be demolished.

Having said this, I wish to know how a 200-year-old dargah qualifies as being ‘illegal’.

A 32-year-old man was burnt alive by a crowd of 1,500, two days after the demolition.

The others dead and injured are both Hindu and Muslim.

Is this a ‘modern look’?

Gujarat is becoming an experimental lab for proponents of the Hindu Rashtra.

Surely, we cannot bring in history on every occasion and most certainly not to justify the acts of elected leaders in a democracy.

The Vishwa Hindu Parishad has claimed that temples also get routinely demolished

I know it. I have been witness to one such incident over two years ago.

As a citizen, and a true Mumbaiite, I felt good that we were getting rid of structures that come up and impede normal life. I wanted this to happen to Muslim shrines (and they too were on the list) as well

I wish there was a provision to excommunicate such over-enthusiastic believers.

So, why am I protesting against the dargah demolition now? Because it is not a religious issue; it is a political one.

And the Muslim community and the caretakers were willing to let the authorities take away the adjoining ground area (it really is a small place). Why was that not considered?

The community in Gujarat has still not recovered from the 2002 carnage. The cases are still pending. How do such incidents help in the healing process?

Having realised that rath yatras are not making much of a dent and Varanasi was not willing to become a scapegoat, the saffron brigade is sticking to Gujarat.

Here we had two examples of ‘modern look’ -- the priests in Varanasi, and much as I dislike the Shahi Imam of Jama Masjid his attitude at the time asking the community to maintain peace was certainly commendable.

Where were the moderate Muslim voices?

But these Muslims will remain silent because it is not a big issue. Instead, we will have some bearded fellows brought in

So, wake up, and ask why there were eight rounds fired and 78 tear gas shells thrown into the crowds. Where did the crowds come from? If discussions had already taken place, then why did such a situation arise at all?

Ask. If you don’t want the establishment to run rough-shod over people’s right to know.

- - -

For the rest, South Asia is not just India, Pakistan, Bangladesh; we also have Nepal and Sri Lanka…so I ought to be commenting about everything that happens there too. But who would be interested? There is no ‘Muslim angle’ there…

Re. the massacre in J&K, it has already been decided what I feel; not only that, it has been stated clearly that even if I did comment, it would be ‘crocodile tears’.

I just wish to emphasise here that it is a pity that people here cannot differentiate between the acts of terrorists and the establishment. I have been saying this for years now.

However, should anyone wish to write about these subjects, they may do so.

Ref GT #49

[Please read Praveen Swami`s article in the Hindu (yesterday). Yes, Praveen is a good old Tamil Brahmin so you can read him.]

I read ``The Anti-Hindu`` only for its list of ``engagements`` to see if there are any concerts in Chennai that I would want to go to.

While the New Indian Express wrote a news item on how Dayanidhi (literally, ``Fund of Compassion``) Maran, the grand-nephew of DMK Supremo Karunanidhi (another ``Fund of Compassion``) attempted to blackmail Ratan Tata into handing over 33% of their Direct-to-Home satellite TV venture, it took the Anti-Hindu a couple of days to print something about it. So the Anti-Hindu is not the place if you want news. Considering that they have pimped one of the girls in the family to Dayanidhi Maran, you cannot expect anything different from them.

As to TamBrahms, they are the most guilt-ridden folks on earth so I refuse to read their prattles. If I want to read a TamBrahm, I would read ``Cho`` Ramaswamy. Or Gurumurthy.

#49 by GT on May 3, 2006 7:58pm PT


forgot FV (a wannabe Pakistani)


wannabe? More like always-has-been..

I would seriously like you to see the issue in a political light. I completely agree that mob mentality is uncivilised (#23). But, protest movements have always existed and they need to be channelised in a positive manner.

It has already been stated in this article that Gujarat is a sensitive issue; someone spoke about how Hindus have lived with Muslims…does that not mean that Muslims have also lived with Hindus?

Filing a court case is a way out, but when it takes years for other serious issues to get a fair judgment or any judgment at all), do you think it would work here?
- - -
#34:

[But there is no connection between Modi and the riots. Atleast not so far. There is no need to extrapolate at this moment. The author seems to be waiting for anything or something to happen in Gujarat and quickly bring out modi bashing. There are people who are waiting to compare hindus to nazis. Its wrong (to put it mildly) to associate all gujarati hindus with this killings.]

