The Purdah Police

Goodness, this is rather depressing. But you`d be surprised how many muslims are actually functioning on culture rather than religious directive (Zeena`s point) and how little they actually know. Anyways, universal truths hold for all religions. Just being a decent person and all. But the messed up state of muslims actually has very little to do with Islam. It`s mostly the people themselves, and their insecurities, and their lack of knowledge of thier faith. Kind of unfair to blame the religion just because of the people.

#5 mantoji..
you are putting dark thoughts into the minds of the mullahs!!
what would you be having on your mind by straying so ``always``?
:)
Gaur ke kabil baat hai yeh!
Jayen

its simply the rotting of the mind..and nothing much to do with Religion..
had they been christians with bibles in their pockets..and would they have hurled edicts in the same way but only replacing Allah with Jesus..

these people are everywhere..

super imposing the doctrine which is not truly not so..

this category as such..hails from one and only..Party which i would not disclose here..lest it be insulted..although it had done and shown much to DIY..way..

its all theory without implement../ practise..but they call themselves the master and learned..which ironically doesn`t go with the learned intellect..

---

at first..it came as if its your own..experience..
nicely managed Purdah Police..

but poor..friend of the groom..must have gone red everytime one of the elites of the brigade was watching him..
must`ve made him churn.in the stomach..

Re: # 67
[...I am seeing a mullah in you...]

You are seeing things.... not good... get a check up... call - 1 800 DR MOHAR...

non-muslims have been affected by islam and its followers.... islamic terror has affected the entire world...

you see things that ain`t there ... but you don`t see things that are starting right at your face... that`s not good...

#66
mohar11

{{You wrote it affected your life in profound ways}}

Can you please, elaborate how many ways you are being wounded , tortured yourself by Islam??

Your obsession for Islam is no more less than fanatic Mullahs. I am seeing a mullah in you.

Re: # 56 zeena
[...leave Islam alone...]

No maam, no can do... Islam, as practiced today, has become a destructive force - similar to nazism and communism of yester-years... it has affected kafir lives in profound ways and we kafirs have no choice but to seek to neutralize this ideology...

I am not ``mocking`` islam - I am telling you the way it is...

#62
jay

You better stop your own confusion. Take a break and quit chowk with your useless rantings.

I am not doing any task of improving the image of any religion or Islam. If some one is confused and still calls himself Muslim and think others are confused ,too. That is what I am pointing out.

If you are Hindu, stick to your own belief or religion, you don`t need to hypervent for Islam.
You better take care of your own dogmatic confusions.

#61
hamdim2

Please, stop your projection of confusion upon others. Your confusion is killing you and you are like a merry go round, like a vicious cricle of confusion.

Re: # 62

jay,

.... it is called ``denial`` ...........unfortunately, the first step to a cure is ``acceptance`` ... sigh !

Re: # 62

{In the large majority of the muslim countries hoodood is the law. Any muslim converting to another religion will be killed, now that should be the proof of equality of religion in muslim countries.}

Large majority of the muslim countries? Unless u have expunged Bangladesh, Turkey, Indonesia, Egypt from your list of Muslim countries and included Saudi Arabia nd Pakistatan only then tour assertion maybe correct, otherwise u r way off the mark and trying to present nothing more than baseless propaganda.

As for killing of muslim converts, well that is also debatble from a Islamic perspective and is not followed or allowed in majority of th Muslim countries. I guess ppl like u take pride in murdering innocent ppl in the name of religion such as the recent murderous sttack on a Turkish judge, that says it all.

Zeena 55,

You have well and truly taken up the task of ``improving the image of islam``. What is is alm is not some private lunatic viwe of islam, it is formulated and projected by institutions that encompaas people who follow islam. Actions of pakistan an islamic country, actions of people of soudi arabia, what is preached in the mosques, these are the operational aspects of islam. Islam is not in the selective reading of a book, it is in the collective actions of the muslims.

In the large majority of the muslim countries hoodood is the law. Any muslim converting to another religion will be killed, now that should be the proof of equality of religion in muslim countries.

Zeena, take a break, quitt the chowk, you are making no headway.

Re: # 55

zeena,

... please contact hazrat tahmed (ra) ..... he is looking for a female apostle to join his ``new and improved``, ``kinder and gentler`` and ``hadith/sharia free`` version of islam .......... as his first apostle i will vote for you ..... you are in !..........

.... now, let`s go out and kick some wahabi ass !!!! (in our new religion we are allowed to use this word) ............ takbeer! (or, cheers - whatever pleases you, it is okay by our prophet tahmed (ra) )

#57 Ranjit

You leave me fairly astounded.

Do you mean to tell me that it is possible for Muslim ladies to be fat and ugly?

I thought they were all ``cute`` - by definition! Isn`t the wicked world of evil kafirs drooling all over them - just to get to that ``fair`` skin?

Like Suzanne Somers once said - and can still probably say!

``If you got it, blow it with a trumpet!``

I wonder where the ladies of chowk nights rate?!

Considering all the time that they probably spend on their fannies in front of the computer, probably more on the ``fat`` side and less on the ``cute`` side!

Ref#38

Dear Zeena

You just commited blasphemy by saying that purdah is not Islamic by christ it is and by mohammad it will be enforced by force.

Hygene condtions in arabia were not upto scratch. Mohammad wive`s use to go out to answer nature`s call. Some of the early muslim`s were peeping toms and they use to tease some of Mohammad`d wives.

To stop this Mohammad came up with revelation`s of purdah.

Later muslim`s scholors like Al-Ghazali went further and said the whole female body is vagina and therfore they should cover it.

That is Islamic justification for purdah

God save the muslim women from Islam.

Re:bjkumar#33

[...Can anybody name ONE single benefit of purdah?...]

Yep, it covers up all the fat and ugly women as well as the cute ones. Since the cute ones are only a minority in any population, the purdah shields men from looking at fat, ugly women all the time. May not be a bad deal, actually.

