Pervez Hoodbhoy May 29, 2006
#33 Posted by HisExcellency on May 29, 2006 7:52:41 am
{{The ongoing widespread insurgency in Baluchistan}}
Why is this ``widespread`` insurgency concentrated in the Marri-Bugti areas only?
Respectfully sir, your article is littered with gross exaggerations that turn molehills into mountains. Let`s look at the bigger picture...
The blame for introducing nukes in South Asia lies at India`s door. Pakistan only started its nuclear progamme after India`s first Pokhran tests in 1974. Since India had violated Pakistan`s sovereignty only 3 years ago, Pakistani security concerns were justified. Yet the Americans threw the spanner in the French nuclear reactor deal. This is how America rewarded its loyal friend.
The greatness of a nation is measured by the challenges it overcomes to achieve its goal. The challenges to Pakistan`s nuclear programme were enormous. We had scant resources and faced stiff resistance from US-Israel-Europe. Yet we built a formidable nuclear program.
This is a great national achievement and must be celebrated. Nations that take pride in their achievements are more likely to repeat success in the future. This is the essence of national confidence. There are important lessons to be learnt from this achievement:
1- If a poor country like Pakistan can overcome enormous challenges to create a formidable nuclear program, then it can also develop a first-rate economy.
2- Despite their differences... the Army, politicians, Mullahs and bureaucracy are capable of working together like a team to achieve national goals e.g. dams, economic development, stable parliamentary democracy
3- Notwithstanding the requisite dissenters, the majority of Pakistanis value their national security and ideology (Islam) more than anything else.
Why is this ``widespread`` insurgency concentrated in the Marri-Bugti areas only?
Respectfully sir, your article is littered with gross exaggerations that turn molehills into mountains. Let`s look at the bigger picture...
The blame for introducing nukes in South Asia lies at India`s door. Pakistan only started its nuclear progamme after India`s first Pokhran tests in 1974. Since India had violated Pakistan`s sovereignty only 3 years ago, Pakistani security concerns were justified. Yet the Americans threw the spanner in the French nuclear reactor deal. This is how America rewarded its loyal friend.
The greatness of a nation is measured by the challenges it overcomes to achieve its goal. The challenges to Pakistan`s nuclear programme were enormous. We had scant resources and faced stiff resistance from US-Israel-Europe. Yet we built a formidable nuclear program.
This is a great national achievement and must be celebrated. Nations that take pride in their achievements are more likely to repeat success in the future. This is the essence of national confidence. There are important lessons to be learnt from this achievement:
1- If a poor country like Pakistan can overcome enormous challenges to create a formidable nuclear program, then it can also develop a first-rate economy.
2- Despite their differences... the Army, politicians, Mullahs and bureaucracy are capable of working together like a team to achieve national goals e.g. dams, economic development, stable parliamentary democracy
3- Notwithstanding the requisite dissenters, the majority of Pakistanis value their national security and ideology (Islam) more than anything else.
#34 Posted by nasah on May 29, 2006 7:56:18 am
``The Kargil episode offers the very first example in history where nuclear weapons, by dint of creating a presumed shield for launching conventional covert operations, were responsible for having brought about a war.
The unrestrained propagation of false beliefs in nuclear security brought India and Pakistan to the brink of a full-blown confrontation that could well have been the very last one. Arguably it was the BJP that, by ordering Pokhran-II, fathered Kargil.`` (Hoodbhoy)
-- a 100% correct asessment -- a Crass Commando turned Demented Dictator vs the Buffoon Bajpayee -- the way that Adhjul Gugree Advani was jumping with glee -- after a few peurile Pokharan Patakhas -- even threatening the Pakistanis with the Nukes on Kashmir -- equally immature Nawaz Sharif had no choice but to explode a few crackers to pour some ice water down on Advani jee`s (now a Jinnah admirer) nucear erection....
...what else can one say bout these Cretins from that Iodine deficient subcontinent....the damn fools.
