The Gap: Can the USA and Islam Bridge It?

Yeah... Bush is the evil person ... Ahmedinajad is the savior of the world.
Lunatic ramblings .....not surprisingly admired by
some fanatic loonatics.

Let us talk about Darfur where people of
the religion of pece is indulging in some glorious Islamic
activities...............
The picture fits well with how Islamists live peacefully
with Paris Christians, Thai Buddhists, Hindoos, Jews, Atheists,
and just above every one else under the sun.


http://www.darfurgenocide.org/


The Sudanese Government, using Arab ``Janjaweed`` militias, its air force, and organized starvation, is systematically killing the black Sudanese of Darfur.

The picture of the boy killed (left) shows what is happening in Darfur. Over two and a half million people, driven from their homes, now face death from starvation and disease as the Government and militias attempt to prevent humanitarian aid from reaching them. The same forces have destroyed the people of Darfur`s villages and crops, and poisoned their water supplies, and they continue to murder, rape and terrorize.

This site`s sole purpose is to try to save lives by helping stop the genocide in Darfur.

It empowers you to take smart, strategic actions to compel those in power to act through international petitions or local events. It provides access to the best, most relevant and most upto date information available. You can also give online to our Advocacy Fund.

The situation in Darfur is dire............

Like the California group Ahmedinejad has no clue about how things work in the US and its political establishment. Here, economic forces much more than any religious motivation drives decisions and keeps them uniform. He is living in his dream world and using rhetoric that serves as fuel for these sob US elite criminals to justify their many perversions. He, just like them, is a criminal who is not thinking about how his fantasy worldview and these infantile letters will affect the millions in Iran who are going to suffer because he is dumb enough not to know the real world situation and the motivations that are now targeting Iran. Like UBL he feels he is sitting in a command position (on the starship enterprise) negotiating peace treaties and getting ready to fire photon torpedoes on immoral enemies. In that process he does not care about the over 68 million lives that might be affected. He is buying into what the US considers important, while forgetting about his people at home. F, all of what the US elite considers important. That is not at all important to the masses in the world.

Yeah, Bush the damn criminal, is going to read Ahmedinejad`s letter and say Allahu akbar and repent and close down the shop that the corporations have set up in America`s political arena. Mashallah what foresight this ``leader`` has been blessed with. When such infants represent the Muslim world what results can we expect? Disgraceful naivety that does little to benefit the millions that he rules over

Text of Iranian Ahmadinejad`s letter to Bush

Wednesday, May10 , 2006 - © 2005IranMania.com


LONDON, May 10 (IranMania) - Iran`s Foreign Ministry said it was waiting for a response from US President George W Bush to a surprise letter sent by the Islamic republic`s hardline President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, AFP reported.

Here is the text of the letter, obtained by AFP.

Mr. George Bush,

President of the United States of America

For sometime now I have been thinking, how one can justify the undeniable contradictions that exist in the international arena, which are being constantly debated, especially in political forums and amongst university students. Many questions remain unanswered. These have prompted me to discuss some of the contradictions and questions, in the hopes that it might bring about an opportunity to redress them.

Can one be a follower of Jesus Christ (PBUH), the great Messenger of God,

Feel obliged to respect human rights,

Present liberalism as a civilization model,

Announce one`s opposition to the proliferation of nuclear weapons and WMDs,

Make ``War and Terror`` his slogan,

And finally,

Work towards the establishment of a unified international community, a community which Christ and the virtuous of the Earth will one day govern,

But at the same time,

Have countries attacked. The lives, reputations and possessions of people destroyed and on the slight chance of the presence of a few criminals in a village, city or convoy for example, the entire village, city or convoy set ablaze.

Or because of the possibility of the existence of WMDs in one country, it is occupied, around one hundred thousand people killed, its water sources, agriculture and industry destroyed, close to180 , 000foreign troops put on the ground, sanctity of private homes of citizens broken, and the country pushed back perhaps fifty years. At what price? Hundreds of billions of dollars spent from the treasury of one country and certain other countries and tens of thousands of young men and women, as occupation troops, put in harms way, taken away from family and loved ones, their hands stained with the blood of others, subjected to so much psychological pressure that everyday some commit suicide and those returning home suffer depression, become sickly and grapple with all sorts of aliments; while some are killed and their bodies handed to their families.

