What Pakistan’s Bomb Could Not Buy

#33 by HisExcellency on May 29, 2006 7:52am PT


1- If a poor country like Pakistan can overcome enormous challenges to create a formidable nuclear program, then it can also develop a first-rate economy.


You had the same dreams about a billion $ of IT exports..the whole ``If those damn hindus can do it surely we genetically superior pakis can do it better`` thing..

Now you`re reduced to making up an alternate reality in which Pakiland exports 400million of IT..while in the real world, the number, according to all sources - paki and non-paki - is a piddly 50 million..

I heard the whole paki plan of closing the PhD gap with India isn`t going so well either....

Ref Netizen #50

[the real problem for pakistan is something else, nukes or no nukes....

its the ``me too`` mentality.

....india chopped one of its part, pak is trying to do so]

Your analogy is SO wrong.

Check the average Paki and the average Indian (87% possibility that he is not a Muslim).

You will learn who is chopping off parts of his body.

Ref HisExcellency #33

[1- If a poor country like Pakistan can overcome enormous challenges to create a formidable nuclear program, then it can also develop a first-rate economy.]

I have been told that the US dollar is pretty much counterfeit-proof. Nobody would sell you the intaglio printing machines used by the US Bureau of Engraving and Printing (they are guarded tighter than nuclear secrets), you don`t have skilled engravers who can imitate the US dollar bill, and the paper on which the US dollar is printed is made by a single paper mill in Massachusetts. On top of that, they use special ink, watermarks, etc.

So, there goes your dream of creating a first-rate economy by the same techniques used to create your formidable nuclear programs.

There is a good chance that one day soon we will look back at Pakistani nuclear explosions as among the best things to have ever happened to our subcontinent.

Henceforth, the Pakistani nation could grow healthy and beautiful. She may cast aside the oppressive weight of an ever-present existential fear that has marred her past.

For Pakistanis, and even for Indians, that would be a miraculous blessing.

There is also a chance that this may not happen. But any positive opportunity deserves to be highlighted. And its attendant hope articulated and shared.

May be, indubitably great minds like Dr. Hoodbhoy will help the rest of us move in that direction....

Dr Pervaiz Hoodbhoy, another objective article, pertinent, honest and well argued.

Writer correctly argues against the nuclear explosions and time has proved his thesis to be correct. Has the arms race stoped? On the contrary it has only increased. Have the two neighbours ceased to confront each other as in deterrence? Kargil episode clearly debunks that argument. Fact is, nuclear bomb vfor Pakistan in particularf has only boughtg about more pain and misery, maybe it gives men in khakis that much needed artificial machismo, common man of Pakistan has yet to recover from its tremmors in the form of economic suffocation and rise of religious fanatism.

``If anything, it made clear that Pakistan can now never hope for a
military victory in Kashmir``

Well, that`s a silver lining right there!

Anybody?

Pakistan has 43% of the GNP tied to foreign debt. Why?

Why is it that Pakistan`s foreign reserve still stuck at $10B?

Who is stealing Pakistan`s wealth?

Why are those free press wallas, not articulating this is their articles?

Resspectfully submitted,

``In fact it had transferred this technology to Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, Libya, and other countries. ``

i thought it was pakistan which was involved in the ``transfer`` of tech to libya. alas, gaddhafi ratted on a.q.khan

``Arguably it was the BJP that, by ordering Pokhran-II, fathered Kargil. ``

what do you say about this................

Nawaz okayed Kargil, says book

PTI | July 28, 2004 | 14:09 IST

Former Pakistan Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif granted ``formal approval`` to the Kargil plan to capture Indian peaks along the Line of Control but was informed about it only after he met his Indian counterpart Atal Bihari Vajpayee in February, 1999, according to a book?by an official who worked for?both Benazir Bhutto and Pervez Musharraf.
Pakistan`s Drift into Extremism: Allah, the Army, and America`s War on Terror, is authored by Hassan Abbas, a Research Fellow at the Harvard Law School and a PhD. candidate at the Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy, Tufts University. He has served in the administrations of Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto (1994-95) and General Musharraf (1999-2000).