Modi is the CM; he knows what goes on; the police chief and he are talking the same language – modern look/progress. One does not need any occasion to bring out Modi-bashing – he is a tainted character. Who has ever compared Hindus to Nazis? Who has even mentioned Hindus or Gujarati Hindus in this article?
The figures etc are provided in the reports I have posted.

[How is that Hindus are accused to killing Vora. Maybe the rioters killed him by mistake.]

Where did I say Hindus killed him? And what do you mean “by mistake”? Are you implying that Muslims were the only ones on a rampage and they mistook him for a Hindu? Again, plz refer to the report.

And where have I said the government has to protect only minorities?

Stop imagining things to suit your world-view.
- - -
#44:

[“And the police. Why did they open fire? ``
-- I can`t freakin` believe FV doesn`t know the answer to this. It`s because the rioting muslim mob was a grave threat to public order.]

How do you know that only Muslims constituted that mob? As I said, if the police commissioner knew it was a communally sensitive issue, why were precautions not taken? As for public order, the cops have not managed to bring that about…they reached late, the forces were inadequate and we are told there were no lights in that particular police station.
- - -
#54:

[If Farzana and other Islamists can give a f**k and worry about Palestinian Muslims and what the ``slimy, evil`` Jews are doing to them and because of that we don`t have friendly and diplomatic relations with Israel for almost four decades then I certainly expect them to give a f**k about Malaysian Hindus as well when they are oppressed by Muslims. Israel never had any hostile relationship with India or sponsored terrorism against Indians or any such activity. It is because of the Muslim appeasement that we were not friendly with them for so many years.]

Everytime I have written about IMs, I am told about what happens in Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. I am not a spokesperson for these countries and they openly state they are Islamic nations. I have said this time and again: If India wishes to become a Hindu nation, change the constitution and then you can talk to me the way you do now. Until such time, you just have to lump it that I am an Indian entitled to my personal views and have every right to express them WITHOUT anyone telling me that this is being tolerated because of your magnanimity.

Most certainly, should anyone feel strongly, they may write/comment about it in a manner they deem fit.

But, any Islamic issue invariably ends up having some consequences for the IMs. WE have to listen to taunts, even when you do not have IMs involved in any international terrorist movements. Why?

You throw the problems of other Islamic nations in our faces and then expect us not to respond? The Palestinian issue is of concern in large parts of the world and not only to Indian Muslims. And they worry about Palestine, not about Palestinian Muslims. No one has stopped India from having friendly relations with Israel, but it is international policy to keep a distance from aggressor nations. We were not exactly romping around with South Africa during the days of apartheid.

Now that we are friendly with Israel, am I to assume that Muslim appeasement has stopped? And what exactly does India gain by cozying up to Israel?

Re. The temple demolition in Malaysia, why have Indian Hindus been largely silent? Why do they not speak up? Why has there not been much information in the mainstream media about it? Do Muslims own the world media? Why are the concerned people on this board not writing/commenting/opining in their own capacity instead of merely indulging in a ‘yours is worse than mine’ game?

#49+various by GT:

I am surprised and only hope you are being tongue-in-cheek. Or do you believe any citizen of India who belongs to a certain group cannot ask questions? You call me “a wannabe Pakistani``, and some Pakistanis here have been accusing me of encouraging anti-Pak/Islam articles.

Just does not make sense.

e.g….

[...now that you have pointed out the kashmir massacre, you might see it posted with a few crocodile tears for the dead indians... whereas, salim chauhan is allowed free reins to continue to bad mouth pakistanis and punjabees without a let, on an article where they are nowhere to be seen...farzana versey was brought to chowk for a certain agenda...she has been doing an exceptional job with the help of salim chauhan and other right wingers from both countries...what a shame, the place that was created for bringing the two sides together has succeeded in widening the chasm...]

This has been written by a Pakistani who has never shown much concern for Indians before.

I am responding to this post because such sentiments are being expressed for a while now.