#47 by mohar11 on May 20, 2006 9:55am PT
Re: # 46
[..I really laugh at some biased Hindus when they target Islam with their won narrowminded approach........with out even knowing any ABCS of real Islam.]

Oh yeah - the real Islam... we have been hearing about this magical beast called ``real islam`` for quite sometime now... nobody has seen it yet... :)....

So you can believe in magical beasts and laugh your heart out... the joke is actually on you :)...

mohar11

Just read my post # 55. Thank you. If you really wish to know what Islam is.....or leave Islam alone.

You do not have any heart and soul to understand any belief or religion, let islam alone.....

Right from the beginning you sounded like a JOKER. No need to prove it any more. I already know, when you start mocking Islam with NO reason.

I do not mock Hinduism. Rather I read Geeta with great interest. And , frankly I do believe in so many concepts of Hindu religion. This is the way I am.

If you mock religions, it doesn`t mean anything.

Yes, If you wish to mock some persons then mock them on other issues. What is this like a broken record , your needle is stuck on rererererere rrrrrr religion, Islaaaaaaaam.

#50 by hamidm2
Dear hamdim2 sahib

You wrote:-a):- {{it is what it is even if you don`t know what is is ...}}}
My answer to this is , Islam is a belief/religion which is your personal/private issue. It has got nothing to do with what you know or what you do not know.

It has got nothing to do with what you say about Islam. And for your kind information I have an absolutely CLEAR idea about what Islam is. If you yourself don`t know what Islam is, then you have the problem NOT me.

You wrote:-b):-{{{ but you must admit that something is what it is, and just hoping that it isn`t wat it appears to be doesn`t make it what you wish for it to be ............ is that too confusing ?........... maybe it is - after all, i have been a muslim for almost fifty years and still don`t know what is islam}}}}

My answer to this is , If you have a CONFUSION about Islam then do not PROJECT or do not use projection defense mechanism on others. And stop your illusions that others also are exactly like you that they do not know what Islam is.

I do not have any CONFUSION about my religion/belief Islam. And believe me if I have a little bit of doubt about what Islam or if I am confused about my own belief then I will leave my religion, I will say bye bye to my religion or belief. Then there is NO reason for me to be called Muslim.

I am Muslim with NO doubt in my mind about my religion Islam, which is as pure and simple as a new born child.

Let me brief my religion Islam to you which is crystal clear.

#1 :- First of all Islam is my personal/private prerogative. I do not believe in advertisement of being Muslim or being from any religion. (When I talk about Islam, it means I am talking about all religions in general and Islam in particular, b/c you brought Islam in to this discussion. My Islam is between My GOD and me. It has got nothing to do with you, with others and with Mullahs.

#2:- Mullahs are not owner of Islam or Islam is not their property. Islam is my own personal spiritual peace that I find a link between me and GOD. I hate Mullahs b/c they have made a new cult which they name Islam with new rules, with new and false Hadiths, with convoluted meanings of Quran to satisfy their own IGNORANCE, to satisfy their own devilish minds without spirit, without depths. They have created a havoc and confusion about Islam just to mislead innocent people to make them puppets who can dance to their own tunes.

#3:- I believe in five pillars of Islam,{{ roza, namaz, zakat, hajj, kalma.}}. Yes, indeed.

#4:- I believe in all the best qualities of a good human beings mentioned in Quran(which are 0% in these Mullahs).

#5:- I recite Quran myself and then think and re think for the meaning of it`s various verses, always I come up with the right answer. My mind with the honesty of my soul leads me to the right direction where GOD wishes us to be. NOT the way of these Mullahs.

#6:- I do not believe in Hadiths, so I do not read them. They create confusion b/c majority of them are false made by these devilish mullahs.

#7:- At the end Islam is for all the humanity of the world. Islam is about being a nice person. If you are a nice person, you are Muslim/ Hindu/Christian/jew whatever all these religions teach us to be good humans. Islam is based on LOVE of humanity. If you are nice person, you do not need to be confused, you are a good Muslim.

#8:- I do not believe in Sharia. Sharia is another curse which is just an abuse of Islam.

You see, I am not confused about my religion. I am hardworking, nice, honest, law abiding, with good character person. That is exactly what Islam is..........So, I am the superMuslim.

If you have some confusion about your own religion, then you should leave Islam and stop calling yourself Muslim.

Thank you

#49 by ammara.chaudhry on May 20, 2006 10:59am PT


As I said in My earleir post, that many people here just talk about islam without opening the Quran or the Hadith.


Perhaps it`s because people have a problem with the actions of muslims as opposed to islam..regardless of what islam or the koran teaches, people go by the actions of muslims..either islam tells them to do all the ``things`` or a vast majority of muslims aren`t followers of Islam..

I think people look at saudi arabia, the land of the guardian of islam`s holiest places, and make up their minds..

Re: # 49
> So with a very sincere heart, take my advise and try meet and get to know Islam with an
> unbiased mind
Done. Can we meet now ?

It is clear that all organised religions were created by smart human beings, kings and kingdoms and they did it in order to strengthen their kingdoms and to control human masses.

This piece of research tells us that Islam was created by Roman Catholics and Vatican and I believe that prophet Mohammad (pbuh) was NOT an illiterate person and he could read and he spent lot of time in the company of Roman catholic scholars.

Hazrat Warqa bin Nofil who was cousin of Hazrat Khadija (ra) was a great Roman catholic scholar who could READ and WRITE hebrew and Arabic in those days and Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) spent lot of time in his company.

Let us see What this Guy Alberto says about the theory that Islam was created by Smart Roman Catholic minds of Vatican, he says:

``The Vatican wanted to create a messiah for the Arabs, someone they could raise up as a great leader, a man with charisma whom they could train, and eventually unite all the non-Catholic Arabs behind him, creating a mighty army that would ultimately capture Jerusalem for the pope. In the Vatican briefing, Cardinal Bea told us this story:

`A wealthy Arabian lady who was a faithful follower of the pope played a tremendous part in this drama. She was a widow named Khadijah. She gave her wealth to the church and retired to a convent, but was given an assignment. She was to find a brilliant young man who could be used by the Vatican to create a new religion and become the messiah for the children of Ishmael. Khadijah had a cousin named Waraquah,, who was also a very faithful Roman Catholic and the Vatican placed him in a critical role as Muhammad`s advisor. He had tremendous influence on Muhammad.

