The Gap: Can the USA and Islam Bridge It?

Re: # 149

{{{{{{American Muslims may be needed to help in the peacemaking...}}}]

LOL. Muslims are needed every where for peace making! You know why..........


Couple of more ideas for bridging the GAPS:



-- Fly airplanes into buildings ... slit throats of sleeping villagers.... come on TV
and say until all ``political`` disputes are solved such Islamic activities will continue....


....Gaurantee second class, third class citizenship to Kafirs in ur benevolent, tolerant PBUH Islamic Republics , demand special rights (not equal, but special) when you are a minority living in secular democracies...............

# 12 by dost-mittar

Oh these ‘Thekedars of religions’! (May be called TOR). It is these TORs who are creating all kinds of gaps. They create gap between God and man and even man and man, categorizing them as believers and non-believers, Muslims and Kafirs, mawaahids (monotheists) and mushriks (polytheists), Muqallids and non-Muqallids (followers and non-followers of a paricular ‘Fiqa’), etc., etc. They are by nature divisive. The great Urdu poet Allama Iqbal had said about them, “Deene Mullah fi sabilillah fassaad” (Mullah’s religion is to create violent dissensions among human beings in the name of Allah). What hullabaloo these TORs raised in the Pakiland recently against Germany on the death of Aamir Cheema, called ‘Aashiqe Rasool’ by them, in a jail in Germany, without realising what negative reaction it would entail for the Muslim immigrants in general and particularly for the Paky Muslims who are already under lot of pressure due to the extremist Mullah-gardi as reported in the following excerpt from a column in the Daily Times of Pakistan:

“Columnist Nazeer Naji wrote in Jang (16 March 2006) that all countries of the EU were making changes in their immigration laws to make the entry of Muslims into Europe virtually impossible. Also new laws were on the anvil to keep an eye on the private activities of the Muslims already resident in the EU.

There may soon come a time when EU will not allow any Muslim to visit Europe and no European would want to visit Pakistan. Extremism on the roads of Pakistan therefore should be avoided. Most Pakistanis who were not given to extremism must secure the true spirit of Islam against the extremism and violence of a few among them.

Extremism among expatriate Pakistanis is rising in complete disregard of the legal and constitutional action Europe can take against them. People break all sorts of barriers to get to Europe, then adopt extremist conduct as a way of life.”

(Daily Times, 12.5.06)

#148 Chauhan

[You are giving all us Biharis a bad name.]

Sorry if that is the case - although I doubt it. But I explained my reasons in #146. (My links to Bihar are rather outdated, anyway.)

Yet, the truth is that every immigrant is a ``Bihari`` in some ways! I am astounded that the people here - mostly whose butts are parked in Western lands - fail to see that obvious fact.

I will hold off on the expletive that just came to mind!

I think that there is a Gap that needs to be bridged

but how to go about doing it better than it is being done

needs further discussion.

Wars overseas are no longer an answer or the best option today.

Let us all go back to the table and strart talking.

Something good just may eventually come out of it.

And American Muslims may be needed to help in the peacemaking.

Ras

#144, BJ,
You are giving all us Biharis a bad name. :)

The gap IS getting bridged!
Verryy Interesting.
A piece about three stories from prisoners in Guantanamo Bay alleges that American guards at the detention facility have been demonstrating respect for Usama bin Laden, converting to Islam, and being threatened with deployment to Iraq for this conversion. Also, another article, “What Benefit?,” openly questions what good can come of Hamas as a government administration, and for Islamic parties joining government, in general. It states: “Throughout the history of Islam, there were many sects, groups, men and peoples whose aim was to help religion, and they might have been devout to Allah almighty in this desire… Yet they did not achieve what they sought because the path that they followed does not help religion”.

Complete report.

#145 Burps

I honestly think that this whole ``respect`` and ``politeness`` crap is overblown and is simply the first step in chowk`s devious mind control technique - the old technique has been used for ages in the subcontinent for ages, and is at the root of most of its problems.

It stifles individuality, kills creativity and creates a bunch of nincompoop morons, who are only capable of...

only capable of....

poop, of course!

Re: # 143

I spoke to soon. Here comes the beejmobile.

#143

Sure, keep kissing ass! It can only keep getting politer!

No need to specify whose!

As I said elsewhere - SCREW the respect!

Burpy #141 {``After a long time, an article on chowk where the quality of interacts is high. Good show!``}

Burpy,
We do agree on something. I too have noticed how much more interesting and polite Chowk has become recently. Let`s hope the trend continues.

The gap IS being bridged: and the secualroo liberaloo are getting crushed and squeezed..
alhamdolillah!

Preaching Islam In America

SACRAMENTO, Calif., April 12, 2006

---

Imam Mohammed Azeez is trying to change Americans` perception of Islam. (CBS)

(CBS) Islam is the fastest-growing religions in the United States. John Blackstone reports on a man who`s out to change the way others see Muslims.

At the Salam mosque in Sacramento, Calif, the call to prayer echoes with tradition. But the leader of the mosque is anything but traditional. Imam Mohammed Azeez delivers his Friday sermon while his 2½-year-old daughter darts among the worshipers. He prays five times a day – prompted by a high-tech reminder: his BlackBerry.

Azeez is young for an imam — he`s only 30. He came from Egypt six years ago and graduated from Ohio State University. His daughter was born here. His wife, Kauther, seems no less modern. She wears jeans with her headscarf. ``The fashion changes, you know,`` she says with a laugh.

But a lot has changed since Sept. 11, 2001. The imam now worries about his wife. ``She was called a `raghead` at one point,`` he says. Azeez is also afraid that little Zeyneb could be a target of intolerance. ``I`m scared to let my kid play outside for fear of any person or attacker,`` he says.

But Azeez`s answer is not to hide out — it`s to speak out. He goes to interfaith gatherings to try to build bridges across chasms of misunderstanding.

``Almost everyone in the Middle East things that America is on a crusade to Christianize the Muslim world,`` he said at one such recent gathering. ``I hope that`s not the case, but that`s what they say.``

What he says is that keeping this country safe from terrorists should be as much a priority for American Muslims as anybody else.

``I want to carry a gun and stand at the border and protect the border myself,`` he says, ``because I am the first person to be impacted.``

The challenge facing Imam Azeez is reflected in a new CBS News poll that shows fewer than one in five Americans has a favorable view of Islam. Azeez says that`s a stereotype Muslims themselves must work to change.

``Any group that comes to this country — they have to pay the price of being part of this system,`` he says. ``We`re paying our price.`` Is it worth it? ``I think it is. I think it is.``

Imam Azeez hopes the bridges he builds will help make Islam an accepted part of America`s religious mosaic.


©MMVI, CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved.

After a long time, an article on chowk where the quality of interacts is high. Good show!

Re: # 134

nasah

Thank you for updating me about Bush`s invasion of Iraq. But the real object in both the cases was quite different. While Tariq wanted to Islamize Spain, especially the `kafir` spanish ladies, Bush wanted WMDs which was actually oil of Iraq. So it is the same wolf and lamb story, meaning `might is right`, being repeated in history over and over again.

# 138 by zeemax

``Islam recognised this without pretenses and termed the only and ultimate reality as `Allah`. Everything else was dispensable``.

The basic Kalima of Islam is `La ilaha ilillah` (There is no god but God). Mushrakeene Makkah also believed in Allah of Islam. What Islam wanted, however, was negation of the gods which it considered to be false. But now a new religion called `Ishqe Rasool` is replacing Islam`s Allah even and everything which was indispensable.

Re: # 138
by brother Zeemax

[But then again, whatever I have said may be completely wrong`` (Richard Bach, Illusions)]

Jonathan Livingston Seagull held out more hope. -)

#125 by krishna_abcd

Krishna,

Thanks for your very generous comments. It is true Somerset Maugham, Bertrand Russel, Fyodor Dostoevsky and Maupassant were early formative influences amongst other French and Russian masters, not to mention the German heavies. All of them pretty dark. These taught me very early on that nothing really matters. Not life, not death, nothing. Eventually it`s all the same. Round and round and all over again. Accomplishment is a pauper`s dream. Misery is relative as is joy. Darkness is the absence of light and light the absence of darkness. Both are one and the same.

