Theory and the Facts of Life

Gill sahib, this reads like satire, and I hope it is one. :)

``I have noticed on several social occasions when the Pakistanis and Indian Muslims indulge in social conversation and offer their views about America, its social and economic conditions, and international politics, many of them invariably say somewhat gleefully that the American economy is fast deteriorating. ``


No need to include IM-s as your co-conspirators in your stupidites.......... blame it on your Pak Studies and your TNT you so proudly display to the world..............a Pakistani mindset is by default communal and cannot comprehend the western liberal secular society.........

nice hooks to make us want to read ``Taking Islam Back``

-- added at #372 to my ``Should read`` list

Re: # 1

Nowadays, it is a common occurence that one`s name, ID, EMail address and writings etc do get hijacked. Is it possible Mohammad Gill`s name has been hijacked! by some one in Detroit?

Gill Sahib, I have found your writings to be sane and rational. This one just reaffirms my belief. Thanks.

Mohammad Gill {``However, this is the mentality of the first generation immigrants. The succeeding generations do not seem to carry the “intellectual baggage” of their parents and grand parents; many of them seem to be thinking out of the box. They try to live an Islamic way of life in a new Islamic way; their model is the so called American Islam, which allows them to rationalize and redefine basic principles to make a transition to the American ambience in which they find themselves living.``}

Gill Sahib,
I agree with you. As with other immigrants, the second and succeeding generations are rapidly assimilating in America. I don`t know that much about UK, but in the US, intermarriage and the replacement of Hindu, Urdu, Pashto, and Punjabi with English are the catalysts for a welcome change. Except for the ISNA, ICNA, and CAIR-obsessed Muslims, the vast majority is now well-immersed in being American. The tragic terrorisim of September 11 has, if anything, helped to accelerate this transition. I notice more and more people not discussing their Muslim roots or emphasizing their differences from the native Judeo-Christian population. In another 50 years, you will have ``reformed`` Muslims who will think nothing of paying/receiving interest, eating pork, drinking beer, and indulging in premarital sex. Just like the Jews before them and the Hindus and Sikhs among them, Muslims are finding assimilation as the most logical course. You can`t fight history - and it is repeating itself, again.

kheera na kar saka mughey jalwa-e-danish-e-farhang
surma hey meri aakh ka, khaak-e-madina-o-najaf!
Iqbal

{The western way of life is close to the theoretical Islamic way of life although we rush to condemn it. We (who live in the west) enjoy the benefits that the western system confers on us as citizens of the west but we routinely condemn the west by virtue of our ingrained habit and inborn hostility toward the west.}

Above was probably the most honest lines that you have ever had written.(it is a compliment in case you are wondering).

Same can be said about Sikhs in America too. American Converts to Sikhism are probably the most sincere and straight shooters than I have ever seen.

No matter how much people whine about America`s hegemony, it is still the best place to live. Imagine, you ad I were allowed to live here and voice our opinions. Could you have done the same in Pakistan?
You probably would have gone missing in a truck accident somewhere near the Ravi river if you wrote words like this in Pakistan.

Dillidost and Gill Saib,

Isn`t it wonderful that Muslim Pakistanis, Hindu, Sikh, and Muslim Indians have all immigrated to the US and have become citizens of the same country? They could not peacefully live together in one independent nation, but they went out of their way to go to the US and live together and even prosper harmoniously in ONE COUNTRY.

Re: # 9 salim

Good one :)... they killed and got killed in thousands to get away from the kafir and to live in pure land [not that kafir is complaining:)] - and then willingly migrated to land of the ultra-kafir.... and now they rail against the same system that gave the life, liberty and prosperity... what are you going to with these people?...

Do Indian Muslim immigrants also partake in this stupidity?.... I thought only pakis can be so retarded....

#10, Mohar 11 {``Do Indian Muslim immigrants also partake in this stupidity?.... I thought only pakis can be so retarded....``}

Mohar,
Except for the brain-washed jerks in J&K, do you see IMs wearing suicide belts?
While I don`t like to classify people by their religion, I am forced to speak in the language of the people I am stuck with. :)
I would prefer so many other classifications:
Rich, poor
Short, tall
Skinny, fat
Naked, overclothed
Illiterate, literate
Funny, sourpuss
Veggie, Future veggie

Mohar Bhai,
Asliyat ye hai ke Amreeka Sarree duniya ko apnee ASS dikhata hai. Baake sarey mulk apnee tareefon ka pull baandh dete hai.
Lekin Amreeka apna chootiyan highlight karta hai.

