The Gap: Can the USA and Islam Bridge It?

#103 by masadi

“Ahmedinejad has no clue about how things work in the US and its political establishment. Here, economic forces much more than any religious motivation drives decisions and keeps them uniform. He is living in his dream world and using rhetoric that serves as fuel for these sob US elite criminals to justify their many perversions.”

Masadi Sahed....this time you got it really right! Ahmedinejad comes out as a buffoon who mouths those dialogues like a stereotypical cheap terrorist from an American thriller .............this guy is undoubtedly an illiterate idiot and a lunatic and anyone praising him certainly shares his stupidity......... the US establishment is certainly pleased to have him mouth those cheap dialogues...................

``Tariq bin Ziad had justified his invasion of Spain by saying ``Har mulk milke maa ast kih milke khudae maa ast` (Everything is Allah`s and Allah is mine and so everything is mine). So one can appropriate Allah to appropriate every thing, of course, if one has appropriate might to do so.``(tshah)

Tariq bin Ziad illegitimate born-again child Bush bin Bush said the same thing before he invaded Iraq -- ``Iraq doesn`t belong to Saddam -- Iraq belongs to Democrazy -- and since Democrazy is my personal property -- Iraq is mine``..

......thanks for explaining Iraq invasion -- tshah

Re: # 134

nasah

Thank you for updating me about Bush`s invasion of Iraq. But the real object in both the cases was quite different. While Tariq wanted to Islamize Spain, especially the `kafir` spanish ladies, Bush wanted WMDs which was actually oil of Iraq. So it is the same wolf and lamb story, meaning `might is right`, being repeated in history over and over again.

# 138 by zeemax

``Islam recognised this without pretenses and termed the only and ultimate reality as `Allah`. Everything else was dispensable``.

The basic Kalima of Islam is `La ilaha ilillah` (There is no god but God). Mushrakeene Makkah also believed in Allah of Islam. What Islam wanted, however, was negation of the gods which it considered to be false. But now a new religion called `Ishqe Rasool` is replacing Islam`s Allah even and everything which was indispensable.

#131 by kaalchakra

[Humanity will one day overcome Islam because it must?

My friend, let`s hope you are not into horse racing. You could lose a lot of money backing horses that will win because they must. ]


Nope, I was just being optimistic.

But I`ll write down your horseracing tip in my notebook. Thanks for caring, old friend.

Krishna_abcd

Humanity will one day overcome Islam because it must?

My friend, let`s hope you are not into horse racing. You could lose a lot of money backing horses that will win because they must.

Chavez sees oil at $100 a barrel if US hits Iran
Sun May 14, 2006 3:31 PM ET
Reuters (http://today.reuters.com/business/newsarticle.aspx?type=ousiv&storyID=2006-05-14T193049Z_01_L1440203_RTRIDST_0_BUSINESSPRO-VENEZUELA-BRITAIN-DC.XML )

By Gideon Long

LONDON (Reuters) - Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez said on Sunday that if the United States attacked Iran in its dispute with Tehran over nuclear technology, the price of oil could soar to triple figures.

Visiting London following an EU-Latin American summit in Vienna at the weekend, Chavez, leader of the world`s fifth largest oil exporter, said the Iranians would have no choice but to respond to a U.S. assault by cutting oil production.

``If the United States attacks Iran ... oil could reach $100 a barrel or more,`` Chavez told a meeting hosted by London`s left-wing mayor Ken Livingstone. ``The English middle classes would have to stop using their cars.``

``If they attack Iran, the Iranians will cut off their supply of oil. We would do the same if we were attacked. We would cut off our oil,`` Chavez told around 1,000 British leftists and trade unionists. ``Moreover, Iran has said it would attack Israel, and I know they have the wherewithal to do so.``

The United States and European Union is putting pressure on Iran to halt uranium enrichment, which Tehran says it wants for peaceful nuclear power. The White House has refused to rule out military action although it is pursuing a diplomatic settlement.