Islam recognised this without pretenses and termed the only and ultimate reality as `Allah`. Everything else was dispensable.

You point out ``... with Islam, the unseen hand of your prophet is at the throat of every follower 1400 years after his death.`` That is a misconception. The hand is there but not at their throats. It is there because he showed how good begets evil and vice versa so there was actually no difference between one or the other. That mastery over both is the hand of `awe` that persists since 1400 years.

Does that work? I think it does. It motivates people to stand up and fight regardless of adversity, because the worst that can happen is death, and that`s not too bad either. And to be evil when confronted with evil because that will beget good in the end ... and so forth before it begins all over again.

...you seem very sure of your facts when you say ``This is the only way to go as a belief system``...

Maugham also said in the preface of the `Summing Up` to the effect that ``What I say in this book are obviously what are my opinions, not anyone else`s. So I won`t punctuate my sentences with ... I think, or in my opinion ... etc...``

Having said that, the following are true as well !

``If there`s a crate of apples, and the once on top are rotten, what reason do I have to believe that the ones underneath will be good?`` (Bertrand Russel, The conquest of Happiness)

``But then again, whatever I have said may be completely wrong`` (Richard Bach, Illusions)

``this guy (ahmedinejad) is undoubtedly an illiterate idiot and a lunatic and anyone praising him certainly shares his stupidity``(BKhan)

you can say that again -- an Iranian illiterate idiot and lunatic against an American illiterate idiot and lunatic -- they deserve each other....kabootar ba kabootar baaz baa baaz/koonud humjins baa humjins pervaaz.....

teshah #132, {``Tariq bin Ziad had justified his invasion of Spain by saying ``Har mulk milke maa ast kih milke khudae maa ast` (Everything is Allah`s and Allah is mine and so everything is mine). ``}

Shah Sahib,
Tariq was definitely not that well-versed in Farsi. :) He spoke Arabic and possibly some Berber, but no Farsi. Being a good follower of Zia(d), he would never have used the word ``khuda`` instead of ``Allah.``

#103 by masadi

“Ahmedinejad has no clue about how things work in the US and its political establishment. Here, economic forces much more than any religious motivation drives decisions and keeps them uniform. He is living in his dream world and using rhetoric that serves as fuel for these sob US elite criminals to justify their many perversions.”

Masadi Sahed....this time you got it really right! Ahmedinejad comes out as a buffoon who mouths those dialogues like a stereotypical cheap terrorist from an American thriller .............this guy is undoubtedly an illiterate idiot and a lunatic and anyone praising him certainly shares his stupidity......... the US establishment is certainly pleased to have him mouth those cheap dialogues...................

``Tariq bin Ziad had justified his invasion of Spain by saying ``Har mulk milke maa ast kih milke khudae maa ast` (Everything is Allah`s and Allah is mine and so everything is mine). So one can appropriate Allah to appropriate every thing, of course, if one has appropriate might to do so.``(tshah)

Tariq bin Ziad illegitimate born-again child Bush bin Bush said the same thing before he invaded Iraq -- ``Iraq doesn`t belong to Saddam -- Iraq belongs to Democrazy -- and since Democrazy is my personal property -- Iraq is mine``..

......thanks for explaining Iraq invasion -- tshah

#131 by kaalchakra

[Humanity will one day overcome Islam because it must?

My friend, let`s hope you are not into horse racing. You could lose a lot of money backing horses that will win because they must. ]


Nope, I was just being optimistic.

But I`ll write down your horseracing tip in my notebook. Thanks for caring, old friend.

Re: # 126

Nothing left even for God, Khuda, Bhagwan ... to name the few of his ilk. As for the poor humans the hell is their`s to be filled in by them. Tariq bin Ziad had justified his invasion of Spain by saying ``Har mulk milke maa ast kih milke khudae maa ast` (Everything is Allah`s and Allah is mine and so everything is mine). So one can appropriate Allah to appropriate every thing, of course, if one has appropriate might to do so.

Krishna_abcd

Humanity will one day overcome Islam because it must?

My friend, let`s hope you are not into horse racing. You could lose a lot of money backing horses that will win because they must.

Chavez sees oil at $100 a barrel if US hits Iran
Sun May 14, 2006 3:31 PM ET
Reuters (http://today.reuters.com/business/newsarticle.aspx?type=ousiv&storyID=2006-05-14T193049Z_01_L1440203_RTRIDST_0_BUSINESSPRO-VENEZUELA-BRITAIN-DC.XML )

By Gideon Long

LONDON (Reuters) - Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez said on Sunday that if the United States attacked Iran in its dispute with Tehran over nuclear technology, the price of oil could soar to triple figures.

Visiting London following an EU-Latin American summit in Vienna at the weekend, Chavez, leader of the world`s fifth largest oil exporter, said the Iranians would have no choice but to respond to a U.S. assault by cutting oil production.

``If the United States attacks Iran ... oil could reach $100 a barrel or more,`` Chavez told a meeting hosted by London`s left-wing mayor Ken Livingstone. ``The English middle classes would have to stop using their cars.``

``If they attack Iran, the Iranians will cut off their supply of oil. We would do the same if we were attacked. We would cut off our oil,`` Chavez told around 1,000 British leftists and trade unionists. ``Moreover, Iran has said it would attack Israel, and I know they have the wherewithal to do so.``

The United States and European Union is putting pressure on Iran to halt uranium enrichment, which Tehran says it wants for peaceful nuclear power. The White House has refused to rule out military action although it is pursuing a diplomatic settlement.

The oil price has rocketed in recent years to around $70 a barrel, pouring billions of dollars into Venezuela`s economy and fuelling Chavez`s self-styled socialist Bolivarian revolution.

``If they attack Iran I think it will be far worse than the situation is in Iraq,`` Chavez said, describing the Iraq as ``the Vietnam of the 21st century.``

Chavez was welcomed to London by Livingstone, who opened the meeting by accusing President Bush of running ``a gangster regime.``

``We salute you Mr President,`` Livingstone told Chavez. ``Londoners stand with you, not with the oil companies and the oligarchs.``

Chavez is in London for two days to meet various figures from the British left. He will not meet British Prime Minister Tony Blair, who he criticized for his close alliance with Washington.

The ex-soldier was greeted by jubilant supporters as he took the platform in a stuccoed ballroom. Hundreds more gathered outside in a futile bid to hear him speak. The atmosphere inside was more like a rock concert than a political meeting.

Young Chavez supporters, clad in Venezuela`s red, blue and yellow colors, banged drums, waved placards and chanted the president`s name until he took the stage -- nearly two hours later than scheduled.

In a speech broadcast in Venezuela as Chavez`s regular ``Alo Presidente`` program, Chavez extolled the virtues of Fidel Castro`s Cuban government.

Chavez, Castro and Bolivian President Evo Morales are at the vanguard of Latin America`s recent shift to the political left.

Zeemax writes in #124 <<< Masadi, who gives a flying fcuk how things work in the US. This is about Islam. It has nothing to do with how US or anyone else operates. This is about how `we` operate. Including Osama Bin Laden whom you keep knocking for no reason. Where is he anyway? And what role did he play in `terror` ? >>>

Ahmedenajad wrote a letter to the US President (not to Khalifa Omar) trying to influence him (on the face of it atleast) using religious rhetoric trying to make points about political and economic issues. Things do not work in this fashion in the US, religion here is a dependent variable that is pushed for use but is never the pusher in global decisions. It is like speaking in Arabic to an English speaker, what part of that communication will get through? That was my point, not that I am concerned about what is important to the tyrannous US elite, that is not at all important to the masses in the world, I made that explicitly clear in my post. (By the way, UBL is a damn fool who is strengthening US hegemony around the globe, a useful idiot and little else).

Then Zeemax writes <<< Islam states that `All land belongs to Allah`. All `wealth` belongs to Allah`. Nothing belongs to anyone else. If Allah bestows wealth on anyone, it is his `duty` to distribute in the `way` of Allah. Allah bestowed it all and Allah can take it away.

