Miracles Can Happen

> If fanaticism was the answer Afghanistan would be free....
So, it is NOT free right now !
Per you, it was quite free when the talibs were in control .....huh ?

> We need to improve our global image, promote liberalism not by
> putting aside religion, but by promoting Islam and its liberal image ..

Dude, I got some bad news for ya...

Thank you Rafay! Finally a guy who gets it. I have a few points to add to your ideas:

1. Overseas Pakistanis need to be actively involved in lobbying for issues that they care about - by funding organizations in Pakistan who are trying to promote progressive thinking, by spreading awareness about the UnIslamic Hudood Laws and by eventually going back to Pakistan and using their skills and money to bring political and legislative change.

2. We need to support Musharraf - every overseas Pakistani needs to vote for him because he is the most progressive, most pragmatic leader we have - the best after Jinnah.

3. We need to use our media to eliminate the political power of fundamentalist political parties in NWFP and Balochistan - for this overseas Pakistanis can play a major role in providing the necessary funds and intellect.

4. We need to ensure provincial harmony. We need to create an environment where every ethnic group in Pakistan calls itself ``Pakistanis`` first and Pathan, Punjabi, Mohajir, Sindhi etc afterwards.

Rafay Sahib,
Neik khayalath aur acchay ke thummana, nice ideas and good intentions, but what to do bhai, this is the same country which refuses to acknowledge citizenship of it own ppl simply becose they are biharis as if though they were the untouchables, yet have no problem in assimilating 3million fair looking pakhtoons.

Good intentions cannot change anything of the basic vision or business model is flawed, whatever changes we see are mostly cosmetic and geared to st appeasement, status quo must be maintained at all costs ie supremacy of army+mulla+feudal nexus which has been haunting this country since inception.

Pakistan was created for Islam or its people? that sud be the starting point, once we get out of that hole then we can start behaving like human beings, until then we are and will continue to act better than others.

Rafay Sahib:

{we are waiting for a 360 degree turn yet no one is up for the task}

This would bring you back facing the same direction. You meant 180 degree, I hope.

Respectfully submitted,

Re: # 3

Instead of blaming Pakistan for your problems, try to do something about it. First of all, I haven`t heard anything about the ridiculous allegation you have posted here about biharis. If you have references, please post them with your posts.

Re: # 5
Either u r absolutely ignorant Pakistani who has no knowledge of their country or you were born yesterday. Plight of biharis in former East Pakistan (Bangladesh) at time of partition continues to this day, 250,000 Pakistani civilians (Biharis) chose Pakistan at time of East pakistans breakup in 1971, they have been languishing in makeshift camps since then. The mere fact that u r not aware of this human tragedy proves my point that Pakistan has no vision for its people, everything must revolve around spin stories, latest fashions or tribal associations.

Try doing something? what do u think this writing is supposed to do? To educate Pakistanis in general about their country, point out our weaknesses, highlight our mistakes so we do not repeat them and make sure we can discuss issues in a civilized manner.

Re: # 6

I was not aware of this situation, thank you for informing me. But I still will not berate my own country for that. If you`re a Pakistani, lobby for Biharis, run for office, write letters and form support groups, but don`t blame the country. We have had the most corrupt politicians and they are the ones responsible for this situation. We need to have better leaders and only then we can solve this problem.

`` The recent economic boom is a testament that changes can be brought about just by taking the right steps at the right time. At this point people question you, ``Is Pakistan really progressing?’`` The answer is yes. Pakistan has seen the worst type of bankruptcy and then raised its foreign reserves to 12 billion dollars. What do you call this? Isn’t this less than a miracle? My observation is miracles do happen, but in today’s day and age you have to start them. ``

You are right. Miracles can be mirages.

The transformation of Japan from feudal society to semi-industrial society in 1880s was a mircale.

Singapore`s development in the 1965-1985 time frame was spectacular.

China`s transformation after 1979 was a miracle.

`` We need to improve our global image, promote liberalism not by putting aside religion, but by promoting Islam and its liberal image. ``

If the underlying product is solid there is no need to promote ``image``

Dear Hassansiddiqui,

My comment on your point no 2.

We need to support the constitution and the supremacy of the constitution.

Re: # 7
You are most welcome.

Criticizing state policies is a must for healthy democracies, when ppl start censuring diverging viewpoints thats when authoritarianism and sometimes fascism slips in. Therefore, learn to take criticism, u do not have to believe it as long as u can find a better argument. Other than that enjoy life..

