The Dark Side of Love

Doctor Sahib… the dark side of love? Is that the same as having sex with lights off?

You said, and I quote:

>>>In my clinical practice I have seen many patients in whom I feel jealousy was a reflection of personal insecurities. Such people had poor self-confidence and poor self-worth. They did not like themselves and were not proud of what they did. They felt either unattractive physically or uninteresting as people.<<<

Are you suggesting that only “jealous” people will have these attributes (of lack of self-worth, etc.)? I have a close friend who is so messed up that she is always attracted to losers (because she lacks self-confidence); here is her story: she was engaged to an guy for 4 years who turned out to be gay. She married a guy and they had sex only 4 times in their 2 year marriage, she just separated. She is the smartest woman I have ever known, but she lacks self confidence, and she would be anything but jealous even if she saw her husband or boyfriend screwing around in her face. Do you think that those who are self-confident can not be jealous? If jealousy is directly related to poor self-confidence (as you suggest) are there ways to predict the severity or control it? If it is a mental health issue, is there any chemical therapy available?

Nice and informative write-up as usual.

Re: # 1
Dear Kulharee...I like your sense of humour about having sex with lights off. I said to

a friend yesterday that English is an intersting language. When people say they are going to

sleep together, the last thing they are going to do is sleep. On a serious note

you brought an interesting question about the relationship between low self confidence

and jealousy. Many jealous people I met had low self confidence but people with low self

confidence may not necessarily be jealous. It will be like peope suffering from pneumonia

have fever but all people with fever may not have pnemonia.

People with low self conficence and low self worth might have other symptoms and other

self destructive tendencies...for example getting involved with `losers` who are alcoholics

or other serious emotional problems like the lady you talk about. Some of them feel they

do not deserve a happy and healthy loving relationship as they feel they are not worthy of

it. Other than some extreme cases of jealousy that border on paranoia and might respond

to some antipsychotic medications most do not do well with medications and need ongoing

psychotherapy. In my practice they do better with group therapy as compared to individual

therapy. If the spouse is supportive, couple therapy helps them too. sincerely sohail

Thank you Doctor Sahib, you obviously have wealth of knowledge in this area. Come to think of jealous people that I have come across in my interactions, they do confirm your findings of having low self-esteem. I am a dad of two teenage boys, and there is a fairly intense sibling rivalry going on. I don’t know if it is even borderline “jealousy”, because the younger one is more athletic and the older one feels a little insecure about sports, and while they play together and have mutual friends; they don’t miss a chance to outdo one another.

However, there are outspoken critics who insist it`s a fraud perpetrated by the psychiatric and pharmaceutical industries on families anxious to understand ...
from PBS--the most respected TV channel



Why Psychiatry Should Be Abolished as a Medical Specialty
Read what even the insiders say.

The Antipsychiatry Coalition is a nonprofit volunteer group consisting of people who feel we have been harmed by psychiatry - and of our supporters. We created this website to warn you of the harm routinely inflicted on those who receive psychiatric ``treatment`` and to promote the democratic ideal of liberty for all law-abiding people that has been abandoned in the U.S.A., Canada, and other supposedly democratic nations

Re: # 4

Dear echoboom....thank you for your honest comments. Although I was trained as a

psychiatrist, yet I practice humanistic growth oriented psychotherapy. I have a lot of

respect for people like RD Laing who challenged traditional psychiatry. I think no discipline

in the world is perfect. They all have a dark and a bright side, like love. Just because love

has a dark side, we cannot ignore or overlook the bright side. Similarly medicine and

psychiatry and even psychotherapy has a dark side that we need to be careful. Anyone

who can help us can also hurt us. That is why we need more education and more dialogue

that is sincere and genuine and honest.