`Teachers were sent to young Muhammad and he had intensive training. Muhammad studied the works of St. Augustine which prepared him for his ``great calling.`` The Vatican had Catholic Arabs across North Africa spread the story of a great one who was about to rise up among the people and be the chosen one of their God.

`While Muhammad was being prepared, he was told that his enemies were the Jews and that the only true Christians were Roman Catholic. He was taught that others calling themselves Christians were actually wicked impostors and should be destroyed. Many Muslims believe this.

`Muhammad began receiving ``divine revelations`` and his wife`s Catholic cousin Waraquah helped interpret them. From this came the Koran. In the fifth year of Muhammad`s mission, persecution came against his followers because they refused to worship the idols in the Kaaba. ..........................

Here is the link for further study,

http://www.davidicke.com/content/view/745/42/

Re: # 49
[...get to know Islam with an unbiased mind...]

Granted... and then what? even if I become the biggest ``scholar`` in islam - how does that help you muslims?... you guys would still be segregating women and doing other stuff that you are doing...

I mean - it isn`t as if there are ever any dearth of people who know islam inside out[or so they claim]... over the centuries - millions of saints, sufis, maulanas, mullahs have come and gone - yet, islam and muslims stay exactly where they are - mired in backwardness, orthodoxy, blind religiosity...

The issue here is muslim backwardness which directly follows from the religion they follow -because, as you said - islam is a way of life and that ``way of life`` has basically led people to where they are today...

Keep your eye on the ball...and you will understand what we are talking about here... there is no contradiction whatsover...

Re: # 46

zeena,

................... it is what it is even if you don`t know what is is ...

...... if, as you say, there is no such thing as ``muslim society`` and the arab culture has ``got nothing to do with Islam or religion`` and what the ``stupid Mullahs relate them to Islam`` is not islam, then what the heck IS islam ?.............

..... now please don`t give me the clintonesque ``what is, is`` answer ........ the truth is we don`t know what is is and therfore some might conclude that it is nothing but a lot of goobeldygook........but you must admit that smothing is what it is, and just hoping that it isn`t wat it appears to be doesn`t make it what you wish for it to be ............ is that too confusing ?........... maybe it is - after all, i have been a muslim for almost fifty years and still don`t know what is islam ...... and trust me i have looked high and low in the koran and the hadith to find what it is all about .......... in the end i have concluded that what is, is and we will just have to live with it ....... i know that sounds terribly defeatist but, not to repeat myslef, it is what it is ..........

Mohar,
As I said in My earleir post, that many people here just talk about islam without opening the Quran or the Hadith. If people can climb over the fense of illusions that they have built around them, they might see what is out in the world.
I hate bringing Islam or n e other religion in my discussions because i believe any religion is nothing but a belief, hope and a way of living the life. If Islam works for ppl they r welcome to become a muslim. If they think Jesus christ can show them the light or Geeta is the ultimate book of perfection go for it.
I think you have beent he most contradicting person in the discussion. So with a very sincere heart, take my advise and try meet and get to know Islam with an unbiased mind. Trust me it will break many barriers and vanish many illusions.

Yo.. no offense to n e one out there.. but Why is everyone getting so personal in the discussion. It seems like... many people who are writing here seem to be insecure about their position. I mean, why do we have to fight over religion. If after all the schooling and the intellectual discussions, we r still going to cry over the difference of belief, i think we don`t deserve to be here.
Ammara

Re: # 46
[..I really laugh at some biased Hindus when they target Islam with their won narrowminded approach........with out even knowing any ABCS of real Islam.]

Oh yeah - the real Islam... we have been hearing about this magical beast called ``real islam`` for quite sometime now... nobody has seen it yet... :)....

So you can believe in magical beasts and laugh your heart out... the joke is actually on you :)...

RE:- #44

mohar11

BTW, what do you know about Islam? Just based on some false Hadiths and misinterpretations and convolutions of Quran.

Who has made you authority on Islam out of all people?

You better wake up and make sense.

Stop these moronish posts that gives nothing but more confusion.

You sound like a broken record fixed on one point..............

Which Muslim society?

There is no such thing as Muslim society.....Yes, there is culture which is not muslim.

Arabs have their own cutlure....bad or good it is. It has got nothing to do with Islam or religion.......

Pakistanies, Indians, iranies, and so on.....All particular regions have their own cultural customs which are never mentioned in Quran.

If, some stupid Mullahs relate them to Islam. It means NOTHING.

I really laugh at some biased Hindus when they target Islam with their won narrowminded approach........with out even knowing any ABCS of real Islam.

They and their biased approach towards Islam or any religion reminds me of those moronish Pseudo Mullahs who make NO sense, who have no idea what they are talking about. Who are stuck on one thing and that is their own insecurity and narrowminded approach.........................

Wake up and clear your mind ....You are too, confused. Thank you

Re: # 43 hamid

OK, then - let`s make the book irrelevant - a trophy to be admired as a gift from the gabriel but never to be consulted for anything... that may work...

Otherwise it`s immposible to take even the first step towards reformation... anytime somebody takes up an muslim social issue - immediately a bunch of people pull their books and start regurgitating same old tired arguments: this is real islam, that is not islam, koran is authentic, hadith is not... then everybody just jumps into the mud pit and pelt each other with generous dollops of religious monkey-poop...

at the end of the day - everybody comes out looking ridiculous... The real issues are left unattended as they have been for centuries now.

Re: # 38 zeena
[....I STRONGLY BELIEVE purdah is absolutely NOT related to Islam...]