The unrestrained propagation of false beliefs in nuclear security brought India and Pakistan to the brink of a full-blown confrontation that could well have been the very last one. Arguably it was the BJP that, by ordering Pokhran-II, fathered Kargil.`` (Hoodbhoy)
-- a 100% correct asessment -- a Crass Commando turned Demented Dictator vs the Buffoon Bajpayee -- the way that Adhjul Gugree Advani was jumping with glee -- after a few peurile Pokharan Patakhas -- even threatening the Pakistanis with the Nukes on Kashmir -- equally immature Nawaz Sharif had no choice but to explode a few crackers to pour some ice water down on Advani jee`s (now a Jinnah admirer) nucear erection....
...what else can one say bout these Cretins from that Iodine deficient subcontinent....the damn fools.
#35 Posted by anil on May 29, 2006 8:05:11 am
Re: # 34
Nasah:
I got a real kick out of your description.
Anil
Nasah:
I got a real kick out of your description.
Anil
#36 Posted by bharath on May 29, 2006 8:06:58 am
Re: # 33
The pride is understandable.......but unfortunately it is not based on
reality. If you had developed a genuinely indigenous technological
base, instituitions of your own and then built bombs and missiles
nothing wrong for you to feel proud. Missile technology so far has been
simply repainting NK missiles:-) Also as Dr.Hoodbhoy points out
you have just about NOTHING to show in other ``first-rate`` scientific
fields.
India did misuse the reactor from Canada...but a lot of its
technology is indigenous and it has several other accomplishments
to show off in other fields.
Missiles and the bomb have given you a false sense of equality/
accomplishment. We have nothing to gain if you accept this folly!
The pride is understandable.......but unfortunately it is not based on
reality. If you had developed a genuinely indigenous technological
base, instituitions of your own and then built bombs and missiles
nothing wrong for you to feel proud. Missile technology so far has been
simply repainting NK missiles:-) Also as Dr.Hoodbhoy points out
you have just about NOTHING to show in other ``first-rate`` scientific
fields.
India did misuse the reactor from Canada...but a lot of its
technology is indigenous and it has several other accomplishments
to show off in other fields.
Missiles and the bomb have given you a false sense of equality/
accomplishment. We have nothing to gain if you accept this folly!
#37 Posted by anil on May 29, 2006 8:12:33 am
Re: # 29
Hamidm sahib:
``....pakistan did not come up with a tit to match india`s tat ``
You really wanted Pakistani ``tit``. I thought you would concede Indian ``tit`` is better.
Anil
Hamidm sahib:
``....pakistan did not come up with a tit to match india`s tat ``
You really wanted Pakistani ``tit``. I thought you would concede Indian ``tit`` is better.
Anil
#38 Posted by bharath on May 29, 2006 8:12:55 am
Re: # 34
````some ice water down on Advani jee`s (now a Jinnah admirer) nucear erection.... ``
LOL. Hasan Sahib, very funny........
except you created an imagination in my mind of the Advani`s p44s..........and I had enough for the day and I am leaving Chowk.......
````some ice water down on Advani jee`s (now a Jinnah admirer) nucear erection.... ``
LOL. Hasan Sahib, very funny........
except you created an imagination in my mind of the Advani`s p44s..........and I had enough for the day and I am leaving Chowk.......
#39 Posted by arjun_m on May 29, 2006 8:26:42 am
If anything, it made clear that Pakistan can now never hope for a military victory in Kashmir.
Yup..Pakis will have to swallow the bitter pill and realize that Kashmir will never Banega Pakiland..not the Indian part..
Usually bitter pills can be swallowed with sugar but I hear that`s pretty expensive in Pakiland right now and some of it is from India anyway..
It`s ironic..Pakis swallowing the bitter pill with Indian sugar...