My father had a nervous breakdown when I was ten and he was treated with shock

treatment in Pakistan and my religious conservative family took him to peers and faqeers

for religious treatment. He had a masters in Mathematics and was a lecturer. He refused

treatment that was not based on scientific principles. Growing up in such a family I strongly

believe that people with emotional problems need a compassionate and humanistic

treatment. We need to offer patients and families choices and help them make enlightened

choices. Mental Illness is still a stigma in most countries and treatment of Mental Health

Problems is still in its infancy. Hopefully one of these days we would have a better

understanding of brain and mind and personality and deal with issues more scientifically.

It is still a mystery. The difference is that some of us are more in the dark than others and

some more willing to accept than others. Thanks for your feedback. sincerely sohail

Re: # 3
Dear Kulharee...Sibling rivalry is common. Lucky are the children who feel loved for who

they are rather than what they do or perform. Gradually most of us discover our

uniqueness and individuality and cherish it rather than comparing us to others. I think your

children are lucky to have a sensitive dad like you. sincerely sohail

``...many jealous people have great difficulties differentiating between innocent flirting and unfaithfulness...``

I agree that there is a line between the two, drawn by fear or guilt, but there is no such things as ``innocent`` flirting. Has anyone ever felt a pang or even a hint of innocence while flirting? People flirt to experience the thirll that they may be missing in their otherwise ``innocent`` lives!

Dear Dr. Sohail

I am not clear about this article. What are you discussing here?

Jealousy? Jealousy in which terms? Is it pathologic jealousy?

Or are you labeling a normal emotional human reaction in terms of sharing loved ones?

How come people come to you for treatment of normal human reaction of sharing loved ones, unless it is pathologic jealousy, which becomes out of control and they become danger to themselves or to others? Crossing all boundaries of human finesse and turning in to devils or monsters............That is the stage where they need insight oriented psychotherapy.

Normal emotional human reaction in terms of sharing loved ones is healthy emotion, which doesn`t need any therapy...............................

Lets talk about pathologic jealousy, which is the mental illness, called delusional jealousy.

The perfect example will be like you mentioned in your article, delusion of infidelity, which is a false belief derived from pathological jealousy about a person`s lover being unfaithful or in other words one`s mate is having an affair...................

Again are you talking about the jealous type of delusional disorder, which is also called conjugal paranoia and Othello syndrome when the delusion concerns the fidelity of the spouse.

If, you are referring to Othello Syndrome, then again sorry, your approach is quite not right in generalizing the term jealousy for all genders. B/c Othello Syndrome is the only one which needs Psychiatric treatment, in which men are much more commonly affected than women.

This jealous type of delusional disorder is extremely rare and it affects only less than 0.2% of all psychiatric population.

Now, what happened in this Othello Syndrome is it`s onset is often sudden, and symptoms may resolve only after the couple separates or the spouse dies.

A person with a jealous delusion can inflict significant verbal and physical abuse on the spouse and can even kill him or her.

In 1891, Krafft-Ebing(a well known psych). Emphasized the most frequent association between alcoholism and jealous delusions.

Also, it is quite interesting to know that people affected with the jealous type of delusional disorder (Othello Syndrome) may collect bits of,`` evidence`` such as disarrayed clothing and spots on the sheets and use them to justify the delusion.

Almost invariably, people with the delusion confront their spouses or lovers and may take extraordinary steps to intervene in the imagined infidelity. These attempts may include restricting autonomy by insisting that the spouse or lover never leave the house unaccompanied. secretly following the spouse or lover, and investigating the other ``lover.``

References:-Bentall RP, Hart JJ,Kennedy HG(Paranoid states and treatment modalities)

On side note:-
Othello Syndrome needs emergent hospitalization, stabilization with psych meds for agitation followed by outpatient long term psyhotherapy and family therapy(The most important element in the course of treatment).

Kullu, stop yanking his chain :)

There`s nothing particularly insightful in this article, big surprise. But I do feel that jealousy is a sign of insecurity in a relationship, from either or both sides. What it boils down to is to work hard at the relationship, and this requires efforts from both parties. Having said that, there are some people who are naturally more jealous than others- perhaps as a result of upbringing or genes or whatever, and may Lord bless them with understanding, indulgent spouses! Otherwise, it`s the road to hell!