Re: # 2

Shri Siddiqui,

if point no 2 is correct I pity your nation.

You Muslims talk a lot about Khatam-e-Nabiwat (i.e end of prophethood) but then keep on inventing prophets (Upar Allah neeche...... [fill in the blanks Jinnah, Liaqat, Maudoodi, Mush etc]). Now do not start on Hindus hamare mein har ma ka yaar Bhagwan ban jaata hai no Khatam e Bhagwaniyat.

While criticism for its sake is ridiculous and counter productive, I am surprised that his various acts of ommision and commission starting from Kargil (forget the misadventure or casualties I ask his action to be brought into question w.r.t. a specific event namely of disowning his dead comrade in arms) to Attacks on fellow citizens in Baluchistan (the list is long and you would know it better than me) are not being questioned by a large segment of society and sorry to say but can you promote ``Progressive thinking`` by using Heli gun ships against fellow citizens. And unlike 1970`s Baluchi`s are not asking for independence merely more autonomy and share of revenue and no to colonisation from Punjab (I think Indian Punjoos are more enterprising in colonisation Tandoori Chicken, Salwar Kameez and Bhangra and guess what the rest of India is so stupid (or rather enamoured) it is not even complaining).

B.T.W as a post script I may add I hate the word progressive due to the fact it is associated with Commie traitors in my country so the long tirade.

I may have my Issues with islam and Mo but he was right on ending nabiwat. No more nabis are coming and neither is the 12th Imam (sorry shias) you are following islam (out of love, compulsion, birth take your pick) it has a certain code do`s and dont`s, get the famous Ijma amongst yourself (the only way to do so is democracy and acceptance of the same by everyone on what is a majority decision[and god forbid not tolerance]) but believe me there will be no Park Chung Hee`s in the Indian Subcontinet the same is not wired into our genetic code. The saviours of Pakistan and for that matter India (and I hate to say and admit it as I hate the hyphenation of our two countries and rubbish about being one people) will be the common citizens.

For India at least I can say one thing the biggest politician is the common citizen esp of the middle class (vaise in case you are non resident Paki ask your relatives how much they pay for a gas cylinder if I know correctly it is twice that of India as the GoP does not subsidise LPG for its ``very poor middle class`` citizens) the day he decides to look beyond his nose that day the Motherland will progress.

Regards
Sanatani

Re: # 9

Mr Manto,

supremacy of constitution is very noble. But there was a quote from a famous New York police Commisioner deposing before the Senate ``Every time I have to choose between protecting my fellow citizens over (following the constitution) I shall do so each time, every time and always and if it means shooting criminal scum like the mad dogs they are I shall do so (and make my officers do the same) once, twice and every time, and Sirs I challenge you to do something about it``.

In America the Senate is a very powerful body but this time it chose discretion over valour. Even the American SC chose not to take up the challenge.

More than constitution it is how we feel about our fellow citizens. Ours is the world longest constitution. A fat lot of good it has done the average Bhartiya and indeed in some ways it has even become an impediment in Justice.

Man is inherently selfish or let us elevate him and say has self interest. But till there is enlightened self interest there can be no progress. America`s rise is precisley because fo this enlightened self interest.

I`ll quote you an example a friends Mama has 120 acres of Land in Bihar he is a Bhumihar by caste. He entered into an agreement with a Sardar that I will lease you 20 acres we will share costs in the ratio 2:1 (2 for Sardar and 1 for him) and divide profits on Bantedari (sharing). This went on for three years and both made good money. Sardar noticed that the other 100 acres which were worked by Khet Mazdoors were not doing well due to poor farming practices(indeed he earned twice from sardar than the rest of the land). Sardar told him let me teach your khet mazdoor farming but you will have to do baantedari with them. Bhumihar went mad with anger and nearly shot at the Sardar. Later he apologised and said these are low cast people and I lost my cool with you as you proposed that I do sharing with them implies equality with them that is unacceptable. Sardar got angry walked out on the agreement leaving crops standing half matured. Guess by how much the yield fell by 90% as no one knew how to do the intensive cultivation the Sardar practised.

Now the post script. From the money he saved Sardar brought land in interior Rohtas district for a song. He taught farmers better crop management and helped them treble income. Today he is Pradhan of the village a Jat Sardar pradhan in Bihar a miracle indeed. The Bhumihar had to sell of all his land to marry of his daughters and support his extravagant lifestyle(dowries in this community being very high), but is unrepentant. We have to stop being Bhumihar and become like Sardar.