According to the South Asia Tribune, the book says says Sharif was briefed about the Kargil plan on March 27 or 28, 1999, though he was ``not aware`` of the operations when he met Vajpayee on February 20.

I was in dark about Kargil aggression Sharief???

Abbas gives a graphic description of ``how the Kargil disaster was planned and managed by the Army led by Gen Musharraf who led a `Gang of Four`, and quotes Pakistan High Commissioner to UK Maleeha Lodhi as saying `even Corps Commanders and other chiefs were excluded from the decision-making process```, the portal said.

``So much so that even the very able Director General Military Operations, Lt Gen Tauqir Zia, was initiated into the secret after the Gang of Four had already taken the irrevocable decision of going ahead with the operation,`` the book said.

Complete coverage: The Kargil conflict

The 1999 Kargil plan, according to the book, was the third in the series, with the earlier two having been rejected by then Pakistani rulers, including President Gen Zia-ul Haq, on the grounds that it could lead to a full-scale war with India.

The ``third and final operational (Kargil) plan`` was put forward by Chief of General Staff Lt Gen Mohammad Aziz Khan, himself a Kashmiri and ``fully committed to the Kashmiri freedom cause``, the article quoted the book as saying.

The second author of the latest plan was 10 Corps Commander Lt Gen Mahmood Ahmad and the third Maj Gen Javed Hassan, commander of Pakistani troops in the Northern Areas (Force Command Northern Areas).

Musharraf was ``taken in`` by the enthusiasm of his closest generals and ``became the strongest advocate of the operation,`` it said.

The book said a presentation was then organised for Nawaz Sharif in March, 1999 ``where he granted formal approval of the plan`` and added that ``at the time of Sharif`s meeting with Vajpayee on February 20, 1999, he was not aware of the Kargil operation``.

However, it said that Sharif ``agreed with the plan, though the operation was already in its final stages and he was not aware of that. Probably in his reverie, he was looking at the glory that would come his way when the fruits promised by the operation were harvested``.

It also quoted Sharif`s close associates as saying that the briefing ``never mentioned that regular troops would be involved in the operation and the discussion was framed entirely in terms of increasing the heat in Kashmir``.

` When the operation fizzled out like a wet firecracker, they were a nation left speechless in anger and disbelief. Musharraf and the planners could not give any excuses in public, but privately they let it be known that the blame for the scuttling of a brilliant operation lay on a panic-prone prime minister, who could not stand up to the US president. Nawaz Sharif too could not say anything in his defense publicly, but privately he let it be known that his generals had taken him for a ride, and that he had to bend over backward to get the US president to help Pakistan out of a very sticky situation,`` the Tribune article said.

Re: # 20

aisha_sarvari:

``And frankly, there was no incentive not to follow India`s tests. ``

what about: you keep nukes (just don`t test them) and we (western world) will shower you with economic and military assistance while india will be labelled as an irresponsible country and punished with scientific and trade sanctions.

for a paki definitely it is a not worth it, is it?

---

``And frankly the conventional arms race that India is fueling is quiet unfortunate.``

india can also say the same about china

or afghanistan can also same the same about pakistan.

or pak can pursue it or just shut up.

if indian leadership prefers to spend millions in snow boots while many of its citizens can`t buy a decent pair of chappals doesn`t mean pak should also do the same.

hence, stop being a cry-baby.