On the pretext of the existence of WMDs, this great tragedy came to engulf both the peoples of the occupied and the occupying country. Later it was revealed that no WMDs existed to begin with.

Of course Saddam was a murderous dictator. But the war was not waged to topple him, the announced goal of the war was to find and destroy weapons of mass destruction. He was toppled along the way towards another goal; nevertheless the people of the region are happy about it. I point out that throughout the many years of the imposed war on Iran Saddam was supported by the West.

Mr. President,

You might know that I am a teacher. My students ask me how can theses actions be reconciled with the values outlined at the beginning of this letter and duty to the tradition of Jesus Christ (PBUH), the Messenger of peace and forgiveness?

There are prisoners in Guantanamo Bay that have not been tried, have no legal representation, their families cannot see them and are obviously kept in a strange land outside their own country. There is no international monitoring of their conditions and fate. No one knows whether they are prisoners, POWs, accused or criminals.

European investigators have confirmed the existence of secret prisons in Europe too. I could not correlate the abduction of a person, and him or her being kept in secret prisons, with the provisions of any judicial system. For that matter, I fail to understand how such actions correspond to the values outlined in the beginning of this letter, i.e. the teachings of Jesus Christ (PBUH), human rights and liberal values.

Young people, university students, and ordinary people have many questions about the phenomenon of Israel. I am sure you are familiar with some of them.

Throughout history many countries have been occupied, but I think the establishment of a new country with a new people, is a new phenomenon that is exclusive to our times.

Students are saying that sixty years ago such a country did not exist. They show old documents and globes and say try as we have, we have not been able to find a country named Israel.

I tell them to study the history of WWI and II. One of my students told me that during WWII, which more than tens of millions of people perished in, news about the war, was quickly disseminated by the warring parties. Each touted their victories and the most recent battlefront defeat of the other party. After the war they claimed that six million Jews had been killed. Six million people that were surely related to at least two million families.

Again let us assume that these events are true. Does that logically translate into the establishment of the state of Israel in the Middle East or support for such a state? How can this phenomenon be rationalized or explained?

Mr. President,

I am sure you know how, and at what cost, Israel was established:

- Many thousands were killed in the process.

- Millions of indigenous people were made refugees.

- Hundreds of thousands of hectares of farmland, olive plantations, towns and villages were destroyed.

This tragedy is not exclusive to the time of establishment; unfortunately it has been ongoing for sixty years now. A regime has been established which does not show mercy even to kids, destroys houses while the occupants are still in them, announces beforehand its list and plans to assassinate Palestinian figures, and keeps thousands of Palestinians in prison. Such a phenomenon is unique, or at the very least extremely rare, in recent memory.

Another big question asked by the people is ``why is this regime being supported?`` Is support for this regime in line with the teachings of Jesus Christ (PBUH) or Moses (PBUH) or liberal values? Or are we to understand that allowing the original inhabitants of these lands, inside and outside Palestine, whether they are Christian, Muslim or Jew, to determine their fate, runs contrary to principles of democracy, human rights and the teachings of prophets? If not, why is there so much opposition to a referendum?

The newly elected Palestinian administration recently took office. All independent (observers) have confirmed that this government represents the electorate. Unbelievingly, they have put the elected government under pressure and have advised it to recognize the Israeli regime, abandon the struggle and follow the programs of the previous government.

If the current Palestinian government had run on the above platform, would the Palestinian people have voted for it? Again, can such position taken in opposition to the Palestinian government be reconciled with the values outlined earlier? The people are also saying ``why are all UNSC (UN Security Council) resolutions in condemnation of Israel vetoed?``

Mr. President,

As you are well aware, I live amongst the people and am in constant contact with them, many people from around the Middle East manage to contact me as well. They do not have faith in these dubious policies either. There is evidence that the people of the region are becoming increasingly angry with such policies.

It is not my intention to pose too many questions, but I need to refer to other points as well.

Why is it that any technological and scientific achievement reached in the Middle East region is translated into and portrayed as a threat to the Zionist regime? Is not scientific R and D one of the basic rights of nations?

You are familiar with history. Aside from the Middle Ages, in what other point in history has scientific and technical progress been a crime? Can the possibility of scientific achievements being utilized for military purposes be reason enough to oppose science and technology altogether? If such a supposition is true, then all scientific disciplines, including physics, chemistry, mathematics, medicine, engineering, etc. must be opposed.