The oil price has rocketed in recent years to around $70 a barrel, pouring billions of dollars into Venezuela`s economy and fuelling Chavez`s self-styled socialist Bolivarian revolution.

``If they attack Iran I think it will be far worse than the situation is in Iraq,`` Chavez said, describing the Iraq as ``the Vietnam of the 21st century.``

Chavez was welcomed to London by Livingstone, who opened the meeting by accusing President Bush of running ``a gangster regime.``

``We salute you Mr President,`` Livingstone told Chavez. ``Londoners stand with you, not with the oil companies and the oligarchs.``

Chavez is in London for two days to meet various figures from the British left. He will not meet British Prime Minister Tony Blair, who he criticized for his close alliance with Washington.

The ex-soldier was greeted by jubilant supporters as he took the platform in a stuccoed ballroom. Hundreds more gathered outside in a futile bid to hear him speak. The atmosphere inside was more like a rock concert than a political meeting.

Young Chavez supporters, clad in Venezuela`s red, blue and yellow colors, banged drums, waved placards and chanted the president`s name until he took the stage -- nearly two hours later than scheduled.

In a speech broadcast in Venezuela as Chavez`s regular ``Alo Presidente`` program, Chavez extolled the virtues of Fidel Castro`s Cuban government.

Chavez, Castro and Bolivian President Evo Morales are at the vanguard of Latin America`s recent shift to the political left.

Zeemax writes in #124 <<< Masadi, who gives a flying fcuk how things work in the US. This is about Islam. It has nothing to do with how US or anyone else operates. This is about how `we` operate. Including Osama Bin Laden whom you keep knocking for no reason. Where is he anyway? And what role did he play in `terror` ? >>>

Ahmedenajad wrote a letter to the US President (not to Khalifa Omar) trying to influence him (on the face of it atleast) using religious rhetoric trying to make points about political and economic issues. Things do not work in this fashion in the US, religion here is a dependent variable that is pushed for use but is never the pusher in global decisions. It is like speaking in Arabic to an English speaker, what part of that communication will get through? That was my point, not that I am concerned about what is important to the tyrannous US elite, that is not at all important to the masses in the world, I made that explicitly clear in my post. (By the way, UBL is a damn fool who is strengthening US hegemony around the globe, a useful idiot and little else).

Then Zeemax writes <<< Islam states that `All land belongs to Allah`. All `wealth` belongs to Allah`. Nothing belongs to anyone else. If Allah bestows wealth on anyone, it is his `duty` to distribute in the `way` of Allah. Allah bestowed it all and Allah can take it away.

That is the simple solution to all economic problems. When possessions become your own to keep and multiply, that creates chaos and disorder. When you believe it is bestowed, you gain a sense of responsibility to distribute. >>>

When have I said that everything belongs to people? So who are you arguing against? I will however add that humankind as ``trustee`` does not mean that they use the name of Allah to take away what has been entrusted to others. That is just BS and a misuse and abuse of Islam, and your Mullah friends have often done that , justifying any and all perverions by using the name of Allah or attributing things to the prophet as ``hadith``.

For you people, their saying and doings, real or forged, represent Islam, for me the Quran is the only representation of what Islam is. Both history and the Quran support my claim of what Islam is rather than yours.

HP writes in #123 <<< That is correct but why do you think they are still allies? Political and national alliances are formed and dropped when situation changes. They may have cooperated with the US or the Brits in 1953 but now they don’t need to. I agree that they are not people’s reps so they will do what is in their best interest and if that means being friends with the US in future, they will do that too. >>>

Why I think they are still allies is 1) Iraq and Afghanistan and how US and the Mullahs in Iran`s interests have converged 2) Like I mentioned in my post about Ahmadenejad, he is taking what the US elite considers important, the Iran nuclear issue, as the issue he is going to be most concerned with while ignoring the real problems that face the Iranian people, and by doing that not only are the motives of the US elite fulfilled but this mullah regime gets strengthened in Iran as well as people rally around them faced with by external enemy whom they are faciing with (feigned) courage.