1. No one can ‘bring’ me in for any agenda, although I am aware that some of these interactors have their own agendas.
2. Articles questioning the Pakistani establishment (just as articles questioning the Indian establishment) are a positive sign. That they come (uninvited, of their own free will) from those living in these countries or professing the respective nationalities reveals a healthy disregard for status-quoism.
3. The fact that someone is ruing the badmouthing of one community just shows a fissured mentality.
4. Yes, of course, before I came in, people from both countries were so in love with each other, right? There were all those ‘We are one’ articles, right? There was no chasm and an accord between the two nations was about to be signed, when I landed up in Agra and spoiled the game, right? And I have never faced any criticism due to my Indo-Pak writings, right?

I think this has been a tremendous leap for me – from being a ‘Paki/Islamist” to a “Hindu rightwing supporter”.

#54 i think you are wrong on this. indias pro-palistenian stance had little to do with muslim apeasement. it was pure bania thing about oil, and labor markets in the gulf and non-alignment-soviet alignment.

Time to slice that goddam Unindian state Gujrat (the rathole of Hindutva rats) from the rest of the Indian territory and push it into the Indian Ocean --

the Federal army should arrest that whole creepy cabinet of criminals and its miscreant modi -- the blot on the chief ministership -- for disturbing Indian peace, order and tranquility -- and lock them up -- instead of arresting rioters on the street.....

these horrible Gujrati bastards specialize in burning people alive....!

#63 by FarzanaVersey on May 4, 2006 6:01am PT


And what exactly does India gain by cozying up to Israel?



Weapons..trade..friendship with a democratic country where the people have a positive view of India..Of course, these are things important to India, so I wouldn`t expect an Islamist like you to care about them..


I am an Indian entitled to my personal views and have every right to express them WITHOUT anyone telling me


So you have a right to express your Islamist leaning, terrorist supporting views but other people don`t have the right to call you on it? Do you realize how ridiculous you sound?

#66 nasah imagine...

you are driving on a road from dilli to jaipur
there is a massive traffic jam due to a bottlenck 300 year old dargah
due to continual bitching (for progress) from nris like you, kataria govt (or vasundhara raje) gets a court order to demolish the dargah
the demolishion folks make sure to demolish a few temples on the road so as to ensure that they dont get blamed for being communal
local VHP and the muslim goondas make a deal that this is a good fight to do
BJP advani and Yechuri are lickign their chops, mulayam is most happy, and patil does his homework after reading intel reports and gives a wink-nod for a ``controlled`` riot

so the bottomline is its you who is to blame, and dilli-agra stretch is not tel aviv ..its too far from the ocean

#67 also israel has a sizable number of indian jews.. they even staged a ghati play festival a while back. so consular relations are important. also, every israely tech company has bussiness ties to india, and they have the best tech in water-conservation, a subject of prime importance to water-parched india. all the other baddus in the area dont really care for water as much, they just use TP or stone ;-)

Re: # 67
Arjun
FV has never said that people shouldn`t call her up for anything she writes. She is defending her stance and she has a perfect right to do that.
Now to differentiate the killings of Hindus in Kashmir with what happens in Gujarat is very simple.

In one case, and this is entirely my opinion, the killings were carried out by foreign militants trained in Pakistan or Afghanistan or in a host of other countries with Jihadist sympathies. It was our government`s duty to protect them, and to hunt down and kill each one of those dirty little cowardly rats.


In the second case in Gujarat the killings were done by our own citizens. The government failed to do anything either despite knowing that some issues could arise. We can blame the Muslims of that area if we want. But if a complete novice like me can assume that these demolitions would cause problems why couldn`t seasoned politicians and police see that problems could occur in a communally sensitive area. Shouldn`t greater care have been taken to ensure that this would not happen.

In the first case we as citizens of India should be asking questions of the government as to why the Hindu villagers were killed.
In the second case other than asking the government we should do some introspection as to why we are still allowing ourselves to be manipulated the way we are. Why do we kill our own people?