#40 Posted by tahmed32 on May 29, 2006 8:29:03 am
So: All clear headed men (nasah, hamidm, anil, kaalchakra) can agree on the facts. Which basically are, as nasah eloquently put it, equally immature Nawaz Sharif had no choice but to explode a few crackers to pour some ice water down on Advani jee`s (now a Jinnah admirer) nucear erection.... . In other words, only a bigger fool than Nawaz Sharif could have turned India`s overwhelming odds against Pakistan into a nuclear stalemate (and jump with glee in the process)...and Indian politicians were up to that task. And the good professor hoodbhoy will no doubt keep moaning and groaning forever over Pakistan being able to defend itself.
But lets go beyond this now: For that I refer to majumdar #13 where he correctly points out that with India neutralized, Pakistan`s real enemies are now internal to Pakistan. And that is indeed the case. If the good professor hoodbhoy is reading this: Please, Professor Hoodbhoy, be a Goodbhoy and get over this damned bomb and focus your energies on something more relevant today, namely the real issues facing Pakistan today . The real issue is the need to ensure free and fair elections in 2007. There are indeed internal enemies of pakistan - hiding behind beards and behind uniforms - who will come in the way of these elections. So, professor sahib, please focus your energies on these relevant issues, not non-issues like your ranting over the bomb.
But lets go beyond this now: For that I refer to majumdar #13 where he correctly points out that with India neutralized, Pakistan`s real enemies are now internal to Pakistan. And that is indeed the case. If the good professor hoodbhoy is reading this: Please, Professor Hoodbhoy, be a Goodbhoy and get over this damned bomb and focus your energies on something more relevant today, namely the real issues facing Pakistan today . The real issue is the need to ensure free and fair elections in 2007. There are indeed internal enemies of pakistan - hiding behind beards and behind uniforms - who will come in the way of these elections. So, professor sahib, please focus your energies on these relevant issues, not non-issues like your ranting over the bomb.
#41 Posted by arjun_m on May 29, 2006 8:30:17 am
#27 by HisExcellency on May 29, 2006 6:49am PT
Can any country allow foreigners to dictate its domestic politics?
Sure..Pakiland does it all the time..Why else is the USAF repeatedly violating Pakiland`s airspace and bombing and killing Paki civilians on Paki soil..
Can any country allow foreigners to dictate its domestic politics?
Sure..Pakiland does it all the time..Why else is the USAF repeatedly violating Pakiland`s airspace and bombing and killing Paki civilians on Paki soil..
#42 Posted by arjun_m on May 29, 2006 8:35:57 am
zeemax(grand poohbah of south asian geopolitics): I hear the new Paki foreign minister and Karzai are sayign some interesting things about Pakiland...The foreign minister who was put there at Paki behest by the grim looking Abizaid..
I also heard the USAF bombed Paki territory and whacked a bunch of paki citizens again?
Wutz up wit dat? I thought you said Pakiland was the puppet master there..
I also heard the USAF bombed Paki territory and whacked a bunch of paki citizens again?
Wutz up wit dat? I thought you said Pakiland was the puppet master there..
#43 Posted by hamidm2 on May 29, 2006 8:41:13 am
Re: # 40
tahmed,
....exactly ! ........... it is nice that we have the bomb and may they multiply and grow bigger and badder so that the horrible hindoos, with their armpit knives and big pitchforks, do not dare cast an evil eye on the land of the pure and ignorant ....... actually, i believe that everyone should have a bomb - the iranians, the fijians and the papua new guineans ...... yea, that`s it, a chicken in every pot and a bomb in every garage ......... but the real question is: then what ? .......... and that`s what dr hoodbhoy and other clever people should be focused on instead of wringing their hands and crying in their yakhni .......
.......... this nuclear stuff, like the chicken flu, is overated
tahmed,
....exactly ! ........... it is nice that we have the bomb and may they multiply and grow bigger and badder so that the horrible hindoos, with their armpit knives and big pitchforks, do not dare cast an evil eye on the land of the pure and ignorant ....... actually, i believe that everyone should have a bomb - the iranians, the fijians and the papua new guineans ...... yea, that`s it, a chicken in every pot and a bomb in every garage ......... but the real question is: then what ? .......... and that`s what dr hoodbhoy and other clever people should be focused on instead of wringing their hands and crying in their yakhni .......