That is the simple solution to all economic problems. When possessions become your own to keep and multiply, that creates chaos and disorder. When you believe it is bestowed, you gain a sense of responsibility to distribute. >>>

When have I said that everything belongs to people? So who are you arguing against? I will however add that humankind as ``trustee`` does not mean that they use the name of Allah to take away what has been entrusted to others. That is just BS and a misuse and abuse of Islam, and your Mullah friends have often done that , justifying any and all perverions by using the name of Allah or attributing things to the prophet as ``hadith``.

For you people, their saying and doings, real or forged, represent Islam, for me the Quran is the only representation of what Islam is. Both history and the Quran support my claim of what Islam is rather than yours.

HP writes in #123 <<< That is correct but why do you think they are still allies? Political and national alliances are formed and dropped when situation changes. They may have cooperated with the US or the Brits in 1953 but now they don’t need to. I agree that they are not people’s reps so they will do what is in their best interest and if that means being friends with the US in future, they will do that too. >>>

Why I think they are still allies is 1) Iraq and Afghanistan and how US and the Mullahs in Iran`s interests have converged 2) Like I mentioned in my post about Ahmadenejad, he is taking what the US elite considers important, the Iran nuclear issue, as the issue he is going to be most concerned with while ignoring the real problems that face the Iranian people, and by doing that not only are the motives of the US elite fulfilled but this mullah regime gets strengthened in Iran as well as people rally around them faced with by external enemy whom they are faciing with (feigned) courage.

Re: # 125
{{{{{{{Humanity will one day overcome Islam, not because I am sure about that, but because it must. It`s either that, or eternal slavery (obedience) of the mind for all humankind. The battlelines are drawn (although liberals and Islamic apologists try to blur the lines), the choices are clear.

Let humanity prevail. }}}}}

Beautiful. Eloquent. Well said. Especially the one about ``liberals`` blurring the lines.


As some one posted earlier here an illiterate who blows himself up is a Sufi saint, compared to the charlatans here and Muqtedar Khan- the real enemies that humanity must overcome. Remember we are all muslims ....we are just lost ... we have the option of ``realizing`` this folly.... and reverting to Islam.

It is amusing to see them condemning Osama...

``Islam states that `All land belongs to Allah`. All `wealth` belongs to Allah`. Nothing belongs to anyone else. If Allah bestows wealth on anyone, it is his `duty` to distribute in the `way` of Allah. Allah bestowed it all and Allah can take it away. ``

---

Indeed. Allah is the ultimate tyrant.

Re: #124 by zeemax

You know, zeemax, I have always thought that you are very different from the rest of the Chowk posters. I was impressed the first time I read a post from you with your analysis of Islam. It was objective and precise. And then you confirmed this in my mind once again when one day I saw you quote Somerset Maugham`s ``The Summing Up`` - ``the only thing that you can be sure about is that you cannot be sure about anything``. That used to be one of my favorite quotes. To have read that book and noticed that quote indicates a thinking and inquisitive mind.

The remarkable thing about your posts about Islam is that you cut through all the bullshit to the heart of the issue. Like anyone who has read the Islamic doctrine objectively, you have realized what Islam is at its core - a socio-political movement that seeks to eliminate all else. And yes, I agree that it ``cannot be compared with anyone else``. Even Stalinism fell with the death of the leader. But with Islam, the unseen hand of your prophet is at the throat of every follower 1400 years after his death. It is quite remarkable. Every cult seeks to silence critics and intellectuals through fear and intimidation. In the Stalinist era, nobody dared to whisper anything bad about Stalin or Stalinism - some party worker might
overhear! Public defiance is punished. Public

Look at Mohammed Gill and his attempts to criticize Islam. For every line of criticism, he has to vouch for his allegiance to ``The Cause`` with three lines of praise, often contradicting himself in the process. In what other religion do people live in such constant fear? The one or two Muslims who do criticize openly live in the US, out of reach of the ``party workers`` for all practical purposes.

There IS freedom in Islam - freedom to enlist, or die. Either violently, or through slow, inexorable attrition.

You do have your limitations, though. For someone who agrees with ``the only thing that you can be sure about is that you cannot be sure about anything``, you seem very sure of your facts when you say ``This is the only way to go as a belief system``. Yes, it might be the only way to go if ``might is right``, and Islam eventually devours all else. But you cannot possibly KNOW that Islam will devour all else.

Also, if you subscribe to the ``might is right`` theory, then would you say that if someone is stronger than you then he has a ``right``, for example, to rob you of your money whenever they want, or slap you around whenever he feels like it? That is a barbaric vision, incompatible with humanity. Might is NOT right, my friend, although in a myopic vision, it might seem that way.

Humanity will one day overcome Islam, not because I am sure about that, but because it must. It`s either that, or eternal slavery (obedience) of the mind for all humankind. The battlelines are drawn (although liberals and Islamic apologists try to blur the lines), the choices are clear.

Let humanity prevail.

#119 by masadi

The wording of his letter shows extreme naivety on how things work in the US.

Masadi, who gives a flying fcuk how things work in the US. This is about Islam. It has nothing to do with how US or anyone else operates. This is about how `we` operate. Including Osama Bin Laden whom you keep knocking for no reason. Where is he anyway? And what role did he play in `terror` ?

Islam is a radically different system and cannot be compared with anyone else.

Islam states that `All land belongs to Allah`. All `wealth` belongs to Allah`. Nothing belongs to anyone else. If Allah bestows wealth on anyone, it is his `duty` to distribute in the `way` of Allah. Allah bestowed it all and Allah can take it away.

That is the simple solution to all economic problems. When possessions become your own to keep and multiply, that creates chaos and disorder. When you believe it is bestowed, you gain a sense of responsibility to distribute.

This was said 1400 years ago and was always valid. This is the only way to go as a belief system.

You, Sir, are discrediting Islam by your meaningless rhetoric and creating enemies of Islam while it is a totally rational system. I carefully say `system` because I don`t give a damn about `religions`, I only stress on `systems`.

#119 by masadi

“The US brought him to power by consolidating public opinion in Iran around the nuclear issue which happened to be his main point of no compromise.”

So the US indirectly helped him come to power. That must be a circuitry route thru the heart of Qum. You see the nuke issue helps both parties so it will stay whether it is thru him or any other source. How much influence he wields? It is not more than the grand Imam or the grand council. If he does not have more power than them, then he is just a useful idiot which both (US and Mullah) could use. So the indirect credit to the US is a long shot but the direct beneficiaries are the people who brought him to the power.

The power structure in Iran is such that it is not possible for him to say things he is not authorized to say. He is doing his thing with full approval from the Grand Council and the confrontation with the US is in the council’s interest too.
The guy may be idiot but he is shilling for people behind him. He is not solely responsible for his statements.

“These ayatollahs sided with the British and the Americans when they got rid of Mossadeq, when the shah got too powerful they once again conspired with them for a transfer of power”

That is correct but why do you think they are still allies? Political and national alliances are formed and dropped when situation changes. They may have cooperated with the US or the Brits in 1953 but now they don’t need to. I agree that they are not people’s reps so they will do what is in their best interest and if that means being friends with the US in future, they will do that too.

“It is merely a cat and mouse game where the opponents are not actual opponents at all (in my opinion). The mullahs and the US elite are bedfellows.”

I kind of agree that this conflict is fake and totally manufactured and both sides would continue to escalate the conflict until one is completely suckered into it. Who would be the eventual loser we don’t know yet. Ideologically they are close, if not exactly the bedfellows.