#69 Ref: Bene-Israel
Jango,

Came across this film sometime ago about the Indian Jewish experience in Israel and the racial tension between the various communities of Israel.

http://www.newenglandfilm.com/news/archives/05march/turnleft.htm

Also Miss Asia-Israel is one Ms Datoakar!
http://in.news.yahoo.com/060326/139/635zz.html

It would be sad if Indian`s have to sever their historical links to the bene-Israel under pressure from Indian Islamists.

Re: # 70 sw
[....killings were carried out by foreign militants trained in Pakistan or Afghanistan ...]

The local muslims of kashmir also participated in killing and cleansing of pundits... local mosques loudspeakers were used for hate propaganda...

Re: # 70
> ..Why do we kill our own people? ..

They never were one of us. The moment you convert - you being part of a different world,
a different species, a different thinking pattern. If you have not got this - how old are you ?

#70 so, the police action should be viewed positively..a timely action by them prolly avoided a larger disturbance. i am sure ferzana and rest of us are grateful for that.

yeah bongy..i had some nice benes in my class and school..they tought me how to make a hole in an egg and suck out the yolk. one was pretty too ;-) .. i know at least one of them did immigrate to israel and was shit-scared of the military duty.

#52 kedarnathji {``Salimbhai (since you also referred to me as Bhai):

... I will give you the benefit of doubt and apologize if I offended you by calling you an Islamic fundamentalism appeaser....
Here is the link to the Solapur riots ...
...Around a similar timeframe, Miss World was to happen in Nigeria and there was protests from Islamists against holding it. ``}

Kedarnathji Bhai,
Thank you for the link about the Solapur riots. I was not aware of the death and destruction there. As Mohar Bhai has pointed out, fanatics of all viewpoints use books, cartoons, statements, and even beauty contests as excuses to perform the ugliest acts including murder, arson, rape, and suicide bombings. Their mission is to cause as much havoc and destruction as possible so that normal life and order can break down and they can rule over what is left.

I don`t think that we need to cater to this anarchic segment of any society and their quick arrest, trial, conviction, and elimination is probably the best thing for the rest of society. No, my friend, I hope it`s obvious that I detest Islamic fundamentalism as much as I am against Hindutva types, Catholic Inquisitors, firebrand Zionist zealots, Sunni Wahabbi terrorists like Al-Kayda, LeT, Tally Ban, or born-again, thunder clapping evangelists led on by electronic ayatollahs of the Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell type. Thank you for your understanding.

# 49
GT, we know that state cannot protect all indians. There are killings in state of kashmir and death in gujarat of many innocent people. We protest the hypocrisy of ilk of people like FV who cannot stop blaming Modi for any innocent muslim being killed without any proof and spreading rumors of hindu rastra while completely forgetting that innocent hindus are killed mercilessly in india.
People like FV and Teesta are nothing but psuedo secular and probably could be bigots.

# 51
jang, one needs to take indian media reports with pinch of salt. The most notorious would be of Modi saying about Newtons third law which he never uttered but Times of India decided to publish it and were made to apologize afterwards.

# 65
jang, Pro palestian stance for many of us hindus is because of the hardship faced by palestain. It is a occupied country and faces lot of troubles that are similar to the hardships faced by indian under british rule.

# 66
hasan, the idea of mass punishments makes you no different from israeli or the killers of godhra and gujarat riots. justice needs to be served and in timely fashion then only the rioters will stop.

After successfully demoliting 4 temples suddenly Baroda Police and Baroda Municipality are being accused of not showing enough caution and preparing themselves inadequately. FV accuses the police commisoner of making political statement and not doing his job. FV should know that the demolition drive had started as per court order of removal of religious structure from APRIL 3rd and NOT MAY 1ST.
I think India needs completely different set of rules and law for Muslims not just Muslim personal law. Muslims should have their own constitution, their own courts, their own police, their own streets and their own demolition drive.
I tend to agree now with 14 points put forward by Jinnah.

FV posts couple of questions at the end of the article. Why police fired tear gas and eight round of ammunation. Its very easy to answer. Actually her second question answers her first question. Her second question is where did the crowd came from. Now when this is answered then probably we would have less riot and less killings. This question is very similar to how muslims gathered at godhra station on 27th Feb.

Re: # 62
arjun...
you are welcome to your farzanas and salims chauhans...they are not pakistanis and will never be one...even if they get the green passport...fyi 20,000 palestinians also hold pakistani passport and that does not make them pakistani...

