Filming the Prophet

Re: # 32

Do you really beleive what David Icke says. Remeber, he is the person who says that this world is ruled by lizards. To beleive him is even harder to beleive in releigion.

Cheers,

Khalid

NFP
Read your interview on WeCite.net. Good to see that you can be vunerable too. :) How does one get in touch with you?

Re: # 13
Why not make one on Hazrat Ayesha r.a. or are you too old to play her role? :)

Main point is that those humans who played important roles in the establishment of major organized religions were not illiterate and other than the unseen arch angel gabrial, kings and king makers were also among the main architects.

Some historians say that Hazrat Omar (ra) knew most of the quranic ideas, even before they were revealed to holy prophet (pbuh).

Hazrat Ali (ra) was also a great scholar who could read and write and he was a great philosopher and statesman as well.

Holy prophet (pbuh) could read and proof of it is that when ``sul e hudaibia`` agreement was written and infidels of Mecca objected over the wordings of ``Mohammad rasoolullah`` ( Mohammad as a prophet of Allah) in it, then holy prophet (pbuh) asked hazrat Ali (ra) to erase it, and when Hazrat Ali (ra) showed hasitation then holy prophet (pbuh) himself took the pen and erased it.

Before Islam, scholars and philosophers of Mecca believed that supreme deity Al-lah had three daugters namely Lat, Munat and Uzzah.

Holy prophet ( pbuh) came up with a philosophy and defined Allah as a supreme power without any father or child.

Prior to her conversion to Islam,Hazrat Khadija (ra) and her Roman catholic cousin, Hazrat Warqa bin Nofil (ra) who probably never became a believer, believed that Allah or God had Jesus (as) as his only son.

Coming to our Indian roots, some historians believe that Lord Krishna was a strong and wise human being and he was a great womanizer also.

Uptill yesterday I used to carve his statue one day with my own hands and worshippped him as a deity the very next day.

All organised religions are inter connected to each other, and they have their roots in the basic human desire of life and eternity and to have some father like great protector, generally known as god.

Man is indeed a great dreamer, fabricator, carver and worshipper.

Re: # 32

interesting stuff. there are two major problems with this theory:

1) the crusades. I guess the pope started having second thoughts about the Arabs capturing and holding Jerusalem for him?
2) I don`t think Islamic teachings advocate the preference of Christians (or Catholics specifically) over Jews. you could argue mullas teach equal opportunity hate but the real teachings do say that both Jews and Christians are people of the book. but hey, I`m no scholar.

Re: # 31

``
......... the only problem might be with fitting in the 14 plus heroines in a three hour film - even if he does three songs with each that is 42 song and dance numbers which will take up more than half the movie .......... oh well, we will let the professionals figure that one out .......``

hahaha.. man you`re really something...

# 32

The Internet is full of all kinds of wackos propounding all kinds of theories. It`s not very alert to put sh%t up for all to read.

If you have some independent reasons to trust that `research` or the theory, please do share...

It is clear that all organised religions were created by smart human beings, kings and kingdoms and they did it in order to strengthen their kingdoms and to control human masses.

This piece of research tells us that Islam was created by Roman Catholics and Vatican and I believe that prophet Mohammad (pbuh) was NOT an illiterate person and he could read and he spent lot of time in the company of Roman catholic scholars.

Hazrat Warqa bin Nofil who was cousin of Hazrat Khadija (ra) was a great Roman catholic scholar who could READ and WRITE hebrew and Arabic in those days and Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) spent lot of time in his company.

Let us see What this Guy Alberto says about the theory that Islam was created by Smart Roman Catholic minds of Vatican, he says:

``The Vatican wanted to create a messiah for the Arabs, someone they could raise up as a great leader, a man with charisma whom they could train, and eventually unite all the non-Catholic Arabs behind him, creating a mighty army that would ultimately capture Jerusalem for the pope. In the Vatican briefing, Cardinal Bea told us this story:

`A wealthy Arabian lady who was a faithful follower of the pope played a tremendous part in this drama. She was a widow named Khadijah. She gave her wealth to the church and retired to a convent, but was given an assignment. She was to find a brilliant young man who could be used by the Vatican to create a new religion and become the messiah for the children of Ishmael. Khadijah had a cousin named Waraquah,, who was also a very faithful Roman Catholic and the Vatican placed him in a critical role as Muhammad`s advisor. He had tremendous influence on Muhammad.