I strongly believe in tooth fairy... I strongly believe I can sell brooklyn bridge for a million bucks... You can believe what you want - the reality is what it is... gender discrimination is in-built in islam - in the book, outside the book, in hadith, in culture - it don`t matter... it`s an evil that has to be eliminated for muslim socities to progress - splitting hairs ain`t going to help...

I strongly believe caste system absolutely not related to hinduism... I believe sati system was just a two-for-one discount funeral service... such statements are absurd... and counter-productive...

Wake up...

Re: # 42

mohar,

..... i would agree with you but for the fact that other religions like judaism and christianity have managed to move on without banning their books which are equally hateful of women ........ even the horrible hindoos have stopped burning widows and started burning missionaries instead .(it is a pleasent change).......

........ today this problem is peculiar to islam and the muslims ....... therefore we must find the root cause in order to fix it ......

...... the turks did the right thing as a short term fix, but i don`t think it is a permanent cure .......

Re: # 41

It`s The Book stupid :)... quran, hadith and whatever other ``revelations`` people have been reading and memorizing for centuries - it all comes from there....

The turks have shown the way - banning hijab outright... the next step, ban the book...

the root cause ...........

...... i would still like to get to the root of this problem - why are muslim men so afraid of women ?....... is it because they are easily aroused and then suffer from feelings of guilt ?........ is it because they are insecure and bossing women around makes them feel good about themselves ?........ is it because since they have been beaten in every field of human endeavour by western men, they are frustrated and take it out on their women ?.........is it because they are inherently misogynistic ?......... is it because they hate their mothers ?........ is it vagina envy ?........

........... if it is not any of the above, what the heck is it then ?! ........ i think we need to get to the root cause so we can fix it instead of complaining about trivial things like women being segregated at weddings ............

...... but this is an okay article and the author has done a good job of describing one of the symptoms of this disease fairly well .............

I`m the author of this piece...thank you everyone for taking the time to read and respond (aside from that one individual with a single post whose expression of ignorance and hate is pitiful).

I`ll respond to some of you here:


Ballu Khan #8 - interesting analysis...I can`t disagree with you


rkhan#15 re: pick up Quran - great advice; it is the greatest travesty of contemporary times that the Qur`an has been neglected and people are following an array of made-up tales. The reference books (Hadith) are good to refer to, in an objective manner, for matters relating to that which has already been mentioned in the Miraculous Qur`an. Naturally, the authenticity can never be assured 100%, but I believe anyone with some knowledge can generally ``filter`` it.


Oak #13 re: ``Beware of making what is permitted haram - as this is the way of the Ahl-e-Kitab`` - excellent point


Kulharee #16 - as much as I condemn the killing of the judge, I also can never support the unfair hijab-ban (it`s not just purdah ban) in Turkey. Women should have the freedom to wear hijabs if they so wish in any country, and to forcefully disallow that is ridiculously wrong.


Ammara.Chaudhry #20 - fair points by Ammara all throughout...except for the fact that I`m not a member of the female gender... :)


Mohar11 #25 - there are all kinds of Muslim weddings that occur in North America...and from what I hear, it seems that ``back-home`` ones are way more ``modern`` in extravagance and lavish than the ones here. Quite frankly, as much as I dislike the dry Purdah Police ones, I`d still prefer them over the drinking & dancing ones that occasionally happen, mostly in desi hubs like Toronto, Houston, etc.

Why can`t people have normal, balanced, traditional ones...they`re so much fun!


Ammara.Chaudhry #27 - agree with Ammara; escapist is not being aggressive...it`s good to have someone like him post his points, just like everyone else. The more exchange there is, the better the possibility of the outcome.


Zeena #38 - I whole-heartedly agree with your post! I think you really caught what I feel to the T. The only thing is, I don`t think we can reject ALL of the Hadith based on the majority being corrupt. See my response to rkhan#15.

On side not:-

My purdah and my segregation is my own privacy. It has got NOTHING to do with my religion.

Dear Writer

I don`t mind if some families segregate their wedding ceremonies. I rather respect their purdah cultural customs.

And I don`t mind women wearing hijab and observing purdah either. Again I respect their cultural customs.

Yes, I do mind when these people start pushing me in to this segregation thing and in to this purdah or hijab thing and start giving me dig lectures about hijab in reference to Hadiths and Quran or Islam.

I STRONGLY BELIEVE purdah is absolutely NOT related to Islam. I DO mind when these people start mixing their Islam with their culture. Islam is my personal issue. It is my religion which has got nothing to do with my purdah.

I do not believe in Hadiths. B/c Hadiths are NOT AUTHENTIC. So, why to believe on Hadiths If I have strong doubts about them. 90 % of Hadiths were created by Pseudo Mullahs just for their own convenience.

These PseudoMullahs ABUSE Hadiths for their own self defense. When they are unable to give any LOGIC about any lame thing practiced by them or their implementations upon others, they start using false hadiths as their weapons of mass destructions.

They do not stop here, they also start CONVOLUTING and mis interpreting Quran`s verses to suit their own idiotic selves.

I studied Quran in extreme details and I study it almost every other day(whenever I have time , I also listen to Quran`s cassettes in English and Urdu translations )

I have NOT found a single verse in Quran, that emphasised on segegration or that emphasised on Hijab.

The only verse that states about covering your bodies is,`` Oh, man and women cover your private body parts..........It implies both on men and women.

Now, such morons always try to twist this verse in a negative way to suit themselves.

So, my conclusion of this discussion is, I do not mind their wedding segregations or their purdah, as long as they do not attach these customs to ISLAM or as long as they do not push me in to them..............Thank you.

...... forget about weddings ..... women are not even allowed at funerals ! ........... why are muslim men so afraid of women ? ..... is heterosexuality haram in islam ?

#34 Escapist

Wow! That is quite a list.

Now, let us go through it one by one!

(1) Pleasing Allah tala! Hey, we men can do it too!

(2) A sense of Islamic identity! Who can have it stronger than Trully and Boomer?!