Re: # 77
> I tend to agree now with 14 points put forward by Jinnah. ....
One more guy has begun to see the light now !

Someone more famous then me said: ``Hindus and Muslims are two different nations``. My
only correction to this would be: ``Muslims and Non-Muslims are two different nations``.

These two species MUST reside separately... there is NOTHING in common between them.

The free world must stop being politically correct and start separating the two species. India
is doing her part - starting with Gujarat :)

....just a lot of venom spewed rants blaming all crimes against humanity on Modi and those who vote for him. Crying a bucket load of tears for one jihadi who was burnt alive, while maintaining a complete silence over 35 poor Kashmiri hindu villagers who were massacred by those lovely freedom fighters. Serves them right - after all the bloody hindus refusing to back the secular and noble and just cause of Kashmir freedom struggle...

........aur inse umeed bhi kya ki ja sakti hain.......

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Re: # 64
farzana..
you are neither a islamist nor a muslim..you are an aga khani...since your arrival you have encouraged articles that create hatred...and no indians and pakistanis were never in love with each other before your arrival but they didnt hate so much as well...

you have remained silent about kashmir massacre and diverting the attention by bringing in nepal and other countries whose representation on chowk is nil...

you have remained silent with salim chauhan spewing hate against pakistanis and punjabis on all articles and never deleted them for being irrelevent...

you have tried to hide your incometence by whining and twisting facts...

i expect that now that i have brought these charges, you will use the authority vested in you by either:

1. filtering my post, which you have done regularly
2. banning me for two days for not following chowk guidelines
3. ban me permanently

...so go ahead...

abey gujjey, tu wapas aya?

abey gujjey, tu wapas aya?

Talking against Pakistanis and Punjabis should not be cause of deleting anyone. But hate speech should be. If “punjoos” could be a cause of deletion then use of “Paki” should be too.

It has been shown that Salim can be handled with ease. Check out the other board he now claims that he is an Indian.
Why Aren’t Muslim Women Converting to Christianity?
#481 by Salim_Chauhan

``Consider me an Indian from now on. ``

Personal attacks on writers/authors should be a cause for banning or at least being filtered out.
Aghakhani`s are as muslims as any sunni can be. Why should anyone’s religion be a subject of discussion here?

Those who are trying to compare killings of Hindus in Kashmir and those of Muslims in Gujarat forget a basic difference: Hindus are killed in Kashmir despite the govt`s efforts to protect them; the general perception is that Muslims are killed in Gujarat mostly because the police does not want to protect them.

FV:

``Filing a court case is a way out, but when it takes years for other serious issues to get a fair judgment or any judgment at all), do you think it would work here?``

I agree with this only partially. It may take years to get any decision from the courts, but it is the easiest thing to get a court injunction to stop any action until the courts decide; this is indeed the main reason why the Chinese can build a highway in months while the Indian authorities are fighting various NGOs in the courts to get the permission to demolish even illegal structures. This also raises another issue; presuming as I do that the muncipal action was designed to induce a riot, why do/did Muslims fall for it? Why can`t they take a simple court action or a peaceful demonstration, especially since they know that the police is biased against them -and not just in Gujarat?

Re: # 86 DM
[....Why can`t they take a simple court action or a peaceful demonstration, especially since they know that the police is biased against them -and not just in Gujarat?...]

Exactly... Why do we always riot at the drop of a hat?... especially for muslim communities around the country - riot has become the default way of protest... at the drop of a hat - they fan out in murderous rampage like brain-dead lunatics... as if being a muslim gives them a license to create mayhem...

And inevitably - the reaction from police and majority community is swift and equally murderous. End result - more muslims end up dying and losing proerty then anybody else... and yet no lesson is ever learnt - next time something happens - the same routine starts all over again...

In the mean time - politicians make hay...islamists cry copius tears... commies write volumes of non-sense in their rags... life goes on - nobody learns a thing, no remedial meaure is ever taken.. the cycle repeats itself again and again and again...

I don`t want to inflame anybody - but I am going ask this: Why are indian muslims so stupid?...