The Height of Higher Education

Re: # 48
Discoverer: ``Great Philosophers & scientist like Ibn Seena, Al barunim, Al Rumi, Ibn Rashd etc all studied from tradinational schools called Madarasa``

Re:
I do not know what nonsense you are talking about. Instead of referring to outdated, useless, and thousand-year old Madarasa system, producing illiterates of a different type, come to the present-day real world that surrounds you and face its challenges. How many living science workers of science (forget about scientists) happen to come from the Madarsahs existing in the present Pakistan? Stop referring to ``great`` Muslim philosophers and scientists of ancient times, it does not help at all to improve the state of science and education in the present day Pakistan.

The government should encourage the communities to take over the task of offering Islamic studies in neighborhood mosques, which are a plenty. If religion continues to be taught in universities it should through the critical study of all major world religions and ideologies. Pakistan studies should become a part of the study of world history without recourse to jingoism and ‘patriotic excesses’

Well i disagree with your statements, as a matter afact We strongly need Islamic studies along with other universities courses. This is mainlly because Islamic Studies is not only about religion but it is about society as well. Let me put in this way.....

Our educational system is very much similar with the English System. English System emphesis mainly on Evolutionism and not Creationism. ( I am referring mainly toward medical Stream and others like it)

Great Philosophers & scientist like Ibn Seena, Al barunim, Al Rumi, Ibn Rashd etc all studied from tradinational schools called Madarasa. A typical madrasah usually offers two courses of study: a ``hifz`` course; that is memorisation of the Qur`an (the person who commits the entire Qur`an to memory is called a hafiz); and an `alim course leading the candidate to become an accepted scholar in the community. A regular curriculum includes courses in Arabic, Tafsir (Qur`anic interpretation), shari`ah (Islamic law), Hadith (recorded sayings and deeds of Prophet Muhammad), Mantiq (logic), and the Islamic History. Depending on the educational demands, some madrasahs also offer additional advanced courses in Arabic literature, English, and other foreign languages as well as science and world history.

It is sad to see many muslims universities following Western Method of teaching which only emphasis in promoting terror and distinction between individuals. Remember if people are blood then religions are viens.

Feroze sahib,

(What you call as the ``rape of the elite`` does exist and I will not deny it. Intellectuals, whom you have said ``sold out`` did so for a reason and that is they have to live in a real world, where everything costs money and they have to pay for the food on their tables; the shelter over their heads and the clothes on the back of their children. The experience of life in the real world suggests that we must learn to make choices within the limited options available to us and not wish for options, )

You culd not have said it any better. But I am surprised that you needed to say this to Maulana Masadi (RA), who knows thsi anyway. After all, for all the abuse that he pours on USA and its faulty system, he chose voluntarily to migrate from Pak to US- presumably to put food on his family`s plate.

Regards

Even though this hit while going through the last and preceding paragraphs -

- Open source committees like groups should be made which dedicate their expertise for one university / one stream of specialisation which takes up every realm which needs correction.

Of course..more the people more of thought process would be reformed and consolidated.

at the end what remains is implementation. it may be initiated from the student side. The students can finance it populate it with member and coin their ideologies.

#44, actually the vast majority ``accepts`` it because they have adapted to a particular social structure, issues are not clear given the working of institutions, what are presented as issues are mere distractions and quick fix, ``band-aid`` solutions. Enhancing consciousness of the masses, in which the intellectuals, who have the ability to transcend the projected ``matrix`` of the status-quo, would be the difference between any change occurring or not. When the intellectuals think like the masses who are circumscribed by the narrow orbits of their local environments and daily existence is when the status quo is guaranteed long term survival. I cannot accept that default.

re: masadi # 42

Agreed, that the real world is a social construct and I would even add to that, that it is a perception, not the reality, which decides what is and what is not a reality. I do not have agree to with this reality, but I am forced to accept it because I must live within its constructs. It would be futile of me to argue that life is just and everyone gets their fair share, because they do not and life is not just.

Once, I reach this junction where I have to make a choice and decide, whether I will accept this reality or not; I have to make another choice. I have to ask the question that if this is all injust, does the world want to change itself for the better or not? Experience, aleast in Pakistan, would imply that the world is a status-quo society on a societial level and does not wish to change. Common sense, which is a bitter realization, suggests the reason why a small minority is able to hold dominion over the majority is, because of the levels of acceptance that exist between the two groups and if the majority were to rebel; they could have easily ended the problem, which you have associated with the ``elites``.