Re: # 120
Here are more topics for GEOTV discussion tomorrow:

....Continuing Paki terrorism in South Asia

.....Global perceptions on Paki terrorism

`````` the hilarious joke of calling Paki an ally of US

and


HERE IS AN ASSESSMENT OF CURRENT PAKI TERROR STRATEGY:


http://www.saag.org/papers18/paper1797.html


23. Pakistan has been following a multi-pronged strategy in its contribution to the international community`s fight against jihadi terrorism emanating from its territory:

First, vigorous action against Al Qaeda elements identified by the US and non-action against those, who have not come to the notice of the US.

Second, non-action to trace and capture or kill Osama bin Laden.

Third, closing its eyes to the activities of the Taliban from its territory.

Four, continued assistance, instigation and use of the jihadi terrorists operating against India, while ostensibly banning their activities in response to US pressure. de jure, they are illegal organisations, but de facto, they are the treasured assets of Pakistan`s military and intelligence establishments.


24. This has been the assessment of India. This seems to be the assessment of the Hamid Karzai Government of Kabul too as well as of a growing section of independent analysts even in the US.

............

Can anybody please tell me about the contents of the letter written to the government of Germany by Aamir Cheema who committed suicide in a jail in Germany recently after his failed attempt to kill the editor of the German paper publishing the Danish Cartoons? I wonder why so much secrecy is being observed in this case.

The State Department official at this event will be the guest of Omar Khan on GEO TV`s

Jaiza program tomorrow (Sunday).......


Interview with Mr. Rob Tappan, A U.S. State Dept. Official working for Under Secretary Karen Hughes and Secretary of State Condeleeza Rice.



- Global perceptions of the U.S. foreign policy

- How does the administration rate the progress in Iraq/Afghanistan

- Pakistan`s Role - Why is the U.S. a fair weather friend?

- Pakistan vs. India - The changing relationship

- Al Jazeera Network vs. Fox

- Muslim Americans - Tired of profiling - Need Answers



Sunday 12:05 p.m. Pacific 3:05 p.m. Eastern

Monday 10:30 p.m. Pacific

Friday 5:05 p.m. Eastern

Channel 620 GEO TV on Dish Network



P.S: GEO programming subject to change at the last minute due to changing news events or specials



Regards,

Jaiza Team

#111 HP writes <<< Asadi,
I think you are looking at it with an emotional pov. There is a clear rationale behind Ahmedinejad’s letter. Before I come to it, I should say that I don’t underestimate Iranian diplomats. They are not new to this world of diplomatic maneuverings. Pretty much the same group has control over the Iranian diplomacy for the last 25-26 years and they have consistently been able to put a better foot forward despite hostility from all US governments. >>>

HP sahib that guy is an idiot. The US brought him to power by consolidating public opinion in Iran around the nuclear issue which happened to be his main point of no compromise. The US is using him, I know that, and to the detriment of the people in his country, that was all my post and conclusion were about. The wording of his letter shows extreme naivety on how things work in the US. His letter which is full of religious references and well know arguments against US foreign policy, when taken in the context of his previous rhetoric will be used by the US elite at will to bolster domestic support for whatever they do with Iran in the future. This guy seems just as naively idiotic to me as UBL but in a position to do much greater harm in the region, to his own people, than UBL can ever achieve.

They have been able to ``put a better foot forward`` only because what they wanted coincided with what the US elite were desiring at the time. You are correct about oil prices. Such confrontations, projected towards the future, as threat, are good for profit maximization of US corporations, like C. W. Mills said, they have become for the corporations, ``the business way of American life``. These ayatollahs sided with the British and the Americans when they got rid of Mossadeq, when the shah got too powerful they once again conspired with them for a transfer of power, when the reformists were getting popular they brought up the nuclear issue to consolidate the power of the clergy. It is merely a cat and mouse game where the opponents are not actual opponents at all (in my opinion). The mullahs and the US elite are bedfellows.

The letter while it might help the Iranian president (not their government) with the masses in the Middle East will do next to nothing to bolster their support with the governments of those countries. What is happening in Iraq does not help its cause with Middle Eastern countries as well. I do not think this was a planned diplomatic move on the part of Ahmadinejad. If the idiot was so ``diplomatic`` he wouldn`t have used his other nonsense rhetoric earlier knowing full well that the western media that doominates global media would pick up parts they could use for their own benefit. If he feels this rhetoric will help Iran attain hegemony in the Middle East, he is also naively mistaken.

A Muslim American Tale

Long, long ago, in a faraway place called the golden land, a bunch of Pakistani fat cats with time on hand got together - dragging a few non-Pakistani fat cats along - where they discussed at length the demerits of an evil black cat somewhere ``out there``. It was not that they had been unaware of the bad cat before, but they had always found it was far easier to ignore the evil black cat rather than to face up to it. Besides, there was a certain degree of ambivalence because it was unclear whether the evil cat was on ``their`` side - and there was the fear of being branded a non-cat which carried a cat death penalty.

A lot of meowing took place.

The fat cats had a difficult time dissociating themselves from the evil black cat which was doing a lot of damage to the image of cats in general and fat cats in particular. It was unanimously concluded that it was in general a good idea to bell that evil black cat.

End of story.

Sequeal:

One of the fat cats liked food. He went home and cooked up something using what he gathered in the gathering.

Americans and Muslims are Bhai-Bhai. Except US wanted to bomb Afghanistan back to stone age and it also wanted to get rid of Iraqi dictator on suspicion of having possessed WMDs. Except that there were no WMDs. Crusades never really stopped. No matter what some deluded Muslim might like to think. Either Islam changes or it goes. Sau Baat Kee Ekk Baat.

Re: # 112
{{{{Iran may produce the first democracy in muslim world, and not the U.S. in the Iraq, or Pakistan. }}}}}

Anil,
Although i had mocked at the letter in an ealier post, I share your sentiments about the Iranian society.

The true enemies of US are Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. US has misplaced priorities.

regards,

Full text
Iran letter to Bush was invitation to Islam: President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad



LONDON, May 12 (IranMania) - Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said that his letter to President George W Bush did not concern the nuclear dossier, but rather was an invitation to Islam and the prophets culture, IRNA reported.

.....

Stressing that the letter was beyond the nuclear issue, the chief executive said that in principle, the country`s nuclear case is not so significant to make him write a letter about it.
``We act according to laws and our activities are quite clear. We are rather intent on solving more fundamental global matters.
...``The letter was an invitation to monotheism and justice, which are common to all divine prophets. If the call is responded positively, there will be no more problems to be solved,`` added the president.
...............

``We hold talks with our allies, such as Indonesia, quite smoothly. However those intending to speak to us with authority should attempt to change their attitude,`` he added.

About the possibility of military attack on Iran, he said that psychological war is quite likely and expressed his doubt about the military option.
.............
In response to a question about suspension of enrichment, the president said that Iran will agree to suspend the process only if all those having access to nuclear fuel will suspend theirs and let their relevant facilities be inspected..........................

``Otherwise, we do not find it necessary to suspend our uranium enrichment and consider the call for it as unfair and will continue to reject it,``..........................

``However, given that we do not merely defend our own nation, we wish to feel the presence of our allies, including Indonesia as one of our closest friends,`` he added.

#102 by echoboom/#103 by masadi/#111 by HP

echoboom, thanks for this post. I had not known the contents of the letter before this.

This letter, in my opinion, is a carefully thought out strategy. As HP in his excellant analysis vide # 103 pointed out, Iranians are no novices at diplomacy. Though I would add they are no novices militarily either. Masadi, wrongly, discounts the letter altogether terming Ahemidinejad to be Naive.

Is Ahmedinijad naive? The events since the nuke crisis broke out suggest quite the opposite. He escalated the hostile rhetoric step-by-step knowing if US did the same, it could not carry out the attack threat and would lose face. Thus, US could do nothing and backed off trying to win support which wasn`t forthcoming either with Russia and China chosing the opposing camp, even for a mandatory security council resolution for sanctions .. let alone military action. As it stands now, US has painted itself into a corner, and Iran will likely go ahead to enrich as much uranium as it wants and for whatever purpose it wants.

The letter, is a carefully timed next step. Once both the unipolar hegemonic bullying as well as the diplomatic attempts to collect support by US had failed, it was time to make a gesture which (1) softens Iran`s perception in the west of an intransigent Mullah; and (2) expresses global inequities in everyday terms so that it appeals to the common man. These are the things that everyone talks about but no Head of State has, in recent memory, stated directly without mincing words. The passage on Africa appears to have been carefully included to avoid any perception of ethnicism while at the same time reiterating his statements re the validity of the holocaust as well as existance of Israel. A general statement i.e. ``The people are protesting the increasing gap between the haves and the have-nots and the rich and poor countries.`` has been emphatically placed as a seperate para.

