The Fertility Debate

Re: # 14

Zeena: ``I have witnessed millions of women going for backstreet abortions in highly unsanitary conditions induced by mid wives ..... In America, where abortion is legal, there are almost no abortion induced complications. ``

Now, how did you manage to ``witness`` such crimes - committed by ``millions of women``, and that too in the ``backstreets``? Were you giving one, getting one, or videotaping/documenting one? And if you acutally did ``witness`` even one, doesn`t that make you an accomplice since abortion is after all a crime in Pakistan. In that case we may just have to add your name to the interpol search warrants along with BB.

Dear child, there ARE illegal abortions in Pakistan, and many of them according to some unofficial sources, but the numbers don`t even come close to even the first million.

As for abortions being legal in the USA, it is not so in all 50 states. I apologize for bursting your nascent made in America bubble, but there are plenty of ``abortion induced complications``. You just may have been too busy ``witnessing`` millions of Pakistani women getting illegal abortions to visit the United States of America you claim to be your homeland.

Please learn to use/be the blowhorn and don`t strain your brain lest you hurt yourself. But again, hints suffice the intelligent and it`s foolish to expect fools to understand anything.


On a side note:-

``Funny that most people in favor of abortion are alive`` - Benny Hill. Figure that out Sweetie.

:-)~~

Giving the benefit of doubt to the author, she may just have been commenting on the book and the views may not be entirely hers. Still, the article does not even fare average, because birth rates have little, if anything, to do with economics and/or education. However, infant and female mortality rates do.

But more to the point, family planning is permissible in Islam as already pointed out in one of the interacts. However, to understand the logic behind any permission, prohibition, order, etc in Islam, one must study the system as a whole. Discussing just a part by itself often does not suffice.

If we put the religion aside for a moment, ponder the following:

-for every child to be conceived there is a pair of chromosomes X and Y.
-XX produces female, and XY produces male
-women only produce X chromosomes, while men produce both
-therefore, the probability of conceiving a female child is 3:1
-in almost every demographic setting, women have a shorter reproductive cycle and even lifespan

Under the circumstances, when women outnumber men by 51:49, what would be the ratio between men and women if abortion is to be legalized and generalized as propagated by Feminazis and their deadbeat male supporters, and EVERYONE fell for family planning crap by the West and the UN? Doesn`t it explain the population decline in the Western hemisphere where now the governments are practically begging the women to have more children?

I`ve posted the following on another board and dare to post here again for your enlightment

“Europe is literally melting away like snow in the sun, slipping from 15.6 percent of the world population in 1950 to 10.2 percent in 1985 and 6.4 percent in 2025.” [World Population at The Turn of the Century, United Nations, New York, 1989, page 8.]

“If you look at Europe and then at other continents, the comparison is terrifying. In demographic terms, Europe is vanishing. Twenty or so years from now, our countries will be empty, and no matter what our technical strength, we shall be incapable of putting it to use” President Jacque Chirac.

“It cannot be expected that the most powerful military nations will sit still while other nations reverse the balance of power by the mere process of breeding.” (Bertrand Russel, Marriage and Morals, 1929)``








:-)~~

harimau #13 {``Actually, invading Turks introduced buggery to Bulgaria, condemning an entire nation!``}

Harry,
Obviously, you missed out on the recent ``Alexander`` flick. :) The Turks were banging their heads against the Great Wall of China when Alexander was kicking ass all over the Balkans (including Bulgaria, Thrace, and Macedonia), Asia Minor, Mesopotamia, Media, Persia. Oxiana, and India.

A good article. My mother is a family planning consultant and has worked in the most economically deprived areas of Pakistan. I am all for planned families, but I am not exactly a fan of abortions (unless they are done for health reasons). Every right comes with responsibilty. If a woman/man has the right to have control over her/his sex life then they should also be ready to take care of a new life when the condom rips.

I as a women and mother understand the need to be able to have children when you are economically, physically, psycologically and emotionally ready to have a child. Allah is the one who will provide for all souls that are on this earth but we are the ones who need to raise them as good human beings. Once my mohter worked in a very poor locality and a woman who was 20 yrs old already had 4 children and was pregnant with her fifth. The children she already had were sick, hungry, uneducated. What did the 5th child have to expect. But when the subject of family planning came up she was all for it but her elders used to say if you women will not have children then how will we get Imam`s and scholars!!! The locality had the most number of delinquents and drug users.