``Islam states that `All land belongs to Allah`. All `wealth` belongs to Allah`. Nothing belongs to anyone else. If Allah bestows wealth on anyone, it is his `duty` to distribute in the `way` of Allah. Allah bestowed it all and Allah can take it away. ``

---

Indeed. Allah is the ultimate tyrant.

Re: # 126

Nothing left even for God, Khuda, Bhagwan ... to name the few of his ilk. As for the poor humans the hell is their`s to be filled in by them. Tariq bin Ziad had justified his invasion of Spain by saying ``Har mulk milke maa ast kih milke khudae maa ast` (Everything is Allah`s and Allah is mine and so everything is mine). So one can appropriate Allah to appropriate every thing, of course, if one has appropriate might to do so.

Re: #124 by zeemax

You know, zeemax, I have always thought that you are very different from the rest of the Chowk posters. I was impressed the first time I read a post from you with your analysis of Islam. It was objective and precise. And then you confirmed this in my mind once again when one day I saw you quote Somerset Maugham`s ``The Summing Up`` - ``the only thing that you can be sure about is that you cannot be sure about anything``. That used to be one of my favorite quotes. To have read that book and noticed that quote indicates a thinking and inquisitive mind.

The remarkable thing about your posts about Islam is that you cut through all the bullshit to the heart of the issue. Like anyone who has read the Islamic doctrine objectively, you have realized what Islam is at its core - a socio-political movement that seeks to eliminate all else. And yes, I agree that it ``cannot be compared with anyone else``. Even Stalinism fell with the death of the leader. But with Islam, the unseen hand of your prophet is at the throat of every follower 1400 years after his death. It is quite remarkable. Every cult seeks to silence critics and intellectuals through fear and intimidation. In the Stalinist era, nobody dared to whisper anything bad about Stalin or Stalinism - some party worker might
overhear! Public defiance is punished. Public

Look at Mohammed Gill and his attempts to criticize Islam. For every line of criticism, he has to vouch for his allegiance to ``The Cause`` with three lines of praise, often contradicting himself in the process. In what other religion do people live in such constant fear? The one or two Muslims who do criticize openly live in the US, out of reach of the ``party workers`` for all practical purposes.

There IS freedom in Islam - freedom to enlist, or die. Either violently, or through slow, inexorable attrition.

You do have your limitations, though. For someone who agrees with ``the only thing that you can be sure about is that you cannot be sure about anything``, you seem very sure of your facts when you say ``This is the only way to go as a belief system``. Yes, it might be the only way to go if ``might is right``, and Islam eventually devours all else. But you cannot possibly KNOW that Islam will devour all else.

Also, if you subscribe to the ``might is right`` theory, then would you say that if someone is stronger than you then he has a ``right``, for example, to rob you of your money whenever they want, or slap you around whenever he feels like it? That is a barbaric vision, incompatible with humanity. Might is NOT right, my friend, although in a myopic vision, it might seem that way.

Humanity will one day overcome Islam, not because I am sure about that, but because it must. It`s either that, or eternal slavery (obedience) of the mind for all humankind. The battlelines are drawn (although liberals and Islamic apologists try to blur the lines), the choices are clear.

Let humanity prevail.

Re: # 125
{{{{{{{Humanity will one day overcome Islam, not because I am sure about that, but because it must. It`s either that, or eternal slavery (obedience) of the mind for all humankind. The battlelines are drawn (although liberals and Islamic apologists try to blur the lines), the choices are clear.

Let humanity prevail. }}}}}

Beautiful. Eloquent. Well said. Especially the one about ``liberals`` blurring the lines.