The many references to Jesus are there for the purpose of appealing to the bible-belt neo-cons, while Muhammad is not mentioned at all to avoid comparisons.

The ending is quite brilliant:

``My question for you is: ``Do you not want to join them?``

Mr. President, Whether we like it or not, the world is gravitating towards faith in the Almighty and justice and the will of God will prevail over all things.

These paras are almost ticklish/teasing. On the one hand he avoids Islamic rhetoric by stressing on all faiths, and on the other hand he draws obvious reference to the early Islamic way of writing letters to heads of opposing empires to accept Islam `or` be ready for war. This is right up the alley with the Jihadis too!

This Amedinijad, quite honestly, looks like a nerd ... but he obviously isn`t one. He is something else judging by this letter. US will be extremely hard put in both cases of either responding to or rejecting this letter, simply because what is stated therein is the truth and everyone knows that. It seems there isn`t an official response yet.

But anil ji, you surely have known many more Iranians than I ever will. Do you think that the progressivism of Iranian society can be replicated in any other Islamic country?

Re: # 107

Masadi Sahib:

``Anil >>>

.... if you want to define that as ``extreme`` so be it.... ``

I thank you for it.

Masadi Sahib, I do not think you really meant to give me so much freedom to define ``extreme``. Otherwise you know my answer that you must also accept. I honestly thank you for giving me the freedom to define.

Extreme, as you know, is a very subjective perception and not the truth (if anyone knows what the real truth is, the person in my buddist thinking has attained Nirvana).. Please don`t try to tell me the truth will be found only in Islam. To each something is extreme and not to others.

I respect your views just because of this firm belief of mine.

I for one is not a religionist. I gave up the most wonderful things, lovable relationship and friendship in life, because I stood by that human knowledge and values are beyond religious boundaries.

Coming to reality, from Khomeini, Rafsanjani, to Ahmadenejad is democracy in evolution in Islamic worl. Please respect it as voice of the people. In your life time, the world will respect it too. And never OBL, whether muslims and Islam accepts him or rejects him or his ilk. Iranian democracy probably wil be the hope of peaceful Islam. Please be patient and you will see the effect this man`s letter will have in silencing millions of guns, and bunker burster, blanket bombings etc.. Iran may produce the first democracy in muslim world, and not the U.S. in the Iraq, or Pakistan.

How long will it take the west to dump Pakistan, if it can have a working relationship and peaceful co-existance with Iran?

For some other day I wpuld leave that there is not third world. There is only one world. Let market forces make the world realize it.

Thank you,
Anil

#103 by masadi

“Ahmedinejad has no clue about how things work in the US and its political establishment. Here, economic forces much more than any religious motivation drives decisions and keeps them uniform. He is living in his dream world and using rhetoric that serves as fuel for these sob US elite criminals to justify their many perversions.”

Asadi,
I think you are looking at it with an emotional pov. There is a clear rationale behind Ahmedinejad’s letter. Before I come to it, I should say that I don’t underestimate Iranian diplomats. They are not new to this world of diplomatic maneuverings. Pretty much the same group has control over the Iranian diplomacy for the last 25-26 years and they have consistently been able to put a better foot forward despite hostility from all US governments.

Ahmedinejad is not an individual like Saddam Hussein was. True, we can dispute his election and possibly claim that he was not democratically elected but his support group is in power for a long time and he does not control all facets of power in Iran. So, whatever he or his diplomats put out, is a part of a well thought out strategy. We may find holes in that strategy or may not agree with the rationale behind it but it is a collective Iranian effort and he is just the primary spokesman for the regime.

When you pull him up individually for his actions, you are pretty much following what Iran and the US both lead you to believe. The US needs another Saddam to be portrayed as Hitler and the Irani regime understands that. They too feel that it would be easier to sacrifice him at some point of time, if the need for a patch up with the US becomes imperative.

Before looking at the letter, let me run another idea by you here.

The heightened alarms over war lead to higher Oil prices. Now tell me who benefits from the higher Oil prices: the Oil exporters that include Iran and the US Oil companies and who suffers the most: China, Europe and the other emerging economies. The US still has a very good margin in the domestic oil prices but other countries are pretty much running on empty. So the higher oil prices have short term gains for both the US and Iran. It helps the US to intimidate its own allies whereas Iran keeps pressure on it own supporters while still enjoying the high prices. So both parties are milking the situation for their own ends.

The gambit lies in whether the US would be able to deliver an incapacitating blow to Iran in the coming months or not. The Irani game is that the US lacks the ability to cripple the Irani government. The US is unsure whether it can bring the Irani government down though it does have the capability. It is a tightrope but Iranians I think, have become very good in playing this game.

Now look at the letter. The Iranians know that the US would reject the letter because it is a part of the propaganda war. The audience that Iran is trying to reach is not the US but the Muslim countries and I think the letter would help the Iranians in the Middle East and the other Muslim countries.

Half the war is winning the media. The US is winning that war in its own country but internationally, it is losing the public opinion battle. With a failure in Iraq, the attack on Iran becomes even more difficult for the US and on top of that Iranians come back with their own propaganda tools such as the letter. It is a strategy that that bhoondoo bux Saddam never used.

I think it is a good strategy. You just can’t wait for the US to attack you. Instead you keep on putting the ball in the US court to make sure it has to play some defensive strokes.

If the internal US situation worsens, and it fails to attack Iran or the US makes a feeble attempt, the Iranians can claim victory and go on their merry way while the internal crisis carries the US to a bitter confrontation internally.

RE: #100 by bharath Wrote
``RE# 87 RAS
{{{{..... His remark on India was not off the mark.

Pakistan is just as bad}}}}}}

PAKISTAN IS JUST AS BAD?

We should have discussions here in true democratic spirit. But the above HUMBUG/HYPOCRITICAL statment of the author should not go unchallenged.
I`ll have to repost one of my earlier postings:``


Chill out bharath,

I was only pointing to mob violence as a similar predictable reaction

in both India and Pakistan. Not the institutional apparatus put in place.

In Pakistan, mobs attacked and tried to destroy Hindu Temples that had

not been used in years after the Babri Masjid demolition.

It just goes to prove that people on both sides of the border can be

idiots. In this they are quite similar.

Anil, thanks once again for your words of wisdom. I just could not

make it to TiEcon this year but hope to do so next time.


I am all for moderation in religion.

We do not have to re-invent the wheel.

We were all Muslims before the Afghan war and the Iranian

Revolution. We have to be good human beings and share this

planet that we all inhabit.


Ras

I call Muqtedar Khan a liberal Islamist

I wonder why you people do not take notice of the greatest and the most hot gap today - the gap between the `Aashiqane Rasool` and the `Blashemers`? The `live` body (I cannot call it dead as it is the body of a shaheed) of Aamir Cheema `Shaheed` has come from Germany but the Paky political and power Mafia is at a loss how to dispose it off. It seems to them to be more powerful than a suicide bomber.

What the immigrants, especially the Muslims in the West, are likely to face as a reaction to the zeal shown by Aashiqane Rasool is yet to be seen.

#106 anil writes <<< Do you think your extreme views about the U.S. is the correct way to deal with the U.S.?

Please be brief and no obscene or angry words, thank you.

Anil >>>

Firstly my views about the US are not ``extreme``. I do condemn the US elite for their policies or lack thereof, if you want to define that as ``extreme`` so be it. That part of my ``extremism`` (by your definition) is to understand the problem. You cannot understand the problems by masking the facts in feel-good rhetoric. Recognizing the problem and its causes is the first step towards effective solutions. Ahmadenejad has no concept of the problems and hense no concept of a solution, he has pulled a rabbit out of his hat and feels that this magic act will somehow take care of everything. Things don`t work in that fashion in this world or I`d recommend setting up a rabbit pulling factory on every other city block all over the third world.

Re: # 103

Masadi Sahib:

``Like the California group Ahmedinejad has no clue about how things work in the US and its political establishment. ..... ?

Do you have any clue, Masadi sahib....?

Do you think your extreme views about the U.S. is the correct way to deal with the U.S.?

Please be brief and no obscene or angry words, thank you.

Anil

Thank you,

# 103 Masadi

You are absolutely right that he is exposing his folks to severe danger. If he or other Islamic leaders truly want to get bigger slice of economic pie for their folks, and not just for themselves, they should learn from Japanese, Chinese and Indian leadership, in that order.

They will have to learn to talk less, think intelligently like chess players and focus on education rather than meaningless rhetoric.

Yeah... Bush is the evil person ... Ahmedinajad is the savior of the world.
Lunatic ramblings .....not surprisingly admired by