---

``I`d like to see more people point out the discrepancy between the race to amass weapons and to talk peace in one breath. ``

let me be the first one:

lets make LoC as an international border and concdeal with our internal problems first. Kashmir, what kashmir???

this is for tahmed:

how many times am i going to explain you about the origins of indian and paki bombs. how many more times before you remember that nawaz didn`t pull out a nuke from his hat within a month of pokhran....how many times????

all those who think that advani was responsible for paks bomb are truly ``genius``. advani has a brige to sell you, one which starts from your backyard connecting directly to allah`s house. he just needs a pre-payment!!

havign a nuke doesn`t mean that there arn`t going to be clashes even leading to nuke flashpoint.

kargil is one reminder. now one will have to factor the use of nukes in future wars. and if it is worth it, it will take place.

all the wars fought between india and pak were stalemates, except 1971. hence pak had a very good defense already since 47.

do you think india will forfeit 6-8% gdp growth to occupy a 140 million hostile territory????

so forget abnout the nukes/external forces and think about the internal problems that can land you as a ``failed state``.

the real problem for pakistan is something else, nukes or no nukes....

its the ``me too`` mentality.

tomorrow if india jumps off the cliff, pakistan would follow suit, without thinking twice even if blairy and bushy persuade it not to do so with all kinds of goodies.

this in paki parlance means ``parity``.

india chopped one of its part, pak is trying to do so

india started developing nukes, pak did it too

india jumped into the IT/BPO bandwagon, pak ``tried`` that too

india inked a deal with u.s. on nuclear cooperation, paky baby wants that lollipop too..

its like a irritating sibling following us everywhere.

the best thing for india is too keep this chote mian at arms length........

Re: # 6 takhmad

continued...


case reopened once upon a time, there was a country between iran and half incinerated india.

‘Almost 59% of Pakistanis are still illiterate’

By Irfan Ghauri

ISLAMABAD: The government’s claims that the Education Sector Reforms Programme (ESRP) has improved the literacy situation in the country have been negated by a report, prepared by the Asian South Pacific Bureau of Adult Education, Daily Times learnt.

In 2001, the government finalised the Education Sector Reforms (ESR) Action Plan 2002-2006 under the ESRP. The plan aimed at increasing the overall literacy rate from 49 percent in 2000-01 to 60 percent by 2005-06; the primary school enrolment rate from 66 to 76 percent; middle school enrolment rate from 47.5 to 55 percent; the secondary school enrolment from 29.5 to 40 percent and higher education enrolment from 2.6 to 5 percent. The report, however, ranks Pakistan last among the 14 developing countries in the Asia Pacific in terms of educational improvement. “Two out of every three Pakistani adults are illiterate; 45.3 percent people have no access to early childhood care and education; 40.3 percent have no access to primary schools and 76.1 percent to secondary school” said the report.

Asian South Pacific Bureau of Adult Education is a network of 200 organizations and individuals involved in formal and non-formal adult education and is partner in the Global Campaign for Education. The report also covers improvements in the education sector in 2005. It shows that 58.9 percent of the Pakistani population is still illiterate. The report said that Pakistan’s primary school teachers are overworked and under- trained as there is only one teacher for 51 students at an average. To substantiate the report, a Education Ministry official said, “We badly missed all targets set under the ESR plan. It is unlikely that we could meet the targets.”

#45 by chaltahai on May 29, 2006 8:53am PT


WHy do you feel the need to establish a parity


It`s the paki way..take the latest silly attempt at manufacturing PhDs to close the PhD gap with India....heard that little attempt at playing catchup isn`t going too well..

Building good educational institutions take a long time..Indian educational institutions weren`t built overnight(just as the system of jihadi madrassahs wasn`t built overnight)...jihad didn`t seep into Paki DNA overnight...

8 years after the nuclear explosions Pakiland is still spending a higher % on its military and a lower percentage on it`s education than India..the results are obvious..Paki investment in their military has paid off..the Paki military is now supreme in Islamabad while Indian educational institutions are renowned worldwide..

Re: # 27: The differnce is US special forces were not invited in by Iraq or Afghanistan. US intelligence, Military ops are already in Pakistan and one other thing. Forthe defenders Pak, i.e. the pak military...whose love for the country is trumped overwhelmingly by their love for wealth...how much do you think it would take to get them to sell out? I am thinking a Use Of Procceds of around $10 B.