The Dork Side of Love
BJ Kumar
May 18, 2006
As one who can not help loving couples as well as singles and divorcees - and feeling their emotional composts, I am always fascinated by the nature of jealousy. I used to ask myself: Is jealousy a normal or an abnormal feeling? Then I decided to go a step further and asked - am I normal or abnormal, or am I just a shrink?

That made me think.

Then the answer came back - it is an expression of an affliction, of carping and lust as well as a reflection of immaturity and insecurity. Going after coffee - when all one needed was tea!

Over the years, and under the covers, I have come to the realization that there are as many points of view as there are thinking people - which means that actually there aren`t that many. But if you probe deep enough and long enough the answer is sure to be found - or at least the pillow would be. Some believe in the German proverb that says, “Where there is no jealousy, there is no love”. Others think that Germans are completely out of style - except for German shepherds who will never go out of style. They instead go with Havelock Ellis who said something about dragons - though why anybody would go out with somebody who hobnobs with dragons beats me completely! Apparently, this fellow had some nasty experience with a dragon as captured so succintly in, “That dragon which slays love under the pretence of keeping it alive.” Most of us may not agree on the definition, nature and dynamics of being alive versus dead - because they are not exactly sure which one applies to them - but it is quite apparent that thay are jealous in a complex way of those who are - even though they are colorful and shady.

I am of the opinion that jealousy is the only feeling that can be called a triangular feeling - not to be confused with a rectangular feeling or a circular feeling - it was invented by the same political-type who invented the term ``trianglate``. This is different from what the desi population excels in - which is simply ``late``.

All other feelings are either personal in which the other person is not directly involved, for example feelings of tiredness or sadness - unless you happen to be the food which the first person seeks or you are the load that person carries; or they involve two people, for example, feelings of affection, caring and anger; jealousy is the only feeling in which three to four parties are involved, for example a woman who feels jealous because her husband is showing interest in another woman and not in another man like her. Similarly a husband might feel jealous if his wife is fascinated with another man and not in another woman like her. Sometime it can involve inanimate objects too - when one person is jealous of another person who wins a lottery - in which case he can not make up his or her mind who to beat up first - the other person, the lottery machine, or his spouse who did not allow him to buy that lottery ticket. So in this regard jealousy is far more complicated and multifaceted than many other feelings.

As we pursue jealousy deeper and try to understand jealous people - because we like to peel with jeal, the relationships in which they get involved and triangles or other geometric shapes they tend to make, we realize that what we see clinically or socially is usually the tip of the iceberg and there are complex dynamics and geometries that lie beneath the surface - into which I am drooling to sink my teeth.

In my duties outside Dr. Sohail`s clinical practice I have seen many patients in whom I feel jealousy was a reflection of personal insecurities. For example, there was this man who was holding an axe and looking all around him warily as he checked the nameplates. Such people had a poor bank balance and poor economic-worth and perhaps wanted to steal the doctor`s money. They did not like themselves and were not proud of what they did. They felt either unattractive physically or uninteresting as people - at least while going in. When they emerged, they were rolling in money, of course!

In many cases they had a poor self-image even before they entered into romantic relationships with the good doc. Their insecurity spilled over and they were feeling insecure about this relationship. They needed an abundance of reassurance and if their partners could not offer that constantly they felt very uncomfortable. It was hard for them to accept the reality that their lovers found them interesting and exciting - and I say that with a straight face. I met so many men and women who were pre-occupied with the following concerns:

-I don’t know what he/she finds interesting in me but not my hamster?
-I am not sure why he/she is married to me, but not to my hamster?
-I am not sure I am me and not a hamster!

It was easily cured - I convinced them that they needed to visit the shrink more often - which will cure them of the problem - they would be spending less time with their spouses because they will be spending more time on my couch!