.......... this nuclear stuff, like the chicken flu, is overated
#44 Posted by arjun_m on May 29, 2006 8:43:53 am
maulana urstruly, if you are lurking, would this behaviour qualify as beghairat..what`re the chances that AQK will have a fatal heart attack in the next 6 months?
Mystery of Pakistan`s cloistered scientist
The large house in a plush district of Pakistan`s capital, Islamabad, that was once his home is now his prison.
Dr Khan has been confined to house arrest since his confession in February 2004 that, as the man who had helped deliver the nuclear bomb to his native Pakistan, he had gone on to transfer nuclear secrets and technology to an array of countries around the world.
Next to the main building sits a guesthouse in which Dr Khan used to entertain his friends and contacts, including many of the Western businessmen who worked closely with him.
Now, the guesthouse is the site of the security detail that monitors Dr Khan`s movements and ensures there is no unauthorised contact between him and the outside world.
One of the few people who had been allowed to visit regularly was his daughter Ayesha.
But for the past five weeks, she has been unable to enter her father`s house.
No other family members are allowed to visit.
Investigation `over`
The BBC has also learnt that other measures have been put in place to tighten security.
These include a gate that has been covered up so that no-one can look into the garden and which ensures that Dr Khan cannot look out.
In recent months, other friends and former associates of Dr Khan have been instructed not to talk to journalists or anyone else about him after previously being allowed to do so.
The timing for the tightening of security is mysterious.
It comes at almost exactly the same moment that Pakistani officials announced their investigation of Dr Khan was over.
They also released the last of his former staff who had been held by authorities for more than two years.
Pakistani officials say they have shared all the information they have with international investigators, including those from the UN nuclear watchdog, the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA).
The matter is closed, Pakistani officials say, hoping that the world may one day slowly forget about the man the government in Islamabad once feted as a national hero.
Iranian question
Meanwhile, the US has been quietly but consistently pressing for greater access to Dr Khan.
The CIA would like to talk to him direct but Pakistan has resisted, saying instead that questions have to be passed through Pakistani intelligence officers who will then return with the answers.
The official line is that Pakistan should be trusted with the investigation and anything else would be a violation of national sovereignty.
But the suspicion has always been that the authorities are resistant to direct questioning for fear that Dr Khan might suggest Pakistani government or military officials knew of his transfers of nuclear technology to North Korea, Iran or Libya.
The US wants to talk to Dr Khan not primarily to answer the question of Pakistani government involvement but rather to see if the scientist could reveal more about his support for Iran`s nuclear programme.
The US particularly wants to know whether Iran is peaceful in intent, as Tehran claims, or geared towards making nuclear weapons, as Washington argues.
In the case of Libya, Dr Khan supplied a nuclear weapons design and investigators wonder whether he could have done the same with Iran.
Confirmation of any such transfer would be highly useful for the US but would also cause embarrassment for President Pervez Musharraf of Pakistan.
But the mystery remains as to why security would be tightened at the house and visits restricted at this time.
Dr Khan himself remains isolated, his health reportedly deteriorating.
Trapped with him are the secrets regarding what exactly he did, why he did it and precisely who helped him.
Mystery of Pakistan`s cloistered scientist
The large house in a plush district of Pakistan`s capital, Islamabad, that was once his home is now his prison.
Dr Khan has been confined to house arrest since his confession in February 2004 that, as the man who had helped deliver the nuclear bomb to his native Pakistan, he had gone on to transfer nuclear secrets and technology to an array of countries around the world.
Next to the main building sits a guesthouse in which Dr Khan used to entertain his friends and contacts, including many of the Western businessmen who worked closely with him.
Now, the guesthouse is the site of the security detail that monitors Dr Khan`s movements and ensures there is no unauthorised contact between him and the outside world.
One of the few people who had been allowed to visit regularly was his daughter Ayesha.
But for the past five weeks, she has been unable to enter her father`s house.