`Teachers were sent to young Muhammad and he had intensive training. Muhammad studied the works of St. Augustine which prepared him for his ``great calling.`` The Vatican had Catholic Arabs across North Africa spread the story of a great one who was about to rise up among the people and be the chosen one of their God.

`While Muhammad was being prepared, he was told that his enemies were the Jews and that the only true Christians were Roman Catholic. He was taught that others calling themselves Christians were actually wicked impostors and should be destroyed. Many Muslims believe this.

`Muhammad began receiving ``divine revelations`` and his wife`s Catholic cousin Waraquah helped interpret them. From this came the Koran. In the fifth year of Muhammad`s mission, persecution came against his followers because they refused to worship the idols in the Kaaba. ..........................

Here is the link for further study,

http://www.davidicke.com/content/view/745/42/

.......... i am truly amazed at our obsession with hollywood and western actors - it would be a lot more fun to see sharukh khan (muhammad) chasing aishwarya (ayesha) across the desert singing and dancing as the camels watch in wonderment !

......... the only problem might be with fitting in the 14 plus heroines in a three hour film - even if he does three songs with each that is 42 song and dance numbers which will take up more than half the movie .......... oh well, we will let the professionals figure that one out .......

It is a wonderful film.
There has recently been a film about Imam Ghazali too and, I think, one about Mawlana e Rumi in the pipeline.

His film on the great Libyan freedom fighter Umar al Mukhtar with Anthony Quinn is excellent too.

Re: # 28
Kamath
Thanks. About Rodinson`s book I liked it because I was looking for historical data. Of course he theorises in it and one could argue that being an atheist he would not be giving an objective opinion.

I did not like Karen Armstrong`s book because being a nun and all that I found her treatment of the material very wishy washy.

Of course these are my prejudices as I have little opinon on divine revelations.

Neverthless Muhammed was an amazing , astute and charismatic person.

Re: # 8
Warrier:
Here are some info about the documentary produced by PBS financed by US tax payers about the life of Muhammad.

See: http://www.pbs.org/muhammad/film_fullcredits.shtml
Executive Producer: Michael Schwarz
Executive Editors: Alexander Kronemer, Michael Wolfe
Editors/Story Editors: Glen Ebesu, Gail Huddleson
Producer: Liz Gray
Director: Omar Al-Qattan
It has some well known advisors!

Advisors: Khalid Blankinship, Seyyed Hossein Nasr, Sulayman S. Nyang, Muzammil Siddiqi, John L. Esposito, John Voll, Leila Ahmed, Ingrid Mattson, Amina Wadud, Vincent Cornell, Ali Mazuri, Zahid Bukhari, Azizah Al-Hibri, Mohamed Zakariya, Faizul Khan, Feisal Abdul Rauf, Karen Armstrong, Hamza Yusuf Hanson, Rev. Donald Marbury, Susan Douglas. etc..

As far as I am concerned. It is a flop and pretty tasteless.

Kamath

Re # 19

``.....but well for some of us Muslims our prophet was never less than God.... ``

dude, get your basics right.
no one and i reapeat no on or no thing can be compared to god. the prophet pbuh as highly esteemed as he is is still never ever anywhere close to the creator of the universe. never

Re: # 19
``.....but well for some of us Muslims our prophet was never less than God.... ``

dude, get your basics right.
no one and i reapeat no on or no thing can be compared to god. the prophet pbuh as highly esteemed as he is is still never ever anywhere close to the creator of the universe. never

Raw_Dust,

Neither...let us assume indeed. Big whoop. She hersself became a seriously influential (not to mention powerful) figure who in the end had nothing but praise for her lover and Prophet.