some fanatic loonatics.

Let us talk about Darfur where people of
the religion of pece is indulging in some glorious Islamic
activities...............
The picture fits well with how Islamists live peacefully
with Paris Christians, Thai Buddhists, Hindoos, Jews, Atheists,
and just above every one else under the sun.


http://www.darfurgenocide.org/


The Sudanese Government, using Arab ``Janjaweed`` militias, its air force, and organized starvation, is systematically killing the black Sudanese of Darfur.

The picture of the boy killed (left) shows what is happening in Darfur. Over two and a half million people, driven from their homes, now face death from starvation and disease as the Government and militias attempt to prevent humanitarian aid from reaching them. The same forces have destroyed the people of Darfur`s villages and crops, and poisoned their water supplies, and they continue to murder, rape and terrorize.

This site`s sole purpose is to try to save lives by helping stop the genocide in Darfur.

It empowers you to take smart, strategic actions to compel those in power to act through international petitions or local events. It provides access to the best, most relevant and most upto date information available. You can also give online to our Advocacy Fund.

The situation in Darfur is dire............

Like the California group Ahmedinejad has no clue about how things work in the US and its political establishment. Here, economic forces much more than any religious motivation drives decisions and keeps them uniform. He is living in his dream world and using rhetoric that serves as fuel for these sob US elite criminals to justify their many perversions. He, just like them, is a criminal who is not thinking about how his fantasy worldview and these infantile letters will affect the millions in Iran who are going to suffer because he is dumb enough not to know the real world situation and the motivations that are now targeting Iran. Like UBL he feels he is sitting in a command position (on the starship enterprise) negotiating peace treaties and getting ready to fire photon torpedoes on immoral enemies. In that process he does not care about the over 68 million lives that might be affected. He is buying into what the US considers important, while forgetting about his people at home. F, all of what the US elite considers important. That is not at all important to the masses in the world.

Yeah, Bush the damn criminal, is going to read Ahmedinejad`s letter and say Allahu akbar and repent and close down the shop that the corporations have set up in America`s political arena. Mashallah what foresight this ``leader`` has been blessed with. When such infants represent the Muslim world what results can we expect? Disgraceful naivety that does little to benefit the millions that he rules over

Text of Iranian Ahmadinejad`s letter to Bush

Wednesday, May10 , 2006 - © 2005IranMania.com


LONDON, May 10 (IranMania) - Iran`s Foreign Ministry said it was waiting for a response from US President George W Bush to a surprise letter sent by the Islamic republic`s hardline President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, AFP reported.

Here is the text of the letter, obtained by AFP.

Mr. George Bush,

President of the United States of America

For sometime now I have been thinking, how one can justify the undeniable contradictions that exist in the international arena, which are being constantly debated, especially in political forums and amongst university students. Many questions remain unanswered. These have prompted me to discuss some of the contradictions and questions, in the hopes that it might bring about an opportunity to redress them.

Can one be a follower of Jesus Christ (PBUH), the great Messenger of God,

Feel obliged to respect human rights,

Present liberalism as a civilization model,

Announce one`s opposition to the proliferation of nuclear weapons and WMDs,

Make ``War and Terror`` his slogan,

And finally,

Work towards the establishment of a unified international community, a community which Christ and the virtuous of the Earth will one day govern,

But at the same time,

Have countries attacked. The lives, reputations and possessions of people destroyed and on the slight chance of the presence of a few criminals in a village, city or convoy for example, the entire village, city or convoy set ablaze.

Or because of the possibility of the existence of WMDs in one country, it is occupied, around one hundred thousand people killed, its water sources, agriculture and industry destroyed, close to180 , 000foreign troops put on the ground, sanctity of private homes of citizens broken, and the country pushed back perhaps fifty years. At what price? Hundreds of billions of dollars spent from the treasury of one country and certain other countries and tens of thousands of young men and women, as occupation troops, put in harms way, taken away from family and loved ones, their hands stained with the blood of others, subjected to so much psychological pressure that everyday some commit suicide and those returning home suffer depression, become sickly and grapple with all sorts of aliments; while some are killed and their bodies handed to their families.

On the pretext of the existence of WMDs, this great tragedy came to engulf both the peoples of the occupied and the occupying country. Later it was revealed that no WMDs existed to begin with.

Of course Saddam was a murderous dictator. But the war was not waged to topple him, the announced goal of the war was to find and destroy weapons of mass destruction. He was toppled along the way towards another goal; nevertheless the people of the region are happy about it. I point out that throughout the many years of the imposed war on Iran Saddam was supported by the West.

Mr. President,

You might know that I am a teacher. My students ask me how can theses actions be reconciled with the values outlined at the beginning of this letter and duty to the tradition of Jesus Christ (PBUH), the Messenger of peace and forgiveness?

There are prisoners in Guantanamo Bay that have not been tried, have no legal representation, their families cannot see them and are obviously kept in a strange land outside their own country. There is no international monitoring of their conditions and fate. No one knows whether they are prisoners, POWs, accused or criminals.

European investigators have confirmed the existence of secret prisons in Europe too. I could not correlate the abduction of a person, and him or her being kept in secret prisons, with the provisions of any judicial system. For that matter, I fail to understand how such actions correspond to the values outlined in the beginning of this letter, i.e. the teachings of Jesus Christ (PBUH), human rights and liberal values.

Young people, university students, and ordinary people have many questions about the phenomenon of Israel. I am sure you are familiar with some of them.

Throughout history many countries have been occupied, but I think the establishment of a new country with a new people, is a new phenomenon that is exclusive to our times.

Students are saying that sixty years ago such a country did not exist. They show old documents and globes and say try as we have, we have not been able to find a country named Israel.

I tell them to study the history of WWI and II. One of my students told me that during WWII, which more than tens of millions of people perished in, news about the war, was quickly disseminated by the warring parties. Each touted their victories and the most recent battlefront defeat of the other party. After the war they claimed that six million Jews had been killed. Six million people that were surely related to at least two million families.

Again let us assume that these events are true. Does that logically translate into the establishment of the state of Israel in the Middle East or support for such a state? How can this phenomenon be rationalized or explained?

Mr. President,

I am sure you know how, and at what cost, Israel was established:

- Many thousands were killed in the process.

- Millions of indigenous people were made refugees.

- Hundreds of thousands of hectares of farmland, olive plantations, towns and villages were destroyed.

This tragedy is not exclusive to the time of establishment; unfortunately it has been ongoing for sixty years now. A regime has been established which does not show mercy even to kids, destroys houses while the occupants are still in them, announces beforehand its list and plans to assassinate Palestinian figures, and keeps thousands of Palestinians in prison. Such a phenomenon is unique, or at the very least extremely rare, in recent memory.

Another big question asked by the people is ``why is this regime being supported?`` Is support for this regime in line with the teachings of Jesus Christ (PBUH) or Moses (PBUH) or liberal values? Or are we to understand that allowing the original inhabitants of these lands, inside and outside Palestine, whether they are Christian, Muslim or Jew, to determine their fate, runs contrary to principles of democracy, human rights and the teachings of prophets? If not, why is there so much opposition to a referendum?

The newly elected Palestinian administration recently took office. All independent (observers) have confirmed that this government represents the electorate. Unbelievingly, they have put the elected government under pressure and have advised it to recognize the Israeli regime, abandon the struggle and follow the programs of the previous government.

If the current Palestinian government had run on the above platform, would the Palestinian people have voted for it? Again, can such position taken in opposition to the Palestinian government be reconciled with the values outlined earlier? The people are also saying ``why are all UNSC (UN Security Council) resolutions in condemnation of Israel vetoed?``

Mr. President,

As you are well aware, I live amongst the people and am in constant contact with them, many people from around the Middle East manage to contact me as well. They do not have faith in these dubious policies either. There is evidence that the people of the region are becoming increasingly angry with such policies.

It is not my intention to pose too many questions, but I need to refer to other points as well.

Why is it that any technological and scientific achievement reached in the Middle East region is translated into and portrayed as a threat to the Zionist regime? Is not scientific R and D one of the basic rights of nations?