When we feel for one another we are less likely to screw them. When we are less likely to screw our fellow mates we want the government to punish wrongdoers who do so and if not the government then at least there is a social estrangment from them.

Any code even something as harsh as Pakhtunkhawli is aceptable as long as it is applied uniformly or approximately uniformly. Any code will fail if it does not apply uniformly.

Constitution is what we choose to make out of it. When the litmus test is how wrong I can do as a measure of power then refer reply to Shri Siddiqui not even the Mahdi, 12th Imam, Second coming of Jesus or Kalki Bhagwan will not help us.

Possibly that is why Mo said this and no ``Mo``re.

Regards
Sanatani

And for god`s sake you guys are lucky you have a cult following of a prophet even if self styled not the nauseating stink of cult of pathetic Humans like Gandhi, Nehru and Neo Gandhi`s or Lohia, JP and Yadavs or of Mao, Lenin and Stalin as it happens in our dear motherland. Maybe this is where the rightist erred they should have started a cult of Veerji, Doctorji and Guruji (That being Savarkar, Hedgewar and Golwalkar).

#9 by Mantolives on May 20, 2006 11:24pm PT


We need to support the constitution and the supremacy of the constitution.


sure..why don`t you get the all the pakis who think like you and go to El-Presidente`s palace..I`m thinking your group should fit in a cab..

The rest of Pakiland wants the Islamization of paki laws...like what the paki minister has promised..get over it..

``Is Pakistan really progressing?’`` The answer is yes. Pakistan has seen the worst type of bankruptcy and then raised its foreign reserves to 12 billion dollars. What do you call this? Isn’t this less than a miracle?``

Re:
After more than three years of living abroad, I recently got a chance to visit Pakistan. I do not know where these billion dollars are being stored, I could not see any difference in the life of ordinary Pakistanis and they do not seem to benefit from what the author has referred to as “economic boom”. People of Pakistan are poor as always. Yes, I definitely observed that military personnels now travel in bigger cars and their behaviour towards ``less worthy civilians” has deteriorated further. Ordinary people living in Rawalpindi/Islamabad are now made to suffer a lot more often because of persistent road blockades when Mushraff or some other VIP is travelling. Now one sees a military man sitting in a post where, by any reason, a civilian should be. If “economic boom” exists it may have occurred with the bank accounts of military personnel. Could the author tell me where should I see to find the referred “miracle”? Has the author noticed that a day before his article has appeared many hundreds of the citizens of Pakistan living in Faisalabad have been hospitalized, many of those have died, because of drinking water mixed with sewerage. A military captain rapes a lady doctor who is then forced to leave the country and nothing is done against the rapist. Do you still think that a “miracle” is somehow is still happening in my ill-fortunate homeland Pakistan.

Dear Arjunm,

Look... I don`t wish to impose my vision by force... I believe that the state ought to be secular or what I mean by it atleast: inclusive and pluralistic... I am willing to work towards it through a process...

If the rest of Paki-land wants the Islamization ... then they can do it following a constitutional process which requires them to allow religious and political freedoms to others ... beyond that they may Islamize all that they want my friend- it is their right to choose a system of government of their choice.

Hope you understand where I am coming from...

Dear Writer

Good article. I agree with most of your points.

But I do not agree with this, you wrote:-{{{We need to improve our global image, promote liberalism not by putting aside religion, but by promoting Islam and its liberal image. }}}

Yes, we need to improve our global image to promote liberalism.......

But, we do not need to promote Islam or it`s image. Islam or any religion is our personal and private matter. Islam has got nothing to do with governance or it has got nothing to do with our international affairs.

This is the biggest mistake that Pakistanies are trapped in to, when they talk about improving their image in reference to Islam or any religion.

Pakistan will only develop it`s better image, when Pakistanies will leave Islam aside with out mixing it with their development.

Yes, the only key to the building of a better Pakistan is ,``Stop corruption at each and every level.`` Pakistan is entrapped in this avalanche of corruption which is eating up the whole country and it`s poor population. Not only that Pakistan`s image is disrupted by this avalanche world wide and other international companies are reluctant to invest in Pakistan.

Sadly, Mullahs played a major role in destroying Pakistan`s image at international level. Al-Qaida`s terrorism is another story........