In this sense, society has adopted a moral default due to its own reasons and whether we agree with it or not; whether C. W. Mills likes it or not, that is constructed reality of the world we live in.

On the other hand, we can seek to change the reality but then again, the nagging question remains - will the rest of the society support us or remain apathetic to our cause for their welfare?

Masasdi, the issues are clear and they have been and they are people, who keep the issues alive, but that is not the problem, is it?

The problem is, whether any one is listening and willing to do anything about it.

Ciao

Monday, June 05, 2006

Islamic education body draft finalised

By Mohammad Imran

ISLAMABAD: The Religious Affairs Ministry has prepared a draft proposal on an Islamic Education Commission (IEC), which will be sent to the president for approval, sources said.

Sources said that Ejazul Haq, the minister for religious affairs, would meet President Pervez Musharraf to get his approval and later meet Ittehad-e-Tanzimat-e-Madaras-e-Dinya (ITMD) representatives to finalise the draft.

According to the draft, the president will nominate the commission’s chairman and the ITMD the deputy chairman, both serving a three-year term. Representatives of five wafaqs representing major sects, the religious affairs secretary, the education secretary, a religious scholar and an education expert would be members of the commission.

The draft also proposes introducing the federal education board curriculum at seminaries. The wafaqs would nominate five people who would represent the ITMD and the religious affairs and education ministries would appoint two scholars.

According to the proposal, the five wafaqs will get the status of education boards and their degrees will be equal to matriculation, FA and BA. “But the ITMD would have to centralise its examination system and the commission’s chairman would be the degree-issuing authority,” sources said, adding that the ITMD would make its recommendations to the chairman.

The examination system and paper checking would be centralised under the ITMD’s own body.

An education expert would be a member of that body and overlook the whole process of paper checking. The commission would also play the role of a facilitating body in addition to issuing degrees to seminary students.

The commission would also be responsible for training of seminary teachers and helping them with their problems. Registration of seminaries would also be centralised at the IEC with the cooperation of the provinces.

The IEC would also provide funds to seminaries but only on the recommendations of the ITMD.

#41 ferozk <<
Masadi sahib, before you blame a person for a lack of morality or for having a moral default, please ask yourself what circumtances forced them into renouncing their sense of morality and having a moral default? It would be an intstructive lesson, I promise you! :) >>>

The ``real world`` that you talk about is a socially constructed ``reality``, there is nothing that suggests or makes it a logical necessity to be so. The moral default of those that can make a difference but choose not to, and I am talking at a social level and not the individual level here, that moral default results in debilitating suffering for hundreds of millions, more than the suffering that those individuals who reap the benefits of that power structure would ever suffer.

So if they keep defaulting and not even doing the minimum, i.e. make the issues clear, developing a public that can eventually do something to alter this ``reality``, then the suffering of the vast majority, who due to the way society is structured are not even offerend the chance to ``sell out to the elite``, will continue unabated. Allowing that suffering is immorality of a much higher level, in my opinion, than asking intellectuals, especially in the US who are not living hand to mouth, to reassess their default.

re: masadi # 39

I do not think that I was disagreeing with you as much as simply stating that the corporate nature of education is a reality and my disagreement with this reality is not going to make it vanish or change it. :)

In the modern world, education is a stepping stone towards earning a livihood and students earn degrees and pay for an education based on how economically marketable those degrees are in the job market. Furthermore, it is the job market which decides what a prospective student will learn and which ``majors`` will be better than others in securing good paying jobs and in a free market educational-economy, there is nothing wrong with this idea. The corporate nature of the education, which you critize, is also the same lassiz-faire education, which explains why the American system of education is so superior to most and why most students make a bee-line for American universities. United States education is responsive to what the market wants, which is why the United States economy has always shown an innate ability to renovate and adapt to changing economic realities.

There is a reason why a graduate of LUMS or FAST or NUST will get a good paying job and not a graduate from a madrassa. There is a reason why a person with a degree in finance or computer sciences from an American university will get a better job than a person who graduated with a degree in Ball Room Dancing from the same university. People pay nearly $ 50,000 a year for an Ivy Leaque education, because they expect the investment to pay off and it is a simple principle of economics, which has and will for the foreseeable future determine the value of education.

