The Gap: Can the USA and Islam Bridge It?

#83 bharath

Good catch, I missed some of Shri Muqtedar soft islamist-type comments.

Overall I think he is on the right track; Malaysia and Turkey are reasonable societies with strong muslim influence. The main problem is in the culture and islam of the middle-east; unfortunately, pakistan, which regards itself as more arab than the arabs has now copied this flavor of islam. As these people are culturally indian, they have to express this arabism thru more and more extremism. This also has slowly some impact on Bangladesh and Indian muslims.

I wonder why Malaysia has much less impact on Bangladesh and IM than Saudi Arabia. Is it just the saudi oil money which is used to teach hatred and dis-respect for others? Is it like a colonial inferiority complex which places arabs and saudis at a higher-level than others? A deeper investigation would be revealing.

as long as we Muslims men carry our unreformed unmodernized backward medieval evangelical religion in our sleeves -- jamming under a Bedouin tent -- as Islamic snake handlers -- with our women parading on the Western streets in Halloween Headgear at Christmas Eve.....

.....the gap will remain a gaping Canyon........ remember your English alphabet -- the capital A is for America...THE small a is for -- ASSIMILATE......ASSIMILATE....want to live here for ever....you will ASSIMILATE.

Want to live in WEST -- we HAVE to Westernize -- NOT Easternize......that will be silly

re#81,
Salim Bhai,
this is a general comment, i am not saying you do this:

Any time when riots are instigated where people of one religion go around and kill unarmed civilians of another religion, and (with government machinery looking at the other way or worse actively participating) ......
....it severly undermines and shakes the very fundamentals/ foundations of the country. Any sane person should condemn this/ bash this. No doubt out this. Shameful.


Also we should all be skeptical about some people who claim that they luv India etc, but have absolutely no plans whatsoever for reconciliation with other groups.

Having said that....
People who beleive or claim that thre is no political muslim extremism, people who refuse to acknowledge that such extremism and intimidatory politics drive and sustain
Hindu extremism are ostriches with thier heads tightly inside the sand....

yet this is what goes around as secularism in India. Thus all muslims are secularists, Muslim parties are secular parties.........and any one who remotely critizes muslim extremism is instantly labelled communalist.

Here is an extract from pmishraji`s web link:

Dr. Muqtedar Khan: The maqasid (objectives) of the Sharia is to establish social justice, equality, tolerance, and freedom of religion in societies

Dr. Daniel Pipes: Professor Khan confidently tells us that the Sharia as he understands it will ``establish social justice and coexist harmoniously with a democratic polity.`` But this is argument by assertion. He has not provided any basis for this optimism. So far, the record in countries where the Sharia is applied -- Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Sudan, Afghanistan -- is less than encouraging.

the Sharia harks back to a decidedly antidemocratic sensibility in everything from its emphasis on God`s will (not popular sovereignty) to its privileging of Muslims over non-Muslims. For Muslims to develop functioning democracies requires that they put aside the Sharia or transmute it into something quite different from what it is understood to be today.

More about Shri Muqtedar Khan. Overall, I would say he seems a reasonable guy. I think it is reasonable to bash Modi and India by extension given the murder and killings in Gujarat.


http://www.danielpipes.org/article/1167

#78, Bharath Bhai,
Thank you for your kind explanation. Seriously, I resent Dr. Muqtedar Khan for making such an asinine statement. It is hypothetical, insulting to BOTH Americans and Indians, and most of all insulting to Muslims for not being able to control terrorists among us. Instead he wants Muslims to compare the victims` calm and patience in reacting to terrorism. The good people are the ones who can die in peace and not resort to violence of their own. Wah wah - what about putting an end to terrorism in the first place. And they gave a PhD to this moron?

Inquirer, mohar

Please let`s be careful here. If anyone should be in the clear, it is the Muslims who stayed back in India, who chose to be Indians - at a time when the killer tornado or fear, uncertainty, and hatred had been let loose.

About the post 1947 mess, nobody - neither Hindu extremists nor Muslim extremists - is to be blamed even remotely, except for Hindu liberals.

Re: # 79: Please define Hindu liberals.