As some one posted earlier here an illiterate who blows himself up is a Sufi saint, compared to the charlatans here and Muqtedar Khan- the real enemies that humanity must overcome. Remember we are all muslims ....we are just lost ... we have the option of ``realizing`` this folly.... and reverting to Islam.

It is amusing to see them condemning Osama...

#119 by masadi

The wording of his letter shows extreme naivety on how things work in the US.

Masadi, who gives a flying fcuk how things work in the US. This is about Islam. It has nothing to do with how US or anyone else operates. This is about how `we` operate. Including Osama Bin Laden whom you keep knocking for no reason. Where is he anyway? And what role did he play in `terror` ?

Islam is a radically different system and cannot be compared with anyone else.

Islam states that `All land belongs to Allah`. All `wealth` belongs to Allah`. Nothing belongs to anyone else. If Allah bestows wealth on anyone, it is his `duty` to distribute in the `way` of Allah. Allah bestowed it all and Allah can take it away.

That is the simple solution to all economic problems. When possessions become your own to keep and multiply, that creates chaos and disorder. When you believe it is bestowed, you gain a sense of responsibility to distribute.

This was said 1400 years ago and was always valid. This is the only way to go as a belief system.

You, Sir, are discrediting Islam by your meaningless rhetoric and creating enemies of Islam while it is a totally rational system. I carefully say `system` because I don`t give a damn about `religions`, I only stress on `systems`.

#119 by masadi

“The US brought him to power by consolidating public opinion in Iran around the nuclear issue which happened to be his main point of no compromise.”

So the US indirectly helped him come to power. That must be a circuitry route thru the heart of Qum. You see the nuke issue helps both parties so it will stay whether it is thru him or any other source. How much influence he wields? It is not more than the grand Imam or the grand council. If he does not have more power than them, then he is just a useful idiot which both (US and Mullah) could use. So the indirect credit to the US is a long shot but the direct beneficiaries are the people who brought him to the power.

The power structure in Iran is such that it is not possible for him to say things he is not authorized to say. He is doing his thing with full approval from the Grand Council and the confrontation with the US is in the council’s interest too.
The guy may be idiot but he is shilling for people behind him. He is not solely responsible for his statements.

“These ayatollahs sided with the British and the Americans when they got rid of Mossadeq, when the shah got too powerful they once again conspired with them for a transfer of power”

That is correct but why do you think they are still allies? Political and national alliances are formed and dropped when situation changes. They may have cooperated with the US or the Brits in 1953 but now they don’t need to. I agree that they are not people’s reps so they will do what is in their best interest and if that means being friends with the US in future, they will do that too.

“It is merely a cat and mouse game where the opponents are not actual opponents at all (in my opinion). The mullahs and the US elite are bedfellows.”

I kind of agree that this conflict is fake and totally manufactured and both sides would continue to escalate the conflict until one is completely suckered into it. Who would be the eventual loser we don’t know yet. Ideologically they are close, if not exactly the bedfellows.

Can anybody please tell me about the contents of the letter written to the government of Germany by Aamir Cheema who committed suicide in a jail in Germany recently after his failed attempt to kill the editor of the German paper publishing the Danish Cartoons? I wonder why so much secrecy is being observed in this case.

The State Department official at this event will be the guest of Omar Khan on GEO TV`s

Jaiza program tomorrow (Sunday).......


Interview with Mr. Rob Tappan, A U.S. State Dept. Official working for Under Secretary Karen Hughes and Secretary of State Condeleeza Rice.



- Global perceptions of the U.S. foreign policy

- How does the administration rate the progress in Iraq/Afghanistan

- Pakistan`s Role - Why is the U.S. a fair weather friend?

- Pakistan vs. India - The changing relationship

- Al Jazeera Network vs. Fox

- Muslim Americans - Tired of profiling - Need Answers



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Friday 5:05 p.m. Eastern

Channel 620 GEO TV on Dish Network



P.S: GEO programming subject to change at the last minute due to changing news events or specials



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Jaiza Team