What you call as the ``rape of the elite`` does exist and I will not deny it. Intellectuals, whom you have said ``sold out`` did so for a reason and that is they have to live in a real world, where everything costs money and they have to pay for the food on their tables; the shelter over their heads and the clothes on the back of their children. The experience of life in the real world suggests that we must learn to make choices within the limited options available to us and not wish for options, which do not exist and this applies to Pakistani education as well.

In Pakistan, a pay of a teacher with a master`s degree in a government school is Rs. 10,000 and in a private school, it ranges from Rs. 35,000 to Rs. 50,000 depending on the work experience.

The pay of an average domestic driver, is by comparsion, Rs. 6,000.

A teacher will not sell out to the elites, if you provide an adequate financial incentive for him/her but if you do not, it is not the fault of the teacher if some one is willing to pay for his/her intellectual skills. Teachers, who offer private tutions in Pakistan do so to make a living, feed their familes and pay their bills and not because they condone the rapacity of the elites in education, among other fields. The cost of a private tution in Pakistan per student is nearly Rs. 20,000 for a month and for subjects like math and physics and biology, it can be double of this amount, because it is the market which has determined this monetary figure based on a supply of good teachers and the demand of the students, who want a good education. Teachers in Pakistan can be blamed for selling out, but so should the government be blamed for neglecting them and not even financially paying them enough money to live in poverty!

Masadi, you have blamed me for a moral default and you can, but my question is still this: who gave you the right to judge and implement your morals on to a person, about whose situational realities you have no clue? Remember: do not judge others for ye shall not be judged as well! :)

Your morality would suggest that a teacher should strave him/herself and their familes but should not sell out to the elites. I do not agree with such a morality because it is not a morality as much as it is an arrogance worthy of an ubermensch mentality. Morality is an expensive principle in life and not all have the luxury to afford it and those who can, like yourself, should not blame those who cannot not afford it.

Masadi sahib, before you blame a person for a lack of morality or for having a moral default, please ask yourself what circumtances forced them into renouncing their sense of morality and having a moral default? It would be an intstructive lesson, I promise you! :)

Ciao

#36 by masadi on June 3, 2006 9:24pm PT


Fine fine..we`re all ignorant..just answer the simple question..If you were publishing your article in the land of Islam`s holiest shrines, would the title end with a question mark or a period? Would you even dare to question the amazingness of the koran - even in the title- if you were publishing this in saudi arabia?


My comments, unlike yours are not based on whim, I have read several studies on this media, based upon the products that it puts out.


And we should take your word for this why?

face it comrade...you`re in the terminal stages of AIDS(America Is Doomed Syndrome)..you really shouldn`t have engaged in unprotected group mental intercourse with islamists, white liberals and third world leftists whose only claim to fame is a book that won an award even when it wasn`t read by a large number of her countrymen..

#37, I do not see how my conclusion about corporatized education in the US, what CW Mills alluded to as well is different than what you are writing, even though in the US, this fitting-in into the status quo is prefected a lot more whereas in Pakistan it is still a bit feudal, and democratic schools of the kind that Mills mentions have not arisen to make it all encompassing. My disagreement with you is on the moral default, that things can be no different, similar to your default in that war article. In my opinion, moreso than anything else, this rape of the world by the elite, where education has been whored as well, is partly due to the moral default of the intellectuals, who work for these elite as hired hands and easily default to the status quo

#38, I mentioned nothing about Islamiat or Islamic education, neither did I recommend it, nor talk against it, my point was totally different. While condeming an ideologically guided education, we should not look past the harms of corporatized education- that was my simple point.

Re # 32: with all due respect, I believe u are claiming that there is nothing wrong with teaching Islamic studies without taking into account the situation of the ‘teaching’ taking place in Pakistani institutes. The question is not to teach or not teach religion but how proper a teaching of religion is being taking place in Pakistan. the article points out the problems.
Forgive me, I am unable to link the downfalls of usa’s education policy with those of ours.
And I am amazed that you can call the Pakistani ppl a conscious nation.

re: masadi # 36

I will restrict my comments to Pakistani education, as does the article, and I will not comment on American society and its media control over the nature of education.

Education in Pakistan is pursued with the aim of getting a job and not necessarily for the sake of becoming enlightened or better educated. Education in Pakistan is also a business profession, with illegal degrees being sold; with educational institutions of dubious quality hawking knowledge and with teachers, selling their intellect to the highest bidder. Education in Pakistan is not free from any of those ``contraints``, which you have mentioned in regard to the American society.