When feelings of this type of insecurity are pervasive in the relationship, they act as dry hay and it does not take long to spark the fire of jealousy. So I pour water over the fire - by showing them an advance copy of the bill I plan to send to them. Depending upon the intensity of such feelings, even minor incidents or casual interaction with other men/women/shrinks can precipitate a crisis. Most of the jealous people I observed exhibited three distinct psychological characteristics in their personalities:

1. Comparing themselves with others. It is generally very hard to discuss other people with those that are jealous without them comparing themselves to others in a negative light. Jealous people have a tendency to feel inferior to others - because they are.

2. An inability to share their loved ones with others. Jealous people are usually very possessive and use the word MY emphatically. “She is MY girlfriend” “He is MY husband.” This emphasis is a subtle warning to others as if they are saying, “Stay away from him or her”. Sadly, none of them shows the courage to boldly claim - ``That is MY bill!`` - they just try to pretend ignorance.

3. Going absolute bananas and nuts.

In many of my patients I found that unresolved sibling rivalry as a child and an inability to share one’s parents’ affection with other siblings was an important factor in experiencing jealousy as an adult - of course, I think it is so because they told me so! You don`t expect me to have been watching them in their childhood, you fool!

When I asked what precipitated feelings of jealousy, they narrated a wide range of behaviours in their lover and spouse that made them extremely uncomfortable, such as:

“When he talks to other women at the party and leaves me alone I feel jealous. Then I dig into that cheesecake which makes me soooo fat!”

“I don’t mind her talking to other men but when she dances with them I feel jealous - it reminds me of the movie `dances with wolves` ”

“I hate when he comments on women’s boobs and buns when we go for a walk - but when I draw attention to mine, says `what boobs, what bun - you nun!`”

“I get jealous when she tells me that the actors on television are hulks - and I think they are more like the `incredible hulk`”

“I don’t mind him interacting with women in my presence but I cannot tolerate him going out with his colleagues for a cup of coffee after work - today it is coffee, before one knows it will be tea-time for me!”

“She can go for a cup of coffee but when they go for a beer I get jealous as I do no trust alcohol - I am wary of the effect it has on me!”

As we try to understand the dynamics of relationships in which jealousy plays a major role, we become aware that on the one hand, jealousy might be a symptom of personal insecurities, while on the other hand, it might reflect a lack of trust in the relationship, desire to control the other person, poor boundaries in the relationship or an attempt to avoid intimacy. Most of the time though, they simply hate me for making them pay. Without going into psychodynamic psycho mumbo-jumbos, details all I can say that the issues are complex and we need to tailor the therapy according to the personalities and wallets of spouses involved. In our clinic we use a combination of individual, marital and group therapy - depending on the best returns on investment. During individual and group therapy with jealous people we focus on the following:

Improving Self – esteem

It is amazing to see how insecure many are who accuse their spouses and lovers of paying too much attention to other people and being unfaithful and most importantly, spending a small fortune on shoes every Friday. Sometimes they are even jealous of their own children. During therapy it is expressed that until they feel good about themselves and enjoy what they do, they will have great difficulties in enjoying any emotionally and romantically intimate relationship - then they all rush to the shoe store!

Such people are encouraged to look better, dress more attractively - especially the shoes. I have a long-term contract with the local shoe store. Others are helped to take part in a hobby or sport for recreational purposes. It is rewarding to see that once they start liking themselves, make new friends and enjoying their new shoes and lives, they become less sensitive to what their lovers and spouses say or do - most of their time then goes into observing their reflected image in a shiny mirror.

Learning not to be oversensitive

In therapy, the jealous are made aware that many things in life and in their relationship have no direct relevance to them - they are morons! Being over-sensitive or taking things ‘personally’ does not help. They learn the role they play in maintaining tension in the relationship by asking too many unnecessary questions of their lovers and spouses. The spouses of jealous people find themselves in no-win situation. To answer or not to answer is their dilemma as they can be accused either way. We help jealous people to ask fewer questions - I detest scientists!