(3) Knowledge of following the example of the “best generation” of Muslims. Trully and Boomer, of course!

(4) So pious and righteous, clearly Muslims would want to preserve their beauty from others and share only with spouse(s). Just imagine those kafirs drooling all over your beautiful Muslim charms - like naughty kids going and grabbing ripe mangoes! Perhaps, purdah is the ultimate safety shield. So let us make sure those pious and righteous beautiful Muslim males get to cover their attractive features, too - what if kafir women start lusting after them - and even kafir men!

(5) Being treated with respect as a thinking human being, and boy we know the Muslim men DESERVE their fair share of respect!

(6) Cuts down on race issues - absolutely! Nobody can tell what race, gender, or species are you! A readymade device for all Muslim men to forever escape the curse of racism, casteism, sexism, you name it!

Brilliant! You have made a perfect case for all Muslim men to start wearing the hizab!

Let us get those plucky brave Muslim men to start wearing the purdah! Perhaps Manto should be the first to start!

Re: # 34
Dear escapist,
Hope u r doing well.

With regards to Ayath 33:59, where did u get this translation, here`s another posted by Yusuf Ali:

033.059 O Prophet! Tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women, that they
should cast their outer garments over their persons (when abroad): that is most
convenient, that they should be known (as such) and not molested. And God is Oft-
Forgiving, Most Merciful.


Arabic (Quranic) words used have different meanings but none state all over their bodies. Why wud they be known and not be molested? Cause this ayath came in times of war and women were advised to be careful when leaving home cause they were at risk of being ``molested``. Now does that mean women are at risk of being molested by that horrible animal called man whenever they leave home in normal times?

1. Pleasing Allah SWT? So women are supposed to cover themselves to please Allah? Gimme a break, its the parochial, misogynist male mentality getting satisfaction, male and female were created equal by god in the flesh.

2. sense of islamic identity? So nuns, jewish women they wud be classified as what? Purdah as described by u wqas not followed during the Holy Prophet time, this form of women incarceration came after a century when Mulsims interacted with the orthodox christians whose elite kept their women behind veils. It represented status, nothing to do with religious doctrine.

3. repition of your point number 2.

4. Preserve beauty for the husband, how selfish. Just kiddin. First of all, this is a opinion with no religious sanction. On a separate note, beauty is in the eye of the beholder and secondly, when God does not hide beauty for us to enjoy then why do we act as guardians with no authority?

5. All human beings deserve to be treated with respect irrespective of creed, colour or sex. Should ppl of dark origin cover themselves to be treated with respect? Your statement by its implication is rascists and smacks of human prejuidices

6. Repititive. 5&6 are the same.

I like your inappropriate reasons for wearing niqaab.

Re: # 33

On Benefits of Purdah..

O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies. That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allah is Ever Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
The Noble Qur’an Surah 33:59

1. Pleasing Allah swt


2. A sense of Islamic identity. When you wear full hijab (covering of the head, neck, chest, face, hands and feet), there is no doubt that you are Muslim. You will not be mistaken for anything else but a Muslimah. Perhaps this is what Allah meant when He said “…they should be known as (free and respectable women) so as not to be annoyed…” (Surah 33:59)
3. Knowledge that we are following the example of the “best generation” of Muslims. The wives and daughters of the Prophet (SAW), as well as the Companions wives, wore the veil and covered completely. They are the most pious of women who we try to learn to be like, so why would we make an exception in this instance?
4. As a pious and righteous wife, we should want to preserve our beauty from others and share it only with our husband.
5. Being treated with respect as a thinking human being. When we are veiled, no one can tell if we are fat or thin, blonde or brunette, cute or homely or beautiful, or what color our skin is. This is a big blessing, in that they will not see us as an exploitable object or insult us either. People are forced to hear the words we say instead of concentrating on what we look like and missing out on our minds.
6. Cuts down on race issues. When we are covered fully, no one knows for sure even the color of our skin. This protects us from the racist remarks and treatment that is still so prevalent in North America, and elsewhere


Inappropriate Reasons for Wearing Niqaab

As stated, we wear niqaab first and foremost for the pleasure of Allah. There are a few reasons that some Muslimahs wear it that are not in accordance with Islam and are not pleasing to Allah. These include:
• Pride and arrogance
• Lack of humility about one’s beauty
• Class or caste distinction
• Cultural tradition
Sisters that wear the veil for these purposes are missing out on the real benefits of covering. The purdah (covering) that is Islamic is also in one’s actions and attitude and must come from a heart full of love and fear of Allah.


By Ms. Hernandez

Can anybody name ONE single benefit of purdah?

Re: # 27
Well, ammara bibi....that is how i see it and expressed my view. You dont have to necessarily agree with me. Hadith`s were compiled more than a century after the demise of Prophet Mohammed(PBUH) and to base Islamic practices that are not backed by Quran are causing huge mess in the world.

Re #30
well.. not in all cases.. but many weddings yes. i think back home in PAK or india.. people still get to single-mingle.. but here in states no..
its weird how u see hydro-aunties, wearing a air tight hijab.. talking islam.. and they have a blouse on..that is sleevless and shows every inch of mid-riff GOD gave em.
Ammara

Re: # 25

OK - the muslim wedding. I wanted to know if the forced gender segregation happens at muslim weddings that take place in US...

I mean - back in the ``home`` countries, muslims stick to their ``customs`` - hence herding women to one corner would not be surprising... but muslims living in US, I would think that they would be enlightened enough NOT to resort that kind of stupidity...