Re: # 79 kaal

Yeah, yeah - we know all that... at this time, that point is moot - nobody questioning who chose stay back where... or who to be blamed for what...

the point here is - just stop rioting at the drop of a hat... if you are not satisfied with way things are - well, find non-violent way to get them to your liking... there are ample avenues open for a civilized solution to disputes...

Riot-me-a-river mindset will get you nowhere... it will get a lot of agony for everybody - those who chose to riot and innocent bystanders...

Enough is enough... this kind of non-sense has to stop...

Inquirer #66 {``INDIA GAVE RIGHT OF VOTES TO THE PEOPLE WHO LED TO ITS VIVISECTION. WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT?``}

Inquirer Sahib,
If you are referring to the act of partition itself, please allow me to disagree. Partition was effected by neither a referendum nor a plebiscite. It was merely a rapid, selfish, and insidious exercise in power grabbing by both ML and Congress stalwarts. The British decided to leave, Mountbatten placed an ultimatum, and the desis got intimidated into making rash decisions. Then everybody started killing, butchering, raping, burning, running, escaping, and blaming. A typical Chinese fire-drill - except performed by brown people in all their shameless glory of gore and lust.

Re: # 77 Salim Sahab: I did not say any word about the why of vivisection. I only documented the fact that inspite of the partition, irrespective of who did it, the Hindus gave Muslims equal right of vote which still does not exist for Hindus in Pakistan.

hamidum2 #65 {``most muslims as represented by the icna, isna, cair and msa are totally out of sync with normal/regular americans ......... masadi is a prime example``}

Hamidum Sahib,
While we are eye to eye, cheek to cheek, and shoulder to shoulder on this subject of ISNA/ICNA/CHICKNA/MSA/ALKayda/TallyBan/ISI/MSA/CAIR/LeT/SeS/JUI/JI/MMA, please acknowledge Mr. Masadi as also being totally out of synchronization with this group of self-promoting, self-righteous, trumpet blowers. I would easily dismiss them as nutcases, quacks, and people whose elevator doesn`t go all the way up, but unfortunately, these morons have plenty of time, lots of money, and even more desire to be humiliated than Enron executives.

#72 by mohar11

dil Pur mUtt ley yaar. MeiN hooN naaN!

#69, bharath {``One muslim dies in Gujarat there is immediate verbal violence..from muslim apologists...
THey don`t display such verbal violence (not even remotely close) when it comes to politcal muslim extremism....``}

Bharath Bhai,
Look at my post #32. I was the first one to object to Dr. Muqtedar Khan`s nonsensical statement about what would have happened in India had 9/11 happened there. And yes, I happen to be a Pakistani Muslim.

Also, more than one person died in Gujarat. :)

Re: # 71
Salim Bhai,
I didn`t refer to you at all....
and definitely i won`t call you a muslim apologist either..


regards,

The writing is behind the wall-paper.

The gap is being bridged: by US people themselves.

With their aging secularoo liberaloo population, an aversion to breeding, alternate-orifice syndromes, women`s `advancement`, self-aquired ailments and fruits-of-progress like built-in obesity & several unmentionables--the gap IS being bridged bit by bit.

``Husn khuud baitaab hai jalva dikhaanay kay liyay``
tr:She is herself restless and eager to unveil her charms

The marginal-muslims, eager to mainstream following this route, can look forward to such ``Natural`` kirya-kirims. Praans do get released from this baans-budhhee.

In the meantime the tide of coversions among ``heritage`` Americans, even among the top echelons, Latin Americans, Afro-Americans, and the return to fundamentals by youths of the
Abrahamic faiths (even when there are violent differences, they are still family) is a harbinger of a good gapless USA.

``BUlaa sey hUm ney naa daikhaa, toa aur daikhaiN gey
Faroagh-i Gulshan-O saut-i hazaar kaa mausam``

tr: Ok so if we are not there, others will be(there) to see
The days when the garden`ll bloom, the nightingale`ll sing

Re: # 70
[...The days when the garden`ll bloom, the nightingale`ll sing...]

And echo mian will dance,
hand in hand
with sandwitch mullah :))