You are familiar with history. Aside from the Middle Ages, in what other point in history has scientific and technical progress been a crime? Can the possibility of scientific achievements being utilized for military purposes be reason enough to oppose science and technology altogether? If such a supposition is true, then all scientific disciplines, including physics, chemistry, mathematics, medicine, engineering, etc. must be opposed.

Lies were told in the Iraqi matter. What was the result? I have no doubt that telling lies is reprehensible in any culture, and you do not like to be lied to.

Mr. President,

Don`t Latin Americans have the right to ask why their elected governments are being opposed and coup leaders supported? Or, Why must they constantly be threatened and live in fear?

The people of Africa are hardworking, creative and talented. They can play an important and valuable role in providing for the needs of humanity and contribute to its material and spiritual progress. Poverty and hardship in large parts of Africa are preventing this from happening. Don`t they have the right to ask why their enormous wealth, including minerals, is being looted, despite the fact that they need it more than others?

Again, do such actions correspond to the teachings of Christ and the tenets of human rights?

The brave and faithful people of Iran too have many questions and grievances, including: the coup d`etat of 1953 and the subsequent toppling of the legal government of the day, opposition to the Islamic revolution, transformation of an Embassy into a headquarters supporting, the activities of those opposing the Islamic Republic (many thousands of pages of documents corroborate this claim), support for Saddam in the war waged against Iran, the shooting down of the Iranian passenger plane, freezing the assets of the Iranian nation, increasing threats, anger and displeasure vis-a-vis the scientific and nuclear progress of the Iranian nation (just when all Iranians are jubilant and celebrating their country`s progress), and many other grievances that I will not refer to in this letter.

Mr. President,

September Eleven was a horrendous incident. The killing of innocents is deplorable and appalling in any part of the world. Our government immediately declared its disgust with the perpetrators and offered its condolences to the bereaved and expressed its sympathies.

All governments have a duty to protect the lives, property and good standing of their citizens. Reportedly your government employs extensive security, protection and intelligence systems, and even hunts its opponents abroad. September Eleven was not a simple operation. Could it be planned and executed without coordination with intelligence and security services, or their extensive infiltration? Of course this is just an educated guess. Why

have the various aspects of the attacks been kept secret? Why are we not told who botched their responsibilities? And, why aren`t those responsible and the guilty parties identified and put on trial?

All governments have a duty to provide security and peace of mind for their citizens. For some years now, the people of your country and neighbors of world trouble spots do not have peace of mind. After9 /11, instead of healing and tending to the emotional wounds of the survivors and the American people, who had been immensely traumatized by the attacks, some Western media only intensified the climates of fear and insecurity, some constantly talked about the possibility of new terror attacks and kept the people in fear. Is that service to the American people? Is it possible to calculate the damages incurred from fear and panic?

American citizens lived in constant fear of fresh attacks that could come at any moment and in any place. They felt insecure in the streets, in their place of work and at home. Who would be happy with this situation? Why was the media, instead of conveying a feeling of security and providing peace of mind, giving rise to a feeling of insecurity?

Some believe that the hype paved the way, and was the justification, for an attack on Afghanistan. Again I need to refer to the role of media. In media charters, correct dissemination of information and honest reporting of a story are established tenets. I express my deep regret about the disregard shown by certain Western media for these principles. The main pretext for an attack on Iraq was the existence of WMDs. This was repeated incessantly, for the public to finally believe, and the ground set for an attack on Iraq.

Will the truth not be lost in a contrived and deceptive climate? Again, if the truth is allowed to be lost, how can that be reconciled with the earlier mentioned values? Is the truth known to the Almighty lost as well?

Mr. President,

In countries around the world, citizens provide for the expenses of governments so that their governments in turn are able to serve them.

The question here is ``what has the hundreds of billions of dollars, spent every year to pay for the Iraqi campaign, produced for the citizens?``

As your Excellency is aware, in some states of your country, people are living in poverty. Many thousands are homeless and unemployment is a huge problem. Of course these problems exist, to a larger or lesser extent, in other countries as well. With these conditions in mind, can the gargantuan

expenses of the campaign, paid from the public treasury, be explained and be consistent with the aforementioned principles?

What has been said are some of the grievances of the people around the world, in our region and in your country. But my main contention, which I am hoping you will agree to some of it, is:

Those in power have a specific time in office and do not rule indefinitely, but their names will be recorded in history and will be constantly judged in the immediate and distant futures.

The people will scrutinize our presidencies. Did we (manage) to bring peace, security and prosperity for the people or insecurity and unemployment?

Did we intend to establish justice or just supported (special) interest groups, and by forcing many people to live in poverty and hardship, made a few people rich and powerful -- thus trading the approval of the people and the Almighty with theirs? Did we defend the rights of the underprivileged or

ignore them? Did we defend the rights of all people around the world or imposed wars on them, interfered illegally in their affairs, established hellish prisons and incarcerated some of them? Did we bring the world peace and security or raised the specter of intimidation and threats? Did we tell the truth to our nation and others around the world or presented an inverted version of it? Were we on the side of people or the occupiers and

oppressors? Did our administrations set out to promote rational behavior, logic, ethics, peace, fulfilling obligations, justice, service to the people, prosperity, progress and respect for human dignity or the force of guns, Intimidation, insecurity, disregard for the people, delaying the progress and excellence of other nations, and trample on people`s rights? And finally, they will judge us on whether we remained true to our oath of office, to serve the people, which is our main task, and the traditions of the prophets, or not?

Mr. President,

How much longer can the world tolerate this situation? Where will this trend lead the world to? How long must the people of the world pay for the incorrect decisions of some rulers? How much longer will the specter of insecurity -- raised from the stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction, hunt the people of the world? How much longer will the blood of the innocent men, women and children be spilled on the streets, and people`s houses

destroyed over their heads? Are you pleased with the current condition of the world? Do you think present policies can continue?

If billions of dollars spent on security, military campaigns and troop movement were instead spent on investment and assistance for poor countries, promotion of health, combating different diseases, education and improvement of mental and physical fitness, assistance to the victims of natural disasters, creation of employment opportunities and production, development projects and poverty alleviation, establishment of peace, mediation between disputing states, and distinguishing the flames of racial, ethnic and other conflicts, (where) would the world be today? Would not your government and people be justifiably proud? Would not your administration`s political and economic standing have been stronger? And I am most sorry to say, would there have been an ever increasing global hatred of the American government?

Mr. President, it is not my intention to distress anyone.

If Prophet Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Ishmael, Joseph, or Jesus Christ (PBUH) were with us today, how would they have judged such behavior? Will we be given a role to play in the promised world, where justice will become universal and Jesus Christ (PBUH) will be present? Will they even accept us?

My basic question is this: Is there no better way to interact with the rest of the world? Today there are hundreds of millions of Christians, hundreds of millions of Moslems and millions of people who follow the teachings of Moses (PBUH). All divine religions share and respect one word and that is ``monotheism`` or belief in a single God and no other in the world.

The Holy Koran stresses this common word and calls on all followers of divine religions and says: (3.64) Say: O followers of the Book! Come to an equitable proposition between us and you that we shall not serve any but Allah and (that) we shall not associate aught with Him and (that) some of us shall not take others for lords besides Allah; but if they turn back, then say: Bear witness that we are Muslims. (The Family of Imran)

Mr. President,

According to divine verses, we have all been called upon to worship one God and follow the teachings of divine Prophets. ``To worship a God which is above all powers in the world and can do all He pleases.`` ``The Lord which knows that which is hidden and visible, the past and the future, knows what goes on in the Hearts of His servants and records their deeds.`` ``The Lord who is the possessor of the heavens and the earth and all universe is His court`` ``Planning for the universe is done by His hands, and gives His servants the glad tidings of mercy and forgiveness of sins`` ``He is the