Family planning is not a woman or man issue. It is a mutual understanding and decision of both husband and wife.

Author, a higher fertility rate can result from a number of factors. Usually population segments that lag behind economically tend to have a higher birth rate, sometimes to provide additional wage earners, sometimes as a precaution/preemption against a higher child mortality rate, and sometimes simply because of heeding the advice of older female role models because of less independent individual thinking which can be due to less education. There is an inherent falult in the approach of labeling this phenomenon by religion. From reading your summary of the contents, it appears that the original authors have attempted to tread a difficult path - they tried to bring in and encourage a few more liberal concepts related to women`s choices without stepping on the toes of the religious powers. It is indeed sad that a man or a woman would have to look for the approval of a Mullah for something as personal as what you call ``azl`` in this writeup. The problem statement is faulty as well - it should not be whether certain practices are permissible under Islam or not - but why should the religion be allowed such a strong hold on the daily lives of individuals that things which are obvious to the eye need to be justified by using circuitous routes of argument.

#1

Escapist,

You must be an idoit Suni. I am sick and tired of your fu**en bulshit. You should shove those so called Holy books up your Suni A*s

God is Great.......

haideri

Brilliant article as always. So insightful.

Aslam644

Thanks! Some real number crunching, both historical and cross sectional, will be really useful in this area. If that has been done, then it should be more accessible to us ordinary folks.

It will be a hard area to research though. Put religion as a variable in any analysis; immediately, in addition to all other errors, people become far less interested in deriving results from data than in cooking up data from results.

A mediocre piece by a mediocre writer, needs editing too.

Kaalchakra
According to demographers fertility replacement level is 2.1 children per woman, when fertility drops below this level populations start to decline gradually.the following muslim countries fertility rates have dropped below this level, Turkey, Iran, Tunisia, Lebanon, Algeria, Kazakhstan, Bosnia. I don’t think there is a strong correlation between incomes and fertility, as the examples of UAE and Kuwait prove. I think there is a stronger correlation between female literacy, empowerment etc, and fertility rates.


http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/fields/2127.html

Kaalchakra
According to demographers fertility replacement level is 2.1 children per woman, when fertility drops below this level populations start to decline gradually.the following muslim countries fertility rates have dropped below this level, Turkey, Iran, Tunisia, Lebanon, Algeria, Kazakhstan, Bosnia. I don’t think there is a strong correlation between incomes and fertility, as the examples of UAE and Kuwait prove. I think there is a stronger correlation between female literacy, empowerment etc, and fertility rates.


http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/fields/2127.html

khurram, aslam644

Do you guys know of any good research in this area?

On side note:-

99.05% percent of anti-abortion leaders are men. 100% of them will never be pregnant. ~Planned Parenthood advertisement

Dear Writer

Very thoughtful article! I must say you have done an excellent job of putting it all together.

In my opinion abortion is every woman`s personal choice, right and decision to make with any pregnancy, either expected or unexpected.

I have seen women who are strongly against abortion, end up having one, when they end up having unexpected pregnancy. At that point, it becomes their own issue.

The countries where abortion is not legal, like Pakistan, I have witnessed millions of women going for backstreet abortions in highly unsanitary conditions induced by mid wives and they ended up in hospitals with either incomplete abortions, bleeding profusely, missed abortions, septic abortions, or with uterine ruptures and septicemia, hemorrhagic shocks, and majority of them died either at their homes or in hospitals due to all these complications of backstreet abortions.

Mostly, by the time they reached hospitals, it was too, late and they died at the spot.........

In America, where abortion is legal, there are almost no abortion induced complications.

Not only that every women has every right to her own body, she is not anyone`s slave to make this important decision by other`s choice.

Give them freedom of choice, don`t give them deaths.

Even if religious Mullahs raise slogans against abortions, abortions can`t be stopped.

As a result of this, majority of women in an effort to hide their abortions under the carpet loose their lives and their genitalias........................

Ref Salim_Chauhan #7

Actually, invading Turks introduced buggery to Bulgaria, condemning an entire nation!

contrary to popular belief,turkey, iran and algeria`s fertility rates have dropped to western levels, without the western social welfare,that is a grim prospect for elderly folks.