Lies were told in the Iraqi matter. What was the result? I have no doubt that telling lies is reprehensible in any culture, and you do not like to be lied to.

Mr. President,

Don`t Latin Americans have the right to ask why their elected governments are being opposed and coup leaders supported? Or, Why must they constantly be threatened and live in fear?

The people of Africa are hardworking, creative and talented. They can play an important and valuable role in providing for the needs of humanity and contribute to its material and spiritual progress. Poverty and hardship in large parts of Africa are preventing this from happening. Don`t they have the right to ask why their enormous wealth, including minerals, is being looted, despite the fact that they need it more than others?

Again, do such actions correspond to the teachings of Christ and the tenets of human rights?

The brave and faithful people of Iran too have many questions and grievances, including: the coup d`etat of 1953 and the subsequent toppling of the legal government of the day, opposition to the Islamic revolution, transformation of an Embassy into a headquarters supporting, the activities of those opposing the Islamic Republic (many thousands of pages of documents corroborate this claim), support for Saddam in the war waged against Iran, the shooting down of the Iranian passenger plane, freezing the assets of the Iranian nation, increasing threats, anger and displeasure vis-a-vis the scientific and nuclear progress of the Iranian nation (just when all Iranians are jubilant and celebrating their country`s progress), and many other grievances that I will not refer to in this letter.

Mr. President,

September Eleven was a horrendous incident. The killing of innocents is deplorable and appalling in any part of the world. Our government immediately declared its disgust with the perpetrators and offered its condolences to the bereaved and expressed its sympathies.

All governments have a duty to protect the lives, property and good standing of their citizens. Reportedly your government employs extensive security, protection and intelligence systems, and even hunts its opponents abroad. September Eleven was not a simple operation. Could it be planned and executed without coordination with intelligence and security services, or their extensive infiltration? Of course this is just an educated guess. Why

have the various aspects of the attacks been kept secret? Why are we not told who botched their responsibilities? And, why aren`t those responsible and the guilty parties identified and put on trial?

All governments have a duty to provide security and peace of mind for their citizens. For some years now, the people of your country and neighbors of world trouble spots do not have peace of mind. After9 /11, instead of healing and tending to the emotional wounds of the survivors and the American people, who had been immensely traumatized by the attacks, some Western media only intensified the climates of fear and insecurity, some constantly talked about the possibility of new terror attacks and kept the people in fear. Is that service to the American people? Is it possible to calculate the damages incurred from fear and panic?

American citizens lived in constant fear of fresh attacks that could come at any moment and in any place. They felt insecure in the streets, in their place of work and at home. Who would be happy with this situation? Why was the media, instead of conveying a feeling of security and providing peace of mind, giving rise to a feeling of insecurity?

Some believe that the hype paved the way, and was the justification, for an attack on Afghanistan. Again I need to refer to the role of media. In media charters, correct dissemination of information and honest reporting of a story are established tenets. I express my deep regret about the disregard shown by certain Western media for these principles. The main pretext for an attack on Iraq was the existence of WMDs. This was repeated incessantly, for the public to finally believe, and the ground set for an attack on Iraq.

Will the truth not be lost in a contrived and deceptive climate? Again, if the truth is allowed to be lost, how can that be reconciled with the earlier mentioned values? Is the truth known to the Almighty lost as well?

Mr. President,

In countries around the world, citizens provide for the expenses of governments so that their governments in turn are able to serve them.

The question here is ``what has the hundreds of billions of dollars, spent every year to pay for the Iraqi campaign, produced for the citizens?``

As your Excellency is aware, in some states of your country, people are living in poverty. Many thousands are homeless and unemployment is a huge problem. Of course these problems exist, to a larger or lesser extent, in other countries as well. With these conditions in mind, can the gargantuan

expenses of the campaign, paid from the public treasury, be explained and be consistent with the aforementioned principles?

What has been said are some of the grievances of the people around the world, in our region and in your country. But my main contention, which I am hoping you will agree to some of it, is:

Those in power have a specific time in office and do not rule indefinitely, but their names will be recorded in history and will be constantly judged in the immediate and distant futures.