Apparently not...

jang,
Nothing wrong until u end up at a wedding where a desi bhai jaan is marrying a african american aunty. Then the desi uncle jees cry over mixed offsprings, and aunty jees gossip over ``amreeka ki hawa lag gayi hai.`` and rest of the girls can`t find a suitable larka, cuz however many there were, all married either gori or kaali. and then the girls are put at home to cry over their naseeb.
the thing is let the people meet. If a couple has married, and will live happily ever after, let others take advantage of the gathering and may be find a match for them selves too. u know.. . Uncles can discuss the politics and enjoy the vodka at home, aunties can share the jewels and gossip at a lady lunch, but how m any times do u find 50-100 guys and girls looking their best at home? NEVER, i think. so either take the purdah out, or be ready to bring the multi-cultural weddings home.

i think these weddings sound good..so the men hang-out together over martinis, scotch and smokes and discuss politics and stocks..women gossip, exchange recipes, discuss jewellery and clothes (and allow kids to run-around).

see nothing wrong here, makes patent sense!

aashee,
no offense, but what right do u have to call the escapist a ``messer in the world.`` i think its ppl like you who r not willing to listen to the perception of the other side. I think u need to re-read his post one more time, and see that he is not ``making`` or ``telling`` u to do one thing, he was ``answering`` a question, and backing it up, with at least `` some`` sort of reference. Too bad that some among us like to twist the Islam as we please.
Ammara

kaalchakra,
``rigomortis``? i mean what does that even mean? but thanx for the advise though, i`ll keep cautious next time.
Ammara

Mohar,
we r not just talking about PAKI weddings. its like many weddings, but in most cases muslim ceremonies. but Shujaat`s story took place at a ``muslim`` wedding.

Are you guys saying that this gender seggregation thing happens at paki weddings in US?...

ammara

``I bet half the people ...``

Beware of contracting paralysis cum rigomortis under the excuse of of insufficient analysis.

It makes perfect sense to me. And given the incestuous nature of your relations and the paedophilia so popularised by your prophet, it`s a must in family gatherings.

Re: # 15

Well said rkhan...! Its people like this escapist dude who are creating so much mess in this world.

Well.. to agree with Shujjat .. I would have to say.. she is mostly correct. I was also at a wedding on May 14th, where all the ladies were put on one side of the hall and all the men on the other, and were parted with a ``purdahh`` (dry-wall curtain). There were twice as many women and along with children, yet they were put in the section that was half the size of men`s. Fair?! n e how to get back to Shujjat`s point, yes the waiters who were serving the ladies side were desi guys, (hindus, sikhs and many muslims too). I was thinking to my self, ``I can`t look or chill with the guys who I know and am friends with, but these non-muslims are just having the time of their lives serving the ladies sectioon.

on the side note... for those guys who have a problem with hadith, and problem with others views, they need to keep one thing in mind. Keep your self ready to learn n e thing at n e time. if you think someone is wrong, don`t attack or contradict until you have solid proof to prove someone wrong. I bet half the people here who talk about Quran and hadith, never ever opened all the chapters and books of hadith or quran, and are talking what they learned through discussions of others.
Wasalam
A.C.

i happened to attend one such event - and swore never to attend a fundamentalist session like that ever in my life. Lets face it - half the fun in a marraige is to check out
people. What is fun in aaadabing a bunch of women or to have to explain your
marital status to complete strangers or die of hunger till the hotel can find female
staff to serve the female population.

Re: # 14
Dear Escapist,
I appreciate your detailed response, having said that iam still waiting for your reply on my other post, this Sh Baaz post was on the lighter side, Sh Baaz has made many other statements which I will not post but suffice it to say he in my personal opinion is a moron. Please accept my apologies in advance for being disrespectful for someone you hold in esteem.

On a separate note, this article was about the purdah brigade, seems discussion has been sidetracked.

Re: # 9
Escapist,
people like you are the reason why Islam is getting a bad name in this world. First of all when you qouted Quran you could not point out one instance where it says that shaving is haram. You could only qoute Hadith. First of all if you have that much time then start reading Quran rather than looking elsewhere to prove your point.
rkhan is absolutely correct. Pick up Quran. You iwll find that a lot of things you have heard from others are absolutely wrong. Quran says a totally different thing. Sansar is a big example. What is halal and haram is also in there but if you start listening to those idiot mullahs who dont know right from left but call themselves scholars you will end up like them (which from your post does not seem that far away). So stop take a look in the mirror and realize what you are doing wrong. And stop posting these kind of messages unless you have a Qurani ayat to qoute.

A couple of days ago, a Judge In Turkey was killed by an Islami thug, for upholding the ban of purdah in Public places. Purdha is only a tool of the bearded fundoos to keep the women submissive to them.

Re: # 9
escapist dude. You caught me on a wrong day. Normally I would be so busy at work that I wouldn’t care to reply. But fortunately its Friday today and we here in main land Europe tend to work very little on Fridays (I guess that’s also something that’s got to do with Sunnat).

Look at your own post and tell me exactly what’s right. You mention a few references to Hadith but man Hadith was documented decades after the prophet’s death. The most popular Bukhari well over 200 years later. And the authors of these had obviously no direct interaction with the prophet himself. Even so hard as you tried you can’t pin point me one place where facial hair has any mention in the Quran itself.

“Trim the moustache and let the beard grow; be different from the mushrikeen.” Dude have you ever seen Amish people or Jews for that matter.

Allah gave us Quran and promised to keep it unadulterated. He didn’t promise the same for Hadith. So in my humble opinion the Hadith is current form are at least 80% inaccurate and edited to fit into the need of the time and in some cases the author.

My advice mate. Drop the Hadith and pickup Quran.

btw their is also no mention of circumcision male or female in Quran. Or for that matter dogs being ``na-paak``

Re: # 11





Ibn Taymiyyah recorded seven centuries ago the agreement between astronomers and Muslim scholars on the spherical nature of the earth. Muslim scholars derived their position based on exegeses of the Qur’an - and this should come as no great surprise, since true religion and true science have always been considered by Islam to be perfectly harmonious.



