Reservaion: Interest of Urban-Upper halves

I am posting this here for the miscellaneous pundits and intellectuals on Chowk that are always ready with their expert opinions and prescriptions on this subject:

http://yfemysore.blogspot.com/2006/05/letter-by-iitian.html


The following was posted by an IITan who happens to be a OBC:


They made me feel low.I belong to OBC class. I am from a place where discrimination based on castewas very common.I grew hearing I am inferior because I am from back ward class.I had regretted in my childhood why was I born inbackward class.When my friends used to tease me on my caste my ma(mother) used to tell me only way to make you friends mouth shut is to study well and top in the class.I took this idea seriously and channelized my frustration towards my studies. There was a big change in meI started working very hard and transformed me from apoor performer of the class to the district 2nd topper of X exam 1996supaul.After that performance also some of my racist friends disparaged my success by saying, I must have some connection withthe govt of Bihar.Since the then cm of Bihar belongs to my caste.I was very disappointed not by the disparagement by myfriends but by thinking why I belonged to my class.Then I started preparing very hard to prove that my performance of X was genuine.I worked real hard and got through IIT JEE 2000.I got a place in B-Tech chemical engg at IIT KGP. I was apprehensive about-facing the same experiencehere also.But I was surprised when no body asked me my caste there.I was surprised from the environment there. No bodyreally cared which cast I belonged to. No body at iit ever care from which religion or which cast one belongs to.Feeling of equality was for the first time felt by me there.I feel no place on the earth will be as secular and asracism free as iitSlowly my feeling of inferiority because of my class started fading away. I started believing in equality of human. I started loving people not based on their cast butbased on their ideas. I forgot all the discrimination. I feel proudof living in such a great environment.This place not only made me grow technically but also socially.I am real secular I don`t only say it but also feelit.But when one start feeling good about something inlife god takes it away. Before this announcement of reservations I hadstarted believing that India is growing not only economically but alsosocially.I was feeling freedom from boundaries of caste andcreed.But suddenly our leaders asked me to feel that I am a backward.They made me remember my childhood days. Now it has become difficult for me to feel same as Ifelt before this announcement.I am really worried for my alma mater.I feel our leaders are going to spoil the haven on earth for their own benefit.I would like to suggest one thing if all the leaderswill be sent to iits then only they can know the real meaning ofsecularism what they keep on trumpeting around.I will not mind if some of the seats of iit will be given to our leaders to make them understand the real meaning ofsecularism.But now I am sure once they make reservations mandatory for admissions in institutes it will replace the equality with the hatred and discrimination.I urge our leaders don`t do this to us.Our generation has changed. Please don`t separate uson the basis of our birth. Over which no one has any control.We have started believing in equality, hard work and dedication for success.Please don`t break our faith.It will really spoil the unity of our nation. Pleaselet the new generation of India live in a world where ideas matternot the birth class. if the world is a play being staged, then the script sucks...

Re: # 18,

I wouldn`t go as far as demanding for a punishment. But, certainly, the fundamentalism, and orthodoxy in the Muslim community needs to be pointed out. Pan-Islamic demands need to be trashed by the politicians. The dhimmitude and double standards that exist in the shakers and movers of the media and politics need to ridiculed. It is so freakin ridiculous when Sonia Gandhi and Sultan Salahuddin Owaisi sit next to each other on a hunger strike, all to promote secularism. Owaisi promoting secularism? Gimme a break !

And, Yasser, is there nothing wrong with poor performers? Lemme give an example,
I (a Hindu) remember the parents of many Muslim kids arguing with my high school (A Catholic School) authorities when they started offering Moral Instruction classes that had some biblical anecdotes. Some of them quit and took to the neighboring Sultan-Ul-Uloom, which was one suck-ass instituition for learning. Some of them are probably doing OK now, but a good number that I know are still scratching their balls not knowing what to do. Now, do you call those losers oppressed? Bet you and the likes of you, would !