It is my observation as a therapist that many jealous people have great difficulties differentiating between innocent flirting - which is strictly a psychoanalytic mumbo-jumbo term so is not an oxymoron that you with the dirty mind are trying to think this very minute - and unfaithfulness which as the whole world knows, does not exist! I openly discuss with couples the issue of complementing someone on their looks and clothes - for example, if someone looks like a sweet dish then they should try to look like an achaar - and differentiating it from getting phone numbers, making dinner dates and arranging secretive weekend trips - not to be confused with whatever you are confusing it with now!

It is highlighted in therapy that jealousy clouds one’s judgment. The whole world knows, of course that there is nothing as bad as a cloud, making it so difficult to differentiate between reality and fantasy, which can border on paranoia. Perhaps that is why famed author Lawrence Durrell wrote, “It is not love that blinds, but jealousy that binds” and anonymous writer said, “There is more self-love than love in jealousy - but its price can be lousy”. The famed author should not be confused with Gerald Durrell who wrote ``A Zoo in My Luggage`` and ``My Family and Other Animals``!

During our therapy with jealous people we involve their spouses and lovers to help them cope with the situation. They are encouraged not to get defensive when they are accused - or atleast to express it differently, by pounding the couch, for example. Reassurance works better than defensiveness, but nothing beats hiding inside the loo. To force couples to reconcile, we have removed all rolls of tissue paper from the bathroom and only let them have it after they agree to be nice to each other. As couples come to some agreement in our clinic they are able to try those newly learnt skills in their homes and social lives - clutching on to those armloads of tissue rolls - I immediately set up their return appointments for the next six months!

Working with jealous people can be a challenging but is always a rewarding experience - because I collect the check up front. It is a painful reality that love has a dark side which often requires mucho greenbacks to address and sometimes we need to protect our love even from ourselves - before it drives us to the couch and bankruptcy.

Salam.
The article was pretty nice. Helped me understand me and alot of people around me. I have always felt I am upto no good. I am a female and of the age where girls in our society ought to `ccok and clean` but I have not a bit of interest in such. My younger sister does though and Mashallah she is awesome at it. I am not jealous of her or her cooking etc. but I feel as if I am incapable and of no use, thats how some elders in my family make me feel. Its no fault of my own that I don`t like such stuff, I am more interested in reading and talking and learnig about the business world etc. Now,I have learned that I am a unique creation myself..and its not necessary I cook to make people love me. heheh..

Anyway,
Jazak Allah.
A well written article.
take care
Allah Hafiz.

RE:-#11

bjkumar sahib

Haaaaaheeeehaaaheeee, gosh, this is soooo very hilarious....You are one little, haahee, Oh, God can`t help laughing...........

Jess,jess, jealousy is dark side of luvrrrrrreeeee.

BTW, bjkumar jii

Are you also Psychiatrist?

How od you treat jealousy sahiba?

Is jealousy treatable or not?

If, yes, what is the treatment modallity?
How many chances are that jealousy won`t be cured and will eat us up, especially loverssss?

Dr.Sohail jii

I am jealous of love. Whenever I see luvy duvy couples, I feel insecured and jealous.

I can not sleep, always restless due to jealousy?

I got very bad grades only due to jealousy. It`s killing me. I think now time has come for me to kill this curse.

Lately, I have been thinking of seeing a competent psychiatrist and here you`re for free or duno.....

Dr.Sahib

Which kind of insurance you accept. I have blue cross blue shield and HMO with full coverage and also third one is Aetna. Do you accept them?

Please, give me your phone number to make an appointment.
Do you see patients on week ends? I can only come saturday.

Regards
Zeena(with jealousy)

Dear Sohail

Traingle in jealousy, so true. I give you in example of triangle where can you say the jealousy may be taking birth. A couplet

Galay miltay hain, jab bichaday huay do saathi,
Adam hum be-saharon ko badi taqleef hoti hai.

Would you agree that melancholy is the starting point of jealousy and may be other behaviorial traits?

dr sohail sahab
there is another dark side of love little reported in the media.
in uk increasing numbers of indian men are marrying white memsahibs, which of course means a lot of indian women being left on the ``shelf`` with a lonely future of spinsterhood.