The people will scrutinize our presidencies. Did we (manage) to bring peace, security and prosperity for the people or insecurity and unemployment?

Did we intend to establish justice or just supported (special) interest groups, and by forcing many people to live in poverty and hardship, made a few people rich and powerful -- thus trading the approval of the people and the Almighty with theirs? Did we defend the rights of the underprivileged or

ignore them? Did we defend the rights of all people around the world or imposed wars on them, interfered illegally in their affairs, established hellish prisons and incarcerated some of them? Did we bring the world peace and security or raised the specter of intimidation and threats? Did we tell the truth to our nation and others around the world or presented an inverted version of it? Were we on the side of people or the occupiers and

oppressors? Did our administrations set out to promote rational behavior, logic, ethics, peace, fulfilling obligations, justice, service to the people, prosperity, progress and respect for human dignity or the force of guns, Intimidation, insecurity, disregard for the people, delaying the progress and excellence of other nations, and trample on people`s rights? And finally, they will judge us on whether we remained true to our oath of office, to serve the people, which is our main task, and the traditions of the prophets, or not?

Mr. President,

How much longer can the world tolerate this situation? Where will this trend lead the world to? How long must the people of the world pay for the incorrect decisions of some rulers? How much longer will the specter of insecurity -- raised from the stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction, hunt the people of the world? How much longer will the blood of the innocent men, women and children be spilled on the streets, and people`s houses

destroyed over their heads? Are you pleased with the current condition of the world? Do you think present policies can continue?

If billions of dollars spent on security, military campaigns and troop movement were instead spent on investment and assistance for poor countries, promotion of health, combating different diseases, education and improvement of mental and physical fitness, assistance to the victims of natural disasters, creation of employment opportunities and production, development projects and poverty alleviation, establishment of peace, mediation between disputing states, and distinguishing the flames of racial, ethnic and other conflicts, (where) would the world be today? Would not your government and people be justifiably proud? Would not your administration`s political and economic standing have been stronger? And I am most sorry to say, would there have been an ever increasing global hatred of the American government?

Mr. President, it is not my intention to distress anyone.

If Prophet Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Ishmael, Joseph, or Jesus Christ (PBUH) were with us today, how would they have judged such behavior? Will we be given a role to play in the promised world, where justice will become universal and Jesus Christ (PBUH) will be present? Will they even accept us?

My basic question is this: Is there no better way to interact with the rest of the world? Today there are hundreds of millions of Christians, hundreds of millions of Moslems and millions of people who follow the teachings of Moses (PBUH). All divine religions share and respect one word and that is ``monotheism`` or belief in a single God and no other in the world.

The Holy Koran stresses this common word and calls on all followers of divine religions and says: (3.64) Say: O followers of the Book! Come to an equitable proposition between us and you that we shall not serve any but Allah and (that) we shall not associate aught with Him and (that) some of us shall not take others for lords besides Allah; but if they turn back, then say: Bear witness that we are Muslims. (The Family of Imran)

Mr. President,

According to divine verses, we have all been called upon to worship one God and follow the teachings of divine Prophets. ``To worship a God which is above all powers in the world and can do all He pleases.`` ``The Lord which knows that which is hidden and visible, the past and the future, knows what goes on in the Hearts of His servants and records their deeds.`` ``The Lord who is the possessor of the heavens and the earth and all universe is His court`` ``Planning for the universe is done by His hands, and gives His servants the glad tidings of mercy and forgiveness of sins`` ``He is the

companion of the oppressed and the enemy of oppressors`` ``He is the Compassionate, the Merciful`` ``He is the recourse of the faithful and guides them towards the light from darkness`` ``He is witness to the actions of His servants`` ``He calls on servants to be faithful and do good deeds, and asks them to stay on the path of righteousness and remain steadfast`` ``Calls on servants to heed His prophets and He is a witness to their deeds`` ``A bad ending belongs only to those who have chosen the life of this world and disobey Him and oppress His servants`` and ``A good end and eternal paradise belong to those servants who fear His majesty and do not follow their lascivious selves.``

We believe a return to the teachings of the divine prophets is the only road leading to salvation. I have been told that Your Excellency follows the teachings of Jesus (PBUH) and believes in the divine promise of the rule of the righteous on Earth.