No other family members are allowed to visit.
Investigation `over`
The BBC has also learnt that other measures have been put in place to tighten security.
These include a gate that has been covered up so that no-one can look into the garden and which ensures that Dr Khan cannot look out.
In recent months, other friends and former associates of Dr Khan have been instructed not to talk to journalists or anyone else about him after previously being allowed to do so.
The timing for the tightening of security is mysterious.
It comes at almost exactly the same moment that Pakistani officials announced their investigation of Dr Khan was over.
They also released the last of his former staff who had been held by authorities for more than two years.
Pakistani officials say they have shared all the information they have with international investigators, including those from the UN nuclear watchdog, the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA).
The matter is closed, Pakistani officials say, hoping that the world may one day slowly forget about the man the government in Islamabad once feted as a national hero.
Iranian question
Meanwhile, the US has been quietly but consistently pressing for greater access to Dr Khan.
The CIA would like to talk to him direct but Pakistan has resisted, saying instead that questions have to be passed through Pakistani intelligence officers who will then return with the answers.
The official line is that Pakistan should be trusted with the investigation and anything else would be a violation of national sovereignty.
But the suspicion has always been that the authorities are resistant to direct questioning for fear that Dr Khan might suggest Pakistani government or military officials knew of his transfers of nuclear technology to North Korea, Iran or Libya.
The US wants to talk to Dr Khan not primarily to answer the question of Pakistani government involvement but rather to see if the scientist could reveal more about his support for Iran`s nuclear programme.
The US particularly wants to know whether Iran is peaceful in intent, as Tehran claims, or geared towards making nuclear weapons, as Washington argues.
In the case of Libya, Dr Khan supplied a nuclear weapons design and investigators wonder whether he could have done the same with Iran.
Confirmation of any such transfer would be highly useful for the US but would also cause embarrassment for President Pervez Musharraf of Pakistan.
But the mystery remains as to why security would be tightened at the house and visits restricted at this time.
Dr Khan himself remains isolated, his health reportedly deteriorating.
Trapped with him are the secrets regarding what exactly he did, why he did it and precisely who helped him.
#45 Posted by chaltahai on May 29, 2006 8:53:43 am
Re: # 20: WHy do you feel the need to establish a parity in countries that are so vastly different in size, population, economic fortunes and histories? Hegemoic ecnomic plans? LOL! India controls less than 5% of global trade...where is the hegemony?
When a trillion dollar economy grows at 6+% for 15 years it is a different beast compared to one that looks like volatility trading chart. Look at the percentage of total spending of GDP on planes, tanks and missiles for India vis-a-vis Pakistan. The competition is simply viewed one way...from Pakistan`s side. There is no competition when sitting in Delhi.
When a trillion dollar economy grows at 6+% for 15 years it is a different beast compared to one that looks like volatility trading chart. Look at the percentage of total spending of GDP on planes, tanks and missiles for India vis-a-vis Pakistan. The competition is simply viewed one way...from Pakistan`s side. There is no competition when sitting in Delhi.
#46 Posted by chaltahai on May 29, 2006 9:00:51 am
Re: # 27: The differnce is US special forces were not invited in by Iraq or Afghanistan. US intelligence, Military ops are already in Pakistan and one other thing. Forthe defenders Pak, i.e. the pak military...whose love for the country is trumped overwhelmingly by their love for wealth...how much do you think it would take to get them to sell out? I am thinking a Use Of Procceds of around $10 B.
#47 Posted by arjun_m on May 29, 2006 9:16:05 am
#45 by chaltahai on May 29, 2006 8:53am PT
WHy do you feel the need to establish a parity
It`s the paki way..take the latest silly attempt at manufacturing PhDs to close the PhD gap with India....heard that little attempt at playing catchup isn`t going too well..
Building good educational institutions take a long time..Indian educational institutions weren`t built overnight(just as the system of jihadi madrassahs wasn`t built overnight)...jihad didn`t seep into Paki DNA overnight...