In the US, when quotas were used to admit Blacks to universities (the quota was 10% compared to the nationwidw Black population at that time of 12%), the universities did not admit somebody because he/she was Black but because they met at least the relaxed qualifications needed to gain admission under the quota scheme. Nor did the university admissions then exceed 10% for Blacks meaning, if you are going to be a quota candidate you are going to be limited to the quota seats and not compete in the open category. The US Supreme Court has ruled that if a quota seat was unfulfilled, it must be given to other qualified students (Bakke v. State of California).

In India, the quota candidates can compete for both quota and open category seats. If a quota seat cannot be filled by qualified candidates, then it will be filled anyway by admitting unqualified OBC/SC/ST candidates. Tell me this is not a dilution of merit.

I grew up in a small town in southernmost Tamil Nadu, son of a man who was the first ever in his family to go to college. I lived in that small town through my high school years and studied under the antiquated syllabus of the state board and University of Madras. We had no access to any coaching schools so we just took our chances with the IIT entrance exam. The majority of IIT seats went to kids from Bombay, Delhi and Calcutta with better syllabii in maths and science. I did not crib about the unfair advantage they had over me because of the North-South or rural-urban divide. We just got over our failure to get admission to the IITs and got on with our lives.

So, learn to live with it. Everybody is not born into equal economic circumstances. Maybe if we had been rich, I could have asked my dad to hire me a private tutor for the IIT entrance test but even the rich folks in that town didn`t do that because there was a knowledge gap about what was out there.

The real problem is that the frikking MBC/OBC/SC/ST candidates are stupid. Come on, look at history. If you have been hunting heads well into the 19th century or leading a hunter-gatherer lifestyle, you have no analytical skills. Look at the 2000+ dialects in India. Why didn`t these idiots evolve a system of writing for their dialects? Because they were/are clueless morons. Does the fact that the Bengali language has a literature base going back over centuries confer an advantage on the Bengalis compared to a Santhal from the forests? You bet it does. Is that the Bengali`s fault? No. It is just how the cookie crumbles.

Take a look at Tamil Nadu. Despite a history of 2000+ years of literary development, the OBCs of the state had no clue what their language contained and were happily using the palm-leaf manuscripts for fuel! Do such morons deserve to be admitted to any educational program? No, instead THEY should be used as fuel in ovens!

But 60 years of constant propaganda by pond scum masquerading as politicians backed by so-called historians at JNU and similar places have created a mind-set that over 75% of Indian population was victimized by the other 25%. But do they apply the same logic and say that the 14% Indian Muslim population victimized the other 86% and so should be forced to pay for past crimes? No. Instead, the Christian Chief Minister of Andhra Pradesh (notice how cleverly he conceals his religious identity by having the name Rajasekhara Reddy) gives the Muslims of Andhra a 5% reservation. The Andhra Muslims under the Nizams imposed the alien language Urdu on the local population and terrorized the Hindu population. Why are you, Yasser Arafath, not pointing this out in your article? Why don`t you come out and say that Andhra Muslims should be LIMITED to 0.5% of professional education and government jobs in light of their past history of victimizing non-Muslims? Because that would be bitter medicine, that is why. But here you get on the Upper-Caste-bashing bandwagon.

Why don`t ALL Hindus demand just punishment for the crimes of Indian Muslims? Then we will see the true colors of Yasser Arafath, Indian Muslims and the frikking Pakis.