In today`s economically competive world, education cannot remain outside the needs and requirements of a market economy and educational institutions, in Pakistan and in United States as else where, have to seek financial funding to maintain their standards of education and to offer new courses. Education and the modern day school system was the off-shoot of the Industrial Revolution, when the factory owners decided they needed a disciplined work force, with basic literacy levels, which could operate the machines, follow directions and obey instructions. The function of education, thus, was not to produce brillance but to innoculate obedience in its students and it did so, quite successfully. Hence, your complaints against the corporate nature of the education, not withstanding, the fact remains that modern education is about making a living and not becoming a philosopher-king in the legacy of any Platoian traditions.

In Pakistan, for example, education is the pathway to prospersity and social respect and Pakistani youth see in education a leverage to pry themselves into a better future and they really do not care a whit about how education is compromised; by corporations or government or by media. The society wants an uniform product and in this sense, this society`s requirement is not that different from a religious requirement, which also mandates a ``uniformity of product``.

I have read studies on the issue, too, and even though I may agree with their conclusion, I still believe that their intellectual utopianism and even their honesty is no match for the reality, because in the real world; money matters and Bravo-Sierra takes a long walk off a short pier!

Ciao

#30, #33, that is quite an ignorant point by Arjun. Read #25 again, and try to understand the reality of the corporate media. As far as credential checking is concerned, even based upon ideology, that media more than anything that exists in developing countries has bureaucratized that control, through a series of filters that ensure a uniform product. State control is quite ineffective and blatantly visible, manipulation of the kind practiced by the corporate media, works at a deeper level and is more effective. Somehow you both don`t seem to grasp this. My comments, unlike yours are not based on whim, I have read several studies on this media, based upon the products that it puts out.

This is why Pakiland lags so far behind...It`s the self-deluded mentality with a generous topping of ``If the inferior hindoos can do it surely we pakis can do it better``

It took 40+ years before the investments in the IITs paid off for India(not for America)...

Of course, Pakiland`s 30 year investment in jihadi indoctrination is paying off too..

Musharraf markets Pakistan at Silicon Valley conference

He said that Pakistan was setting up nine high-tech engineering and science and technology universities of international standard with the help of advanced countries that would produce professionals of high calibre to push industrial development on fast-track basis.

Re: # 32
``that has nothing to do with the point I was trying to make``...

EXACTLY Mian Masadi.

In other words in response to the criticism of education in Pakistan, you posted
comments not directly relevant to the discussion here. Why blame kff?


You may have some valid concerns on the state of affairs in American soceity..
the problems described in this article are concerned with problems at a far
deeper, more serious....at basic level...

how are you being helpful by simply parroting out the the bad things in the US?

Re: # 30

Good point!

However, the reality is that before Masadi even get to that stage, he will have to justify his Muslim credentials to those, who will question whether he is even a Muslim or not.

Ciao

#31, you don`t even know what my point is. I suggest you go back and read my posts. I am well aware of how education works in Pakistan, that has nothing to do with the point I was trying to make.

learning about Islam through a course in a univ. is one thing.
taking the compulsory course `Islamiyat` (or `Islamic studies`) in a pakistani univ. (or for that matter in a secondary or higher secondary school) is quite another.
mr. masadi, it seems you are unaware of how things work in the educational institutes in pakistan.
all aspects of teaching: the teachers, the syllabus, the books, are in dire need of reform.

#25 by masadi on June 2, 2006 6:28am PT

comrade masadi..

In America, you would publish and article titled ``Is the Koran amazing or what?``

IN saudi arabia, even an Islamist nut like you would have to go with the title ``The Koran is amazing.``

Technically, it`s only punctuation...a question mark in the first case and a period in the second case..but it says a lot about Islamic tolerance of ideas..

#28 by jamesmaxwell writes <<< Re: # 25
Sir, your arguments are more comical than logical>>>

Very well, have a good laugh and linger on in your pathetic ignorance.

Re: # 25
Sir, your arguments are more comical than logical!

In #25, when I mention former and latter, I refer to manto`s post

<<< Actually Masadi... strict adherence to ideology as in the case of Muslims and the corporate dictates as in the case of America are equally bad for education. >>

By the way, who are the chowk editors these days. I would like to politely find out why 3 of my recently submitted articles have all not been published. Thank you.