So, unh...if anybody has anything to revisit, it`s all those who question the relationship...hypothetically or not.

Suffice it to say, marriage at such a young age was never mandated, nor perscribed...merely practiced.

_digit:
if just for one second, we assume that Ayesha`s age was indeed 9 at the time of marriage. Remember, i am talking only hypothetically. What would become of you? Would you cease to exist? vanish in thin air? turn into organic slush? a nonmuslim? an eggplant?

Maybe, hypotheticals are something you have no stomach for like presidential candidates.

kamath,

Spin? Heh...there`s actually a logical argument (using Hadith) no less that calculates Hazrat Ayesha`s age to be closer in the teens. Whatever.

Needless to say, the spin is fastest in the opposing camp, which through filtering Islamic sources (the only source of Islamic history, I might add) twist the history to suit their agenda against Islam. So, Muhammad (pbuh) becomes the instegator to the war with the pagans for monetary gain (the standard line in oreintalist lore). This, whereas Islamic tradition is quite clear that a few days after his arrival to Medina the Meccans threatened the leader of Medina with a rather brutal death (along with his clansmen) if Muhammad and his followers were not killed on the spot.

Simply exposes many who claim to be humble critiques of Islam as secretly desiring their extermination (as the pagans in Mecca did). Yet when Muslims try to set the record straight...it`s allll spin...heh...

Khadija film will unwittingly end up showing ``pagan`` arabia`s women as strong role models. Not to mention, Khadija film will expose mohammad`s social climbing ways and warqah bin nofal as the true inventor of islam.

Mohammad model can be a great framework to explore multiple narratives.. a film could be done in first person mohammad narrating and then shifting POV to his al-Lah alterego and then al-Quran and then back.. the plot could be circular... starting from mohammad being chosen to install the black stone and back to mohammad `purifying` the place around that very same black stone ... ayesha`s tryst with safwan could be thrown in for a side plot..

one of the movies my mum made me watch as a child was the message so she could give us a visual picture of how it was than. and i still love watching it.

i have studied religion in enough detail to know that mustapha didn`t do anything that may be considered sinful when making the film, in fact i appreciate the effort that he took in making it and the way he went out of his way to consult scholars during the making of it to make sure he wasn`t going to hurt any muslim sentiments.

for people who cant understand that, i feel sorry for them. their version of religion does not allow for them to be able to live peacefully.

we saw this movie almost ten years ago as video rental -- there was no hush hush secrecy or condemnation from the Muslims -- every Muslim household had seen the movie without trepidations -- Anthony Quinn was as usual superb as Hamza -- he was superb as Mokhtar as well in the other movie -- actually I wished Quinn should have played the prophet -- then the Americans would have gone in droves...

anyway it was a great movied.....thanks Nadeem for the background tempest in the teapot information....we Muslims are so twisted and weird....even in trying to make a religious movie.....

now who has ever heard a voice playing a human being prophet -- that priviliege was supposed to be tradionally granted to only God...

.....but well for some of us Muslims our prophet was never less than God....

Even though most of us know Nadeem is an atheist, Marxist if you please, but I have noticed that in most of his pieces dealing with religious issues he does tend to side with the Berelvi school of Islam. Anyways, yet again another super article, must watch Message again.

Dillemma and apathy and woe to the ignorant who didn`t receive the underlying concept of the film..

very informative and concise..i might start envying your expression in writing.

the disadvantage is majority of us move with the dogma.

Ask the barelvis and they would hold this film very high..might perhaps Anthony Quinn would manage his picture in every Barelvi Masjid.
Some of them..in reverence..might proclaim him to be a Muslim..Some more devoted would go further to call him a Sufi..and the saga goes to holding him just a degree below the Prophet and Allah..

The staunch and rigid believers who outrightly reject it..
same phase but different outcomes..

Re: # 8
Swarrier: I do not remember the exact name of the movie at this time. But if you go to PBS web site and search a bit under subjects etc. You should be able to locate it. Let me try to find out for you when I get a little time.

Anyway, I am of the opinion that one should never never form an opinion about anything by reading one book or article or a movie etc.