companion of the oppressed and the enemy of oppressors`` ``He is the Compassionate, the Merciful`` ``He is the recourse of the faithful and guides them towards the light from darkness`` ``He is witness to the actions of His servants`` ``He calls on servants to be faithful and do good deeds, and asks them to stay on the path of righteousness and remain steadfast`` ``Calls on servants to heed His prophets and He is a witness to their deeds`` ``A bad ending belongs only to those who have chosen the life of this world and disobey Him and oppress His servants`` and ``A good end and eternal paradise belong to those servants who fear His majesty and do not follow their lascivious selves.``

We believe a return to the teachings of the divine prophets is the only road leading to salvation. I have been told that Your Excellency follows the teachings of Jesus (PBUH) and believes in the divine promise of the rule of the righteous on Earth.

We also believe that Jesus Christ (PBUH) was one of the great prophets of the Almighty. He has been repeatedly praised in the Koran. Jesus (PBUH) has been quoted in Koran as well: (19.36) And surely Allah is my Lord and your Lord, therefore serve Him; this is the right path. MariumService to and obedience of the Almighty is the credo of all divine messengers.

The God of all people in Europe, Asia, Africa, America, the Pacific and the rest of the world is one. He is the Almighty who wants to guide and give dignity to all His servants. He has given greatness to Humans.

We again read in the Holy Book: ``The Almighty God sent His prophets with miracles and clear signs to guide the people and show them divine signs and purify them from sins and pollutions. And He sent the Book and the balance so that the people display justice and avoid the rebellious.``

All of the above verses can be seen, one way or the other, in the Good Book as well. Divine prophets have promised: The day will come when all humans will congregate before the court of the Almighty, so that their deeds are examined. The good will be directed towards (Heaven) and evildoers will meet divine retribution. I trust both of us believe in such a day, but it will not be easy to calculate the actions of rulers, because we must be answerable to our nations and all others whose lives have been directly or indirectly affected by our actions.

All prophets speak of peace and tranquility for man -- based on monotheism, justice and respect for human dignity.

Do you not think that if all of us come to believe in and abide by these principles, that is, monotheism, worship of God, justice, respect for the dignity of man, belief in the Last Day, we can overcome the present problems of the world, that are the result of disobedience to the Almighty and the teachings of prophets, and improve our performance?

Do you not think that belief in these principles promotes and guarantees peace, friendship and justice?

Do you not think that the aforementioned written or unwritten principles are universally respected?

Will you not accept this invitation? That is, a genuine return to the teachings of prophets, to monotheism and justice, to preserve human dignity and obedience to the Almighty and His prophets?

Mr. President,

History tells us that repressive and cruel governments do not survive. God has entrusted the fate of men to them. The Almighty has not left the universe and humanity to their own devices. Many things have happened contrary to the wishes and plans of governments. These tell us that there is a higher power at work and all events are determined by Him.

Can one deny the signs of change in the world today? Is the situation of the world today comparable to that of ten years ago? Changes happen fast and come at a furious pace.

The people of the world are not happy with the status quo and pay little heed to the promises and comments made by a number of influential world leaders. Many people around the world feel insecure and oppose the spreading of insecurity and war and do not approve of and accept dubious policies.

The people are protesting the increasing gap between the haves and the have-nots and the rich and poor countries.

The people are disgusted with increasing corruption.

The people of many countries are angry about the attacks on their cultural foundations and the disintegration of families. They are equally dismayed with the fading of care and compassion. The people of the world have no faith in international organizations, because their rights are not advocated by these organizations.

Liberalism and Western style democracy have not been able to help realize the ideals of humanity. Today these two concepts have failed. Those with insight can already hear the sounds of the shattering and fall of the ideology and thoughts of the Liberal democratic systems.

We increasingly see that people around the world are flocking towards a main focal point -- that is the Almighty God. Undoubtedly through faith in God and the teachings of the prophets, the people will conquer their problems. My question for you is: ``Do you not want to join them?``

Mr. President,

Whether we like it or not, the world is gravitating towards faith in the Almighty and justice and the will of God will prevail over all things.


Vasalam Ala Man Ataba`al hoda

Mahmood Ahmadi-Nejad

President of the Islamic Republic of Iran

Masadi #99 {``The highlight of his miserable daily existance is gazing at women while he sips his latte. That is it, can you possibly not feel pity for that fool. ``}

Asadi Sahib,
Rather than pity the old fool, I am envious of him. Also, I resent him for his selfishness in debauchery. If it was just latte that he sipped, I would forgive him, but would you believe that he drinks alcohol while doing the haram gaze? I am the one who gazes in misery at all the people enjoying their booze while i am stuck with the cappuccino, :(

RE# 87 RAS
{{{{..... His remark on India was not off the mark.

Pakistan is just as bad}}}}}}

PAKISTAN IS JUST AS BAD?

We should have discussions here in true democratic spirit. But the above HUMBUG/HYPOCRITICAL statment of the author should not go unchallenged.
I`ll have to repost one of my earlier postings:

Such hypocrisy can be given a modicum of respect if following were the case:


(1) Pakistan`s constituition declares that all human beings are
equal citizens under the constituition

(2) Evidence on the ground that Pakistan is struggling or
has been trying to implement such a constituition as India has been trying

(3)If there had been efforts to have a 14% Hindu population in
present day Pakistan

(4)If they appoint a Hindu as a President or PM for propaganda
sake (as they consider our election of Muslim presidents)

(5) If they do anything remotely positive to allow the Indian muslims to
live peacefully with their neighbours...

the list is long......

Salim_Chauhan writes

<<< Hamidum Sahib,
While we are eye to eye, cheek to cheek, and shoulder to shoulder on this subject of ISNA/ICNA/CHICKNA/MSA/ALKayda/TallyBan/ISI/MSA/CAIR/LeT/SeS/JUI/JI/MMA, please acknowledge Mr. Masadi as also being totally out of synchronization with this group of self-promoting, self-righteous, trumpet blowers. >>>

Hamidm knows it but he repeats falsehood because he does not care about the truth. Bigots and hate mongers, supporters of tyranny act in this dishonest fashion regardless of the facts. I`m sure you know that about people like that dumb A.H hamidm. The highlight of his miserable dialy existance is gazing at women while he sips his latte. That is it, can you possibly not feel pity for that fool.

Ras:

The gap you are talking about U.S. and Islam, exists for almost all ethnicities, and among divisions within the main line. There was a time even jewish Americans suffered from it.

The challege for Islamic communitiy as I see, is to equally, if not more forcefully, counter bad news in the main media with the good side too. For example, whenever there is a bad new report.... Muslim Americans must demand equal opportunity to speak out and send their message of what good muslims are doing for non-muslims in today`s world. Obviously the alternative message cannot be recitation of Quran. I am confident there enough Muslims to articulate such message and effectively use the equal time to speak out. You can indeed be one such person.

Anil



Anil

Inquirer #93 {``Re: # 77 Salim Sahab: I did not say any word about the why of vivisection. I only documented the fact that inspite of the partition, irrespective of who did it, the Hindus gave Muslims equal right of vote which still does not exist for Hindus in Pakistan.``}

Inquirer mere bhai,
The Government of Pakistan has been extremely fair in its denial of the right to vote. Neither Muslim nor any other religious element has the right to vote. I don`t think that India and the Hindus have a prayer`s chance in hell to match this unblemished record. Thanks.

#76 Hamidm2 writes:

<<< masadi,

..... you might reject your brothers of a slightly different feather but your ``stand on the Quran as the only authority on Islam`` puts you in the same flock of america-haters ..... your cockamamie denials do not improve your credibility >>>

Once again this idiot does not have a clue about issues and absurdities flow as freely from his dung infested mouth as industrial waste in this capitalist heaven.

Accepting the Quran as the only authority on Islam is a fact of history and has nothing to do with hating or loving America. His conclusion is so far detached from his permise that to claim a non sequitur on my part would be a disgrace to all non sequiturs. Further, I am not trying to state facts and what I accept to ``improve my credibility``. I care less what A.Hs like him or any one else thinks about me or what I accept or believe. He knows that my condemnation is directed at the barbarous elite that are ruining the world and not the American people yet he keeps equating that with ``hating America``. If America = US elite then yes I hate America and I will never back off from hating it until these elite change their policies. But America is not defined by its elite, a nation is defined by its people and those people in America are the victims of this same elite. If I hated them, I wouldn`t care less what these elite are doing to them or the rest of the world.

When you know something but keep repeating it so that you can increase the frequency with which you plant your lips firmly on the A$$ of the U.S. elite while having no concern for truth or fact or justice, the title that adequatly define your kind (of pathetic losers) are A.H.

Reality has a well-known anti-islam/anti-Pakistan bias