8 years after the nuclear explosions Pakiland is still spending a higher % on its military and a lower percentage on it`s education than India..the results are obvious..Paki investment in their military has paid off..the Paki military is now supreme in Islamabad while Indian educational institutions are renowned worldwide..
WHy do you feel the need to establish a parity
It`s the paki way..take the latest silly attempt at manufacturing PhDs to close the PhD gap with India....heard that little attempt at playing catchup isn`t going too well..
Building good educational institutions take a long time..Indian educational institutions weren`t built overnight(just as the system of jihadi madrassahs wasn`t built overnight)...jihad didn`t seep into Paki DNA overnight...
8 years after the nuclear explosions Pakiland is still spending a higher % on its military and a lower percentage on it`s education than India..the results are obvious..Paki investment in their military has paid off..the Paki military is now supreme in Islamabad while Indian educational institutions are renowned worldwide..
#48 Posted by arjun_m on May 29, 2006 9:18:37 am
‘Almost 59% of Pakistanis are still illiterate’
By Irfan Ghauri
ISLAMABAD: The government’s claims that the Education Sector Reforms Programme (ESRP) has improved the literacy situation in the country have been negated by a report, prepared by the Asian South Pacific Bureau of Adult Education, Daily Times learnt.
In 2001, the government finalised the Education Sector Reforms (ESR) Action Plan 2002-2006 under the ESRP. The plan aimed at increasing the overall literacy rate from 49 percent in 2000-01 to 60 percent by 2005-06; the primary school enrolment rate from 66 to 76 percent; middle school enrolment rate from 47.5 to 55 percent; the secondary school enrolment from 29.5 to 40 percent and higher education enrolment from 2.6 to 5 percent. The report, however, ranks Pakistan last among the 14 developing countries in the Asia Pacific in terms of educational improvement. “Two out of every three Pakistani adults are illiterate; 45.3 percent people have no access to early childhood care and education; 40.3 percent have no access to primary schools and 76.1 percent to secondary school” said the report.
Asian South Pacific Bureau of Adult Education is a network of 200 organizations and individuals involved in formal and non-formal adult education and is partner in the Global Campaign for Education. The report also covers improvements in the education sector in 2005. It shows that 58.9 percent of the Pakistani population is still illiterate. The report said that Pakistan’s primary school teachers are overworked and under- trained as there is only one teacher for 51 students at an average. To substantiate the report, a Education Ministry official said, “We badly missed all targets set under the ESR plan. It is unlikely that we could meet the targets.”
By Irfan Ghauri
ISLAMABAD: The government’s claims that the Education Sector Reforms Programme (ESRP) has improved the literacy situation in the country have been negated by a report, prepared by the Asian South Pacific Bureau of Adult Education, Daily Times learnt.
In 2001, the government finalised the Education Sector Reforms (ESR) Action Plan 2002-2006 under the ESRP. The plan aimed at increasing the overall literacy rate from 49 percent in 2000-01 to 60 percent by 2005-06; the primary school enrolment rate from 66 to 76 percent; middle school enrolment rate from 47.5 to 55 percent; the secondary school enrolment from 29.5 to 40 percent and higher education enrolment from 2.6 to 5 percent. The report, however, ranks Pakistan last among the 14 developing countries in the Asia Pacific in terms of educational improvement. “Two out of every three Pakistani adults are illiterate; 45.3 percent people have no access to early childhood care and education; 40.3 percent have no access to primary schools and 76.1 percent to secondary school” said the report.
Asian South Pacific Bureau of Adult Education is a network of 200 organizations and individuals involved in formal and non-formal adult education and is partner in the Global Campaign for Education. The report also covers improvements in the education sector in 2005. It shows that 58.9 percent of the Pakistani population is still illiterate. The report said that Pakistan’s primary school teachers are overworked and under- trained as there is only one teacher for 51 students at an average. To substantiate the report, a Education Ministry official said, “We badly missed all targets set under the ESR plan. It is unlikely that we could meet the targets.”
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