Thank Mr Arafath

Today you have categorised me as a member of the “meritorious sections”. I mean I too come from the upper middle class as you mention with affluent parents who can afford huge sums of money for coaching institutions. So what if I had to slog my way through school to attain a high grade. So what if I spent sleepless nights throughout University trying to get a grade that could get me through for a better future. So what if I am working in a job that I got based on my merit, I mean of course the affluent parents were there to help me, but whether I took their help or not is of no matter to you. So what if I worked throughout my studies in order to sustain myself independently, under your blanket categorisation of people who oppose the loose and irrational implementation of reservation even I come under this class of lazy buggers who use the influence and money gained by their earlier generations in order to reach higher limits in life. So what if I am one of those who does not approve of the latest step in reservation by Mr Arjun Singh not because I am against the concept of reservation but against its grotesque mis-implementation in India. I too have to be categorised under the category interpreted by you as “urban middle class” having a vested interest in keeping certain sections of the society under-privileged.

Can I just ask you, what happened to social equality without discrimination on the basis of caste, colour, creed, sex, religion language etc.?

#14 by indikad75

Good one Salil! How was the trip?

Hello Yasser, had enough time to think through with a cool head? Care to respond to the interactors? Since, you posted a very `well-thought` and a `dispassionate` article.

Yasser, you have presented lots of arguments here. Some of them are untenable I feel. As Burpi bhai said most of those guys who were protesting (not polluting) on the streets are doing so coz of an inherent need to survive, which is common to all of us here. It is a competitive world out there and each one has to fight it out to survive and grow. With opportunities shrinking and competition increasing, reservations become another front on which the battle has to be fought. So give the guys a chance to protest. It is their right. BTW none of the protests were violent. And thats a major difference from the anti-Mandal protests. In fact the peaceful protests this time were met with violence.

Secondly I think you should ensure that the length of your article is long enough to cover your basic arguments and short enough to keep the reader interested.

Finally I think you can ignore comments like the ones made by #13 ``Indian 007``. Carrying eponymous names and finding nothing more to comment about but the author`s name is a rather dim-witted response. Buddy you dont like what the author writes, say it. And also say why you dont like it. No use of passing inane remarks here.

~ Salil ~

`Yasser Arafat` - the name said it all. Bet this guy has a little brother called `Saddam Hussein`. And his kids will be called `Osama`, `Ahmadinejad` and `Zarqawi`. Budding suicide bombers all.

Smart strategy - divide the hindus. And then take them out, one by one. Inshallah - one day the green flag will fly over the Red Fort and the Shariah will be the law of the land.

Re: # 10

Beautifully put.

Re: # 10
Correction: At the end of it, they have lived with 22.5% reservations for all their lives, they will continue to live with 49.5% reservations.

The author conveniently glosses over the fact that it is not reservations that the good, if admittedly insecure, souls from IIT, IIM, AIIMS, etc. are protesting but the quantum of reservations. Is it fair that half (well, 49.5% anyway) of available seats for higher education be reserved for students belonging to certain castes?

Forget all that ``your grandfather did this to my grandfather`` stuff for a moment. What it boils down to is two students- let`s call them gujju and behl- appear for teh same examination, and whereas high-caste gujju scores 290 out of 300 in the qualifying exam, behl, belonging to one of the castes that Mr. Mandal categorised as OBC (other backward classes, mind you) scores about 270. Now to the rational mind, it seems perfectly natural that a person with a disadvantaged background would have less access to facilities and therefore the 20-mark difference is a small consideration in the larger interests of social justice.

There are a few problems with thsi argument however:
1. The 20-point difference is not a small consideration simply because the Indian education system is NOT rational. It is, to put it midly, a mad rush for marks, marks, marks, based on relentless rote learning.
2. The student identified as ``disadvantaged`` may NOT actually be any different from the uppercaste student. gujju`s brahmin grandfather may have been an impoverished temple priest, for example, forcing his father to migrate to the city and work his butt off to put his kid (gujju) in a position where he can aspire to reach the hallowed portals of higher learning and book his ticket to fame and fortune. behl`s grandfather may have been a poor illiterate artisan who`s son worked hard to break not just economic barriers but caste ones, migrate to the city and work his butt off to put his kid (behl) in a position where he can aspire to reach the hallowed portals of higher learning and book his ticket to fame and fortune.
3. The whole reservations rigamarole is on nobody`s agenda except politicians. First VP Singh and now Arjun Singh. Now I`m a simple sort of guy and if you try and convince me that politicians have the nation`s and society`s interests uppermost in their hearts, it makes me suspicious. more likely, they are only interested in the votes it brings. Any other reason why even the upper-caste-friendly parties like the BJP are maintaining an awkward silence over this whole issue?