In recent years, controversy flared up due to statements falsely attributed to the great scholar, Shaikh ‘Abdul-‘Aziz ibn ‘Abdullah ibn Baz [1]. He was alleged to have said that the earth is flat, and that one who denies this is a disbeliever in Islam. These unfounded allegations were picked up by Cornell astronomer Carl Sagan [2], and also reported in The New York Times [3]. Such high profile sources in turn provided fodder to a host of anti-Islamic writers, with which to label Islam as a backward and anti-scientific way of life. There was also much delight amongst followers of various heretical sects, who used these statements to attack Shaikh Ibn Baz – known throughout his life as a tireless defender of Islamic orthodoxy.



In the letter presented below, Shaikh Ibn Baz affirms his agreement with the position of the classical Islamic scholars on the spherical nature of the earth. He also categorically denies that he said that a person who says the earth is round is a disbeliever.



The letter represents a challenge to all those who have attributed these lies to Shaikh Ibn Baz. Whether they failed to verify sources due to sloppiness, or chose not to due to malice, they are required to retract their statements if they want to salvage any semblance of intellectual integrity.



Text of the Letter



From ‘Abdul-‘Aziz ibn ‘Abdullah ibn Baz to the honoured brother



May Allah direct you to what pleases Him. Aamin



Salamun alaykum wa rahmatullah wa barakatuhu…



… As for what the magazine, as-Siyasah has published about me quoting from al-Bayan that was written by the writers of at-Tajamu’ at-Taqadumi in Egypt in regards to me denying the landing of man on the moon and me making takfir [to declare a person a disbeliever] of the one who says it or says that the earth is round or rotates - then it is a pure lie; it has no basis of authenticity. And perhaps the one who quoted it did not intend the lie but failed to verify the quote.



My statement is published and distributed and I explained the response to the one who denies the landing of man on the moon and the kufr [disbelief] of one who says it. Furthermore, I clarified that it is an obligation on the one who does not have knowledge to withhold and not to affirm or deny until some knowledge is attained which necessitate affirmation or denial.



Also, I affirm in the statement what I have quoted from the Allamah Ibn al-Qayyim, may Allah have mercy upon him, that which proves the affirmation of the roundness of the earth.



As far as its rotation, then I have denied it and explained the evidences denying it. However, I did not declare kufr upon the one who upholds it. I only declared kufr upon the one who says that the sun is stationary and does not run on a course because this statement collides with the clarity of the Noble Qur’an and the pure authentic Sunnah which both prove that the sun and the moon both run on a course…



Was-Salamu ‘alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu



General Director of the Offices of General Research, Verdicts, Da’wah, and Guidance



(Ibn Baz)



This letter was issued from the office of the noble shaikh with the number: 1/2925 on 7/11/1397.



Source: http://www.ibnbaz.org.sa/Display.asp?f=bz01759

Re: #9 by escapist

AA

Basic sources of authority in Islam Quran, Sunnah, Hadith, Ijma (of Sahaba), Qiyas etc. etc. They vary slightly depending on different schools. You, however, start of w/ a fatwa which is in the wrong order. And of-course different scholars issue different fatwas

So starting off w/ the Quran: There is nothing in the Quran which makes a beard necessary. One may quite reasonably say that as ahadith may contradict one another on the matter. The Holy Prophet (saw) also said ``cleanliness is part of faith``. That may in circumstances require trimming of the beard. It is recorded that Hadhret Ali used to keep his beard short. The Holy Prophet made no objection.

The majority of schools certainly did attest that shaving was forbidden. However, that was in a particular context, in Muslim lands where everybody kept beards. To shave in that circumstance would have been strange and violating a Muslim tradition.

To be different from Magians and Mushrik is firstly in essence and secondly in appearance. Once you have diffrentiated yourself in essence then come to give advice. But if any individual were to reflect on oneself he would never step forward, fearing his mistakes and deficiencies. This is the way of the Sahaba-e-Ikraam and this is why Hadhret Abdullah bin Masood used to tremble whenever he narrated a hadith for fear of making a mistake.

Incidentally I personally believe that having a beard is one of the marks of manhood. But, as the Prophet (saw) taught us you should make religion easy for people. Beware of making what is permitted haram - as this is the way of the Ahl-e-Kitab. The Quran says that such are a people with a camel load of learning but they do not understand it. Do not be similar.

JK

Oak

Re: # 9
On a seriouse note, if beards are compulsory then why wud god create some of us (meaning orientals) with a hereditary disadvantage? why so much emphasis on creating drones when god creates humanity with diversity? this world was created with different colours, sizes, shapes, habits, intellects, traits etc etc, who is mankind to challenge ways of creation?

Re: # 9
Dear escapist, thanku for showing up, monotony is boring.

So this Sh Baaz dude is`nt he the same guy who insisted world is flat?

Re: # 6

Actually, as a true family man, Yasser often is driven by the need to be with us women -Zoya and his mom in addition to me, from the time we walk in to such disasterous events they call weddings-- which we have made a point to reject for the reason that a wedding celebrates a union of equality between a man and a woman, and segregating them is counterintuitive as well as damaging to everything that a marriage stands for- trust, intimacy, joy, sharing...

So anyway, Zoya is often sent to yell for her Baba, and later after my hubby secures himself in a position next to me often descried as ``chipakna``, the great knockon effect leads to many cousins and uncles also joining in to `check on things` and eventually making themselves comfortable next to the women in their lives like little pups.

Such weddings are rare though, mostly in Pakistan weddings are the only time the displays in Liberty market and Zamzama come alive, and what good would they be without men ...As Uncle Nand will attest to the one he attended of my friend Sara, this is a time of little inhibitions, and an overriding happiness...

According to Fatima Mernessi, Pardah Police are often women who are postmenopause and somehow feel that lack of sexual identification makes them androgynous enough to abuse the authority of patriarchy. This unnatual state puts them in a high risk category where they`d be the first to hop on to the waiters if they could get away with it.


Aisha Sarwari

Praise be to Allaah.

On beard..

Shaving the beard is haraam, as is shortening it and reducing it, because of the evidence which shows that it is obligatory to leave it alone and let it grow.