We also believe that Jesus Christ (PBUH) was one of the great prophets of the Almighty. He has been repeatedly praised in the Koran. Jesus (PBUH) has been quoted in Koran as well: (19.36) And surely Allah is my Lord and your Lord, therefore serve Him; this is the right path. MariumService to and obedience of the Almighty is the credo of all divine messengers.

The God of all people in Europe, Asia, Africa, America, the Pacific and the rest of the world is one. He is the Almighty who wants to guide and give dignity to all His servants. He has given greatness to Humans.

We again read in the Holy Book: ``The Almighty God sent His prophets with miracles and clear signs to guide the people and show them divine signs and purify them from sins and pollutions. And He sent the Book and the balance so that the people display justice and avoid the rebellious.``

All of the above verses can be seen, one way or the other, in the Good Book as well. Divine prophets have promised: The day will come when all humans will congregate before the court of the Almighty, so that their deeds are examined. The good will be directed towards (Heaven) and evildoers will meet divine retribution. I trust both of us believe in such a day, but it will not be easy to calculate the actions of rulers, because we must be answerable to our nations and all others whose lives have been directly or indirectly affected by our actions.

All prophets speak of peace and tranquility for man -- based on monotheism, justice and respect for human dignity.

Do you not think that if all of us come to believe in and abide by these principles, that is, monotheism, worship of God, justice, respect for the dignity of man, belief in the Last Day, we can overcome the present problems of the world, that are the result of disobedience to the Almighty and the teachings of prophets, and improve our performance?

Do you not think that belief in these principles promotes and guarantees peace, friendship and justice?

Do you not think that the aforementioned written or unwritten principles are universally respected?

Will you not accept this invitation? That is, a genuine return to the teachings of prophets, to monotheism and justice, to preserve human dignity and obedience to the Almighty and His prophets?

Mr. President,

History tells us that repressive and cruel governments do not survive. God has entrusted the fate of men to them. The Almighty has not left the universe and humanity to their own devices. Many things have happened contrary to the wishes and plans of governments. These tell us that there is a higher power at work and all events are determined by Him.

Can one deny the signs of change in the world today? Is the situation of the world today comparable to that of ten years ago? Changes happen fast and come at a furious pace.

The people of the world are not happy with the status quo and pay little heed to the promises and comments made by a number of influential world leaders. Many people around the world feel insecure and oppose the spreading of insecurity and war and do not approve of and accept dubious policies.

The people are protesting the increasing gap between the haves and the have-nots and the rich and poor countries.

The people are disgusted with increasing corruption.

The people of many countries are angry about the attacks on their cultural foundations and the disintegration of families. They are equally dismayed with the fading of care and compassion. The people of the world have no faith in international organizations, because their rights are not advocated by these organizations.

Liberalism and Western style democracy have not been able to help realize the ideals of humanity. Today these two concepts have failed. Those with insight can already hear the sounds of the shattering and fall of the ideology and thoughts of the Liberal democratic systems.

We increasingly see that people around the world are flocking towards a main focal point -- that is the Almighty God. Undoubtedly through faith in God and the teachings of the prophets, the people will conquer their problems. My question for you is: ``Do you not want to join them?``

Mr. President,

Whether we like it or not, the world is gravitating towards faith in the Almighty and justice and the will of God will prevail over all things.


Vasalam Ala Man Ataba`al hoda

Mahmood Ahmadi-Nejad

President of the Islamic Republic of Iran

Masadi #99 {``The highlight of his miserable daily existance is gazing at women while he sips his latte. That is it, can you possibly not feel pity for that fool. ``}

Asadi Sahib,
Rather than pity the old fool, I am envious of him. Also, I resent him for his selfishness in debauchery. If it was just latte that he sipped, I would forgive him, but would you believe that he drinks alcohol while doing the haram gaze? I am the one who gazes in misery at all the people enjoying their booze while i am stuck with the cappuccino, :(

RE# 87 RAS
{{{{..... His remark on India was not off the mark.

Pakistan is just as bad}}}}}}

PAKISTAN IS JUST AS BAD?