#23 jamesmaxwell writes << Try criticising Islam in an Islamic country. If the state does not kill you, the lynch mobs will. >>

Why the state will try to kill someone is because the message he is ``talking about`` is atleast getting out to the people, unlike this system where the corporate elite dominate the media airwaves and alternative voices get almost nowhere. Like talking to a wall, an invisible wall of censorship, where wealth and power determines whose voice gets heard. I can talk to a wall all day and night long in any Muslim country and go about my happy business as well.

#21 manto, education circumscribed by capital is more harmful than any narrow ideology (though both are harmful as I mention in my post) because it tries to cannabalize every aspect of life, turning everything human into an object, unlike religion that cannot possibly reach to those levels. That is why any ``real`` education will benefit the former more than the latter

#18 by jamesmaxwell on June 1, 2006 3:32am PT


Marx`s saying, ``Religion is the opium of the people`` applies very well to Pakistan.


Cult: small unpopular religion
Religion: large popular cult.

nuff said...

Re: # 20
In America you can speak out against the injustices of America`s capitalist system, the greed of America`s corporate managers, the neo-con architects of America`s hypocritical foreign policy, the idiocy of Geroge Bush and whatever else you dislike about America. The US Constitution guarantees your freedom to think and express your opinions.

Try criticising Islam in an Islamic country. If the state does not kill you, the lynch mobs will.

Islam is blind faith in the unknown that does not brook any criticism or questioning. Hence the pathetic state of the Ummah and the Ummahites.

Instead of doing reforms at the university level, the government should focus on the secondary level. Currently there are 5 different school systems running in Pakistan.

1) High School
2) GCE System
3) Urdu Medium; where english is taught from grade 6 onwards
4) English Medium
5) Madrassah System

If you take the example of a public university, where students from all the levels are studying then there will be huge difference between their intellectual levels. The urdu medium students maybe very sharp but due to the inferiority complex he will not be able to groom his abilities and finally causing frustation. I have studied in University of Engineering & Technology, Lahore. It is i think one of the few good institutes left in Pakistan that offer opportunities to students from all over Pakistan be it urban or rural and i have felt and observed this behaviour. It is a pity that we cannot come out of the British school system and develop our own educational curriculum. In the university, i read the same course of Islamic Studies that was taught to me in grade sixth. If you want to teach this Islamic Studies course, then it is better to exclude it altogether.

Actually Masadi... strict adherence to ideology as in the case of Muslims and the corporate dictates as in the case of America are equally bad for education.

The difference is that American Education System does not stop a person to read on his own initiative... therefore one can use libraries freely...

Re #18, Islam does not take away people`s ability to think, your allegation is just BS. People`s ability to think is taken away by corporatized education, the kind we see in the US, where there is absurdity and extremley profitable anarchy in production and consumption, where wars are being justified to the public with little or no opposition and the governemnt gets away with global bloody murder. Pakistan has many problems but its public is much more conscious than the US cheerful morons.

Re: # 4

In an evocative sense, I have not lost hope. In a real sense, I see no value in hope. Personally, I feel that there is still a scintilla of hope left, but the experience of reality which confronts me on a daily basis suggests that hope is for fools. Hope, in Pakistan for Pakistan, is meaningless unless we develop the necessary infrastructures and institutions, which will guard that fragile treasure and protect it. It is time that we stepped beyond clinging to hope and instead, it is time when we should breathe a new life into hope and actualize it into a tangible reality by a committment to this nation.

For the last 60 years, we have wished upon a hope in hope that hope will change our miserable present for a better future, but it did not; because we have to secure the future of this nation on some thing more solid than mere hope. If all the plans, which made in Pakistan for its development are taken into account, then this nation should be more advanced and better off than most of the nations in this world, including the developed one. Bill Milam, the former US ambassador was correct in his farewell address, when he said that Pakistanis ``live in the stars``. We have to come to reality and the reality of our nation is that its problems will not be solved by ``having hope`` but through serious pin-pricking of its flaws and faults.

This nation and its people need to be doused with an ice cold bucket of water in their faces and told to wake up from their dreams and look the reality of their existence in the face. This nation needs to be told over and over again of what is wrong with it and there can be no more luxury in Pakistan to spend our time in hope of a better future and that some how, this magical future will materialize on its own.

This nation will be saved and it might have re-birth, but hope will have nothing to do with it! :)

Ciao

Marx`s saying, ``Religion is the opium of the people`` applies very well to Pakistan. Pakistan`s elite does not want people to think critically and rationally, fearing that they will start asking awkward and difficult questions; give them a big dose of Islam and take away their ability to think.