Otherwise, friend Yasser, these protesting pollutants in the street are no different from you and me, trying to make their names in an increasingly unfriendly world. Why blast them so? At the end of it, they have lived with 225 reservations for all their lives, they will continue to live with 49.5% reservations. Those among them smart enough and willing to slog their butts off will make it to where they want to be. Others not so blessed, will find other avenues to succeed in life. A few lucky ones will be carted overseas by their anxious parents and begin afresh in societies where they do not have to grapple with such a scarcity mentality in something that should be freely available- viz education.

Allow those poor sods to pollute your precious streets a little. Who`s father`s what goes?

Re: # 8,

Yep, so very true.

The whole argument for reservations to sections of the Indian society falls flat when the 5% reservations for Muslims in AP is brought up. Were Muslims oppressed for hundreds of years, like the author of this POS thinks? Hell NO! Then, what are reservations for? To sustain the cracks in the society, and milk them dry at the cost of development. It has become a fad for these jobless researchers, writers, and academicians to call anyone who opposes reservations in principle as ``upper-caste``, or ``elites``. Freakin loose mouths! How are these 17 or 18yr. old successful students competing against thousands of other qualified candidates, upper-casteist, Yasser?

Re: # 4

> This article is typical of a certain ``left-wing`` mindset which treasures dividing indian
> society based on caste, religion, region etc.

relax dude .... the writer belongs to a `certain` peaceful community. He is not a leftist ... at
the right moment he is going to hang the leftists too. But right now he needs them.
And he knows what he is doing.

I heard recently that the ``secular`` government in AP recently announced 5% reservation
for his cult. I thought the nawabs were ruling hyderabad state for a long time - & now this
``oppressed`` peaceful community gets reservations too ....

# muqadam
``But history tells us that reservations make people lazy and useless. ``

how do you reach this conclusion? which history are you talking of..the mughal history?

Re: # 4 & #5

You can wake up a sleeping man but not one who is pretending to be asleep, especially when all the goodies are flowing into his mouth while he is at this game.

We used to have this shloka in our Sanskrit class at school:

Udyameneiv sidhyanti karyani na manorathai
Na hi suptasya sinhasya pravishanti mukhey mrigah

``Success is achieved through hard work, not merely by wishing
A sleeping lion doesn`t get deer walking into his mouth``

How untrue!

``Liberty will not descend to a people; a people must raise themselves to liberty. It is a blessing that must be earned before it can be enjoyed.``

-- Benjamin Franklin (U.S. statesman and philosopher, 1706-1790)

Lot of wisdom in what the old man said.

Closer home, the OBCs and BCs must learn to stand up to be counted for what they are by competing on a level playing field rather than living on these privileges doled out by the state. This talk of caste prejudice is a very handy tool for the politician-scoundrels like VP Singh and Arjun Singh who are just playing vote bank politics and for whom their own political survival comes first. They could not be bothered about the actual well being of the down trodden.

The writer of the present article is obvously convinced that the proposed reservations must be implemented and that the so called privileged class is just opposing resevation out of prejudice.

But history tells us that reservations make people lazy and useless. In the long term they (reservations) will prove detrimental to the very society which we are trying to make egalitarian. It is not reservations which will improve the lot of the downtrodden but making opportunities available to them by invigorating economic growth so that they can get a part of the growing pie.

The present govt along with the Marxist bast@rds are only playing politics and dividing the nation in the bargain.

I wish the writer see the issue in this light, too..