We should have discussions here in true democratic spirit. But the above HUMBUG/HYPOCRITICAL statment of the author should not go unchallenged.
I`ll have to repost one of my earlier postings:

Such hypocrisy can be given a modicum of respect if following were the case:


(1) Pakistan`s constituition declares that all human beings are
equal citizens under the constituition

(2) Evidence on the ground that Pakistan is struggling or
has been trying to implement such a constituition as India has been trying

(3)If there had been efforts to have a 14% Hindu population in
present day Pakistan

(4)If they appoint a Hindu as a President or PM for propaganda
sake (as they consider our election of Muslim presidents)

(5) If they do anything remotely positive to allow the Indian muslims to
live peacefully with their neighbours...

the list is long......

Salim_Chauhan writes

<<< Hamidum Sahib,
While we are eye to eye, cheek to cheek, and shoulder to shoulder on this subject of ISNA/ICNA/CHICKNA/MSA/ALKayda/TallyBan/ISI/MSA/CAIR/LeT/SeS/JUI/JI/MMA, please acknowledge Mr. Masadi as also being totally out of synchronization with this group of self-promoting, self-righteous, trumpet blowers. >>>

Hamidm knows it but he repeats falsehood because he does not care about the truth. Bigots and hate mongers, supporters of tyranny act in this dishonest fashion regardless of the facts. I`m sure you know that about people like that dumb A.H hamidm. The highlight of his miserable dialy existance is gazing at women while he sips his latte. That is it, can you possibly not feel pity for that fool.

Ras:

The gap you are talking about U.S. and Islam, exists for almost all ethnicities, and among divisions within the main line. There was a time even jewish Americans suffered from it.

The challege for Islamic communitiy as I see, is to equally, if not more forcefully, counter bad news in the main media with the good side too. For example, whenever there is a bad new report.... Muslim Americans must demand equal opportunity to speak out and send their message of what good muslims are doing for non-muslims in today`s world. Obviously the alternative message cannot be recitation of Quran. I am confident there enough Muslims to articulate such message and effectively use the equal time to speak out. You can indeed be one such person.

Anil



Anil

Inquirer #93 {``Re: # 77 Salim Sahab: I did not say any word about the why of vivisection. I only documented the fact that inspite of the partition, irrespective of who did it, the Hindus gave Muslims equal right of vote which still does not exist for Hindus in Pakistan.``}

Inquirer mere bhai,
The Government of Pakistan has been extremely fair in its denial of the right to vote. Neither Muslim nor any other religious element has the right to vote. I don`t think that India and the Hindus have a prayer`s chance in hell to match this unblemished record. Thanks.

#76 Hamidm2 writes:

<<< masadi,

..... you might reject your brothers of a slightly different feather but your ``stand on the Quran as the only authority on Islam`` puts you in the same flock of america-haters ..... your cockamamie denials do not improve your credibility >>>

Once again this idiot does not have a clue about issues and absurdities flow as freely from his dung infested mouth as industrial waste in this capitalist heaven.

Accepting the Quran as the only authority on Islam is a fact of history and has nothing to do with hating or loving America. His conclusion is so far detached from his permise that to claim a non sequitur on my part would be a disgrace to all non sequiturs. Further, I am not trying to state facts and what I accept to ``improve my credibility``. I care less what A.Hs like him or any one else thinks about me or what I accept or believe. He knows that my condemnation is directed at the barbarous elite that are ruining the world and not the American people yet he keeps equating that with ``hating America``. If America = US elite then yes I hate America and I will never back off from hating it until these elite change their policies. But America is not defined by its elite, a nation is defined by its people and those people in America are the victims of this same elite. If I hated them, I wouldn`t care less what these elite are doing to them or the rest of the world.

When you know something but keep repeating it so that you can increase the frequency with which you plant your lips firmly on the A$$ of the U.S. elite while having no concern for truth or fact or justice, the title that adequatly define your kind (of pathetic losers) are A.H.

Reality has a well-known anti-islam/anti-Pakistan bias

Educated Muslims found to have supported September 11 attacks

By Khalid Hasan

WASHINGTON: A Gallop poll survey of eight Muslim countries has shown that those who applauded the 9/11 attacks tended to be better educated and more affluent. They were not necessarily more religious that other Muslims. The poll found that those who regularly attended the mosque were no more likely to back terrorism than those who did not. This also held true of Muslims who believed religion to be important in daily life. According to a Washington Post report, about 25 percent of all Muslims with a higher-than-average income supported the 9/11 attacks, more than the less affluent and the poor Muslims did. Among high school or college graduates, 44 percent held extremist views, compared with 38 percent of less educated Muslims. The unemployed were no more likely to back terrorism than those who worked full time. Extremists were only half as likely as moderates to believe that the US would allow people in the Middle East to fashion their own political future.