If by education we mean the ability to think consciously and be socially responsive then people in the developed countries, especially America are the most uneducated of the human race, considering how they are destroying the earth due to ``bureaucratized`` mass consumption and tolerating the militarized economic system of their elite. When modern education becomes a status-quo promoting, fitting-in, enhancing mass consumption tool rather than one that enhances human consciousness, not only is it worthless, it is much more ideological and dangerous than religion.

C.W. Mills who did a lot of work on higher learning institutions in the US, wrote the following, which should be a lesson to those who recommend blind imitation:

``...``...This citizen cannot now see the roots of his own biases and frustrations, nor think clearly about himself, nor for that matter about anything else. He does not see the frustration of idea, of intellect, by the present organization of society, and he is not able to meet the tasks now confronting `the (so called) intelligent citizen.`...Educational institutions have not (made him see) these things and, except in rare instances, they are not doing them. They have become mere elevators of occupational and social ascent, and, on all levels, they have become politically timid. Moreover, in the hands of `professional educators,` many schools have come to operate on an ideology of life adjustment` that encourages happy acceptance of mass ways of life rather than the struggle for individual and public transcendence.

There is not much doubt that modern regressive educators have adapted their notions of educational content and practice to the idea of the mass. They do not effectively proclaim standards of cultural level and intellectual rigor; rather they often deal in the trivia of vocational tricks and `adjustment to life`-meaning the slack life of masses. `Democratic schools` often mean the furtherance of intellectual mediocrity, vocational training, nationalistic loyalties, and little else.`` (C. Wright Mills, The Power Elite (1956)

Politics implies how you are going to live and how you are going to die. It should never be excluded from education. The purpose of education is not to fit into the corporate marketplace as a hired hand. Its purpose should be much higher than that, it should have a ``human`` purpose, and by excluding what is important in human affairs, it can never be of much benefit.

The Education Policy of any country in todays world must :-

1. Develop an spirit of competition.
2. Develop individuals in such a way that they can look at the world around them in
an analytical way.
3. The individual must be told about overall world view and the real position of the
country/society in the world.
4. Real History of the country`s people.
5. Overall it should free the mind and soul for independent and objective thinking and
innovation.

Unnecessary jingoism, nationalism, emotionalism, Religiousty etc. will all put brakes on the independent thinking and should be avoided in the education policy atleast.

#9 by ajeet on May 31, 2006 2:32pm PT
it is from shakepeare`s work but now days it is used in far right anti-immigration party BNP`s leaflets.

Ref#5 [Religion should be taught at the university level by the teachers who have a broad-based education and are well grounded in philosophy (not metaphysics only) and science. And religion should be just another field of knowledge and not the predominant field. ]

Dear Freethinker,

You are anything but free thinker. Why do you keep dragging relegion into the uni? Why the relegion should be taught at the unis at all.

My dear sir I pity your way of thinking.

Ghalib said

Jab ki tujh bin nahi koi mojood
phir ye hangama char-su kaya hai

``Apart from good vocational education there are a range of other innovative educational opportunities that ought to be available, and a few such as the Allama Iqbal Open University and the Virtual University could pay major dividends if the quality of these and other sources, as well as the universities, is kept high and under check.``

Both AIOU and VU are following 70`s broadcasting techniques and totally lacking effectiveness or dynamism in their programs.Wakeup dudes,it`s 21st century.
Allowing myself the freedom of borrowing comedian Omar Sharif`s words to cynically portray the distance education ``Nazrin ye tractor hai,ess ke chaar pahiyyay hotay hain.Dau aagay hotay hain aur dau peechhe hotay hain``.
I once accidentally switched on VU channel.A pathetic looking ``bade mian`` with horrible accent was occupying the screen and talking to some imaginary audience.At first i expected that he should be discussing some grand unification theories or talking of bosons,mesons or dark matter etc. but to my utter surprise he started shedding light on highly ``technical`` subject of C++ programming.Simply horrible and a wastage of a highly effective medium and channel.
IIT Roorkee and Madurai Kamraj university have produced much better programs using single camera and much smaller budgets.
Both the students and faculty members are to be blamed for degrading standards at our campuses.Students are non-serious and totally lacking the intellectual qualities,rigour,passion and interest required for higher learning.Faculty members have other side businesses and consultancies to run besides delivering lectures.This is the reason behind the stagnant state of research at the universities.The world finishes for us after two or three technologies or subjects.Any mediocre European or American university offers much bigger range of subjects than whole of our universities combined.
Honestly speaking Higher education has just become a buzz word of our media and education scene with no one exactly knowing what it actually means or how to manage the humongous task and catch the bull by its horns.Coupled with that is the typical leg pulling and back stabbing institutional politics of the learned, portraying own mice as elephants and calling others achievments mere paper pushing or peanuts.