It says in Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah (5/133): Shaving the beard is haraam because of the saheeh ahaadeeth and reports that have been narrated concerning that, and because of the general meaning of the texts that forbid resembling the kuffaar, including the hadeeth of Ibn ‘Umar, which says that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Be different from the mushrikeen; let your beards grow and trim your moustaches.” According to another report: “trim your moustaches and let your beards grow.” And there are other, similar ahaadeeth. Letting the beard grow means leaving it as it is and not shaving it, or plucking or cutting any part of it. Ibn Hazm narrated that there was scholarly consensus that trimming the moustache and letting the beard grow is obligatory, and he quoted as evidence a number of ahaadeeth, including the hadeeth of Ibn ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) quoted above, and the hadeeth of Zayd ibn Arqam, according to which the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever does not trim his moustache is not one of us.” Classed as saheeh by al-Tirmidhi. It says in al-Furoo’: According to our companions – the Hanbalis – this indicates that it is haraam.

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: The Qur’aan, Sunnah and scholarly consensus indicate that we are commanded to be different from the kuffaar and that it is forbidden to resemble them in general terms, because resembling them outwardly may cause us to resemble them in attitude and doing blameworthy deeds and even in beliefs. It generates love and friendship inwardly, just as inward love generates outward resemblance. Al-Tirmidhi narrated that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “He is not one of us who imitates people other than us; do not imitate the Jews and the Christians.” According to another report: “Whoever imitates a people is one of them.” Narrated by Imam Ahmad. And ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab rejected the testimony of a man who plucked his beard.

Imam Ibn ‘Abd al-Barr said in al-Tamheed: It is haraam to shave the beard, and no one does that but effeminate men, meaning those who imitate women. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) had a thick beard, as was narrated by Muslim from Jaabir and in other reports. And it is not permissible to remove anything from it because of the general meaning of the evidence that shows that that is not allowed. End quote.

Shaykh Ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him) was asked: What is the ruling on one who makes the ends of his beard even?

He said: What is required is to leave the beard alone and let it grow, and not to do anything to it, because it is proven that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Trim the moustache and let the beard grow; be different from the mushrikeen.” Saheeh – agreed upon. Narrated from Ibn ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him). And al-Bukhaari (may Allaah have mercy on him) narrated in his Saheeh from Ibn ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Trim the moustache and let the beard grow; be different from the mushrikeen.” Muslim narrated in his Saheeh from Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Cut the moustache and let the beard grow; be different from the Magians.”

All these ahaadeeth indicate that it is obligatory to leave the beard alone and let it grow, and to trim the moustache. This is what is prescribed in Islam, and this is what is obligatory, as taught and enjoined by the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). This is following the example of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and his companions (may Allaah be pleased with them), and differing from the mushrikeen, and avoiding resembling them or resembling women.

With regard to the report narrated by al-Tirmidhi (may Allaah have mercy on him) which says that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) used to remove something from the length and breadth of his beard, this is a false report according to the scholars, and it is not a saheeh report from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). Some people insisted on using this hadeeth as evidence, but it is not a saheeh report, because its isnaad includes ‘Umar ibn Haroon al-Balkhi, who is accused of lying.

So it is not permissible for a believer to follow this false hadeeth, or to use as a concession that which was said by some scholars, for the Sunnah is binding upon us all, and Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“He who obeys the Messenger (Muhammad), has indeed obeyed Allaah”

[al-Nisa’ 4:80]

“Say: Obey Allaah and obey the Messenger, but if you turn away, he (Messenger Muhammad) is only responsible for the duty placed on him (i.e. to convey Allaah’s Message) and you for that placed on you. If you obey him, you shall be on the right guidance. The Messenger’s duty is only to convey (the message) in a clear way (i.e. to preach in a plain way)”

[al-Noor 24:54]

“O you who believe! Obey Allaah and obey the Messenger (Muhammad), and those of you (Muslims) who are in authority. (And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allaah and His Messenger, if you believe in Allaah and in the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for final determination”

[al-Nisa’ 4:59]

And Allaah is the Source of strength. End quote from Majmoo’ Fataawa al-Shaykh ibn Baaz (4/443).

“So keep your duty to Allaah and fear Him as much as you can”

[al-Taghaabun 64:16]

purdah police is about power........it is about arbitrary display of power where every individual becomes an interpretor of every one`s action and has the ability to deliver punishment arbitrarily..............it is about bullying..........that is what spoilt child does............it is a reflection of anarchy in a society

Dear writer,
nice reading, sure wud like to see some contrary opinions this is becoming boring.

Re: # 5

Hey, doesn`t Aisha mind? :)

A brilliant critique of the Mullahs in society. A mullah is the erstwhile sword of damocles on every Muslim`s head. I`ve on occasion attended a few ``segregated`` weddings here and there... but always ended up non-segregating it ... by shifting to the women`s side after a a while.

a different topic, but the same thread of fundamentalism versus reason. You can`t let an untouchable woman touch your shadow. But you can rape her.

It is truly a shame that still for some people Islam begins from the beard of a man and ends on the Purdah of a woman.

hahaha....a comical look at the farcical islam being practiced in society these days.

i agree its quite outrageus and unacceptable....but thanks for keeping it so humorous :)

Absolutely right!
These English speaking ex-playboy dari walahs with cute non purdah observing daughters and old purdah observing wives once used to be an endangered species. Now they show up in abundance.

I once had a fruitful argument with one such uncle about the significance of facial hair in Islam. He called it sunnat and I countered it with the argument that the prophet (PBUH) didn’t have access to good shaving equipment. He got furious so I asked him if he was such a dedicated follower of the prophet why doesn’t he get rid of his Honda and Prado and get a camel for travel purpose. Obviously he didn’t have the answers. So I am a labeled Kafir and Munkir but I couldn’t care less.

Every time I visit back home I find out that a couple of my friends have turned into dari walahs. My question to them is always the same. Bhai 100 choohey poorey ho gaye kya?

I pray that Allah keeps us away from the wrath of dari brigade.