Re: # 79: Please define Hindu liberals.

Re: # 77 Salim Sahab: I did not say any word about the why of vivisection. I only documented the fact that inspite of the partition, irrespective of who did it, the Hindus gave Muslims equal right of vote which still does not exist for Hindus in Pakistan.

as Ghalib would most likely say:

jisko ho nusl-o-deen aziz -- Western gulee meiN jaye keoN.....

#89 kaalchakra

Fair enough, yes, I should have read the link I provided more carefully :-)

Agreed, this guy is more like a sophisticated fanatic than a middle-of-the road proud muslim.

Ras #87 {``(have not run into CHICKNA Salim_Chauhan (or have I?)...
...There are of course some exceptions that you will run into now and then.
but overall, post 9/11 America is a different landscape. America no longer needs fanatics to counter the bad communists. It needs to contain what it it had a hand in creating.:}

Ras Sahib,
By CHICKNA I am referring to those slippery organizations such as ISNA, CAIR, AMC, and others who never seem to get caught or held accountable for their previous mistakes. They simply do a 180 and start the very mantra that they had been fighting with Islamic zest just a while back.

I agree with your statement about America`s hand in creating the fanatics. Islam has always been for sale by Muslims themselves. The very fanatics that America ``needs to contain`` are the born-again liberals in ISNA, CAIR, and AMC, and other outfits that almost propose secularism. Let`s count the instances where Islam has been used for immoral purposes and has resulted in huge losses of innocent lives:

1. Islamic fanatics killed hundreds of thousands of Chinese ``communists`` in Indonesia under Sukarno.
2. Islamic fanatics killed thousands of Muslim people in Afghanistan - fighting the Soviets and then fighting each other after the Soviets were defeated.
3. Islamic Sunni Wahabbi fanatics are killing thousands of Muslim Shias in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan.
4. Islamic Sunni fanatics have killed hundreds of thousands and displaced millions of Muslims and Christians in Sudan.
5. Islamic fanatics killed thousands in the WTC and Pentagon terrorist attacks - did they ask their brothers in ISNA, ICNA, and MSA whether such an ``Islamic`` act would be advisable and what would be the position of their ``brothers`` in America after such an attack?
6. Islamic terrorists have killed thousands of Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs, and Christians in Kashmir, Delhi, Banares, Banglore, and elsewhere in India. These murderous acts have permanently erased any residual sympathy for the cause of Kashmiri ``freedom.``
7. Islamic terrorists have killed hundreds of Muslims and European tourists in Egypt, Jordan, Morocco, and Saudi Arabia to demonstrate the evils of modernity, tourism, and progress.
8. Islamic terrorists have killed thousands of Muslims in Algeria just because they were cheated out of an election victory by the military government.
9. Islamic terrorists have killed hundreds in the Philippines in a totally confusing picture of jihad, robbery, kidnapping, and looting.
10. Islamic terrorists have made a nuisance of themselves with their civil wars, violence against children, and totally confusing murderous assaults in Chechnya - almost no one cares about Chechen independence anymore.
11. Hamas, with their suicide vests and martyr`s brigades, have made a mockery of the Palestinians` struggle for independence.

The point of all this is that ISNA, ICNA, MSA, and CAIR do not speak out against these self-defeating violent people. In fact, before 9/11, these same people were stealing from Zakat boxes to fund terrorism. Why is it so obvious to me and not to all these people? The first place to start is to expose, arrest, disarm, disband, and eradicate these violent enemies of real Islam - something that the so-called liberal and ``recently modernized`` Muslims have consistently refused to do. Thanks.

pMishra2

In terms of total destructive powers, no man or woman is more dangerous than the one who argues that ``the maqasid (objectives) of the Sharia is to establish social justice, equality, tolerance, and freedom of religion in societies`` and, at the same time, pretends to be civilized.

In comparison, the poor sod who blows blows himself up in the marketplace, killing innocent men, women, and children is a sufi saint.

There is nothing soft about Muqtedar Khan.