I have a suggestion:

bury/cremate all the religious books so that for some generations human beings would live without thinking about god but about the miseries surrounding them.

after that no god will be required.

Why even have an education policy? Let the market decide!

{{{Central to the reform of the education policy should be removal of the two subjects – Pakistan studies and Islamic studies -- from the university}}}

Dear author,
The purpose of my comments is not to belittle your country or you. Mr.Feroze Khan has some valid points-you are making some dramatic and unrealistically sweeping proposals .....like the statement above.

Before we contemplate climbing Mt.Everest we should contemplate climbing the nearby mole hills.

Mole Hills:
How about repealing the Hudood ordinances and the dicriminatory laws against Ahmadiyyas?

regards,



p.s
Many of your comments about the need to develop critical thinking skills etc apply to the Indian education system also. Too much is based on rote memorization.

But we don`t have Indian ideology studies, our school text books are bland on partition. ``Muslim league under the leadership of MAJ demanded partition, and muslim majority provinces were constituted to be Pakistan`` ...that`s about it.

Re: # 6

What you have quoted are, I believe, lines from Richard the second a play by William Shakespeare. What is so British Jingoism about it. All countries have in their literature a praise of the country.

#2 by Mantolives

a few points..indian school-books dont ascribe ``religion`` as a reason for pakistan..they are bland and generally dont talk much about it at all. there is no indianiyat study course year after year. so no same-same comparison. indian schooled kids are ignorant of reason for pakistan since the school-books dont talk about it year after year. but then, most school kids are also ignorant of all kinds of history like e.g. chinese or russian. bottomline, focus on the issue, the answers are within your borders..stop looking for a blame across the border as you seem to be doing.

``1. To inculcate Islamic ideology, moral values and preservation of our religious and cultural heritage.

2. To equip the individuals with the latest knowledge and technology.
3. To provide sufficient base of scientific knowledge to every student and to enable him to contribute in nation building efforts.
4. To promote intellectual faculties and develop capabilities of individuals so that they are able to play their role effectively in the society.
5. To produce highly educated and technically skilled manpower in sufficient number as required by the society.
6. To increase access to higher education by providing places and to advance learning and generate knowledge.``(author)


what crazy pathological obsession with Islam the equally crazy Pakistani ``educationists`` have -- they cannot write even one word on general education without bringing Islam into it.

For them there is nothing like a secular and scientific education -- everything is Islam and protecting Islam and protecting Islamic ideology and preserving the moral values -- as if somebody is always stealing their precious Islamic ideology from them -- and removing the preservative from the can of Islamic moral values --

the world in intellectual Pakistan begins with Islam and ends with Islam -- there is physics of Islam, chemistry of Islam, botany of Islam, zoology of Islam -- anthropology of Islam, paleontology of Islam -- Gynecology of Islam, Gastroenterology of Islam, Cardiology of Islam, Cosmology of Islam, Astronomy of Islam, astrology of Islam...

.....Islam like God is in everything.......

it doesn`t occur to their moronic minds that they have been doing the same ‘protectin’ thing and ‘preservin’ things -- round and round in circles -- that is -- ``to inculcate Islamic ideology, moral values and preservation of our religious and cultural heritage`` -- for the past 60 goddam years with just the opposite results -- getting in return -- a rotting stinking secular scientific education -- that is drowning in the sea of illiterate Madrassas ……

but it is still not enough....Mr. Pota still has to do his protecting of Islam...before he will reform the unreformable….

This article could have been a good critique of the dismal and pathetic condition of Pakistani educational systems with 65% illiteracy -- but no -- it has to start with number ONE priority – `` To inculcate Islamic ideology, moral values and preservation of our religious and cultural heritage.``

……and THEN come the secondary high faluting number 2,3,4,5,6. --

realizing little that the biggest stumbling block standing against the realization of numbers 2 to 6 is the goddam NUMBER ONE.........

#3 conti`d

british jingoism the following is from british A level tex book.