BTW, the latest author is Reza Aslan-of Iranian heritage- He puts a lot of spin on Prophet Mohammad life story and history of Islam. He even raised the age of marriage to 18 to keep up with norms of 20th century to deflect criticism. ( Even though according to respected Hadith collectors like Bukhari her age was something like six. These things were not uncommon in those days ). So there are all sorts of Spin doctors who like to distort, stretch and falsify historical facts to defend a faith which they revere at any cost- true or false.

Re: # 13

...and who would play the lead in your movie? i mean the character of Khadija?

Very informative article, Nadeem. Thanks!

Though I`ve wept each time I see the movie, it still remains a deeply patriarchal movie for its time. The only powerful women in it are evil conspirators, or they are dancers.

Some day, I`d love to make a movie about Khadija, The prophet could be played by supporting actor Brad Pitt , with black curly hair and black eyes.


Aisha Sarwari

deep analysis nfp ... zia wuz also against kadaffi cuz he had offered ppp to rescue bhutto from zia`s jails.

Interesting article indeed. Liked the way you tried to give political reasons behind the banning of this enigmatic film in Pakistan.

Any effort to document and sugarcoat PBUH`s life into a Disney/Hollywood/Bollywood inanity must be resisted. Even the so-called educated Muslims have not bothered to study to primary sources about the prophet of Islam. kaka can bet paracha, versey, hamidm etc have no clue who Ibn Ishaq was and where to find his writings.

You do not have to learn Arabic to read the Quran, the Saheehain, the Sirah, an early exegsis like al-Tabari`s, the Christian Bible and maybe a primer on Middle East geography. This may take 5 years but if idiots are determined to learn about Islam from Shibli Naumani, Maududi, Rushdie, Anthony Quinn etc and then pontificate about it, then idiots you shall remain.

Its a fbulous articl Mr` Pracha and thanx for the detail.....and The Message on Geo became very popular! lol.......everyone was talking bout it!

Re: # 5
Kamath
Can you recall the name of the PBS documentary? I haven`t seen it and I`d like to see what Karen Armstrong has got up to? My wife was reviewing a book on Mohammed that she had written and I found it a really bad read. I found Maxime Rodinson`s biography of Mohammed rather interesting.

I loved this movie as a child. It helped me understand Arabian culture at the time of Prophet Mohammad(PBUH)...

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Um,..The Last Prophet`` never hit U.S. theaters, and has yet to be released on DVD. ..` I wonder why!

Prophet Muhammad`s life story must be read by every one. For, it is very important for all people to understand his views about human life, inner struggle, moral life , war, etc. It has given millions of his followers a code to live by. I think he is a very important historical figure-not the only one. From the point of understanding and appreciating human history, I would like to see a movie about his life. I have read history of Islam and many of its facets and contributions over many years and I would say it is fascinating.

Last year there was movie produced and shown on PBS with commentators Karen Armstrong and the new convert Wolfe(!). Their comments were tasteless , phony and especially that of Wolfe was really bogusy. Karen Armstrong narrated and parts of her narration sounded as though she personally knew him. It was a bit of phony. BTW-She speaks with a similar voice about Buddhism too. -pretty wooden hollow tone. The movie was tasteless and appeared like apropaganda.

I wish producers and directors have the courage to produce a good movie with taste, and historical accuracy. Let the viewers make up their own mind and let the humanity decide about these things.
Kamath

When man (out of insecurity and ignorance) invented religion and god(s) he made a big mistake. The world would be a much better place without all this nonsense and superstition.
I`ll give anything to the first religious parents who do not push any religion on to their children, and simply say to them that they can work out for themselves what to believe in (if anything).

NP,
As usual, very well written article.

Nadeem, as a sidenote..whenever i read your columns or look at your pic on Chowk..I wonder if you are really a heavy pot smoker. Just say no, Man!!!

``Hamza, the character portrayed by Anthony Quinn in ``The Message,`` appear only from behind.``

Cant blame them...

Nice article Nadeem. An excellent read