Tamam duniya jo Amreeka ki weakness samajhtee hai, wohee Amreeka ki strength hai.

Re: # 12 dw

True... everybody does a bit of amrika-bashing, everybody has pet-peeves :)...

But what the author says here seems to be more than just political grand-standing done by third-world immigrant types... The author says ``....they wish hopelessly to undermine the American standard of well-being`` .... that`s takes this to a whole different level...

And if that`s true and we have fifth column building up in this country - well, that don`t look good... I mean - we all know how bad things are in UK...

shikam kee aag liyay phir rahee hai shehr b` shehr
sUG-e zamana hain, hUm kya humaari hijrat kya..........................Iftikhar Arif.

tr: the fire in the belly has given us this wander-lust
worldly-dogs are we,; a hijrat it is certainly not.


During the glory days of slavery the house niggar said to the field niggar : ``Ain` the massa so nice, he feeds us on time, plumps us well so we wor` har` and our chil`en get white man `ducation. Praise the lord and tend the fields; we ain` like those jungle bunnies from Africa no more``.

And the Godfather Corleones family loved the old man; sure enough he kept them well fed & well dressed so that senators & congressmen`s wives & daughters loved to be in their company.

So what if the Godfather (President?) don`t pay UN dues, refuses to be a part of International Court, robs the third worlders, stirs up the hornet`s nest to flush out the IQ`s of PhD mice to work the treadmills to continue to churn out the milk and honey.

``Who cares about the near and dear ones. They are not near, they were never near ; we`ll bomb them, with the help of our field niggers & white-house master to the bone & make them see the light of rationality of godlessness``--musings of the code-coolies & guinea-pigs.

P.S 1: ``Nobody can prosper & have the luxury of `R & D` unless it stomps on a lot of skulls or deprives some stomachs. be they as a legal/illegal chimera of mexicans, cubans,
or muslimistaans.

P.S 2: The SDO`s of civil in particular, who had no need to become wandering dogs very wisely stayed back. If Dollars in US-AID( aids?) can come to them , why should they go to it. They kept contractors happy, and the contractors returned the bounty seven-fold[--`aur tuum hamaari kin kin naimatoaN ko jhhuutlaO gey`--they interpreted].

Their families love them, they have hale & hearty friends & they have VVIP status. And here is a tread-mill operator [ fancy word: researcher] complaining that the world has passed him by.

The common & the most ordinary ones have the most common sense--a rarity with the phDs & MDs (phiray huay dimaaghs). Have you not noticed that the ones you despised & looked-down upon turned out to be the most admired, successful and full-of-life?

``The western way of life is close to the theoretical Islamic way of life although we rush to condemn it. We (who live in the west) enjoy the benefits that the western system confers on us as citizens of the west but we routinely condemn the west by virtue of our ingrained habit and inborn hostility toward the west. I am neither justifying the western politics nor its hostile stance toward the Muslim world``

Re: I think there is a confusion here. The large part of the condemnation of the West coming from Muslim countries is due to its politics and policies towards them. Condemnation of the so-called ``Western way of life`` is a topic having much less of interest to ordinary citizens of the Muslim countries. In my view when an ordinary citizen of a Muslim country condemns ``the West`` it is to be understood in political terms only.

Re: # 15
Try to look at this conflict from American View point and then tell me if America has done anything wrong here.
You may not like what America is doing but for Americans this is the most logical thing to sustain it`s own well being.

Imagine that things would not have changed in 60ies and people like Mr Mohammad Gill and other Pakistanis and even people like me would never even have come to USA. Where would you have stood then?

I doubt that as a Pakistani or Indian anyone even would have seen the Internet. Forget, Nuclear Power, as Dr Bhaba or your own Nuclear 007 would not have even travelled to West, they probably would have died as some mediocre wanna bee scientist.

India and Pakistan probably would have fought more wars with antique weapons leftover from WW-2, and eventually India would have simply outrun Pakistan due to its large man-power......

This is the truth, and I hate every time any Indi/Paki complains about America. They have no right. Given how much they have benefitted from the bones. Would you die of starvation or suck on old bones fromt he master?

Truth hurts and spin stops here!!