``This royal throne of kings, this sceptre`d isle, This earth of majesty, This other Eden, demi-paradise, This fortress built by Nature for herself Against infection and the hand of war,This precious stone set in the silver sea, This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England``

Daudpota`s article is important for its critique of the education policy in Pakistan. The prime objective of this policy should not be ``to inculcate Islamic ideology, moral values and preservation of our religious and cultural heritage.`` Education of religion and religious ideologies should belong ``comparative reigious studies,`` and philosophy. Enforcement of Islamic ideology must not be the objective of the education policy. Inculcation of any kind is not education; it is brainwashing.
One of the reasons why Pakistan has failed to advance in education and research is the undue emphasis on religion and its imposition in every walk of life. Religion should be taught at the university level by the teachers who have a broad-based education and are well grounded in philosophy (not metaphysics only) and science. And religion should be just another field of knowledge and not the predominant field. Education needs to be liberated from the clutches of orthodox religion.
Instruction of religion should not be left to the madrassahs and the mosques. The government should develop a policy to ensure that the Imams at the Jamiah Masjids are the university graduates. Those who do not have a college degree should not be allowed to deliver religious lectures in Jamiah Masjids.
The universities should be completely free (without coercion from the government) in developing their educational plans, the outlines of the various courses for various degrees, and particularly the areas of research in liberal arts, science, and technology. Islamization and Quranization of science should not play any role in education by policy.
The author has emphasized various areas of education but failed to mention philosophy explicitly. It should be taught freely without tethering it to Islamic Philosophy. The western philosphy should form a critical part of education in philosophy. A course on philosophy of science should formally be included in science curricula.
I congratulate Mr. Daudpota for writing a timely and thought provoking article. Similar critical articles should be published in the Pakistani newsmedia.
Mohammad Gill

Re: # 1 The reason you write suggests that you have not lost all hope. There is much wrong with our country but we are far from hopeless. If sufficient number of people can be galvanized into action, things would change, and quite fast! Money is important but there are more important things that can make a big difference and not cost anything. You never know what positive surprises await us. You can be one of them ;-)

the sins of pakistani state are many chief among them is the sorry state of education, as i have said many times on chowk before the first school i went to was an open air, i sat on floor. at age 10 i came to uk what a change i couldn`t believe my luck, in the morning we were given free bottle of milk and free meals for the low incomes, twice a year free trips around uk to places of geographical and historical interest.

BTW even here they had jingoism more later

Excellent article and recommendations.

There is often a confusion when our friends from across the border read these articles. In actual reality, Pakistan Studies mirrors completely and totally Indian nationalist mythology... both ascribe an ideological and religious motive to creation of Pakistani nation state ... whereas bonafide historical works... especially those by the Cambridge School of Historians and those by lawyers like H M Seervai and SK Majumdar show very clearly that it was merely an issue of a breakdown of constitutional negotiations...

The education policy, as stated, will not produce the desired result. Getting rid of subjects or reforming them to make them better is a dead-end in Pakistan. Pakistani students cannot have any critical thinking or reasoning skills as long as they have to ``inculcate Islamic ideology, moral values and preservation of our religious and cultural heritage`` under duress from the state.

Our cultural heritage is 5,000 years old and does not start from 711 AD.

Are we prepared to preserve that truth? I do not think so.

I agree, with the recommendations made by the author, but also hasten to add that these recommendations are wishful, because no government in Pakistan is interested in the quality of education in Pakistan. Our governments like illiterate people, who are prone to excesses of emotion and can be easily swayed. Our governments do not like and neither do they wish to govern a population, which is intelligent enough to ask probing questions and hold its leadership accountable.

The amount set aside for the education in Pakistan`s budget is around 2 percent and now the government is boasting that it will be increased to 4 percent. In real terms, the educational budget needs to be spiked to nearly 30 percent of the total budget and this percentage needs to be sustained, and increased, for the next 25 years without fail. Then, maybe, we will see some improvement in education in Pakistan. Pakistan has to invest in the education of its youth and unless, it does not understand the truism that an educated population is a better security of national interests than all the arms in the world combined, education in Pakistan will never progress beyond lip-service and false promises.

There is no hope for Pakistan, because this nation is incapable of learning from its mistakes. In this nation, we hide and we lie about our past mistakes and we seek scapegoats to blame, but we never accept responsibility. Politics and religion, which should and must be removed from our educational curriculum, will make sure that education in Pakistan remains mired in politics and religion.

This educational policy is a good example of a tale told by an idiot full of promise and hope, but it will amount to nothing in the future, as everything in Pakistan has amounted to nothing in the past.

Ciao